Dazed and Confused

[Msandino]

Greeting all those in the Tent!

Maybe someone can help me? Since I came to believe in the Victorious Gospel about two months ago, I have been overwhelmed with joy and excitement about the hopeful destiny of all mankind.

But now, three months later, I've become a train wreck.

While reading my Bible and reviewing my memorized scriptures,  I'm constantly overwhelmed with how many verses point to UR and I'm continually looking up original language words in BlueLetterBible.com, journaling my discoveries, documenting my research.  I can't seem to get anything done during the day as I feel obsessed with desire to understand and to prepare to explain to others and nothing else seems important. I'm making mistakes on the job 'cause I'm so distracted. "Sorry I forgot to order those supplies, its just that I'm extremely concerned that there's a 1600-year-old conspiracy to rob the Sovereign Lord of His Glory, and that most of the modern world has been unaware of His Mercy and Kindness..."

I've reached out to my closest, dearest Christian friends and am agonized to find that they are perfectly comfortable with ECT. I REALLY thought as least one of them would be like "Really?!? Is there a possible Bible basis that all could be saved? What is it?" Instead they're like, "Eternal Torment is so plain in the Bible -- how could you think otherwise? " Nobody is getting Berean on me....I really thought they would.

Finally, I feel really alone. If I was wrestling with depression or despair, I could reach out to my friends and family, and they would come alongside me. But I can't explain what I'm feeling and they only seem to humor me when I talk about it, so I've stopped trying.

Doctor - is this normal? How long will it last?

Thanks for listening,

Martha

[marie glen]

Oh yes, I feel that way about U.R. (and also about the ever popular atheism of today)... Some things, once learned are so very hard (seem impossible) to dislodge. It sure is a mystery!! And the good news itself.. of life with Jesus and the joy.. why we would love to give it away.. give Him away to all those we love and know! But no matter how glorious.. how wonderful.. how at times ecstatic.. you can't give it away. The best thing in life.. Often so hard to share..

It is truly a mystery to me, too, why more of our brothers and sisters do not think of the U.R. message as the greatest of things.. It seems very logical to me, that He can only be perfect, and therefor surely, the 'end' result of all this (life as we presently know it) can only be the absolutely best end result possible! The greatest of joy.. and level headed logic.. And as you said, Martha, so very many verses behind it, even boldly stating it! I think of it often as a sort of peer pressure. 'Everyone' figures they'll be 'fallen away' if they don' stick to the established doctrine..  :dontknow: Truly, what are we to make of it? And what can we do? I quote verses when I get a chance, and that's it.. except on the web.. Can be much bolder on the web.. Slowly letting it come out on facebook, lest an uproar begin.. just seeds when the chance arises..   :Chinscratch: Nothing compared to how our Lord felt in Gethsemane as his closest ones were sleeping and couldn't "watch with Him one hour". A lonely path sometimes.. :bottlebump: :icon_jokercolor: (To some wer're clowns?)

How can most believers be joyful if some of their loved ones, and folks they know, are in dire danger.. eternal danger! :faint: :eek:

I'm ever so thankful for the tent, where we can find sanity!! I think I'm going to have a sense of humor about it! Since I know ultimately all will know the full (and overflowing) good news..

Some :Pray: for you and for all of us! :HeartThrob:

[Msandino]

Thanks Marie Glen for the encouragement!  :dsunny:  :Peace2:

[Ross]

Finally, I feel really alone. If I was wrestling with depression or despair, I could reach out to my friends and family, and they would come alongside me. But I can't explain what I'm feeling and they only seem to humor me when I talk about it, so I've stopped trying.

Doctor - is this normal? How long will it last?

Thanks for listening,

Martha

Greetings Martha;
Do not despair- you are much loved by your wondrous saviour and creator.
Dealing with you personally is a one to one thing. Other will try to distract you, sometimes out of concern for you because they cannot see what is going on in your heart. Either way, greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.

I.M.O you are going to ask many questions- this is part of learning.
Consider that the flesh and the spirit are opposites. Paul talks about this in Galations 5.
This is our state until the resurrection.
Paul mentions in 1 Cor 15 that , "If this life is all there is then we should be pitied the most."
The things to come are greater than the current.

True repentance is basically changing everything you value. A step by step walk with a new outlook.
The flesh will try to hold to what it knows- the spirit, which is greater, will give you the assurance and security of position In Christ.

1 John 3;1,2 " Look what kind of love the Father HAS GIVEN TO US, that we may be called the children of God, and so we are.
                   For the reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him.
                   Dear friends, at the present time we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we will be.
                   BUT WE DO KNOW THAT WHEN HE IS REVELEALED WE WILL BE LIKE HIM, because we will see Him just as He is."
                   the world does not know us."

Romans 8;38,39  ..... 'NOTHING can keep you from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.'

May our Lord smile on you and give you peace; you are much loved.

[eaglesway]

The Holy Spirit is our teacher. As we all kno He is also our Comforter. I think it is important to digest these things for awhile, and celebrate it in the peace and joy He gives. He will lead us and guide us in the sharing of it- but religious debate is depressing and not good for the spirit.

After some time has passed God will so fill your spirit with the joy of knowing these things that you will find the sharing easier, and more Spirit-led.

Most of the time people are hard headed and their ego and their security is so tied to there "beliefs" that they here only a threat when we turn their world upside down, after all, they might go to hell for not believing in hell :o)

[Dandelion]

Hi Martha,

Please, don't feel alone. I know so well how that feels. I have been there so many times and for so very long......

Know that you belong to Christ.....not only is God with us always, He will give us what and who we need, down here. It might not happen when we want it to, or the 'package' the what and who come in might be surprising, but when I look back on my life, I see his hand in everything, now. I am 60 years old, and I feel like many of the pieces are not only starting to fit, but are like shining stars, in the night sky.

And, the plan God has for you, is enormously important, in many ways I am sure, not least of all, as a emissary for His Victorious Gospel.

Don't let fear seep in......I find fear to be much more destructive than it might look on the surface.

The few friends I have discussed this with, already, have not taken it well. The best reaction is just that they accept I think this way, but believe I am wrong, and are hoping I come back to believing in hell very soon. The worst reaction is accusing me of not truly being a Christian, and being damned to Hell.

So, yes.....I understand.

Psalm 62:5 -7
...5My soul, wait in silence for God only, For my hope is from Him. 6He only is my rock and my salvation, My stronghold; I shall not be shaken. 7On God my salvation and my glory rest; The rock of my strength, my refuge is in God....

And, remember, you have us.

And, feel free to message me, if you like.

D.

[Graph1159]

Hi Martha,

I also can relate to everything you wrote. When I first discovered the ultimate reconciliation of all, I was ecstatic, and I spent a huge amount of time studying the subject for further confirmations and deeper understanding. This enthusiasm and "obsession" lasted about 6 months. However, after that phase, I started coming back to earth, and realizing that despite the newfound insights, nothing much in my life had really changed, as I was still dealing with the same struggles as before.

What unfolded slowly over several years, and continues through the present time, was a process of coming to trust in God's sovereignty and Christ's redemptive work for my life on a deeper level. I believe that knowing God's plan for all mankind was what enabled this process to begin. However, as these developments unfolded, the eventual salvation of all became an aspect of a larger theme, as opposed to being the center of my attention. I have heard similar testimonies from others as well.

[rosered]

Hi Martha and all

  Not everyone knows this glory of God  :dsunny:
My hubby still thinks   this cannot be true  and yet many   times we can ''talk '' about the Lord in peace and joy ...

A couple of eye openers   that helps  is   not keeping any record of wrong doing , we also must stop doing such ways as the , Perfect    holds no record of wrong doing and totally about   forgiveness of sins   and the only    sin that  merits   harsh  judgment is Blaspheming the Holy Spirit

2Cor  5 Ambassadors for Christ
...18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God....

[bushy]

I also experienced the joy and excitement and thought everyone else would be thrilled to hear about it. But then the same old story. Now after about six years I've come to see and accept the fact that it is God who works in us all and He is the author and finisher of our faith. It beats me why He doesn't open up the understanding of everyone but He knows what He is doing. So now instead of being upset about others not seeing the wonderful news, I know God knows what He doing and it isn't up to me to force anyone to change their mind.

Romans 14:4  Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

This verse has taken a lot of the judgementalism out of me and I can better accept people the way they are.

[tm55]

Martha,

Just yesterday, when I should have been doing my job, I was circling in my Bible "justified" in Romans 3:24, and "heir of the world" in Romans 4:13, because they dovetail so well with "the many will be made righteous" of Romans 5:19.  (By these Romans 3,4 & 5 verses, Paul appears to imply that the previously stated requirement to "believe" or "receive grace" would in fact be met by everybody eventually.  That Romans 3 & 4 paralleled Romans 5 so closely was a breakthrough for me.)

So, sorry to say, it lasts at least 9 years.

[eaglesway]

Not always :o)

[Msandino]

Thanks you all !

I appreciated all your comfort and encouragement. Yes it is a crazy mystery. Thanks be to God for the Internet without which I would not have had the courage to believe, nor the knowledge that I'm in very good company : not only you but so many serious and scholarly theologians and thinkers throughout history!

I have taken consolation in finding that Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration of Independence and my very own ancestor, was a proponent of UR! And I also read today that Madame L'Engle, author of my very favorite childhood classic, "A Wrinkle In Time," also was castigated for preaching and writing that God would save all.

If I didn't have access to the Internet -- which also made my studies of Koine Greek possible -- I would be like my friends and CS Lewis and Lee Strobel, defending the indefensible, because they can't see anything else in the scriptures. In an odd sort of way, it really is an incredible stretch of faith to say things, like my friends are telling me, "Anyway, we can't know the mind of God, it's a mystery, the secret things belong to the Lord, His ways are higher than our ways, even though you have a sense of moral outrage, that doesn't mean we can understand His Justice..."

I hear what they are saying, but seriously? I mean, the Holy Trinity is a mystery, God being beyond all time and space yet present in everything, that's a mystery. How Jesus could love a sinner like me -- that's a mystery. But an absolutely Good and Loving God and His Son who gave his life for us tending the everlasting fire???  :eek: That's not a mystery! That's madness!  :doh:

I freaked out my friends by telling them that not only did I not believe that, but that I would not serve a God who could do that. They wonder if I'm truly obedient and faithful...ARGGHH

Thanks for being there!  :HeartThrob:

Love,
Martha

[marie glen]

...they'll get over that (I'm thinking).. especially as they see more love and joy (like a mellow fountain?) within you ..and though not judgmental, it becomes more apparent, to us, the faulty attitudes which seem to come with the whole 'hell' belief, but our simply loving them, no matter, can mellow them on the issue..
   :gsmile:

[Msandino]

 :Pray:
Here's to hope!

[eaglesway]

...they'll get over that (I'm thinking).. especially as they see more love and joy (like a mellow fountain?) within you ..and though not judgmental, it becomes more apparent, to us, the faulty attitudes which seem to come with the whole 'hell' belief, but our simply loving them, no matter, can mellow them on the issue..
   :gsmile:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Ross]

:Pray:
Here's to hope!

Amen! Hope can be defined as  expectation.
I.M.O we are expecting the things to come as way more glorious than the current state of being. Needed much prep work. Christ did all that for us to join Him and our glorious Father.

[bushy]

Thanks you all !
I have taken consolation in finding that Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration of Independence and my very own ancestor, was a proponent of UR! And I also read today that Madame L'Engle, author of my very favorite childhood classic, "A Wrinkle In Time," also was castigated for preaching and writing that God would save all.

Hannah Whitall Smith is another one. She was one of my mother's favorite writers, but didn't know that she wrote about the salvation of all because it was cut out of her book by the publishers so they could sell more books. Those chapters can be found on the Tentmaker website and other places.

[tm55]

Martha,

If you ever need to take a break from the life-transforming literature on Tentmaker and read something a bit lighter, I suggest Madeleine L'Engle's Arm of the Starfish.

Here's my Amazon review ...

"The Arm of the Starfish is my favorite L'Engle book for many of the reasons previous reviewers have cited. I also agree with the last reviewer that there's more here than meets the eye. The names of most of the characters are significant. For example, the actual fourth century namesakes of Didymus, Macrina and her brothers Basil and Gregory, and Chrysostom and his teacher Diodore, shared an important belief (you might be surprised) around which the story revolves and climaxes.

Except for the Bible and C.S. Lewis' The Last Battle, I've never read a more powerful last two to three pages of a book. In the end, for the fallen protagonist Adam, 'everywhere there seems to be light,' because of the actions of another character named Joshua."

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I'm going to have to read that! - Madeleine L'Engle's Arm of the Starfish  :thumbsup:

..and maybe C.S. Lewis' The Last Battle