He's been on my heart for a few months now with growing intensity and I genuinely don't know if that's just been the Holy Spirit wanting me to keep him in my prayers or if I'm supposed to read a book or two by him. I've heard things about him being comedic, but I've never yet found a funny line on his website, so I'd assume the books might have some wit in them. I'll start with an easier question to answer and if I get extra info about him, [either here or by PM,] going through the flames of Hell right now and probably genuinely needing a good intercessor in his behalf, then I'll privately take things from there on that. But has anyone read any of his books? Can anyone tell me anything about any of his books? Light reading? Insightful? Combination? Cheeseball? Birdbrain? Profound and life changing?
Hi martincisner,I have read some of his books,The one I like the best is Free Will.It is will written and helped me a lot to under stand,that our Fathers will is a lot better than our will.Another good book is How To Quit Church Without Quitting God.He Is a good writer,I enjoyed reading his books.His web site is www.martinzender.com You could go there and see what you think.crlnray :bigGrin:
Quote from: martincisneros on August 12, 2007, 12:30:00 AM
Can anyone tell me anything about any of his books? Light reading? Insightful? Combination? Cheeseball? Birdbrain? Profound and life changing?
I haven't read any of his books
but my husband has listened to many (all?) of his old radio shows.
Have you listened to them?
I have listened to some of them, too
but I have more patience with reading...
I think I have read most of what he has written on his web site.
The Lord gave me a deep love for him back in the Spring
Well, Id' rather say it this way-
The Lord loves Him deeply and I can
feel it! :HeartThrob:
I wrote to him during that time at the Lord's leading.
I'm sure Martin would
love to know you are praying for him...
I think you know more about humor than I do :icon_jokercolor: Martin
so I don't know how to categorize the
other Martin's humor...
I know my husband thinks he's funny! :happy3:
He does use some profanity which I think scares some people off...
:HeartThrob:
Hopeful
Martin Zender is a pen name. It isn't his real name. :)
Quote from: Craig on August 12, 2007, 01:37:03 AM
Martin Zender is a pen name. It isn't his real name. :)
:omg: A
Universalist with uh uh uh pen name...
? hmmm... :Chinscratch: :idea2:
:grave: :snor: :cloud9:
Quote from: crlnray on August 12, 2007, 01:14:06 AM
His web site is www.martinzender.com You could go there and see what you think.crlnray :bigGrin:
Yeah, I've read most of his website and I heard the first phase of radio broadcasts that he or someone had uploaded for him. I just haven't heard the new series of stuff. Without a broadband connection, I'm not all of that excited about trying to do that nowadays, until I get my broadband connection back - after my good computer's been fixed - after a little more money's coming in.
Quote from: hopeful on August 12, 2007, 01:15:30 AM
I think you know more about humor than I do :icon_jokercolor: Martin
so I don't know how to categorize the other Martin's humor...
I know my husband thinks he's funny! :happy3:
He does use some profanity which I think scares some people off...
:HeartThrob:
Hopeful
I don't know
anything about humor whatsoever. I'm always 100% serious. Or can't you tell? :laughing7:
Quote from: hopeful on August 12, 2007, 01:15:30 AM
He does use some profanity which I think scares some people off...
:HeartThrob:
Hopeful
:eek: :eek: :eek:
I know quite a few UR ministries with serious toilet mouth issues, that genuinely care more for defending [what got called in one of my favorite Star Trek movies] a "colorful metaphor," than they do for credibility with Christians and Backsliders
1 that need a pure witness before they'd be willing to take seriously UR as possibly being a genuine Biblical perspective they ought to sincerely pray about and investigate. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus - who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit; and, as we walk in the light as He's in the light, His Blood cleanses us from all unrighteousness. But...,
that's not buffeting one's self and bringing one's flesh into subjection, lest when one has preached to others, one should find one's self disqualified for the prize - not having competed according to the rules, and not having laid aside every weight that would beset one.
St. Paul, the chief expositor of our liberties in Christ, probably said as much about "the mouth" as Jesus or Solomon did. And more than either of the others he clearly said to clean that $#!+ up.
I'm tightening up the leash on my own mouth, currently, and sincerely praying for wisdom and deliverance in the matter. So, I'm not the "first one tossing a stone."
1 I'd define a Backslider as someone raised in, or previously associated with, Christianity that
thinks that they know more about it than they genuinely do. In other words, someone who's been a Christian
in the past, but is
no longer living in fellowship with the Lord or according to Biblical principles.
How does a dead man run a race? Or even care about a prize..............that verse seems to contradict the verses on life exchange, my life for his, where I believe the gospel is centered.
I must decrease, he must increase until there is only him..........so where does this striving for the prize come from??? It seems anymore it is either all him doing the driving or me. I overcome by letting go. I no longer believe I can do anything to win him, my love, my life, except be still until he does his work in me.........it may be a while yet in the wilderness..........but when I am called out he will be driving and I will be in the back seat, along for the ride.........if there is a prize it will be him with nothing between us..........nothing hidden, between us................just some thoughts,
with much passion and reality for me.
Love
Joian
I decreased and He increased when I abandoned all to follow Him, embracing His Lordship and renouncing all of my former ways. "I must decrease so that He can increase" isn't a New Covenant statement. It was a statement from John the Baptist in relation to the popularity of "John the Baptist Evangelistic Association" officially "going off of the air" as the crowds started pursuing Jesus and His Apostles more and more. It's the same as if someone from Looney Tunes had closed a cartoon saying "That's a wrap folks!!" It wasn't initially a statement of submission. It was a statement from someone with some humility whose "public ministry" just "went to Hell" as far as his monthly partner base, the subscribers to his tape of the month, etc., etc., etc.
After the resurrection, the command is repentance, and upon repentance, belief that God raised Jesus from the dead, and confessing Him as the Lord of one's life, then one is raised up and made to sit together with Him in heavenly places far above all principality and power and every name that's named. We're given His Name and are to be thoroughly equiped for every good Work through increasing in the grace of God and Apostolic doctrine so that we're "no longer tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine," but conformed to the image of His dear Son; walking in the light as He's in the light: going into all of the world and preaching the Gospel, discipling the nations, casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead, and assuring everyone that Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today, and to the age when He delivers up the Kingdom to God the Father. He's the Chief Shepherd and High Priest Who administers the Words of the New Covenant in the lives and in the mouths of believers so that as we walk by faith and not by sight, realizing that what's seen is temporary and the blindness of those whose minds Satan has blinded to the glorious Gospel is eonian.
"I must decrease so that He can increase" is daily happening for anyone whose very Words and natures are growing further and further into His image, as they're working out their salvation with fear and trembling REALIZING that it's God at work within them to will and to do for His good pleasure. And that's where the race comes from that Paul is talking about in Corinthians, or the wrestling match comes from that he's talking about in Ephesians. Having done all to stand, we stand, praying with all prayers and supplications in the Spirit and that boldness and utterance would be given to each of us to share this New Life with the masses in the Name and in the total example and fullest Power [in demonstration] of Jesus Christ.
I have read most of his books and I really like the way he makes his point. He is embarking on taking the good news on the road the upcoming weeks and months. Speaking where he is invited, starting with the NorthEast area I believe. I had an email telling more about it but I have deleted it.
Seems that God is "stirring" him and that may be why he needs someone to pray for him.....
God Bless him as he travels.
Debbie :)
I know Martin Z. personally. I speak at his conferences each year in Ohio, so I better know him. We e-mail back and forth as well. Jeff P., er, uh, Martin Z. is the modern day equivalent of Mark Twain.
His books are highly recommended by me. He has been emerging from being very burned out. I never thought of him being comedic. That might be me :icon_joker: but not him.
I have read two of Martin Zenders books and plan to order more. I find his writtings very enjoyable reading. Thing's he teaches God has used his writting's to bring me revelation of truth. One thing Martin is good at is getting people to look into the scriptures for themselves. He also sounds very humble on his audio streams. Just my :2c:
God Bless,
Bruce
I always wonder about the ethical implications of a UR author using a Pen Name. I know my history that there have been UR authors that have done it before, and I think that Chauncy's "Mystery Hid From Ages and Generations" may have even been originally penned anonymously, if I'm not mistaking the story of that with another book/author. Seems to open the door wide to the criticism of being too afraid to stand behind one's Bible beliefs in one's own name.
Yet at the same time, if I felt like I ever had peace about it, "martin cisneros" would have probably ""disappeared"" a long time ago. Because I know that a Pen Name allows one to be bolder about certain things (sometimes), and also demands a certain [elevated] degree of excellence if you're not wanting to sound exactly like "you" to everybody that would know you personally.
Quote from: Tony N on August 12, 2007, 05:55:05 AM
I know Martin Z. personally. I speak at his conferences each year in Ohio, so I better know him. We e-mail back and forth as well. Jeff P., er, uh, Martin Z. is the modern day equivalent of Mark Twain.
His books are highly recommended by me. He has been emerging from being very burned out. I never thought of him being comedic. That might be me :icon_joker: but not him.
Tony, can you shed any light on why he uses a pen name?
My thought would be simply for privacy's sake.
Also, I don't think he has ever identified himself as a Universalist. Right?
I have read most of his site and all his books. His first book "How to Quit Church without Quitting God" was very freeing and I love his humor. We all relate to different personalities and I did not mind some of his objectionable words. He brings reality into your life.
Barbara
Quote from: hopeful link=topic=148.msg845#msg845 date=
Tony, can you shed any light on why he uses a pen name?
My thought would be simply for privacy's sake.
Also, I don't think he has ever identified himself as a Universalist. Right?
The reason for the privacy is because he knew if he did his job well enough that Christians would want to kill him. I'm sure he wanted to protect his family as well.
On his radio shows he did identify himself as believing God would save all. As far as being a Universalist, what's that? :laughing7:
Quote from: crlnray on August 12, 2007, 01:14:06 AM
Hi martincisner,I have read some of his books,The one I like the best is Free Will.It is will written and helped me a lot to under stand,that our Fathers will is a lot better than our will.Another good book is How To Quit Church Without Quitting God.He Is a good writer,I enjoyed reading his books.His web site is www.martinzender.com You could go there and see what you think.crlnray :bigGrin:
:ty: for the link. Enjoyed reading his stuff.
Hey seeker, what does this mean in your sig?
IHWLAMAHOB
Tony
Acts 17:28a
Quote from: hopeful link=topic=148.msg845#msg845 date=
Also, I don't think he has ever identified himself as a Universalist. Right?
Quote from: Tony N on August 12, 2007, 10:02:56 PM
On his radio shows he did identify himself as believing God would save all. As far as being a Universalist, what's that? :laughing7:
Right. That's how I remembered it but I didn't want to misquote him.
My husband would really like to meet Him sometime...
"How to Quit Church-" is a great introductory book for christian universalism. I bought and distributed some copies which were well received by all who read them. He kept it easy and had some classically used thought provoking observations for the casual reader. That one will remain on my recommended reading list.
His "Martin Zender Goes to Hell" booklet is, (apologies to Martin,) a very very poor dissection of the scriptures. He got way over his head. Many of his explanations of certain N.T. passages were again imho, not scholarly credible whatsoever, particularly about the Law and his views of Israel. He almost touches the full preterist positions which some in UR are fond of (I'm not fond of those positions at ALL.) If that's where Martin is going to land with his theological positions on certain subjects, it's gonna be a very short trail. He may have the big picture down quite well and kudos for that, but sooner or later you do get into the details if you want to remain credible in your presentations and out of the realm of personal imagination worship. But sadly within UR there are also many many camps of various repositories for positions that are not even remotely credible, but people will still stand and cheer and amen them anyway. Who really cares about credibilty if it "sells?"
If I had a copy left of the booklet I'd give some examples but I promptly trashed them all as an embarrassing example of poor study and/or poor advice and I won't be "buying" anymore. I know where most of his positions were parroted from. I'm sure he meant well, but it was just simplistically bad, particularly since one "pays" to read and learn from people who hold themselves out as "learned authors." Wasn't expecting just another fairy tale dissection from yet another guy who uses scriptures to cancel out other scriptures because they "don't get them" or they don't jive with their particular theological doctrine carving.
Harmonization is a tough gig for any who enter therein and cancellation or alteration of The Word is a dead end street, particularly if you want to dialog within orthodoxy. He would be rightfully laughed at with that booklet as a basis.
Call me bad for being honest. I don't care. It was just bad :thumbdown:
squint
Hi squint,
Thanks for your brutal honesty. Those were [specific] impressions that I had of some of the radio clips of his, but knowing a little bit about the radio world and the media in general, I kinda gave the benefit of the doubt that he was "sound biting" for those turning through the radio dial. I'm trying to cultivate a certain level of "natural" ability to do that as well.
All I really care about is if he's making people that wouldn't otherwise look at a Bible AT ALL, if he's getting some of them to go dust it off, and perhaps [very carefully] get some spider webs and cat dander off of it, as well as roach unmentionables, and to open it up and start reading some of the passages that he'll mention. If he totally blew his credibility with theologians, I don't get the impression that that's particularly the audience that he's after anyway.
I've continued to bump into people that think that he's genuinely very funny. Well, if he's the UR version of a Jesse Duplantis, then he'll at least help to continue to bring in a new crowd to some of the other UR websites in addition to his own. If he makes a few people think, touches some of the untouchables with the Love of God, and scares some fundies half to death - I get the impression he's acheived 80% to 90% of his goals anyway :laughing7:
I bless him and thank God for him and anyone else that's even trying.
Yeah, I hear ya Martin. Just like anything else some stuff I can take and some I won't. That's probably true for all of us. Many who come to UR will carry some of the things they've established from Orthodoxy to their graves. Some have to chuck it all and just start over. There is just not much in the world of christianity that I haven't seen or heard, and this flag from Paul covers quite a bit of territory:
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ
And of course who can deny this working in the "churches?"
51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
I think in this way Jesus was exceptionally successful eh? Sad, but oh so provably true. I didn't come into UR understanding expecting to find any different. But that one great exception to the "rule" of "satan" in the churches of eternal damnation, the salvation of ALL mankind was close enough to heaven for me for now. Getting the big picture has soothed my soul immensely. And upholding orthodox doctrines in the face of the greater challenges to find love, certainly is a dead end street as well. I have seen people waste their entire lives divided over a single word.
enjoy!
squint
Squint, Martin Z. is not a Preterist, nor even a partial preterist.
He believes a future millennium is coming.
I think you misunderstood his book.
Hi Tony
Like I said, if I had the booklet in question I could be more specific. I am not fond of certain positions for certain reasons. Many "preterists" preach that there are two gospels. One for the Israelites one another one for the gentiles. And they use that position to cancel out huge amounts of scripture where I may believe there are other more valid ways to approach those same subjects. In their more extreme forms, full preterists go as far as to eradicte entire segments of the N.T. such as the book of Hebrews and James. Sound familiar?
I wrote Martin about it, and he responded, which I appreciated. I have nothing against him as Gods offspring, and of course the bottom line is just okey dokey with me just as it is between us as Gods offspring. Sometimes it's hard to keep that in mind with grappling with some of these subjects eh?
enjoy!
squint
Entirely off the subject, but now I'm wondering about the brick of Kryptonite above my picture on my posts :icon_jokercolor:
Quote from: martincisneros on August 13, 2007, 06:54:57 PM
Entirely off the subject, but now I'm wondering about the brick of Kryptonite above my picture on my posts :icon_jokercolor:
LOL :laughing7:
Had time on my hands so I designed new rating pics, trying to pretty up the place, your next color is purple, when you get to 3000 it will be gold, post away, there is a place to vote for this new look in forum help.
The stars are 2 military IMO
Blessings
Quote from: squint on August 13, 2007, 06:01:18 PM
Hi Tony
Like I said, if I had the booklet in question I could be more specific. I am not fond of certain positions for certain reasons. Many "preterists" preach that there are two gospels. One for the Israelites one another one for the gentiles. And they use that position to cancel out huge amounts of scripture where I may believe there are other more valid ways to approach those same subjects. In their more extreme forms, full preterists go as far as to eradicte entire segments of the N.T. such as the book of Hebrews and James. Sound familiar?
I wrote Martin about it, and he responded, which I appreciated. I have nothing against him as Gods offspring, and of course the bottom line is just okey dokey with me just as it is between us as Gods offspring. Sometimes it's hard to keep that in mind with grappling with some of these subjects eh?
enjoy!
squint
squint,
I think you are confusing your terms. A Preterist would put Circumcision and Uncircumcision writings into one pot.
A
Dispensationalist would correctly cut (rightly divide) the Scriptures and keep the Circumcision writings to their group and the Uncircumcision writings to their respective group, i.e. the Nations.
Martin does not eradicate any scriptures. He just believes that James, being written to the 12 tribes is for them. We can read James and learn from it many important truths such as God's sovereignty etc. But we are not under law.
If he does identify himself as a Universalist, he may use a pen name for his own protection. He may be based in an area hostile to UR.
I ordered his book: "How to quit church without quitting God" I can't wait to read it :happy3:
Regards,
Forgiven
Quote from: Tony N on August 13, 2007, 09:50:12 PM
squint,
I think you are confusing your terms. A Preterist would put Circumcision and Uncircumcision writings into one pot.
Not so when both camps eradicate the Law at 70 a.d. and then begin to divide or eliminate the applicability of the scriptures based on either dispensation or on preterism, full or partial.
Quote
A Dispensationalist would correctly cut (rightly divide) the Scriptures and keep the Circumcision writings to their group and the Uncircumcision writings to their respective group, i.e. the Nations.
"Most (but not all)
Partial Preterists also
believe the term Last Days refers not to the last days of planet Earth or the last days of humankind, but rather
to the last days of the Mosaic covenant which God had exclusively with national Israel until the year AD 70 (see also New Covenant). As God came in judgment upon various nations in the Old Testament, Christ also came in judgment
against those in Israel who rejected him." (Cited from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism)
If I had Martin's booklet here Tony,
we could see that this is what Martin presents, which IS
also a partial preterist view which he openly espouses to eradicate the Law, him not being an "Israelite" who lived at that time or prior. Dispensationalism may also hold this same view.
Quote
Martin does not eradicate any scriptures. He just believes that James, being written to the 12 tribes is for them. We can read James and learn from it many important truths such as God's sovereignty etc. But we are not under law.
And again Tony,
that is also a preterist view, of which there are many variants and
overlaps with "
dispensationalism" of which there are also many variants. I do believe you also hold to the 2 Gospel position. In my city there is a school of preterists that preach the two gospel position and espouse the eradiation of both James and Hebrews. The robe of preterism and dispensationalism moves back and forth between these camps on many of these subjects, but I would also agree that the 2 gospel position is largely one of dispensationalism that many preterists, full or partial, may hold.
Both dispensationalists (of various types) and preterists (of various types) stop the Mosaic Law at the Nation of Israel in various forms and times and both camps will divide many scriptures along those lines. There are getting to be so many slices and dices of these various positions that it is hard to keep up with anymore. And the lists of divisions grows almost daily.
enjoy!
squint
squint, could you give me Biblical evidence that Jesus came back in 70 A.D.? If so, are you saying the 1000 year kingdom began then?
Martin is not a preterist nor a partial preterist. I know Martin.
Hi Tony
I've said all I care to note on the subject and it was "law" specific, not an eschatological observation.
I realize you stated it is all you care to say on the subject, but could you at least tell me what you mean that it was "law specific"? In what way was Jeff wrong? Just curious. :Chinscratch:
Who is Jeff? :grin:
Like I said Tony, had I retained the booklet, I could cite many examples of "Martin's" positions that I "personally" considered very very weak. I gave "one" example that I specifically recalled, and that was that "the Law" was completely invalid and gone.
We should both know well enough that Paul "upheld and established" the Law, said it was Holy, Righteous and Good if "used" properly. Even said it was SPIRITUAL. That the law empowers sin, yes even arouses it unto judgment. And we also know that in his MIND Paul STILL SERVED that same Law that Martin completely ERADICATES.
You and I have both debated these same issues many times with many people, and you should also know that these same New Testament scriptures cannot be written off or thrown away AND retain any type of "credibility" without resorting to our own imaginations, which Martin in my opinion has done, at least as it pertains to that subject. I also do not adhere to the "two Gospel" theory, which is also used to mitigate, minimize or even eliminate many scriptures as you have thusly noted.
There are simply better ways to dissect these subjects, again imho.
squint
Thanks squint.
Jeff is Martin.
Martin is Jeff's penn name.
I'm certain Jeff is an OK person who loves God.
Quote from: Craig on August 12, 2007, 01:37:03 AM
Martin Zender is a pen name. It isn't his real name. :)
I thought Jeff Priddy or Priddly is his pen name? Does he have more than one pen name?
My favorite Zender book is 'Flawed by Design." He tells how we are created the way we are so God can do his work in us shaping and conforming us into His image. I have given away almost all my Zender books. I find him truthful, funny, interesting, well versed in scripture and an around good guy. He's a good read for those who are unfamiliar with UR because he writes his books for beginners...those who are questioning ET beliefs but have nowhere to verify the things they are starting to see as false. :thumbsup:
Yea, Flawed by Design is a great read. I was at a baseball game and had that book next to me with just the back of the book showing. A woman sitting next to me read the back of the book and told me that was really true and asked if she could read the book. I gave it to her. You just never know how something will minister to someone, do you?
Martin Zender is his pen name.
Jeff Priddy is his legal birth name.
I think where some people might have gotten that confused is that you can still find really old stuff online by "Jeff Priddy" that others haven't taken the time to add the ambiguity of a pen name to. I'm thinking I bumped into Jeff's name also on the God's Truth For Today website. And I was all like, "boy that sounds a lot like the biting wit of Zender" and then I wandered over to L. Ray Smith's website [on the same exact day if I remember right] and he made the actual connection on his site.
To me, it's nearly pointless to do the pen name thing if it can still be researched online who ya really are. If I ever did a pen name, I'd try to lean on somebody about being a ghost writer/editor and give them the simple instruction with the article or manuscript: "keep edits to a minimum if at all even remotely possible, but keep it from sounding like me at absolutely all costs."
What would I do if a pic was unavoidable? Hmmm... Lose some weight and wear a hat? Or better yet, wear a suit for the photo shoot. My own mother's never seen me in a suit before. Nobody has. My own mother would swear that a pic of me in a suit wasn't even me :laughing7:
martincisneros wrote:
Quotegoing through the flames of Hell right now and probably genuinely needing a good intercessor in his behalf, then I'll privately take things from there on that.
Hey, I could use my own private intercessor, where do I sign up :dontknow: :grin:
Forgiven wrote
QuoteI ordered his book: "How to quit church without quitting God" I can't wait to read it happy3
Regards,
Forgiven
Did you ever get and read the book? How was it :dontknow:
ive read several of martin zenders books.
very good in my opinion.
i have about 30 cpoies of "flawed by design"
i hand them out all the time.
blessings
chuckt
Quote from: Tony N on August 12, 2007, 05:55:05 AM
I know Martin Z. personally. I speak at his conferences each year in Ohio, so I better know him. We e-mail back and forth as well. Jeff P., er, uh, Martin Z. is the modern day equivalent of Mark Twain.
His books are highly recommended by me. He has been emerging from being very burned out. I never thought of him being comedic. That might be me :icon_joker: but not him.
hi T.
im a friend of Jean D.>>>> ""martin"" was here in atlanta the other night but i missed out on meeting him, maybe next time.
will you be in KY this weekend?? arent you speaking? i thought i saw your name on the list??
peace
chuckt