Does Sin Exist Today

[FreeAtLast]

Are we as Christians able to still commit sin ?
what is the biblical definition of Sin ?
Will we be held accountable for our Sins if sin still exists and we continue to abide in sin ?

what do we think about these questions  ?

[Seth]

Are we as Christians able to still commit sin ?
what is the biblical definition of Sin ?
Will we be held accountable for our Sins if sin still exists and we continue to abide in sin ?

what do we think about these questions  ?

Hi FreeAtLast

The Biblical definition of sin is transgression of the law. We are able to commit sin because the Law and Prophets were hung upon love. Violation of love is lawlessness. In order to make Christians conformable to love, God gives us the Holy Spirit, to place our walk in natural, instinctual conformity to things written in the Law of Moses, even though we do not live according to the letter.

1 John 3
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Notice that John does not say, "whosoever follows the Law of Moses sinneth not." It says "whosoever abideth in him" does not sin (abide in sin). Held accountable for sin, from my perspective, means still needing salvation from sin. This means that God will judge the world for the purpose of deliverance.

[WhiteWings]

Selective quoting.....

Part#1: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not
Part#2: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. --> Sinners are not abiding in him
Part#3: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law --> Breakers of the law are sinners.

So whoever breaks the law of Moses sins and does not abide in Him for that reason.

[Seth]

Selective quoting.....

Part#1: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not
Part#2: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. --> Sinners are not abiding in him
Part#3: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law --> Breakers of the law are sinners.

So whoever breaks the law of Moses sins and does not abide in Him for that reason.

No, it means that whoever abides in him will do instinctively the things of the Law, while not having the Law (Romans 2). Abiding in Christ is done through the Holy Spirit. Those who do not love eachother show that the seed is not in them.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The active ingredient in not committing sin, is "for his seed remaineth in him." Conformity to the Law is the natural result of following the Spirit without the Law, because if his seed remains in you, your actions will be conformable to love, on which the Law and Prophets are hung.

It means you are free from the letter to follow the Spirit.

[FreeAtLast]

correct on Sin being the transgression of the law.
the woman caught in adultery was told by Yahshua to go and SIN no more(Adultery  is the 7th commandment of the law)in essence Yahshua told her to go and not to break the Father's laws anymore.

Matthew 7:21-23---Yahshua tells them to depart from him that they were workers of iniquity(if sin is the transgression of the law---then these workers of iniquity were law breakers--they were not keeping the Father's commandments)

we are told by John in 1st John 2 that we are to walk as Yahshua walked--how did he walk ?---he kept the Father's commandments.


just a few thoughts on this topic   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

we are told by John in 1st John 2 that we are to walk as Yahshua walked--how did he walk ?---he kept the Father's commandments.

How did he walk? According to the Spirit. That is why he didn't have to stone the adulterer. He did not live according to the letter, but the Spirit. There are no precepts in the Spirit, there is only the power of walking in love. That is why the commandments we are given are these: believe in Christ and love eachother.

If he followed Moses, he would have stoned the adulteress. He had a different walk.

[marie glen]

No, it means that whoever abides in him will do instinctively the things of the Law, while not having the Law (Romans 2). Abiding in Christ is done through the Holy Spirit. Those who do not love eachother show that the seed is not in them.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The active ingredient in not committing sin, is "for his seed remaineth in him." Conformity to the Law is the natural result of following the Spirit without the Law, because if his seed remains in you, your actions will be conformable to love, on which the Law and Prophets are hung.

It means you are free from the letter to follow the Spirit.

Amen! the law was a tutor until Christ in us.. a babysitter.. reminding, do not, steal, cheat, defraud.. but "Love" does no harm.. does not cheat, fraud, etc.. ..free.. beholden to no human.. every one servants to one another, no masters..

[marie glen]

Can a believer sin, and stray? I think sure, but he/she'd be a dummy! I don't think this means we are perfect, however! far from it, but it is hard for us to practice sin or have a lifestyle of sin because of He who is in us.. imho..

..but I also believe the dark entities (fallen angels) work mighty hard trying to devour and destroy whomever they can.. and however.. So we do good to "be vigilant" and "watchful unto prayer"

[josh]

i think there is a distinction
where tho as a believer one is able not to practice sin
meaning one does not consciously choose and practice
what one knows as evil

but one might have sinful thoughts but one does not dwell upon such
that would if done,come to dwell in their heart
thus one can have sinful thoughts as a believer....

also one might unwittingly do something sinful
due to a lack of a renewed matured mind
to properly divide and discern spirit and word
in one's actions...

jesus speaks of 3 kinds of sins in luke 12
the first one is essentially to know evil and do evil
this is the one that if one does
puts into question of they can be a believer
the second one is to know the good one should do and not do it...
this i suppose some christians might perhaps hesitate in doing what they know is right
perhaps because of the persecution they might receive from the world
unfortunately in the church's history
i think some times the persecution came from the established church
similar maybe even to how the jews persecuted jesus...

the third sin is and i quote
Luk 12:48  ὁ δὲ μὴ γνούς, ποιήσας δὲ ἄξια πληγῶν, δαρήσεται ὀλίγας. παντὶ δὲ ᾧ ἐδόθη πολύ, πολὺ ζητηθήσεται παρ᾿ αὐτοῦ, καὶ ᾧ παρέθεντο πολύ, περισσότερον αἰτήσουσιν αὐτόν.
Luk 12:48  But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
--------------------
The People's New Testament (1891) by B. W. Johnson
He that knew not. The man who sinned in ignorance shall have lighter punishment. Certainly degrees of punishment for degrees of guilt are taught. All will not be punished alike.

this is

[donken]

Hello.  What do you think about these scriptures in regard to Christians and sin.  I believe that the scriptures are full of the fact that Christians can sin, even the idea of backsliding that is present with Christianity in the world implies that we can "fall away" many times.  Perhaps 70 time 7 even. Not a good idea though, I would think.   Please do not take this as a fearful or threatening intended offering.  If we are going to grow, just like children in the world make many mistakes over time as they grow to adulthood, the hope is that the mistakes will become less and less in both degree and in repetition.  I know of some people who trusted some other people who they knew were Christian but they were not treated like they thought a Christian would treat them.  We do not wan to be naive, even though Jesus does tell us to forgive.   Forgiveness is good for the forgiver and it does not mean the one who did the wrong will be any different just because you have forgiven them.  The only thing that permanently stops us from doing "sin" is the Spirit of God coming into dominion in us and the world.

It is not A sin to be tempted, as Jesus himself was tempted and was in all points tempted like we are, scripture tells us.  When we know something is wrong to do according to Christ we are to resist the temptation.  Our spiritual muscles, God's love, is strengthened to us and in us over time by resisting wrong temptations.  When we do not know what the truth is, we are still in the position of being forgiven because we do not know what we are doing when we do not know something is wrong according to Jesus Christs witness.  We can also read the scriptures and think we understand something to be okay, or wrong, and yet not really understand them as we need to to KNOW what they are saying spiritually.

Luk_8:13  They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Hebrews 6 says it pretty clearly.    But it to should not be taken in a fearful manner.  We need to know what is the truth of Christ and what is not Christ for both are in us as the desires of the Spirit of GOD and the desires of the spirit of the flesh, the lusts of the flesh.  There is a place for the lusts or needs of the flesh and they will be with us all the while in the world, but they are to be kept under the love of God in us and we are to do no evil to satisfy them.

A tough separation would be the fact that Love is of the Spirit of God but physical attraction is not.  Yet, we are allowed physical attraction and it is a power for the continuation of the human race and both can be in place and feeling toward one person.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7  For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8  But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

In the natural sense we can probably read these passages with an understanding of where the idea of a burning hell comes from that is attributed to God.   But this fire that God presents to us is a fire that works our salvation and not our physical death.     

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Christians can and mainly always have believed in the world as Christians but have lived as men, as the spirit of the world, and mainly it is because of ignorance in us.  Ignorance does not mean unable to learn, it means not yet understanding something properly.

Here is the cleansing fire as stated in scripture in some places.  I will not say much because of length but Isaiah 33 speaks of an everlasting burning and this passage also speaks about that same kind of burning.

1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

My take and experience in regard to these passages is God destroys the things of the old man spiritually in us through the consuming fire of His love IN US.

This kind of fire is what we need to come upon us all, including all people who name the name of Christ in positions of power in the world and are sometimes not really obeying many of Jesus' desires.  WE all need to be judged by God. 

My belief is that God's judgment is to give us His wisdom as our own wisdom of GOD in us and then we have discernment and we judge our own selves as THE SON OF GOD that begins to know God through exercising God's judgments\wisdom in out own lives by our agreement with God about what is good to do.

1 Cor. 2 says that if men {the princes of this world} knew the wisdom of God they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.  Therefore, if we are given and learn and have the wisdom of God established in us, we then would be in the position of not disobeying Christ Jeusus' witness any longer.  We all need this wisdom through the experience of living in the world in order for the world to be filled with the good promises of God, peace on earth an good will toward men and we will not learn war any more.   We do not want to fear being Judged {taught} by God.  Love is GOD, and if we are taught by God, then we are taught by Love and Love will teach us, from within us, what love does and what love does not.

We want to WALK {live} in the world with the VOICE of the LORD GOD, which is where paradise is,. a spiritual condition we can all enter into with God.

Adam and Eve, in picture, walked with the voice of the Lord God and what they lost was THAT VOICE in them.  It is for our learning to see these things in a good light.
God bless, donken