God, satan and the naked man.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My faith is not dependent on whether or not the Shroud is real or not. It's like the handkerchief the disciples had; it's just a visible point of contact for them to focus their faith on, if they are weak in the faith. His appearing in the crucified form was the same principle.

It is interesting, though. I personally think it might be real, for this reason, if no other. It's like a cylindrical stamp made as they had clay cylinders that were stamped.

The HG is the seal of God, which is why He sits upon His right hand, like a ring of authority the kings used to make purchases in their stead, and so when the HG came back into that lifeless body, it would have "stamped" it, because His job is to form us into His image. My  :2c:

[Molly]

it's just a visible point of contact for them to focus their faith on, if they are weak in the faith

Ah, I finally understand that scripture --blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe [Jn20:29].

They are blessed because their belief [not having seen] is proof of the strength of their faith.

[Beloved Servant]

This shroud is not taken to heal the sick or drive out demons, no, it simply is an idol an altar of Baal.

[thinktank]

Because?

Because faith is believing in things unseen.
If the shroud is real there is no reason for faith, for you now how visible evidence.

Although I see your point, it is not entirely scriptural. The scriptures shows that many believed on Jesus based on their witness of his miracles, seen and heard.

[Beloved Servant]

Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed?   
                                                                                             Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

[Beloved Servant]

Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed?   <— That's not faith.
                                                                                             Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."   <— This is.

[WhiteWings]

So,knowing things as fact isn't as good as believing they might be true?

[Molly]

Newsflash! :icon_flower:



Italian study claims Turin Shroud is Christ's authentic burial robe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8966422/Italian-study-claims-Turin-Shroud-is-Christs-authentic-burial-robe.html

They concluded that the iconic image of the bearded man must therefore have been created by "some form of electromagnetic energy (such as a flash of light at short wavelength)."

..."could only be produced with the aid of ultraviolet lasers..."

[jabcat]

Newsflash! :icon_flower:



Italian study claims Turin Shroud is Christ's authentic burial robe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8966422/Italian-study-claims-Turin-Shroud-is-Christs-authentic-burial-robe.html

They concluded that the iconic image of the bearded man must therefore have been created by "some form of electromagnetic energy (such as a flash of light at short wavelength)."

..."could only be produced with the aid of ultraviolet lasers..."

Looked at some of the new info, Molly.  I think the shroud stuff is definitely interesting, But even with all my doubts and failings, even if they said it was fake or that nothing like that was ever possible, (like you and others) I still know that my Redeemer lives!

In Him we live and move and have our being.  Amen.

[Beloved Servant]

So,knowing things as fact isn't as good as believing they might be true?

Apparently not.
Read what Jesus said in the post immediately above yours and argue with Jesus about it.

[Beloved Servant]

Newsflash! :icon_flower:



Italian study claims Turin Shroud is Christ's authentic burial robe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8966422/Italian-study-claims-Turin-Shroud-is-Christs-authentic-burial-robe.html

They concluded that the iconic image of the bearded man must therefore have been created by "some form of electromagnetic energy (such as a flash of light at short wavelength)."

..."could only be produced with the aid of ultraviolet lasers..."

Bologna.

[WhiteWings]

So,knowing things as fact isn't as good as believing they might be true?

Apparently not.
Read what Jesus said in the post immediately above yours and argue with Jesus about it.

I did read what Jesus said.
My conclusion is that you take the verse out of context. It has zero Biblical support.

[Beloved Servant]

He did not call those that saw Him blessed.
It is those who did not see, He calls blessed.

[WhiteWings]

So it's better for man (mankind) to never meet God but only believe in God?
Jesus was not blessed because He knew God before earth was created?

[Beloved Servant]

Many had met Jesus in that day and not believed.
Blessed be the Name of The Lord.

[Molly]

One thing that interests me about the shroud is that technology can't keep up with it.

You couldn't really see the image clearly before the invention of photography.   Then you could only see it in the negative.

It has 3-d holographic information so with modern technology you can now see it in 3-d.

These Italian scientists have now experimentally replicated a mark using a laser but their lasers are not yet advanced enough to create this image.

All of which leads me to believe that this is meant for the end times and the last harvesting before the end of the age.  :2c:

Like Beloved Servant says, it's for those of little faith [which describes Peter at one time].

It might be God's way of getting people's attention.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EbgIM-djlM

[thinktank]

He did not call those that saw Him blessed.
It is those who did not see, He calls blessed.

Yes, but nevertheless

John 14:11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Psalm 78:32
For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.

Both views are scriptural.

[Beloved Servant]

He did not call those that saw Him blessed.
It is those who did not see, He calls blessed.

Yes, but nevertheless

John 14:11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Psalm 78:32
For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.

Both views are scriptural.

For but yesterday you stated it was unscriptural — then yet today it is!

[thinktank]

He did not call those that saw Him blessed.
It is those who did not see, He calls blessed.

Yes, but nevertheless

John 14:11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Psalm 78:32
For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works.

Both views are scriptural.

For but yesterday you stated it was unscriptural — then yet today it is!

I said, not 'entirely scriptural' as in, not the whole story. I read from your posts that the shrouds are of no value, I simply stated that there is scriptural support for seeing the works of God. I think that this shroud, if real, does qualify as a work of God and therefore can be useful for those who need to see miracles of God.

[Beloved Servant]

The shroud of Turin is as real as
the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.
And just as much an abomination.