Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
What exactly does the above verse mean?
If taken literally then it means God manipulates our memory.
Somehow I feel that's against the nature of God.
It would also makes us forget what Jesus has done for us because He's part of 'the former'
It can also mean those in heaven won't remember those in hell (tears wiped away)
As I wrote I don't believe God works that way but still the verse states we will forget.
Your views please...
It's been ages since I've posted here, although I do stop in now and then and read some of the threads. Your question piqued my interest. And I looked the verse up in some other translations. Most do use the word remembered. Two that don't (and there may be more...I didn't look at all the ones at studylight)
"Pay close attention now: I'm creating new heavens and a new earth. All the earlier troubles, chaos, and pain are things of the past, to be forgotten. Message
For, behold me! Creating new heavens, and a new earth, - And the former shall not be mentioned, neither shall they come up on the heart, Rotherhams
I've heard it preached from the pulpit of the United Methodist Church I attend...that God, in his mercy, eliminates all memories of loved ones and friends who do not make it to heaven...so as not to spoil the fun of those who do. It takes about five seconds to come up with a bunch of reasons why this does not make sense. I don't think God lobotomizes anyone. To me, I think this simply means what Rotherham's expresses....and the former shall not be mentioned. All the struggles will be a distant memory. It will be a new earth. Sort of how Paul assures us that the present struggles will not compare with the glory to be revealed...hardly worth mentioning.....
Cindi.....
Mercy Not Sacrifice (http://htttp://mercynotsacrifice.blogspot.com)
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 04, 2008, 07:22:51 PM
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former heavens and earth shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. God's already done this once. Tell me about the world before Noah's Flood from your own family's memories rather than relying on someone's opinion in science, archaeology, etc. You can speculate, but apart from a very clear revelation from the Lord about it, or a Time Machine, you're faced with either an old earth or a young earth perspective to choose between and which scientists in either perspective to believe, or which scientists from both perspectives to believe certain parts of what they have to say to form your own conclusions based on the better evidences from both camps, though drawing your own conclusions about what they mean about the age of the earth, what man looked like, etc. Water preserves things through fossilization through sedimentation and in other ways with the occasional prehistoric animal found in a giant glacier. But if the present sky and earth become all volcanic, as I've been saying for a few days that I'm more inclined to believe is what the Scriptures are telling us is going to happen, then good luck on preserving anything from this present world when everything goes molten. But Christ Jesus would be on New Earth and we'd be there with our memories of our relationship with the Lord, although like Jesus said when a woman's having a baby, she's in horrible torments, but when the baby has been delivered, then she forgets about all of the pain that got her to that point of having her baby in her arms. We're able to remember having gone through things, but although we can remember having hurt when certain things happened, the actual pain itself is something that to certain degrees and regarding various things we're able to forget pretty easily by God's mercy so that the memory of a broken leg can be painful, it's still not the kind of agony you were in when it happened. We do forget degrees of pain and suffering to a certain extent, either more grateful that we're no longer going through that, or more focused on bitterness about the injustice.
Quote from: martincisneros on December 05, 2008, 01:09:47 AM
Tell me about the world before Noah's Flood from your own family's memories rather than relying on someone's opinion in science, archaeology, etc.
I have no memories about that. I have no memories about 6 billion other people either.
But will Noah remember after he is resurected?
Will I remember the tiny bit of history I was part of?
Will I remember the what happend with many Jews in WW2? Are they part of "the former that has passed away"?
If I understand the rest of your post then I will remember but no longer feel sad about the fate of those people.
Is that what you mean?
QuoteBut if the present sky and earth become all volcanic, as I've been saying for a few days that I'm more inclined to believe is what the Scriptures are telling us is going to happen,
I figured that out a few weeks ago. But I have (often) a hard time telling it's spiritual or something that really gonna happen. :laughing7:
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 04, 2008, 07:22:51 PM
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
What exactly does the above verse mean?
If taken literally then it means God manipulates our memory.
Somehow I feel that's against the nature of God.
It would also makes us forget what Jesus has done for us because He's part of 'the former'
It can also mean those in heaven won't remember those in hell (tears wiped away)
As I wrote I don't believe God works that way but still the verse states we will forget.
Your views please...
yo WW...
The Mind\Heart is the soul which is ENMITY, as explained earlier today...Christ having Abolished the Enmity , and the the OLD C before it.
soooooooooooooooooooooooooo
IN the new..bearing in Mind this is Prophesy AFTER the SPIRIT, first the natural THEN the spirtual...Comparing Spiritual with spiritual...yeah I know Im record..but hear it enough..who KNOWS?
your mind and Heat , heavens and EARTH are renewed In the NEW c, WHAT nO LONGER cOMES to MIND, is the OLDC....YOUR RENEWED BUD.
the Mind of those in the OLD has BEEN shaken, meaning its FALLEN,,,having been replaced with The New...which Paul says...DO NOT BE SHAKEN....
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
coul;dnt be more simple egh? :icon_flower:
good words Taff , ol matey :icon_flower:
I forget to explain me self so many , many times , thinking everyone already knows and I am wrong of course :sigh:
Quote from: rosered on December 05, 2008, 02:12:22 AM
good words Taff , ol matey :icon_flower:
I forget to explain me self so many , many times , thinking everyone already knows and I am wrong of course :sigh:
No sis...For mine, you understand More than ANYONE ive had the pleasure of Knowing, what May Be milk to you, surely isnt for the Likes Of me...
Love ya sis
Taffy :icon_flower:
The only way that I can not be shaken . . .is after I've already been shaken.
Hebrews 12
25-27So don't turn a deaf ear to these gracious words. If those who ignored earthly warnings didn't get away with it, what will happen to us if we turn our backs on heavenly warnings? His voice that time shook the earth to its foundations; this time—he's told us this quite plainly—he'll also rock the heavens: "One last shaking, from top to bottom, stem to stern." The phrase "one last shaking" means a thorough housecleaning, getting rid of all the historical and religious junk so that the unshakable essentials stand clear and uncluttered. (Message Translation)
Now, in the process of digging around for this passage . . .I found a most interesting passage leading into this one . .that was dealing with the New Jerusalem . . .another thread I think . .but how many on this forum read just one thread? They're like potato chips . .once you eat one . . .the bag is on your thighs! So, for those of you who were reading the other thread about the New Jerusalem . . enjoy.
18-21Unlike your ancestors, you didn't come to Mount Sinai—all that volcanic blaze and earthshaking rumble—to hear God speak. The earsplitting words and soul-shaking message terrified them and they begged him to stop. When they heard the words—"If an animal touches the Mountain, it's as good as dead"—they were afraid to move. Even Moses was terrified.
22-24No, that's not your experience at all. You've come to Mount Zion, the city where the living God resides. The invisible Jerusalem is populated by throngs of festive angels and Christian citizens. It is the city where God is Judge, with judgments that make us just. You've come to Jesus, who presents us with a new covenant, a fresh charter from God. He is the Mediator of this covenant. The murder of Jesus, unlike Abel's—a homicide that cried out for vengeance—became a proclamation of grace.
:thumbsup:
time to ROCK me bro :icon_flower:
This Scripture gives me more reason to embrace UR. I cannot imagine rejoicing in heaven if one of my children or spouse, or mother or father were unsaved and burning forever in Hell.
Because eventually all will be saved and we will all celebrate before the King of Kings I can easily see how the old things of the carnal mind will not be remembered or come to mind.
Quote from: Texas Son on December 06, 2008, 05:35:00 AM
This Scripture gives me more reason to embrace UR. I cannot imagine rejoicing in heaven if one of my children or spouse, or mother or father were unsaved and burning forever in Hell.
Because eventually all will be saved and we will all celebrate before the King of Kings I can easily see how the old things of the carnal mind will not be remembered or come to mind.
When EVERYTHING has been made right with EACH person in EACH issue of their lives, EACH injustice that they've felt has gone unresolved by God and their fellow man, and EACH detail of EVERY disappointment has been addressed, then what's there to remember about the old order?? When EACH relationship has been resolved since EACH relationship would have to be resolved in a context where no former loves are ever eternally lost in a never ending Hell or by being snuffed out, but would all have to be faced as fellow citizens on a new world. And when I spoke of former loves, I don't mean primarily romantic loves, although those would be included as fellow citizens of a world that seems a little distant right now because of our perspectives that we each have to weather in this life of something that's probably closer than any of us realize. When no former pain is unresolved and no misunderstanding is unresolved, then, again, what's there to remember of a former world??
But your only two choices on that passage of Scripture are the incomparably lobotomizing Dr Frankenstein or a Father that's just that good and has dealt with every single issue that you could ever think of, imagine, experience, etc.
Quote from: martincisneros on December 06, 2008, 05:54:19 AM
Quote from: Texas Son on December 06, 2008, 05:35:00 AM
This Scripture gives me more reason to embrace UR. I cannot imagine rejoicing in heaven if one of my children or spouse, or mother or father were unsaved and burning forever in Hell.
Because eventually all will be saved and we will all celebrate before the King of Kings I can easily see how the old things of the carnal mind will not be remembered or come to mind.
When EVERYTHING has been made right with EACH person in EACH issue of their lives, EACH injustice that they've felt has gone unresolved by God and their fellow man, and EACH detail of EVERY disappointment has been addressed, then what's there to remember about the old order?? When EACH relationship has been resolved since EACH relationship would have to be resolved in a context where no former loves are ever eternally lost in a never ending Hell or by being snuffed out, but would all have to be faced as fellow citizens on a new world. And when I spoke of former loves, I don't mean primarily romantic loves, although those would be included as fellow citizens of a world that seems a little distant right now because of our perspectives that we each have to weather in this life of something that's probably closer than any of us realize. When no former pain is unresolved and no misunderstanding is unresolved, then, again, what's there to remember of a former world??
AMEN!! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Cindi on December 05, 2008, 12:32:12 AM
I've heard it preached from the pulpit of the United Methodist Church I attend...that God, in his mercy, eliminates all memories of loved ones and friends who do not make it to heaven...so as not to spoil the fun of those who do.
Me and my daughter had a lively discussion once with ETers about this. My (genius) Daughter brought up that when a father and his two son's meet in heaven and there's no momma around (oooops) they're going to
figure it out! :laughing7:
Plus, what if a Hindu in the heart of a India who does not know any Christians, sees Benny Hinn on TV, responds to the salvation message and soon dies. All they will remember in 'heaven' is their dog, their chickens and Benny Hinn. The response on the forum was "Well, they will remember their dog and chickens" :thumbsup:
Quote from: Cindi on December 05, 2008, 12:32:12 AM
It's been ages since I've posted here, although I do stop in now and then and read some of the threads. Your question piqued my interest. And I looked the verse up in some other translations. Most do use the word remembered. Two that don't (and there may be more...I didn't look at all the ones at studylight)
"Pay close attention now: I'm creating new heavens and a new earth. All the earlier troubles, chaos, and pain are things of the past, to be forgotten. Message
For, behold me! Creating new heavens, and a new earth, - And the former shall not be mentioned, neither shall they come up on the heart, Rotherhams
I've heard it preached from the pulpit of the United Methodist Church I attend...that God, in his mercy, eliminates all memories of loved ones and friends who do not make it to heaven...so as not to spoil the fun of those who do. It takes about five seconds to come up with a bunch of reasons why this does not make sense. I don't think God lobotomizes anyone. To me, I think this simply means what Rotherham's expresses....and the former shall not be mentioned. All the struggles will be a distant memory. It will be a new earth. Sort of how Paul assures us that the present struggles will not compare with the glory to be revealed...hardly worth mentioning.....
Cindi.....
Mercy Not Sacrifice (http://htttp://mercynotsacrifice.blogspot.com)
wow that was beautifully said Cindi! very comforting !
ISV 1Cor !;5-9For as the Messiah's sufferings overflow into us,
so also our comfort overflows through the Messiah.
If we suffer, it is for your comfort and salvation.
If we are comforted, it is for your comfort when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we are suffering.
Our hope for you is unshaken, because we know that as you share our sufferings,
you also share our comfort.
For we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers,
about the suffering we experienced in Asia.
We were so crushed beyond our ability to endure that we even despaired of living.
In fact, we felt that we had received a death sentence so we would not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.
This thread has been asleep for a couple days . .thought I'd wake it up.
Pay close attention now: I'm creating new heavens and a new earth. All the earlier troubles, chaos, and pain are things of the past, to be forgotten. Message
For, behold me! Creating new heavens, and a new earth, - And the former shall not be mentioned, neither shall they come up on the heart, Rotherhams
Since choosing to walk in the dimensional side of things, I've found that all my old doctrines and philosopies have since passed away and it's not that God made all new things in me, but it's that he made all things new. What's the difference? In the latter sense, the old is transformed into the new. It's still the original article, but now, it's in a new format. I am still the same me, but I am now a new thing . . .he's renewed my mind . .which is to say, I see all things in a new perspective. It's still the same old Bible, but now, it has a totally new meaning.
That, to me, is the all things new piece. The other piece, is the preparating for this latter one I just addressed. My spiritual idealogy (heaven [rudiments/elements]) and my carnality (earth) must pass away before I begin seeing all things new. It's not about what happens when I go to heaven, it's what happens when heaven comes to me.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Interesting timing . . .I was just sent an email from a friend that seems to be connected to this.
By Max Lucado
My dog Molly and I aren't getting along. The problem is not her personality. A sweeter mutt you will not find. She sees every person as a friend and every day as a holiday. I have no problem with Molly's attitude. I have a problem with her habits.
Eating scraps out of the trash. Licking dirty plates in the dishwasher. Dropping dead birds on our sidewalk and stealing bones from the neighbor's dog. Shameful! Molly rolls in the grass, chews on her paw, does her business in the wrong places, and, I'm embarrassed to admit, quenches her thirst in the toilet.
Now what kind of behavior is that?
Dog behavior, you reply.
You are right. So right. Molly's problem is not a Molly problem. Molly has a dog problem. It is a dog's nature to do such things. And it is her nature that I wish to change. Not just her behavior, mind you. A canine obedience school can change what she does; I want to go deeper. I want to change who she is.
Here is my idea: a me-to-her transfusion. The deposit of a Max seed in Molly. I want to give her a kernel of human character. As it grew, would she not change? Her human nature would develop, and her dog nature would diminish. We would witness, not just a change of habits, but a change of essence. In time Molly would be less like Molly and more like me, sharing my disgust for trash snacking, potty slurping, and dish licking. She would have a new nature. Why, Denalyn might even let her eat at the table.
You think the plan is crazy? Then take it up with God. The idea is his.
What I would like to do with Molly, God does with us. He changes our nature from the inside out! "I will put a new way of thinking inside you. I will take out the stubborn hearts of stone from your bodies, and I will give you obedient hearts of flesh. I will put my Spirit inside you and help you live by my rules and carefully obey my laws" (Ezek. 36:26–27 NCV.).
God doesn't send us to obedience school to learn new habits; he sends us to the hospital to be given a new heart. Forget training; he gives transplants.
Do you understand what God has done? He has deposited a Christ seed in you. As it grows, you will change. It's not that sin has no more presence in your life, but rather that sin has no more power over your life. Temptation will pester you, but temptation will not master you. What hope this brings!
It's not up to you! Within you abides a budding power. Trust him!
"He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus" (Phil. 1:6 NIV.). God will do with you what I only dream of doing with Molly. Change you from the inside out. When he is finished, he'll even let you sit at his table.