:cloud9: I know this is not standard fare on here, but given what I have found out in the last two weeks, I want to spare anyone on this board from going thru what I have for the last 14 months, 12 of which they had me on prednizone.
I'm not going to go into all the details, but just let me say emphatically, DO NOT TAKE PREDNIZONE for any reason. If any of you are on it already or having problems since taking it and can't quite get a diagnosis for what you're experiencing since then, and you want details of what I have discovered, email me.
This drug is being commonly prescribed for a variety of ailments, and the side effects are far more deadly, disturbing, and long term, than either the pharmacy information flyers or your physician will tell you, and they begin the second you take the drug because it goes into your cells and messes with your DNA. It will literally be God if I survive this, much less come thru this even remotely normal as before. Blessings.....
Id just care to ADD -
Cards been sharing her discoveries with me over these last weeks,as we BOTH SEEM to be suffering from similar ailments , altho our circumstances differ.
SO IF my fellow Mods dont mind, ill make this topic a Sticky :icon_flower:
:icon_flower:
Cardinal... thank you for the warning. I am so, so sorry you are going through this. :sigh: Saying prayers for you...
I have a hard time not getting worked about this kind of thing, (pharmaceutical companies, etc.) so just know that I am standing with you and am praying for you. IF there is anything I can do, help you research, anything... just let me know.
Lots of love to you and I pray God heals you and brings you out of this.
your sis,
sparrow
:cloud9: I know what you mean sparrow; I'M worked up about it. It appears from my limited research, that the pharmaceutical companies decided they could do better than mother nature and created this artificial steroid, because it was CHEAPER. Never mind the literally deadly side effects that occur from even short term use, or the fact it goes into your cell nucleus and messes with your DNA.
My best friend's cousin died from this drug in November of last year. It weakens muscle tissue by turning it into fat; the heart being a muscle, his stopped. I know of someone else whose hip bone literally died, turning to powder and crumbled while she was standing. She collapsed in horrible pain. This drug also kills living bone.
And these are just SOME of the side effects. And the "best" part is, it is apparently addictive in the sense that if you go off of it, it causes the very condition it was given for in the first place, making it extremely difficult to shake off. And continued use of it, eventually causes you to have to take it or DIE. I refused to take anymore of it, just over 3 weeks ago, when I researched and discovered what was REALLY wrong with me. It has been a nightmare for both me and Taff. Thank you for praying. Blessings, Card
:sigh: That is so distressing.
There are so many stories...
so many drugs.... that do so much harm, and they know about it and they don't CARE.
It's just so awful. The whole thing, the whole situation...
ok, I'm sorry. I don't mean to make things worse... :sigh:
It's just so frustrating.
But letting people know, sharing your story and putting it out there is the best thing that people can do.
Cardinal, you probably just saved a LOT of people. Who knows how many people read these forums.
Thank you again for sharing what you did and helping us.
I hope that God heals you both.
You're very precious. We'll continue praying and seeking the face of God for you Cardinal. I have some problems from various steriods given to me. Weight is one. Too late in the day for explaining it now.
Once I got victory over sin in my heart and mind, and that was through hell and back, my body came under attack. For me, I must repeatedly determine that I will be an overcomer. I don't pray to die so often lately. Then I have to ask for forgiveness and seek the Lord for a mind to win. Jesus will give us victory, no matter what our age, if we unwaveringly persist. That isn't always so hard. Sometimes it's just a simple request. "Ask and ye shall receive; for everyone who asketh receiveth."
After days of encountering the mouse and his continued ignoring of the peanut butter on the trap I asked God to make the mouse hungry for peanut butter. That very evening he was mechanically ushered into the next phase of whatever phases must transpire until a mouse is fully realized. I'm not so sure how encouraging it is; but, it just happened.
:cloud9: Thanks guys; please don't forget to lift Taffy up as he has been battling steroid side effects much longer than I. Another lovely side effect? They suppress your immune system, thus opening you up to continual infections. I find this ironic in a way, since double pneumonia last year was what it was originally prescribed to me for, to clear up inflammation in my lungs. So what was helping me, was literally killing me by dragging out the pneumonia for over 6 months.
To illustrate the effects of this on one scale; prior to last year I was on NO meds of any kind, and continually aggravating doctors because they tended not to believe it at my age (52). Now, ala prednizone, I have 12 daily prescription drugs, which I have been discarding one by one as I feel led to. I have had to stand against a variety things I have never had before, and from what I've been reading, there are many more possible diseases to come from this drug. It should, in my opinion, be taken off the market. Many are suffering from it, according to some sites I have found, some worse than me. All because it was CHEAPER; that just galls me.
And reFormer, that was funny about the mouse and the peanut butter. I'm sure he went to mouse heaven :winkgrin: Card
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/12438.html
This looks like a kind of interesting website--
I don't know if it is relevant or not.
:cloud9: Thanks Molly! :HeartThrob:
Card, I "know" that the one you named, predizone, is one of
the really bad ones. I have watched "two" people in my life
swell really bad and then die. It only gives "temporal" help
.......none of the "drugs" really "heal" us, they only cover over
the symptoms for which they are prescribed and most of them
do harm in other ways. I don't know how on earth doctors
can tell which one is doing what. They are not God. It takes
the Spirit to reveal some of them to us. I wish I could get
off all medication, but my blood pressure one sends me into
a real attack in one day. You know what I say? I say: "I bear
the marks in my body, let no man trouble me henceforth." ha
YOU are going to be here til the course is finished. Not all
get to finish that course. Jesus told some "ye shall die in your
sins" which to me means the first realm, but if He has taken
you into the MOST HOLY PLACE, are you not like the woman
that said to her husband, "If He were not pleased with us,
why would he "show" us all this stuff?"
Members in particular..........suffer.........for the sake of the
body of Christ. Paul did.
And your suffering is NOT in vain.
:cloud9: Thanks, RLV; I am in the "swelling really bad" category right now. There were 2 nights last year that I thought I was going to die, so much so I saw my relatives, hugged my beloved grandmother and felt it, even as I was awakening, and I did not have a high fever or was on any drugs that would cause hallucinations. It's all in His hands anyway; I'm only trying to stay for those I would leave behind. Blessings to you, Card
father,release your healing to cardinal.manifest your goodness in your child
Cardinal,
I am at a loss for words. I am so sorry this has happened to you. Thanks for letting us know about this drug. The Dr put me on this same drug last year and I took it a few day but after reading the side effects I stopped because I was afraid of it.
You are in my prayers. Please God, heal Cardinal of this terrible thing that was mostly brought on by the drugs that are suppose to help but can kill. Father you are much more powerful than any drugs, I ask ernestly for the healing of Cardinal. Amen.
CHB
Likewise Sis :cloud9:
Prayers been going Up for quite sometime... :HeartThrob:
:icon_flower:
:cloud9: Thanks....CHB thank God you didn't take it. It is a Pandora's box. Blessings...
So sorry Card and Taffy are suffering so much.
I was over at a friend's apartment and was cooking dinner. This person put on a teflon pan on the stove and turned the heat on high without me noticing it. While I'm stirring a pan I am breathing teflon vapors. I didn't know what the smell was but it got stronger and stronger until the teflon pan was smoking with vapors coming off. I rushed the pan under the water but the whole apartment was filled with the fumes. Anyone here who has birds should know never to cook with teflon near them or the vapors can kill them.
Anyway I got a huge dose of the vapors. I had what the doc called "near sympocy" (sp?) a.k.a. "near passing out." While I'd be walking around the block I would always lose balance and it would seem like I was going to fall on the ground. This went on for over a year.
Then a friend that goes to our church told me about this "green smoothy" that Victoria Boutenko of www.rawfamily.com came up with to heal her family.
To say the least, it worked miracles along with eating 100% raw for one year. I am no longer on 100% raw but eat meat now as well as other cooked vegies. But it cured me 100%.
Maybe this is just what you and Taffy need? God's food heals. No doubt about it!
Quote from: Tony N on February 26, 2009, 02:29:19 AM
So sorry Card and Taffy are suffering so much.
I was over at a friend's apartment and was cooking dinner. This person put on a teflon pan on the stove and turned the heat on high without me noticing it. While I'm stirring a pan I am breathing teflon vapors. I didn't know what the smell was but it got stronger and stronger until the teflon pan was smoking with vapors coming off. I rushed the pan under the water but the whole apartment was filled with the fumes. Anyone here who has birds should know never to cook with teflon near them or the vapors can kill them.
Anyway I got a huge dose of the vapors. I had what the doc called "near sympocy" (sp?) a.k.a. "near passing out." While I'd be walking around the block I would always lose balance and it would seem like I was going to fall on the ground. This went on for over a year.
Then a friend that goes to our church told me about this "green smoothy" that Victoria Boutenko of www.rawfamily.com came up with to heal her family.
To say the least, it worked miracles along with eating 100% raw for one year. I am no longer on 100% raw but eat meat now as well as other cooked vegies. But it cured me 100%.
Maybe this is just what you and Taffy need? God's food heals. No doubt about it!
Thanks T.. :icon_flower:
Im sure Card appreciates your words....but its Kinda more clinincal than that Bro...try a Couple of Miracles for sure....without the need to go into greater details :icon_flower: lest we Join ya Puppy :icon_flower:
:cloud9: Thanks for the reply Tony. Every fast He has ever put me on, was "raw", at His direction, so I know there is something to it, but it wasn't until after the carrots one, I found out why. Cooking kills the enzymes, the life, in the veggies. He told me (when I asked Him if I could nuke a few for variety, after all this turned out to be a 32 day fast) no, because they didn't have the life in them. I had no idea at the time what He meant, as I didn't read that for another year. I just ate them raw. Blessings....
Quote from: Taffy on February 26, 2009, 02:35:44 AM
Quote from: Tony N on February 26, 2009, 02:29:19 AM
So sorry Card and Taffy are suffering so much.
I was over at a friend's apartment and was cooking dinner. This person put on a teflon pan on the stove and turned the heat on high without me noticing it. While I'm stirring a pan I am breathing teflon vapors. I didn't know what the smell was but it got stronger and stronger until the teflon pan was smoking with vapors coming off. I rushed the pan under the water but the whole apartment was filled with the fumes. Anyone here who has birds should know never to cook with teflon near them or the vapors can kill them.
Anyway I got a huge dose of the vapors. I had what the doc called "near sympocy" (sp?) a.k.a. "near passing out." While I'd be walking around the block I would always lose balance and it would seem like I was going to fall on the ground. This went on for over a year.
Then a friend that goes to our church told me about this "green smoothy" that Victoria Boutenko of www.rawfamily.com came up with to heal her family.
To say the least, it worked miracles along with eating 100% raw for one year. I am no longer on 100% raw but eat meat now as well as other cooked vegies. But it cured me 100%.
Maybe this is just what you and Taffy need? God's food heals. No doubt about it!
Thanks T.. :icon_flower:
Im sure Card appreciates your words....but its Kinda more clinincal than that Bro...try a Couple of Miracles for sure....without the need to go into greater details :icon_flower: lest we Join ya Puppy :icon_flower:
I never knew what you and card were going through till I "accidentally" saw this thread. Funny how God works. Yea, I hope you don't go the way of my dog.
My whole life I have hardly taken any meds, just some aspirin and later on Advil for the rare headache. When younger I did take some antibiotic but just a few pills as it was just horrid. But I listen to my body and stop what is hurting it and change. As Michael Jackson sang: You've got to look at the man in the mirror and change your ways.
Taffy, look at the apostle Paul and his relationship to Timothy. Early in Paul's ministry he was healing people left and right. Later on all he could suggest for Timothy's problems was a little wine for his often infirmities. No supernatural healing. And what of Epaphroditus? Paul had to leave him for dead and pray that God would have mercy on him. God did have mercy on him.
I'm not saying God does not heal today but it just isn't as it was in the days of the apostles.
Taffy, however God leads you I know it will be in the right direction. I don't know what is pressing on you but I will be praying for you as you are very special.
God bless!
Tony
:cloud9: Tony, I just skimmed the first page of that link and I will be checking it out in more detail as I feel up to it. Something has always nagged at me, and that is that meat wasn't given to eat until AFTER the flood (the death of all flesh). Blessings....
Praying for you, Cardinal! I hate conventional medicine, as this is the kind of stuff they do. Keep your head held high and remember that we're all praying for you.
Not to get personal or anything, but what sort of care are you recieving now?
Quote from: Cardinal on February 26, 2009, 05:33:13 AM
:cloud9: Tony, I just skimmed the first page of that link and I will be checking it out in more detail as I feel up to it. Something has always nagged at me, and that is that meat wasn't given to eat until AFTER the flood (the death of all flesh). Blessings....
Cardinal, you have a cell factory in your bones. Allow that factory to work again on three shifts, no layoffs and bless the workers with great natural vitamins and minerals and all the other stuff we don't even know about yet, I think you can undo the damage.
The thing about why we do green smoothies is because the blades in the blender break down the cellulose etc. to make the vitamins and minerals more available rather than chewing. People don't always chew their food until it is liquid in their mouths and it is hard to eat raw vegies.
Mrs. Boutenko studied chimps and like them and noticed that they would take a vegetable leaf and wrap it around fruit to make it palatable. So she got the idea of mixing fruit like banana with the greens and it works!
I don't know if a 100% raw diet is particulary good for people after the flood. God must have changed the diet program for some good reason to allow meat. But for clearing up a problem like I had it is great going raw. But while healing it is difficult if you go out to eat with friends and family . . . but . . . I have proven it is not impossible. You just have to be tenacious (which is completely opposite of what I am LOL!) yea, right! :laughing7:
:icon_flower: :laughing7:
ya just got yourself a new name Bud
T.T
:icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on February 26, 2009, 02:45:01 PM
:icon_flower: :laughing7:
ya just got yourself a new name Bud
T.T
:icon_flower:
When I was in high school they used to call me Mr. Intense.
Quote from: Tony N on February 26, 2009, 03:37:37 PM
Quote from: Taffy on February 26, 2009, 02:45:01 PM
:icon_flower: :laughing7:
ya just got yourself a new name Bud
T.T
:icon_flower:
When I was in high school they used to call me Mr. Intense.
wel Tony..you gave me my laugh of the Day..Tis good medicine...Im still Laughing Bud..ROFLMO
OK
Tony Intense Tenacious, But Lets Just go with TT :icon_jokercolor:
Am sorry Card and Taffy to hear about this situation you are dealing with. I join the others who ask prayers for you.
Now that this subject of phramacuticals has been brought up, I would like to mention that there have been a number of drugs over the last 15 to 20 years that have been banned after severe side effects showed up, these drugs were doing more harm than good in many cases, they were promoted as being break through medicine (they always like to say that) and even advertised on Radio and TV commercials, so yes, one needs to be very very careful and watchful with these drugs, even some of the very best trained doctors don't know everything about some of these drugs that there is to know about weather the negative side affects are going to out wiegh the positive benifits or even what side effects there might be with some newer drugs until the drug has been in use for awhile, and sadly sometimes that is after much damage has occured and it is too late.
It is also known that some of these medications have been benificial for many and harmful for a few, or visa versa, helpful for a few and harmful for many depending on ones individual genitics and DNA and since Doctors though well trained can't possibly know ahead to much extent how what drug is going to affect who
in every individual case that is under their care. Big Pharma is a corporate business that is bottom line profit driven and the pros and cons of this business in junction with health care can be to say the least a "catch 22"
Peace,
Fire Walker
Pharmakeia strikes again. No wonder it's one of the words translated "witchcraft" and "sorcery" in the scripture. Sheesh.
I'm glad you guys are talking about this, because more people need to wake up to this stuff.
The pharmaceutical industry is giving us poison and passing it off as cure. And they know it. :thumbdown:
Quote from: Cardinal on February 26, 2009, 05:33:13 AM
:cloud9: Tony, I just skimmed the first page of that link and I will be checking it out in more detail as I feel up to it. Something has always nagged at me, and that is that meat wasn't given to eat until AFTER the flood (the death of all flesh). Blessings....
Hey Cardinal, if we take that spiritual, maybe it means "strong
meat" belongs to them of a full age. I would hope one would
be a full age after the flood in their lives. ha One place in Isa.
it does say "for this is as the waters of Noah to me" and another
place in the new testament "standing in and out of the waters,."
I also wanted to say that I too have that "catch 22" when it comes
to medicine. God! I never thought I'd be taking so much of this
stuff and I can "feel" I am either getting creaky and wobbly or the
medicine is working on me. ha I am grateful tho for the good side
of medicine. I do see the sorcery in it, but w/o faith it is impossible
to please God. Like food, we sanctify it thru prayer. All things are
for our sakes. I don't want to look at the negative toooooooooo
much. When I consider what I have been thru bodily, I KNOW
beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am a miracle. And that God has
done it, the medicine won't even work unless HE does it.
I had a girlfriend whose 14 year old daughter about two weeks ago
developed Guillian Barre disease after the flu shot. Not very many
people "ever" develop such, and you can reap finacial benefits if
it happens to you.
But, on the way to the hospital, her mother "also" saw the white
glory on all the signs on the highway, and was caught up into God
til others in the family were questioning her. God brought the girl
thru and even tho she went to ICU and took some very expensive
MEDICINE to counteract the flu shot, they thought the worst, but
she is home after a week, and will even be returning to school in a
week instead of what the doctors have said.
So sometimes, this sickness is for the glory of God.
All things can work together for the good of those that love the Lord.
Quote from: Redlettervoice on March 06, 2009, 12:02:03 PM
I also wanted to say that I too have that "catch 22" when it comes
to medicine. God! I never thought I'd be taking so much of this
stuff and I can "feel" I am either getting creaky and wobbly or the
medicine is working on me. ha I am grateful tho for the good side
of medicine. I do see the sorcery in it, but w/o faith it is impossible
to please God. Like food, we sanctify it thru prayer. All things are
for our sakes. I don't want to look at the negative toooooooooo
much. When I consider what I have been thru bodily, I KNOW
beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am a miracle. And that God has
done it, the medicine won't even work unless HE does it.
I had a girlfriend whose 14 year old daughter about two weeks ago
developed Guillian Barre disease after the flu shot. Not very many
people "ever" develop such, and you can reap finacial benefits if
it happens to you.
But, on the way to the hospital, her mother "also" saw the white
glory on all the signs on the highway, and was caught up into God
til others in the family were questioning her. God brought the girl
thru and even tho she went to ICU and took some very expensive
MEDICINE to counteract the flu shot, they thought the worst, but
she is home after a week, and will even be returning to school in a
week instead of what the doctors have said.
So sometimes, this sickness is for the glory of God.
All things can work together for the good of those that love the Lord.
You're absolutely right, RLV. There is a balance to these things. And it's certainly true that God can use anything.
Cardinal I'm very sorry about your health issues. With that said, I'm not sure you should be giving out medical advice. I don't mean to offend but for some prednisone (or the many variants of steroids) can be life saving. I do agree that we shouldn't just hand out prednisone like candy. It does have many side effects especially when taking it long term. With that said, in the COPD, asthmatic, MS etc populations it saves lives and enhances quality of life. I would take a more conservative approach with your stance. The possible side effects and the consequences for not taking them should be discussed with each members physician. Then a fully educated team decision can be made. :2c:
Just one more note...there are many drugs that save lives. And most would be considered "trying to do it better than mother nature".
Quote from: shawn on July 29, 2010, 01:55:17 AM
Cardinal I'm very sorry about your health issues. With that said, I'm not sure you should be giving out medical advice. I don't mean to offend but for some prednisone (or the many variants of steroids) can be life saving. I do agree that we shouldn't just hand out prednisone like candy. It does have many side effects especially when taking it long term. With that said, in the COPD, asthmatic, MS etc populations it saves lives and enhances quality of life. I would take a more conservative approach with your stance. The possible side effects and the consequences for not taking them should be discussed with each members physician. Then a fully educated team decision can be made. :2c:
:cloud9: You're absolutely right, I shouldn't be. Should anyone like to know what I found through 2 weeks of studying internet pages including some doctor's journals going back to a WW1 study on natural adrenal drops used on soldiers with the deadly influenza of their day, please PM or email me, and I will be happy to share my resources so you can make an informed decision like I did, that literally saved my life. Blessings....
I'm just curious Cardinal. Do you believe physicians are wringing their hands waiting to give patients evil drugs that will harm them? Do, you not believe the great majority of physicians know the side effects of prednisone? While I know that some physicians are negligent most will gladly go over your research with you. It's hard for the general public to sort through truth and fiction when it comes to things of a medical nature. I can find site after site with incorrect or biased information unsupported by studies. Is that what we are to base our life changing decisions upon? Lets extrapolate this further and go off all our meds that have side effects that we read about on the net.
A patient has a responsibility to themself to be educated about what they take. With that said, you should take that information to your physician for discussion before ever pulling yourself off a drug. What if your post caused someone to stop a life saving dose of prednisone? You do realize some individuals can't breathe without it right? Do realize it can prevent blindness in certain disease processes? Or are we only going to focus on the negative of a medication?
Did you know aspirin even in it's lowest dose form can cause a gastric ulcer than can kill you? You can drink too much water and die as well. Tylenol can cause liver failure and death (recently seen it do so), advil can cause kidney failure and gastric ulcerations, death. I can go on and on but I think you get the picture.
Quote from: shawn on July 30, 2010, 01:00:22 AM
I'm just curious Cardinal. Do you believe physicians are wringing their hands waiting to give patients evil drugs that will harm them? Do, you not believe the great majority of physicians know the side effects of prednisone? While I know that some physicians are negligent most will gladly go over your research with you. It's hard for the general public to sort through truth and fiction when it comes to things of a medical nature. I can find site after site with incorrect or biased information unsupported by studies. Is that what we are to base our life changing decisions upon? Lets extrapolate this further and go off all our meds that have side effects that we read about on the net.
A patient has a responsibility to themself to be educated about what they take. With that said, you should take that information to your physician for discussion before ever pulling yourself off a drug. What if your post caused someone to stop a life saving dose of prednisone? You do realize some individuals can't breathe without it right? Do realize it can prevent blindness in certain disease processes? Or are we only going to focus on the negative of a medication?
Did you know aspirin even in it's lowest dose form can cause a gastric ulcer than can kill you? You can drink too much water and die as well. Tylenol can cause liver failure and death (recently seen it do so), advil can cause kidney failure and gastric ulcerations, death. I can go on and on but I think you get the picture.
Hello Shaun, I'd be interested to know your opinion on the pharmaceutal industry, do you belive that there is corruption and that they use their wealth to control medicine. e.g push drugs that treat symptoms, more than say natural treatments that some studies say cure the problem?
A woman I knew spent the better part of the day in the emergency room 2 weeks ago.
The doctor said she just needed some rest and sent her home.
She died of a heart attack in her husband's arms 3 hours after they got home.
:cloud9: @ Shawn.....Not intentionally, no. I think they are overworked, overbooked, and don't have time to do much more than listen to the pharmaceutical reps that paint a rosy picture for them, who are obviously biased towards the products they sell. Does not most, if not all the information about a drug come from the manufacturer, unless a physician takes time to research it themself?
Do I think they know the side effects? Some of them, yes. Do I think they know there is a natural alternative with no side effects, coupled with some common sense changes that will produce results? No.
I asked all 3 of the doctors that fed me the stuff for 14 months, questions about how it works, what it does, how do they know the adrenals come back up to full function after coming off of it, ect. Not one of them could answer all my questions. I told the last one, that I wanted off of it and insisted that I be dosed down. I went through 6 hard weeks of withdrawal, pain in bones like the worst flu, pain everywhere, inflammation severely back in lungs, difficulty breathing because of it.
Wondered if I was going to die, but since they already told me I was going to die, I figured I had little to lose. By the grace of God He led me to find what my body needed to be healed. I have not taken it since (a year in February), have no inflammation, took over six months to feel even remotely like myself again, without cronic fatigue.
The drug class action lawsuits are an indication of the indifference for a buck, of the Big Pharma, and the ONLY reason prednisone has not recently been the target of a class action, is because it's been on the market too long, and the lawyers don't feel they can win. I know, because I was about to be one of them in that class action, a result of a contact made to me, from me posting on two sites where people are describing the physical damage prednisone has done to them, and/or the death of relatives.
The internet is turning out to be a great tool for gathering people together to compare notes on what they are suffering after taking certain meds, prednisone being one high on that list. On the two sites I posted my story, at that time there were 1400+ people that posted on their trauma from it, and 1100+ on the other site. There would probably be a lot more, except most people probably don't know they exist.
Let me make this clear; I am not blaming the physicians. I am blaming Big Pharma that could care less what they feed people, as long as it makes them millions or billions before the first lawsuit hits the fan. Blessings....
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 30, 2010, 01:50:55 AM
A woman I knew spent the better part of the day in the emergency room 2 weeks ago.
The doctor said she just needed some rest and sent her home.
She died of a heart attack in her husband's arms 3 hours after they got home.
I was never sure what to think about when people mention horror stories to validate giving their own medical advice. Physician's are not perfect. Without examining that patient, having her labs, ekg, etc I can't make a judgement about the physician's care. What I can say is that physicians can't always predict the future. They do not have a crystal ball. Freak things happen all the time in the face of normal studies. In every line of work a certain amount of error is expected and accepted. In the medical field we do not have that luxury because lives are at stake. None of that validates telling others to come off a certain medication without consulting their physician.
I gave no medical advice.
Quote from: thinktank on July 30, 2010, 01:06:55 AM
Quote from: shawn on July 30, 2010, 01:00:22 AM
I'm just curious Cardinal. Do you believe physicians are wringing their hands waiting to give patients evil drugs that will harm them? Do, you not believe the great majority of physicians know the side effects of prednisone? While I know that some physicians are negligent most will gladly go over your research with you. It's hard for the general public to sort through truth and fiction when it comes to things of a medical nature. I can find site after site with incorrect or biased information unsupported by studies. Is that what we are to base our life changing decisions upon? Lets extrapolate this further and go off all our meds that have side effects that we read about on the net.
A patient has a responsibility to themself to be educated about what they take. With that said, you should take that information to your physician for discussion before ever pulling yourself off a drug. What if your post caused someone to stop a life saving dose of prednisone? You do realize some individuals can't breathe without it right? Do realize it can prevent blindness in certain disease processes? Or are we only going to focus on the negative of a medication?
Did you know aspirin even in it's lowest dose form can cause a gastric ulcer than can kill you? You can drink too much water and die as well. Tylenol can cause liver failure and death (recently seen it do so), advil can cause kidney failure and gastric ulcerations, death. I can go on and on but I think you get the picture.
Hello Shaun, I'd be interested to know your opinion on the pharmaceutal industry, do you belive that there is corruption and that they use their wealth to control medicine. e.g push drugs that treat symptoms, more than say natural treatments that some studies say cure the problem?
There is corruption in every industry. That doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. Let me give some information to some of the holistic naturalistic members of this board on a topic. Almost all drugs originate from a "natural" source. The plant foxglove gives us digoxin for instance. It's in the pharm company's best interest to study and seek out these natural treatments then refine them for profit. Saw palmetto? Yep...they already took that one, regulated it, dosed it and concentrated it and turned it into meds for BPH. Do I believe there is a natural cure out there that the pharm companies don't want you to find? No. Because if you find it...they will find a way to make money off of it.
Am I against "natural" drugs and herbs for treatment? You bet I am. Why? For many reasons such as they are not dosed. You often have no idea how much you are getting. Also many people do not check the interactions these treatments have against the meds they are taking. I personally like the idea of the FDA looking over our medications. While you will always see a lawyer on TV trying to get the public to sue a pharm company for a terrible side effect of the drug these side effects only occur in a very small portion of the people taking them. That's the job of the FDA to check and study these things.
But, I'm not a conspiracy theorist either. I don't believe it to be evil to use medications to heal people like some have suggested. If I did, I wouldn't do what I do.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 30, 2010, 06:08:18 AM
I gave no medical advice.
Didn't say you did. I was referring to you supporting Cardinal giving medical advice by giving out a horror story.
Wrong again.
Quote from: Cardinal on July 30, 2010, 02:03:52 AM
:cloud9: @ Shawn.....Not intentionally, no. I think they are overworked, overbooked, and don't have time to do much more than listen to the pharmaceutical reps that paint a rosy picture for them, who are obviously biased towards the products they sell. Does not most, if not all the information about a drug come from the manufacturer, unless a physician takes time to research it themself?
Do I think they know the side effects? Some of them, yes. Do I think they know there is a natural alternative with no side effects, coupled with some common sense changes that will produce results? No.
I asked all 3 of the doctors that fed me the stuff for 14 months, questions about how it works, what it does, how do they know the adrenals come back up to full function after coming off of it, ect. Not one of them could answer all my questions. I told the last one, that I wanted off of it and insisted that I be dosed down. I went through 6 hard weeks of withdrawal, pain in bones like the worst flu, pain everywhere, inflammation severely back in lungs, difficulty breathing because of it.
Wondered if I was going to die, but since they already told me I was going to die, I figured I had little to lose. By the grace of God He led me to find what my body needed to be healed. I have not taken it since (a year in February), have no inflammation, took over six months to feel even remotely like myself again, without cronic fatigue.
The drug class action lawsuits are an indication of the indifference for a buck, of the Big Pharma, and the ONLY reason prednisone has not recently been the target of a class action, is because it's been on the market too long, and the lawyers don't feel they can win. I know, because I was about to be one of them in that class action, a result of a contact made to me, from me posting on two sites where people are describing the physical damage prednisone has done to them, and/or the death of relatives.
The internet is turning out to be a great tool for gathering people together to compare notes on what they are suffering after taking certain meds, prednisone being one high on that list. On the two sites I posted my story, at that time there were 1400+ people that posted on their trauma from it, and 1100+ on the other site. There would probably be a lot more, except most people probably don't know they exist.
Let me make this clear; I am not blaming the physicians. I am blaming Big Pharma that could care less what they feed people, as long as it makes them millions or billions before the first lawsuit hits the fan. Blessings....
I believe most physicians stay current. The amount of medical knowledge we obtain doubles nearly every 7 years. I would be obsolete if I didn't keep up. And no we rarely believe what a pharm rep is telling us. If you watch an infomercial do you believe all the claims? As for natural alternatives with no side effects...I am very curious about these and would love to be educated. I am always willing to learn. I will say that we do overuse meds as a nation. We do not pray, meditate, exercise, talk out our feelings enough. If you believe we should throw meds away and pick up growing our own meds in our garden then more power to you. We can agree to disagree.
Lets talk about prednisone a little bit. I am truly sorry you had a bad experience with it. I really am. I am also sorry you suffered and I don't want to sound insensitive because that is not my intent. I am also glad God healed you, But, I have a question for you...
If prednisone improved/saved the lives of 99 people out of 100 but hurt or killed 1 out of 100 should that med be taken off the market? That is what we are faced with concerning medications of all sorts not just prednisone. I won't argue the fact that prednisone has an extensive and devastating side effect profile. I also won't argue that docs have been known to overuse it and use it in odd ways. But, I can also say that is not the norm. Most of us use it with caution and extreme care. We pick our patient populations, educate them and then make the best decision we can. Does it always work out well for the patient...no. That is a very tough part of the job for me.
I don't want to give the impression that I believe physicians are above reproach. I know the horror stories of negligent physicians. Yes, we are overworked. I worked 72 hours in the last 5 days. I get 2 days off then will do 72 more hours in 5 days. We are human and do make mistakes. It concerns me a great deal about taking care of my spiritual, emotional, and physical health so that I can be at my best for my patients. Has anyone had a poor reaction or side effect from a drug I have prescribed? Absolutely. Do I take side effect profiles of drugs very seriously? Yes. And I don't think I'm alone.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 30, 2010, 06:20:56 AM
Wrong again.
Well then I apologize if I misread why you brought up a possible physician negligence case into this conversation.
I accused no one of negligence. Didn't even occur to me.
Is that the first thing that came to you?
Perhaps her husband has a lawsuit?
This is a thought that came from the Lord. The health care in this country and the world is wonderful and top notch, yet man is a hungry species. The more he finds, the more he gets, the more he believes it is him, the more of what he offers in the guise of help, is only a need for more. These verses caused me to step back and consider today.
Gen 3:5 for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it--your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.'
Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, `Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods?
If that mind set has come upon man, God is not who men of health turn to, they turn to man. Just my :2c:
Quote from: shawn on July 30, 2010, 06:19:05 AM
There is corruption in every industry. That doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. Let me give some information to some of the holistic naturalistic members of this board on a topic. Almost all drugs originate from a "natural" source. The plant foxglove gives us digoxin for instance. It's in the pharm company's best interest to study and seek out these natural treatments then refine them for profit. Saw palmetto? Yep...they already took that one, regulated it, dosed it and concentrated it and turned it into meds for BPH. Do I believe there is a natural cure out there that the pharm companies don't want you to find? No. Because if you find it...they will find a way to make money off of it.
Am I against "natural" drugs and herbs for treatment? You bet I am. Why? For many reasons such as they are not dosed. You often have no idea how much you are getting. Also many people do not check the interactions these treatments have against the meds they are taking. I personally like the idea of the FDA looking over our medications. While you will always see a lawyer on TV trying to get the public to sue a pharm company for a terrible side effect of the drug these side effects only occur in a very small portion of the people taking them. That's the job of the FDA to check and study these things.
But, I'm not a conspiracy theorist either. I don't believe it to be evil to use medications to heal people like some have suggested. If I did, I wouldn't do what I do.
:cloud9: Let me preface my remarks by saying that I have NO PROBLEM with anyone taking an herb, IF the LORD tells you to do it. And He has told me before to take a specific thing. That said....
The "funny" thing is, I am not a "holistic" believer. I have been equally vocal over the years about people using herbs as their ONLY healer, and even more so after He gave me a dream about it. I had a friend and she and her mother had everything known to man in that way and swore by them.
One night, I had a dream, I was sitting at my friend's table with another friend, and she presented our "meal" which consisted of a glass of water with some herbs floating in it, with an air of pride of accomplishment for doing it.
The LORD spoke thru me to her in the dream and said, "How is it you have faith in the thing created, but no faith in the Spirit that created the thing?"
Equally telling, there is a woman who has been doing this stuff for years, what I am about to share, and also she claims she can look in your eyes and see what herbs you need. So: a co-worker convinced my boss to go with her to see this woman. The woman has an herb shop, and she does this "thing" where she has you hold a stick of gum in your hand, and extend your arm out straight from your body.
Then she proves to you how, since the gum's not a natural creation she can easily pull your arm down with you straining for her not to, thereby "proving" that man-made things weaken the body. And then she would have you hold one of her herbs and she couldn't pull your arm down. And it's always worked......
UNTIL the day my boss asked me to go with them. I told them that I would go only to prove to them that it was a form of witchcraft this woman was using. When we arrived, before getting out of the car, I asked the Lord, for His glory, to open their eyes and I prayed and broke the power of witchcraft and told it, it would have no power over me, right in front of them.
I was ridiculed by the co-worker, who decided I was "religious", LOL. However, when the herb lady tried the same parlor trick on me, she pulled and pulled, nearly got a hernia trying to pull my arm down, and it didn't work. She was furious, and clearly flustered. But not half as furious as my co-worker who had already blown $80 on her cures.
As for healing, I believe the Lord uses ALL things including doctors, for His purposes, but specifically we are to seek Him as our healer. I was healed of terminal cancer within one week of diagnosis (I was hemmoraghing), healed of 4 ruptured discs with accompanying partial paralysis, a heart attack, a crushed elbow joint.
Also, a massive concussion from a car wreck that went untreated and undetected for 8 months (they couldn't read the films in the ER, I guess; the neurologist 8 months later, was stunned), and the short term memory loss that accompanied it. I couldn't drive for 3 months because, while I could read the road signs, I couldn't retain anything I read, and so got lost. I couldn't remember where I was, from one minute to the next.
And lately, lung damage from pneumonia that didn't respond to antibiotics, which was the reason for being fed the prednisone in the first place. All of these were documented with tests, "before and after". Literally, I wouldn't be here half a dozen times over, if it were not for the faith He has given me to believe He is a healer today, as well.
So I will rephrase what I said in the earlier post, by adding that anyone taking prednisone should RESEARCH it and it's side effects, which are many, and the natural alternatives, THEN TALK TO THEIR DOCTOR about the potential for getting off the stuff. My :2c: Blessings....
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 30, 2010, 07:27:27 AM
I accused no one of negligence. Didn't even occur to me.
Is that the first thing that came to you?
Perhaps her husband has a lawsuit?
If a physician discharges someone to home and they die of an MI then most people assume negligence. Physicians themselves would take a very close look at that case. Most of the time people with chest pain are admitted for this very reason. But, I'm unsure of her presentation. Sometimes people just don't feel well and don't have chest pain. It's hard to say without the chart.
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 30, 2010, 08:53:53 AM
This is a thought that came from the Lord. The health care in this country and the world is wonderful and top notch, yet man is a hungry species. The more he finds, the more he gets, the more he believes it is him, the more of what he offers in the guise of help, is only a need for more. These verses caused me to step back and consider today.
Gen 3:5 for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it--your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.'
Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, `Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods?
If that mind set has come upon man, God is not who men of health turn to, they turn to man. Just my :2c:
Micah...I have wrestled with things like this in my mind as well. Are we looking to man for healing or are we looking to God? Is there a sort of arrogance as our knowledge grows greater? Is there less reliance on prayer and more on medicine? I'm not sure I know the answer. I can tell you what I believe. I believe God wants us to rely on each other..to need one another. But, above all we need to rely on him and need him. I believe God uses man and his God given knowledge to help heal but ultimately its God's will that is done. I can help no one without his permission. My attempts to heal are in vain if they are out of line with his will and purpose.
I had an uncle who had a heart condition since he was a child. He went down the road of believing he had been healed by God stopped his medication and died shortly there after. What is the lesson in that I ask myself. Is it that we should trust man and not God? Absolutely not. But, it did instill in me that God uses man...he uses other humans in the healing process. That isn't to be underestimated in my opinion.
Thanks.
The coroner did an autopsy.
I don't know why her husband would consent to such barbarism but it's none of my business.
Quote from: Cardinal on July 30, 2010, 10:54:47 AM
Quote from: shawn on July 30, 2010, 06:19:05 AM
There is corruption in every industry. That doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. Let me give some information to some of the holistic naturalistic members of this board on a topic. Almost all drugs originate from a "natural" source. The plant foxglove gives us digoxin for instance. It's in the pharm company's best interest to study and seek out these natural treatments then refine them for profit. Saw palmetto? Yep...they already took that one, regulated it, dosed it and concentrated it and turned it into meds for BPH. Do I believe there is a natural cure out there that the pharm companies don't want you to find? No. Because if you find it...they will find a way to make money off of it.
Am I against "natural" drugs and herbs for treatment? You bet I am. Why? For many reasons such as they are not dosed. You often have no idea how much you are getting. Also many people do not check the interactions these treatments have against the meds they are taking. I personally like the idea of the FDA looking over our medications. While you will always see a lawyer on TV trying to get the public to sue a pharm company for a terrible side effect of the drug these side effects only occur in a very small portion of the people taking them. That's the job of the FDA to check and study these things.
But, I'm not a conspiracy theorist either. I don't believe it to be evil to use medications to heal people like some have suggested. If I did, I wouldn't do what I do.
:cloud9: Let me preface my remarks by saying that I have NO PROBLEM with anyone taking an herb, IF the LORD tells you to do it. And He has told me before to take a specific thing. That said....
The "funny" thing is, I am not a "holistic" believer. I have been equally vocal over the years about people using herbs as their ONLY healer, and even more so after He gave me a dream about it. I had a friend and she and her mother had everything known to man in that way and swore by them.
One night, I had a dream, I was sitting at my friend's table with another friend, and she presented our "meal" which consisted of a glass of water with some herbs floating in it, with an air of pride of accomplishment for doing it.
The LORD spoke thru me to her in the dream and said, "How is it you have faith in the thing created, but no faith in the Spirit that created the thing?"
Equally telling, there is a woman who has been doing this stuff for years, what I am about to share, and also she claims she can look in your eyes and see what herbs you need. So: a co-worker convinced my boss to go with her to see this woman. The woman has an herb shop, and she does this "thing" where she has you hold a stick of gum in your hand, and extend your arm out straight from your body.
Then she proves to you how, since the gum's not a natural creation she can easily pull your arm down with you straining for her not to, thereby "proving" that man-made things weaken the body. And then she would have you hold one of her herbs and she couldn't pull your arm down. And it's always worked......
UNTIL the day my boss asked me to go with them. I told them that I would go only to prove to them that it was a form of witchcraft this woman was using. When we arrived, before getting out of the car, I asked the Lord, for His glory, to open their eyes and I prayed and broke the power of witchcraft and told it, it would have no power over me, right in front of them.
I was ridiculed by the co-worker, who decided I was "religious", LOL. However, when the herb lady tried the same parlor trick on me, she pulled and pulled, nearly got a hernia trying to pull my arm down, and it didn't work. She was furious, and clearly flustered. But not half as furious as my co-worker who had already blown $80 on her cures.
As for healing, I believe the Lord uses ALL things including doctors, for His purposes, but specifically we are to seek Him as our healer. I was healed of terminal cancer within one week of diagnosis (I was hemmoraghing), healed of 4 ruptured discs with accompanying partial paralysis, a heart attack, a crushed elbow joint.
Also, a massive concussion from a car wreck that went untreated and undetected for 8 months (they couldn't read the films in the ER, I guess; the neurologist 8 months later, was stunned), and the short term memory loss that accompanied it. I couldn't drive for 3 months because, while I could read the road signs, I couldn't retain anything I read, and so got lost. I couldn't remember where I was, from one minute to the next.
And lately, lung damage from pneumonia that didn't respond to antibiotics, which was the reason for being fed the prednisone in the first place. All of these were documented with tests, "before and after". Literally, I wouldn't be here half a dozen times over, if it were not for the faith He has given me to believe He is a healer today, as well.
So I will rephrase what I said in the earlier post, by adding that anyone taking prednisone should RESEARCH it and it's side effects, which are many, and the natural alternatives, THEN TALK TO THEIR DOCTOR about the potential for getting off the stuff. My :2c: Blessings....
Well said. And the Lord has done a miracle of healing in your life. I can say that the Lord has humbled me many times in this field. Working in the ER I have lost people I thought should make it...and people who I felt had no chance pulled through. I am convinced he is in control of all.
I also want to apologize. I have had these conversations with individuals before. When I have a debate about anything I ask myself why am I debating the subject. I try to always look at my motivations. I wanted to think I was trying to help the "public" with my post. But, unfortunately I still have ugliness in me and I think pride and offense played a more prominent role in my motivation than anything else. For that I apologize and ask for forgiveness from both you and God.
Equally telling, there is a woman who has been doing this stuff for years, what I am about to share, and also she claims she can look in your eyes and see what herbs you need. So: a co-worker convinced my boss to go with her to see this woman. The woman has an herb shop, and she does this "thing" where she has you hold a stick of gum in your hand, and extend your arm out straight from your body.
Then she proves to you how, since the gum's not a natural creation she can easily pull your arm down with you straining for her not to, thereby "proving" that man-made things weaken the body. And then she would have you hold one of her herbs and she couldn't pull your arm down. And it's always worked......
UNTIL the day my boss asked me to go with them. I told them that I would go only to prove to them that it was a form of witchcraft this woman was using. When we arrived, before getting out of the car, I asked the Lord, for His glory, to open their eyes and I prayed and broke the power of witchcraft and told it, it would have no power over me, right in front of them.
I was ridiculed by the co-worker, who decided I was "religious", LOL. However, when the herb lady tried the same parlor trick on me, she pulled and pulled, nearly got a hernia trying to pull my arm down, and it didn't work. She was furious, and clearly flustered. But not half as furious as my co-worker who had already blown $80 on her cures
Cardinal
Cool story, lol the co-worker mocked but ended up shocked. This reminds me of the bibilical stories.
Well said. And the Lord has done a miracle of healing in your life. I can say that the Lord has humbled me many times in this field. Working in the ER I have lost people I thought should make it...and people who I felt had no chance pulled through. I am convinced he is in control of all.
I also want to apologize. I have had these conversations with individuals before. When I have a debate about anything I ask myself why am I debating the subject. I try to always look at my motivations. I wanted to think I was trying to help the "public" with my post. But, unfortunately I still have ugliness in me and I think pride and offense played a more prominent role in my motivation than anything else. For that I apologize and ask for forgiveness from both you and God.
72 hour working week, a spirit of grace and humbleness
You sure your a doctor?
Quote from: shawn on July 30, 2010, 06:20:30 PM
Well said. And the Lord has done a miracle of healing in your life. I can say that the Lord has humbled me many times in this field. Working in the ER I have lost people I thought should make it...and people who I felt had no chance pulled through. I am convinced he is in control of all.
I also want to apologize. I have had these conversations with individuals before. When I have a debate about anything I ask myself why am I debating the subject. I try to always look at my motivations. I wanted to think I was trying to help the "public" with my post. But, unfortunately I still have ugliness in me and I think pride and offense played a more prominent role in my motivation than anything else. For that I apologize and ask for forgiveness from both you and God.
:cloud9: Yes He is in control......not a problem bro.....I understand why what I said would be an affront. For my part, I felt I was helping the public also, by trying to prevent them from going through the hell I did from prednisone. So I think you brought needed balance, as I was pretty fired up myself over it all when I wrote that, and really wasn't thinking about the other issues involved. So thank you for that, God (and you) forgive me for not thinking it through more. :thumbsup:
I also wanted to comment on what you said about people thinking God healed them and He didn't. The Lord showed me the difference, and it's something that needs to be said. Some churches teach healing is for today, and it is, but they think that all you need do is "stand on the Word" and proclaim yourself healed and act accordingly and God will move. He can do whatever He wants, and while there MAY be times He has reacted to that overlooking their lack of wisdom, that is not the Word He wants us to stand on.
The speaking gifts are necessary for the body, for with the baptism in the Spirit, with the speaking, comes spiritual hearing. Man shall not live (or have His life) by bread (letter) alone, but by every word (God-breathed) from the mouth of God.
He speaks a word to us personally about our healing, and THAT is the WORD/breath we are to stand on, in faith. God is a Spirit and what comes out of His mouth is Spirit. The Word that is letter, is to build our faith up to be able to receive more.
All the healings I experienced, save the first one, the ruptured discs/back injury, came this way. I think the only reason the first one didn't, is because He had mercy on me as I was newly saved, and I didn't understand the principle yet. Blessings....
Quote from: thinktank on July 30, 2010, 08:52:30 PM
Well said. And the Lord has done a miracle of healing in your life. I can say that the Lord has humbled me many times in this field. Working in the ER I have lost people I thought should make it...and people who I felt had no chance pulled through. I am convinced he is in control of all.
I also want to apologize. I have had these conversations with individuals before. When I have a debate about anything I ask myself why am I debating the subject. I try to always look at my motivations. I wanted to think I was trying to help the "public" with my post. But, unfortunately I still have ugliness in me and I think pride and offense played a more prominent role in my motivation than anything else. For that I apologize and ask for forgiveness from both you and God.
72 hour working week, a spirit of grace and humbleness
You sure your a doctor?
lol...yes and I'm blessed to be able to care for the sick. I'm not sure about a spirit of grace a humility but God is certainly working on me. I still have my moments. :bigGrin:
You cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater concerning a drug. It has proved hazardous for you, and many others. It has made others freer in their movements and the way they live. I would use caution when telling others what medications to take or not to. I have 3 autoimmune disorders. On very rare occasions, I've been treated with prednisone, and done just fine. Please, all of you, ask your own questions of your doctors, do your own research concerning your illnesses.
Very small doses of natural hormones, in this case HYDROCORTIZONE, can be effective without the dangerous side-effects of prednisone. It seems not all doctors keep abreast of the latest information. Like I know something that stops shingles. It is injectible hydrogen peroxide. Maybe 3 shots will do it. I learned about it from some Jamaican friends. A nurse friend went to someone who would administer it. She was surprised it worked. She had to pay $75 a shot. Insurance won't pay for it. It is not on U. S. doctors' formulary. Something like less than 5 % of those who get shingles become afflicted with permanent severe and disabling pain. Do doctors know about it? Should these people and institutions be held liable (or sued) for rejecting a known cure? That results in such suffering? Just remember...it is an antiviral that cures smallpox.
Quote from: reFORMer on January 23, 2011, 06:33:30 AM
Very small doses of natural hormones, in this case HYDROCORTIZONE, can be effective without the dangerous side-effects of prednisone. It seems not all doctors have keep abreast of the latest information. Like I know something that stops shingles. It is injectible hydrogen peroxide. Maybe 3 shots will do it. I learned about it from some Jamaican friends. A nurse friend went to someone who would administer it. She was surprised it worked. She had to pay $75 a shot. Insurance won't pay for it. It is not on U. S. doctors' formulary. Something like less than 5 % of those who get shingles become afflicted with permanent severe and disabling pain. Do doctors know about it? Should these people and institutions be held liable (or sued) for rejecting a known cure? That results in such suffering? Just remember...it is an antiviral that cures smallpox.
There are reasons physicians and nonphysicians are held liable for practicing medicine outside the standards of care. Many have "theories" and have developed "cures" and promote these with pseudoscience, and poor research. This coupled with some stories of "I know someone who got better" shows a population bias which can be as dangerous as the poor studies. There are always conspiracy theories about the FDA, and there will always be a market for questionable medicinal alternatives.
I think each person should know the risks and rewards of such treatments and make educated adult decisions for themselves. I have an article about hydrogen peroxide, the guy who promoted it's use in questionable medical practices, and some conclusions through medical research about these treatments.
http://www.sram.org/1101/charlesfarr.html (http://www.sram.org/1101/charlesfarr.html)
Here is the summary of the article
In summary, the evidence that IV H2O2 is a safe and effective therapy—for any disease—is lacking. There is no growing body of support from basic science, animal studies, or human studies. Specifically, there would need to be systematic animal studies showing real promise, followed by Phase I, II and III human trials to establish safety and efficacy of IV H2O2 for at least one indication. Instead there have been a few conflicting preliminary reports, without independent confirmation of the very few that appeared favorable.
Farr's opinions cannot be considered authoritative. His panacea claims for IV H2O2 are implausible and typical of medical quackery. He never published his purported findings in a peer-reviewed journal. He used his endorsement of this and other dubious treatments in an entrepreneurial fashion. His own state medical board disciplined him for substandard practice, and the FDA disciplined him for presiding over a bogus IRB.
Prudence dictates that informed, scientifically trained practitioners view IV H2O2 skeptically. Extracellular H2O2 in blood is rapidly broken down to oxygen and water by the enzyme catalase, which results in the formation of dangerous bubbles. Any intact H2O2 that comes into contact with a cell is not likely to enter the cell in an orderly fashion, but rather to damage the cell membrane because the molecule vigorously reacts with lipids. Thus it is unlikely that H2O2 given intravenously would have any significant intracellular role, which is where it would need to be in order to fulfill Farr's claims. Rather, it would result in the formation of oxygen bubbles in the bloodstream and in the destruction of cells, exactly as have been reported. 3–7
Farr claimed that his regimen was safe because the H2O2 was sufficiently diluted. But even with a regimen that reportedly "had followed [the] 'well-established' protocols" of Farr's organization, the IOMA, a woman died in 2004 shortly after a single infusion; the coroner subsequently reported that her death had been due to hemolytic crisis and gas emboli.7 Thus Farr's claim of safety cannot be accepted as reliable.
In conclusion, the information that "oxidative medicine" practitioners rely upon as the basis for their prescribing intravenous hydrogen peroxide is wholly inadequate to justify such treatment.
I think it was administered IM for shingles...
Quote from: reFORMer on January 23, 2011, 08:19:46 AM
I think it was administered IM for shingles...
Take my advice for what it's worth but I have seen some really bad information about hydrogen peroxide on the net. This site here says it's as safe as water to humans.
http://encognitive.com/node/2548 (http://encognitive.com/node/2548)
This is some .gov info on hydrogen peroxide.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts174.pdf (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts174.pdf)
Most of it's toxicity revolve around ingestion. But, there are a couple concerns I would have about it's properties...one is can be caustic to tissues. Two is it's affinity for forming airbubbles which can have all sorts of catastrophic effects on a living organism.
I would be leary of IV, SQ, or IM ingestions of any material without proper studies to confirm it's efficacy and safety. Is there a reason someone would prefer H2O2 over typical antiviral treatments?
This is slightly off topic, but it is on my mind, what do you think of flu injections?
Quote from: thinktank on January 23, 2011, 08:45:08 PM
This is slightly off topic, but it is on my mind, what do you think of flu injections?
My family and I get them every year. As with everything, you must weigh risk vs reward. There is always a small risk of an adverse reaction to the injection. But, I believe there is greater risk for sickness than there is for an adverse reaction. While they must guess about which viruses will show up in any given year they tend to be fairly good at predicting the problem viruses.
And of note, flu tends to be most dangerous to children and the elderly. But, with the emergence of H1N1 all bets are off. We have had several deaths in our area from H1N1 and I believe all of them were between the ages of 20-40.
The doctors wanted to give Card prednisone again. She adamantly refused.
So they snuck it into her.
It's killing her AGAIN.
I. am. WILD.
They are dosing her down off of it now.
Keep praying please.
Quote from: lomarah on March 04, 2013, 10:45:22 PM
The doctors wanted to give Card prednisone again. She adamantly refused.
So they snuck it into her.
It's killing her AGAIN.
I. am. WILD.
They are dosing her down off of it now.
Keep praying please.
If a patient of sound mind refuses a medication it is legally battery to give it to them anyway. A physician can lose his license for such an act. He can actually go to prison for it as well.
Well that's what I thought Shawn. I am just so wild right now... it's probably a good thing I don't live near there.
I'm so glad this popped up today. I go to a chiropractor who uses muscle testing to find out which vertebrae are out. When the muscle tests weak he puts vertebra back on and I get nearly immediates relief from pain. Are you saying he is practicing witchcraft?
Chiropractic, like homeopathy, is backed up by vast amounts of research, but MD's and their handmaidens the DO's, will never admit it.
Colleen redhotmagma is a chiropractor and I would trust him with my life. Maybe you could ask him about some stuff (unless he's already pm'ed you :) ). He's a chiropractor that walks with the Lord so I'm sure he'd know all the ins and outs and legit practices and any that would be "off".
Thanks lomorah. I knew someone had mentioned being a chiropractor on here and was hoping I would come up.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 05, 2013, 06:44:38 AM
Chiropractic, like homeopathy, is backed up by vast amounts of research, but MD's and their handmaidens the DO's, will never admit it.
As a "handmaiden", I wonder why you believe that. Osteopaths also manipulate, and believe in manipulation as supported by studies which show manipulation produces the same results with less meds.
Quote from: shawn on March 11, 2013, 05:36:52 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 05, 2013, 06:44:38 AM
Chiropractic, like homeopathy, is backed up by vast amounts of research, but MD's and their handmaidens the DO's, will never admit it.
As a "handmaiden", I wonder why you believe that. Osteopaths also manipulate, and believe in manipulation as supported by studies which show manipulation produces the same results with less meds.
Well, I didn't mean to offend you, but I worked in an Osteopathic teaching hospital for ten years, and got a feel for the "old school" vs the "new school" if you will, which IMO, had moved closer to the ways of Allopathy. I may be wrong in that opinion. I even had Osteopathic-style manipulation shown to me by a DO student, and if I need an adjustment, I'll go to a Chiropractor, and a neck-only one if I can find one.
Until the 90's D.O.'s rarely did any manipulation, and were for all intents and purposes M.D.'s. But with all the research coming in on manipulations benefits many D.O. schools started focusing on it more. Michigan State was the only school in the country (from what I understand) that taught any significant manipulation prior to that.
I'm not sure when the "takeover" took place by the AMA, but it was in the first part of the 20th century, before that DO's and DC's were almost identical. Many DO's still did manipulation into the 50's and 60's, and did allopathic medicine. By the 60's the AMA renewed its full force attempt to wipe out all competition, and most DO's stopped doing it, or none of the new coming out of school learned it.
DC's won an antitrust lawsuit against the AMA in the 90's called Wilks vs. AMA. Went to the Supreme Court.
btw I have no ill will towards doctors, especially you Shawn :HeartThrob: The AMA, well thats another story
Quote from: redhotmagma on March 11, 2013, 01:12:14 PM
Until the 90's D.O.'s rarely did any manipulation, and were for all intents and purposes M.D.'s. But with all the research coming in on manipulations benefits many D.O. schools started focusing on it more. Michigan State was the only school in the country (from what I understand) that taught any significant manipulation prior to that.
I'm not sure when the "takeover" took place by the AMA, but it was in the first part of the 20th century, before that DO's and DC's were almost identical. Many DO's still did manipulation into the 50's and 60's, and did allopathic medicine. By the 60's the AMA renewed its full force attempt to wipe out all competition, and most DO's stopped doing it, or none of the new coming out of school learned it.
DC's won an antitrust lawsuit against the AMA in the 90's called Wilks vs. AMA. Went to the Supreme Court.
btw I have no ill will towards doctors, especially you Shawn :HeartThrob: The AMA, well thats another story
Osteopathy did hit a rough road, when it fell under persecution by the allopath community. But, I went to Pikeville, which was a new osteopathic school very invested in teaching manipulation. Most osteopaths do not use it. With that said, many believe in its use. And there are several from nearly every class that devote their practices to it.
And brother, no offense taken. I am just curious where people get their opinions on such matters.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 11, 2013, 12:01:36 PM
Quote from: shawn on March 11, 2013, 05:36:52 AM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on March 05, 2013, 06:44:38 AM
Chiropractic, like homeopathy, is backed up by vast amounts of research, but MD's and their handmaidens the DO's, will never admit it.
As a "handmaiden", I wonder why you believe that. Osteopaths also manipulate, and believe in manipulation as supported by studies which show manipulation produces the same results with less meds.
Well, I didn't mean to offend you, but I worked in an Osteopathic teaching hospital for ten years, and got a feel for the "old school" vs the "new school" if you will, which IMO, had moved closer to the ways of Allopathy. I may be wrong in that opinion. I even had Osteopathic-style manipulation shown to me by a DO student, and if I need an adjustment, I'll go to a Chiropractor, and a neck-only one if I can find one.
Again, no offense. I have heard it all when it comes to physicians. Some of it fairly warranted.
Shawn I didn't know you were an osteopath, I like you even more now :laughing7:
Yes more and more are doing it solely, which is great. I'd like to learn some of the osteopathic techniques, some are quite different than ours.
Great thread, imo.
I have never been prescribed prednizone. Thank God, I've rarely had breathing difficulties of any kind except a brief time when my nose got stuffed up for almost a year and it was not my lungs as I could breathe through my mouth fine, but I am not naturally a mouth breather especially at night so it was rough. But I'm fine now, unless I get a cold.
But my oldest sister was a preemie and my parents both smoked in the home as did relatives. She experienced many many bouts of difficult breathing until in her 20's the doctor told her husband he had to move her to a warmer, direr climate or he wouldn't guarantee she'd live another year. He moved her to Arizona but she still got sick. In her 40's, with people bringing their trees and plants from the east she developed asthma, as well as fibromyalgia. she coughed and coughed all day and night. She got so sick and ended up in the hospital and she expected to die she was so weak and in so much pain. The prednizone got her breathing again. She would have to take it for a week or so every time she got really bad. She complained of weight gain and being so hungry while on it. But she was heavy to begin with. Fortunately she didn't have to be on it continuously. The doctor only would prescribe it until her lungs were clear which usually took about a week. She still takes it now and then when she gets really bad, she turns 75 this year. She takes massive amounts of ibuprofin for the fibromyalgia and has blood tests to test her liver which have always tested normal, which surprises me. She tried a few times to whittle down the amount but the pain comes roaring back when she tries.
She has problems with her back periodically which could be from muscles losing tension, but her age also. I don't know. The times they gave her the pred. she was barely able to breathe so it's difficult to argue then and for her it has been a godsend. It's like Shawn said, some medicines are good for some, horrible for others. I definitely would have a long talk with the doctor before taking it IF I were in a position to do so. If I were gasping for breath and they had tried other options to no avail, I would probably take the prednizone. I have another friend, around my age 63, who has asthma and allergies and also is put on it periodically. She says it does not cause hunger and greatly enhances her breathing. But again, she only takes one prescription dose which doesn't last more than a few weeks, I think, maybe longer.
We take a risk with everything. I remember when many people died taking aspirin that had been tampered with in the manufacturing process. More stringent procedures were implemented, which, naturally raised the price of products. People die from produce that has been contaminated. We risk our lives when we drive to the corner store, or when we go swimming. Anything. I agree we should, when possible, question possible side affects of every drug we are told to take and weigh the pros and cons.
I'm fortunate at 63 not to be on any daily meds. I do have a recurring condition that I take meds for when it flares up and my blood pressure isn't always as low as it should be, but until it is consistently higher than 125 I am stubbornly refusing to go on medication, lol. The bottom number is normally below 70.
I never smoked and I could wish cigarettes and all types of products would dissappear off the planet. I think it's one of the worst offenders against our health as it affects anyone who's been around it, even if they don't directly smoke. I'm surprised I don't and didn't have problems with the amount of blue haze that consistently invaded our house and car when I was younger.
Our diets are also bad. I know AI don't eat enough green vegetable. I will try at times, but I can't seem to make it mandatory. I don't enjoy preparing meals, even salads. I need to change that. I have almost eradicated potato chips and the like from my diet but I still indulge in french fried mroe than I should. I have started doing some aerobic exercise again. It takes work to get into the habit but you feel sooo much better when you can walk a least a mile or so and not feel tired and I do a video that takes about an hour, with warm up, cool down and stretching. My joints don't like the jumping but I can do good wit the low/no impact routines. Also heredity plays a part and God, I velieve, has assigned us a number of days.
I do pray for Card, that God gives her grace and restores her to health.
Looks like no one has mentioned Dr. Mercola in this thread.
Here are lots of articles he wrote about Prednisone: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amercola.com+prednisone (https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amercola.com+prednisone). He recommends high natural fat, low carb diet, midday sunshine without sunscreen for vitamin D, and other good nutrition and toxicity prevention.
He recommends against all vaccines, I believe. (Someone asked about getting flu vaccines. Studies show that those are worthless too and are dangerous.) Author Neil Z. Miller said no vaccines have ever been scientifically proven to be safe or effective. Drug companies tend to go through the motions of testing things, but their motivation is obviously mainly profit, not health, so their testing is often useless. Mercola has lots of articles about that too.
Hello Cardinal,
Yes, prednizone is a very dangerous drug. But, all drugs are not only dangerous, they were condemned in the Bible back in the time of Christ.
Most Christians have little knowledge of what constitutes good health. Read my article on this subject here:
http://ernestlmartin.com/index4.htm#vegetarianism (http://ernestlmartin.com/index4.htm#vegetarianism)
Also, here:
http://ernestlmartin.com/index4.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/index4.htm)
Thanks for bringing this subject up.
Ken
:cloud9: What I found initially after 2 weeks of study online, was a study from WW1 US doctors who did a study on the soldiers that had the influenza that killed millions. When they autopsied the men that died, they found that their adrenal glands had atrophied.
Looked up what prednisone does and it shuts down the adrenal glands, and if you stay on it long enough, they will atrophy. You need your adrenal glands to live. They produce a natural STEROID. What I found out in several articles, was that the adrenal function is compromised and weakened from several factors, such as fatigue, stress, caffeine use, sugar, long term infections. All of these things were factors in what ended up in me being put on prednisone.
So what the GI doctors found out was that, when they gave a test group natural adrenal extracts taken from bovine (cow) adrenal glands, the test group DIDN'T DIE. Cow DNA is very close to human, so apparently it was good enough to supplement.
So what I found was a company that manufactures the adrenal drops in New Zealand. They only sell to osteopaths, so I found a natural supplement company that apparently has an osteopath on staff, and THEY sold the same company's product.
I told my doctor to take me off the prednisone (after 14 months-I waited too long to research, that part is MY fault), and he initially refused saying I would die. I said you already told me I'm dying in 3-4 months, so if so, then I'll die the way I choose. He dosed me down and I immediately started the drops. I was unsure of dose amount, and read a conversation online between a doctor and patient and he recommended 6 drops sublingual twice a day for severe cases of adrenal fatigue.
Since I didn't know how much, I cut it to 3 drops twice a day. The first 2 days off prednisone were rough; I literally didn't know if I would survive. The inflammation increase in my lungs was immediate, although all the infection from pneumonia was gone a year before. This is why I finally decided to research, much too late. I couldn't understand why I went from no meds, healthy as a horse at age 52, to a death sentence with no real diagnosis of why, a few months later.
Pneumonia was gone, so why do I still have to take this stuff, and why am I not better, not knowing the drug was creating the very problem I was trying to shake off! Every time they would try to take me off of it, I would get worse immediately, so they'd put me back on it. OF COURSE, I got worse. My own adrenal glands were so compromised by the drug shutting them down, I was lucky they revived at all and were not atrophied already.
When this started, I had never been on any medication in my life. When they got done dosing me with massive amounts of the stuff, I was on 18 overnight, nearly. One by one, as I recovered from pneumonia, I started to simply not take them. I finally, after months, told my doctor I had not taken x,y,z in months and was fine, except could not shake off the prednisone.
The drug companies are slick. This drug creates it's own dependency, thereby making them millions. You have to have adrenal function to live, it shuts yours down and "replaces" it, and your glands don't resume working immediately after going off of it.
I asked my doctor just how long did it take for my own adrenal function to begin, and how did they know for a fact it would? He looked thoughtful, paused for a few and said, "I really don't know the answer to that question, I'd have to research it."
Therein lies the problem. Doctors are busy people, and even the best ones are trying to see as many patients as possible, which puts them at risk for believing everything every pharma rep comes peddling, because after all, didn't our FDA approve it for them to have it to sell in the first place?
And now, as the class action lawyers found out, it has been out there for so many years, that despite the growing numbers of people who are having severe problems with it and are literally dying from the effects of it and don't realize it, there is no chance of bringing justice to the peddlers of it. And yes, it's IMO........
So I survived the 14 months of it, the drops started working and within THREE DAYS I could breathe normally and the inflammation was gone. Second time they snuck it in on me, it threw my heart into AFIB. God healed it in 3 days. Then another go round with it, and I'm waiting on that healing. Did I mention prednisone weakens muscle tissue? That's why people on it long term usually die. My friend's cousin was only 41 and he was on it for 2 years. It damaged his heart, just like it did mine, and he died. Blessings....
Quote from: Ken on May 02, 2013, 04:25:22 AM
Hello Cardinal,
But, all drugs are not only dangerous, they were condemned in the Bible back in the time of Christ.
Ken
Are you suggesting taking prescribed drugs in today's medical enviornment is sin?
Sorry, Card and Taffy. Prayers being sent your way.
I so wish that doctors who practice more natural cures and remedies could be paid under our health insurances.
:Pray:
D.
:cloud9: Thank you dandelion......unfortunately our beloved Taffy died about 2 years ago from a rare blood disease. He is greatly missed. :HeartThrob: