Died In My Stead?

[sheila]

 the begotton spirit in us has to be born again from above[clothed] in incorruption too!

[Molly]

Friend I can see what you are saying, and I will agree because it is so; our humiliation will be conformed to His glorious body but your explanations seem to see this conforming without dying. You say that this will take place when we die, correct?

First of all, our bodies will not be 'conformed,' they will be 'transformed' into his glorious [glorified] body.  Those are different Greek words.

Second, I said this would happen at the end of the age when the entire body of Christ [his brothers] are brought in.  That is why I quoted from Hebrews which says the Old Testament saints have to wait for us for the promise to be fulfilled.

Third, I have said if we believe in Jesus we will never die and that God has prepared a body for us in heaven.  I did not say anything about what this body might be like, not did I say that this is the same body as the glorified body we are talking about here.  In fact, I consider it an interim body between the one we have now and the glorified body, and I believe that is what 2Cor 5 is telling us.

I myself do not have the slightest idea what a glorious body will look like. Do you?

Yes, just like you, I have the descriptions of it in the Bible.

Again, the word in Phil 3:21  is 'transform' not 'conform.'


"transform"

G3345
μετασχηματίζω
metaschēmatizō
met-askh-ay-mat-id'-zo
From G3326 and a derivative of G4976; to transfigure or disguise; figuratively to apply (by accommodation): - transfer, transform (self).

This glorified body will be a different body than the one we have now.

So, are we on the same page yet?  And, if not, how not?

[micah7:9]

Ill stand corrected on .....First of all, our bodies will not be 'conformed,' they will be 'transformed' into his glorious [glorified] body.  Those are different Greek words. After checking 35 translations its transformed, dont know how I got conformed.

Second, I said this would happen at the end of the age when the entire body of Christ [his brothers] are brought in.  That is why I quoted from Hebrews which says the Old Testament saints have to wait for us for the promise to be fulfilled.
This I new but I guess I did see it.

I cannot support this one....
Third, I have said if we believe in Jesus we will never die......
You may be talking about some "spiritual death" but the writer in Hebrews is talking of expiration. Judgement begins in the house of God, and He is judging those now in that house.
Heb 9:27 and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this--judgment,

But will die or Paul is incorrect.
1Co 15:16 for if dead persons do not rise, neither hath Christ risen,

[Molly]

I cannot support this one....
Third, I have said if we believe in Jesus we will never die......

Ok.  We can agree to disagree on that.

[micah7:9]

I cannot support this one....
Third, I have said if we believe in Jesus we will never die......

Ok.  We can agree to disagree on that.

:mshock: :HeartThrob: :bgdance:

[Molly]

Heaven is not a place.

Heaven is a place:

For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf.
--Heb 9:24




Heaven is not a part of this creation:

Hebrews 9:11 When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.


We can trust in Jesus, our advocate in heaven:

Hebrews 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.


Jesus has prepared a place for us in heaven:

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:2


We  have a house [body] prepared for us in heaven:

For we know that if this poor tent, our earthly house, is taken down, we have in Heaven a building which God has provided, a house not built by human hands, but eternal.
2Cor 5:1


We will follow Jesus to heaven:

Simon Peter asked him, "Lord, where are you going?" Jesus replied, "Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later."
John 13:36



I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,
because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.
2 Pet 1:14

[micah7:9]

 :sigh:
bye

[Molly]

JESUS THE KINSMAN REDEEMER

Hebrews 2:11-18

He has sent redemption to His people; He has ordained His covenant forever; holy and awesome is His name. (Psalm 111:9).

Slavery was a very common institution in the ancient world. There were a number of ways in which a man might become a slave.

He might he born into slavery. The son of a slave was himself considered a slave.
He might be captured by an invading array and become a prized captive, led away in chains to a foreign country to be sold as a slave.
He might fall into debt so that he was forced to declare bankruptcy. This involved selling yourself into slavery to pay the debts that were owed.
Picture the situation of this last scenario. An Israelite living in the land of Palestine is hit with economic disaster. Perhaps a famine has come over the land and wiped out his crops. Rather than resort to begging, he sells himself into slavery, using the proceeds to pay off his debts and to care for his starving family.

And so, he becomes a slave. Can he ever regain his freedom? Yes. But it can only happen if the redemption price is paid.

Now if the means of a stranger or of a sojourner with you becomes sufficient, and a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to him as to sell himself to a stranger who is sojourning with you, or to the descendants of a stranger's family, 48 then he shall have redemption right after he has been sold. One of his brothers may redeem him, 49 or his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or one of his blood relatives from his family may redeem him; or if he prospers, he may redeem himself." (Leviticus 25:47-49).

This was the Law of the Kinsman Redeemer. It listed four qualifications which were necessary for a man to fulfill the role of Kinsman Redeemer. It was only when a man possessed these four qualities that he was permitted to perform this task.

1. He must be a Kinsman.

The passage is very explicit that this redeemer must be related to the one whom he is going to buy back out of slavery.

2. He must be Free himself.

A slave was unable to purchase another slave. A Kinsman Redeemer must be himself free of the debt and of the bondage which had fallen on the one who was to be redeemed.

3. He must be able to Pay the Price.

If he did not have the necessary sum of money which was required to pay the purchase price, then he would not be able to redeem his relative.

4. He must be Willing to pay the price.

It was not enough to have a kinsman who was able to accomplish the work of redemption. He must also be willing to make the sacrifice of paying the price. I imagine that there were a number of slaves with rich uncles who just didn't want to spend the money to release their unfortunate relative from slavery.

Each of these qualifications was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. God sent Jesus into the world s slave market of sin to purchase men from their bondage of sin. He alone met the qualifications of the Kinsman Redeemer.

He became a Kinsman by taking on flesh and becoming a man. He was free from the bondage of sin. He was able to pay the ransom price. He was willing to pay the price.



THE PROMISE OF A KINSMAN

For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying, "I will proclaim Thy name to My brethren, in the midst of the congregation I will sing Thy praise."

And again, "I will put My trust in Him." And again, "Behold, I and the children whom God has given Me." (Hebrews 2:11-13).

http://www.angelfire.com/nt/theology/hb02-11.html

[WhiteWings]

The Almond Tree, in Hebrew "Light"

The almont tree is the first tree that blossoms after winter.
Sorry for the slighly late answer  :laughing7: