Hi! All, I love ya
I'm back, after a long period of meditation, hoping to contribute something of value to all.
"But as for you, Daniel,
CONCEAL these words and
SEAL UP the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."(Dan.12:4).
This is the topic I wish to bring up for discussion. Hundreds of denominations, sects, cults and fringe elements under the umbrella of Christianity are running back and forth in search of the truth to this very day, us included, and not finding it. And knowledge is increasing to the point where man now sits on the moon, and we can communicate by means of this singular invention, the internet. This part of the prophesy is established but what about the specific command from Almighty God Himself to
conceal the words and
seal up the Book?
Does what God has to say not matter? How does it stand up to the following fact?
"I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?" And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it. Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it ....and one of the elders *said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that Is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals."(Rev.5:1-5). The root of David is of course our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
I have changed the colour to red for emphasis only.
:Egyptdance2::ty: :egyptdance:
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy (UK).
Running back and forth and having an increase of knowledge goo hand in hand and are part of the method spoken of by Isaiah in chapter 28 as "here a little and there a little" .
Jesus spoke of some of us gaining knowledge in this manner in the following verse.
Matthew 13:52
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
Blessings
What you're saying is an assumption. Jesus always quoted the Scripture when it referred to something said by a prophet and there is no mention of Isaiah in the dialogue of Dan.12:4. We must keep strictly to the words in the Scriptures.
And you have not addressed the main point raised. The words in the Book are concealed and the Book itself is sealed and no one in heaven, in or under the earth is able to open or look into it other than the Lion of Judah - Jesus Christ.
Love in Christ
Roy
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 08, 2009, 02:36:06 PM
What you're saying is an assumption. Jesus always quoted the Scripture when it referred to something said by a prophet and there is no mention of Isaiah in the dialogue of Dan.12:4. We must keep strictly to the words in the Scriptures.
And you have not addressed the main point raised. The words in the Book are concealed and the Book itself is sealed and no one in heaven, in or under the earth is able to open or look into it other than the Lion of Judah - Jesus Christ.
Love in Christ
Roy
LOL........ you sound like a "any verse out of context is pretext" kinda guy
Until the method taught by Isaiah in chapter 28 as well as by Jesus and the Apostles for applying God's Laws to God's Word for determining spiritual wisdom are understood things will continue to remain concealed to God's children.......... as they apparently have been to you
Blessings
Doug
Dear Doug
I get your point.
All through the generations from Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself one thing stands out very clearly and that is:-
"Trust in the Lord with your whole heart and do not lean on your own understanding" (Pro.3:5). Leaning on your own understanding by my way of thinking is relying on your intellect. But man's intellect we are told is enmity toward God, ""...because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so." (Rom.8:7)..
Is not studying something to do with the'intellect' and as such the physical world and 'trust in the Lord' to do with the spiritual realm, as demonstrated by Joshua, Caleb and our Lord Jesus Christ Himself? None of them did anything under their own initiative. So how does studying (intellect) equate with the Scritures here?
If you learned gentlemen and children of God are so sure of yourselves then I must be doing wrong by trying to follow Our Lord Jesus Christ's set example of exercising HUMILITY - OBEDIENCE - SUBMISSION TO THE FATHER's WILL as a matter of prime importance, "THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME (IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME) TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.' "(Heb.10:6) and "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just,because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." ( Jn.5:30). These are the Father's Laws or Jesus would not have followed them so rigidly.
And when you imply, by quoting (Isa.28:9-13), that I'm falling backward and being taken captive and as such not a child of God. Just think, is HUMILITY your strong point brother?
Love
Roy (UK)
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 09, 2009, 03:23:03 PM
"Trust in the Lord with your whole heart and do not lean on your own understanding" (Pro.3:5). Leaning on your own understanding by my way of thinking is relying on your intellect. But man's intellect we are told is enmity toward God, ""...because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so." (Rom.8:7)..
And this verse command you to use your intelect.....
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
QuoteBut man's intellect we are told is enmity toward God,
I agree and that is why God gave us laws on how to come to understanding the spiritual aspect of God and His Word whom are both spirit.......... Only now in these latter days as said by Daniel are just a few people learning how to apply those laws that lawfully remove verses from context going "here and there" aka "to and fro" reassembling them line line upon line in accordance to precept (law) upon law (precept).
This why Paul said that the law is a schoolteacher to bring us to Christ......... one cannot come to be Christ without the knowledge of Christ........... For sure the Holy Spirt can allow us to hear the things we need to hear but we also hear from the enemy and through what I have just shared can one definitely determine the origin of the voice we hear........ whether it is of God or a ministering spirit transformed to appear and sound that it is from God such as how ET and raptures along with pearly gates gained so much momentum within the church
If the church had been doing this "to and fro" all along the doctrine of ET would have never come to be
I hope that helps
Blessings
Doug
Sorry Whitewings
Which Bible are you quoting 2 Tim.2:15 from? I guess it is the KJV. The word also appears in (Ezra 7:10) and (Ps.11:2) but if you will please take the trouble to check the little number accompanying the word 'study' in the text you'll find that it's not in the original Scriptures and has been incorrectly used in all cases.
The words that should be used are examine, check out, inspect, look over carefully, observe, be diligent etc. just as in (1Thess.5:21) and as the Bereans did in (Acts 17:11) but certainly not study. I think the KJV is the only version that still uses the word 'study' and a lot more such as 'HELL' which I do believe you disagree with, as I do.
In my Bible it correctly says, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth." (2Tim.2:15).
Love
Roy
I check about 40 Bibles and 4 non KJV version use study.
I agree with that.
But for me that doesn't remove the intention of studying.
The verse commands that we try to be/get approved in the eyes of God.
But to do the will of God we have to know the will of God. And imo we can only understand/know that will by studying.
Just looking at a closed Bible won't do. For me reading and re-reading again and again, cross referencing verses, checking the meaning of words etc is studying.....
Quote from: Livelystone on June 09, 2009, 05:06:13 PM
QuoteBut man's intellect we are told is enmity toward God,
I agree and that is why God gave us laws on how to come to understanding the spiritual aspect of God and His Word whom are both spirit.......... Only now in these latter days as said by Daniel are just a few people learning how to apply those laws that lawfully remove verses from context going "here and there" aka "to and fro" reassembling them line line upon line in accordance to precept (law) upon law (precept).
This why Paul said that the law is a schoolteacher to bring us to Christ......... one cannot come to be Christ without the knowledge of Christ........... For sure the Holy Spirt can allow us to hear the things we need to hear but we also hear from the enemy and through what I have just shared can one definitely determine the origin of the voice we hear........ whether it is of God or a ministering spirit transformed to appear and sound that it is from God such as how ET and raptures along with pearly gates gained so much momentum within the church
If the church had been doing this "to and fro" all along the doctrine of ET would have never come to be
I hope that helps
Blessings
Doug
:cloud9: There is such life in these statements. And what hit me as I read this, is this is why also that Satan is said to walk to and fro in the earth (the letter is as the creation also), but because he is not of the right Spirit with it (his motive is to kill, steal, and destroy) he distorts it, and is incapable of "seeing" the precepts. :thumbsup: Blessings...
I agree and that is why God gave us laws on how to come to understanding the spiritual aspect of God and His Word whom are both spirit..........
Your quote
I agree Doug.
But our Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated His Father's law for us, and that was Humility, Obedience and Submissivenes to His will by reducing Himself to a mere human being. "THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME (IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME) TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.' "(Heb.10:6). If we abide by that, He has promised, "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him..........But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful." (Jn.14:18-21,26-27). This also is Spirit and if we have this we also have His peace and need not be troubled or fearful of any other spirit misleading us.
Love
Roy (UK)
Brother Whitewings
I never said don't read your Bible. I am 89 years old and I have read the Old and New Testaments possibly a thousand or more times cover to cover over and over again but I have never studied it. By study I mean a deep study. A certain amount of intellect is necessary in order to read it, that is of course accepted. The Bible is God's Holy Word and belongs in God's realm. Man's intellect belongs in the natural world. The two worlds are wide apart as God says through Isaiah. "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts." (Isa.55:8-9) and enmity to one another, "...because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so." (Rom.8:7).
Why did God command Moses to remove the sandals from of his feet before he stepped on to His holy mountain? Was it because of a mark of respect only or was there some higher purpose?
What did Moses a highly intellectual man, brought up and educated in two vastly different religions and cultures, carry in those sandals other than his physical body? Was it not his most treasured possession - intellect - with all that abundance of preconceived ideas and values? Without this he would be reduced to the intellectual level of a mere child. Is that not what God expected of him? Jesus said, if you recall, "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all." [color]..(Luke 18:17).
Love
Roy (UK)
Dear Cardinal
I don't quite follow what you are driving at here. I would be oblidged if you would rephrase your statement a bit more clearly so I can understand it.
Is it just a passing observation or is it directed at someone specifically, me for example?
Love
Roy (UK)
Livelystone
Can you tell me why God commanded his words to be concealed and the Book closed?
Love
Roy (UK)
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 09, 2009, 10:11:44 PM
Livelystone
Can you tell me why God commanded his words to be concealed and the Book closed?
Love
Roy (UK)
Simply put and without having to be assumed because there were certain persons whom would reveal the truth unto others and that revelation would not come until that period of time that Jesus spoke of as "in the third day" that corresponds with the 7th day of when God rested from His work !!!.......... everything points to the 7th day from creation that is a time that is now upon us.
Paul spoke of those things sealed up as "mysteries" and used the term of himself and others spoken in the phrase "born out of due time" that translated means born early before the the time of the expected birth because Paul knew that he and the few others like him were a prophecy of a ministry whose time had not yet come at the time he penned that statement.
However that time is now and those with the Spirit of Christ Jesus within them that is the spirit of prophecy and whom understand the spiritual aspect of the law are the ones "of the church" are revealing to the world what has been sealed up for all these years.
Paul said so in the following verse
Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Blessings to you Roy
Doug
1I WAITED patiently and expectantly for the Lord; and He inclined to me and heard my cry.
2He drew me up out of a horrible pit [a pit of tumult and of destruction], out of the miry clay (froth and slime), and set my feet upon a rock, steadying my steps and establishing my goings.
3And He has put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God. Many shall see and fear (revere and worship) and put their trust and confident reliance in the Lord.
4Blessed (happy, fortunate, to be envied) is the man who makes the Lord his refuge and trust, and turns not to the proud or to followers of false gods.
5Many, O Lord my God, are the wonderful works which You have done, and Your thoughts toward us; no one can compare with You! If I should declare and speak of them, they are too many to be numbered.
6Sacrifice and offering You do not desire, nor have You delight in them; You have given me the capacity to hear and obey [Your law, a more valuable service than] burnt offerings and sin offerings [which] You do not require.
7Then said I, Behold, I come; in the volume of the book it is written of me;
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God; yes, Your law is within my heart.
--Psa 40
8When He said just before, You have neither desired, nor have You taken delight in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings--all of which are offered according to the Law--
9He then went on to say, Behold, [here] I am, coming to do Your will. Thus He does away with and annuls the first (former) order [as a means of expiating sin] so that He might inaugurate and establish the second (latter) order.
10And in accordance with this will [of God], we have been made holy (consecrated and sanctified) through the offering made once for all of the body of Jesus Christ (the Anointed One).
--Hebrews 10
9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
--2 Cor 3
...Behold, I come; in the volume of the book it is written of me;
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God; yes, Your law is within my heart.
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 09, 2009, 09:54:31 PM
Dear Cardinal
I don't quite follow what you are driving at here. I would be oblidged if you would rephrase your statement a bit more clearly so I can understand it.
Is it just a passing observation or is it directed at someone specifically, me for example?
Love
Roy (UK)
:cloud9: Hi Roy.......it was a passing observation about the law and the scripture the Lord quickened to me about Satan when I read it. It had NOTHING to do with you or anybody else. Sorry if it looked that way. Blessings....
Thank you Cardinal
It is gracious of you.
Love
Roy
Forgive my ignorance brother Livelystone but I don't know how to add a quote from your response to my reply so I'll just paste it here: " Jesus spoke of as "in the third day" that corresponds with the 7th day of when God rested from His work !!!.......... everything points to the 7th day from creation that is a time that is now upon us." And: "Paul spoke of those things sealed up as "mysteries" and used the term of himself and others spoken in the phrase "born out of due time" that translated means born early before the the time of the expected birth because Paul knew that he and the few others like him were a prophecy of a ministry whose time had not yet come at the time he penned that statement."
"In the third day that corresponds with the 7th day" Is that not an assuption on your part, where is the Scripture to verify this? And "born out of due time translated means early before the the time of the expected birth because Paul knew that he and the few others like him were a prophecy of a ministry whose time had not yet come at the time he penned that statement." Is this not reading something into the Scripture that isn't there?
Love
Roy (UK)
Hi Roy
It has been so long since I have written on the "days" so someone else here may be a better source for explaining it
Basically a day is a thousand years and vice versa and by Biblical dating we have now gone through about 6000 years (same as 6 days) since the story of Adam and Eve......... something like 2500 years to Moses, 1500 until Christ and 2000 since Christ......... on the seventh day God rested and His Work is complete. His complete work is what He stated would come to be when man is not just in the image of God but also in the likeness too (Ge.1: 26) is fulfilled ........ Man in the image and likeness of God is Jesus Christ who is the first of many.
Jesus said that in three days he would rebuild the temple and the only temple that Jesus is concerned of is the Temple of the Body that He is the Head of that until the "individual members" are the same as the head "Jesus the "temple that includes His Body" is not complete"
We have gone through the two days that He does cures in and now that we have entered into the period of the third day when the temple (us) "will be complete" (depending on the starting date) or are right at the dawn of it so consequently we are seeing the increase of knowledge that it will take to fulfill Hebrews 1-3 (and spoken of in the verse you quoted from Daniel) necessary before one is moved forward by God into perfection as spoken of in the third verse.
Is there any perfection found in anything less than Jesus who is the pattern son whom we are to be in both the image and likeness of?........ no there is not until Christ be formed in us as the day star that rises from within us from the seed that is Christ given unto us through our Pentecostal experience (being baptized in the Holy Spirit) that is the start of our journey from seed to fruit bearing tree so that the body (us) is no different than the head (Jesus).
Are you understanding what I am saying?......... I am a slow typer but if I am getting to far ahead of what you currently "see" in God's purpose and plan for man then I need to back track some.......
Blessings
Doug
BTW Roy you can make simple quotes just by first copy and paste the section you want as you are already doing and then highlight it followed by clicking the quote button second from the right on the bottom line of control buttons. :thumbsup:
Sister Molly
The Scriptures you quote emphasise my point: "Trust in the Lord with your whole heart and do not lean on your own understanding" . Our Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated the Father's requirements: HUMILITY - OBEDIENCE - SUBMISSIVENESS TO THE FATHER's WILL. (Heb.10:6).
Further to that I cannot see any useful purpose being served in the unnecessary probing into the Scriptures. God's assurance should be enough and His warnings heeded:"These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." (1Jn.2:26-27). We'd do well to take heed of what we read.
His assurance of our salvation if we abide by His rules should be sufficient for anyone: "...seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you." (2Pet.1:3-11)
The message seems clear. Live your life in accord with the law that our Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated, and what the Father expects of you, and you have no need to worry about mysteries being revealed and who is and who isn't a child of God. We are all His children, remember, and He will bring us all, regardless, into His kingdom in His good pleasure.
"For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers." (1Tim.4:10)
We must constantly bear in mind that His thoughts and ways are not the same as ours, and that what He says will be: "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways," declares the Lord. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return there without watering the earth and making it bear and sprout, and furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; it will not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. (Isa.55:8-11).
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance." (Isa.45:22-23).
The main ingredient is LOVE all else fades into insignificance: "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love." (1Cor.13:12-13)
Love
Roy (UK)
:cloud9: This is what He's shown me regarding the days, too, Doug. :thumbsup: Blessings....
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 10, 2009, 04:59:48 PM
Further to that I cannot see any useful purpose being served in the unnecessary probing into the Scriptures.
:cloud9: Hi Roy......I don't want to discourage you in any way, but this time I am addressing something you said here. There is GREAT benefit in probing into the scriptures, as, the words of the Word, and even the individual letters have meanings that the translator's for all their good intentions missed and therefore do not line up with God's actual thought on the subject.
In addition to that, there is a richness of meaning in the Hebrew language especially, that just is not possible in any other language, because of it's origin. And if only for that reason alone, it bears intense scrutiny so that thoughts contained in these "little pictures" He has painted for us, can be followed thru to see more clearly where they have their place in the NT (more imperfect as far as fullness of expression), Greek.
NOT doing this, has led to many errors in doctrine already, and almost a complete lack of understanding of references pertinent to Jewish feasts, ect. in the NT, which we need to fully see the types and shadows come to life. Blessings to you....
QuoteFurther to that I cannot see any useful purpose being served in the unnecessary probing into the Scriptures. God's assurance should be enough and His warnings heeded
Amen His warnings should be sufficient and not only that His commandments are just that........... commandments
Jeremiah 9:20
Yet hear the word of the LORD, O ye women, and let your ear receive the word of his mouth, and teach your daughters wailing, and every one her neighbour lamentation.
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.And because you speak of love in all your posts..............
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
And about those warnings
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy child.
Have I made myself very clear Roy?........ I want you to understand that not only does not seeking the truth of the mysteries lead to apostasy it has been the lack of knowledge that has caused the Glory of God to depart from the church
Finally and getting back to love and what Jesus said about it that I quoted above.......
QuoteHe that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me
It is very simple to see that those who do keep His commandments and do not search out the Word to show themselves approved before God are not only not approved.......... they really do not love Him as they think that they do.. :winkgrin:
So Roy would you agree that if we do have to make this point again we can continue to move forward together in obedience to God while learning knowledge and uncovering the mysteries?
Blessings
Doug
Brother Doug.
I get the gist of what you are saying (2Pet.3:8) and I am aware that Jesus was referring to His body when He spoke about raising the temple in three days. But what has all this probing to do with the ultimate goal we seek - salvation?
If we keep to the Father's rules, requirements, as our Lord demonstrated and live our lives in accord with them - Humility, Obedience and Total Submission to the will of the Father that's all He requires of us: "...seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you." [/b][/u] ((2Pet.1:3-11)
If your life complies with these essential qualities and you persevere in them what purpose can be served by delving further? These qualities are of the Spirit, so there is no danger of being prompted by any other spirit.
The original Apostles possessed these qualities and they did no deep studying of the Scriptures so why is it necessary today? During their day it was a common occurrence for the sick to be healed, the lepers cleansed, demons cast out and the dead raised. We don't see that happening today. Why?
The hidden mysteries were revealed by Our Lord to His disciples - chosen children of God - and they worked those wonders then on a daily basis, why not now two thousand years on by the few claiming to be God's children granted an insight into the mysteries they studied so hard to achieve? It is the same Spirit but followed by no miracles. Why?
These are potent questions that need answes, brother.
Trust in the Lord and not in your intellect is the only answer. Christianity went wrong when intellect replaced the Holy Spirit of Life - Jesus Christ.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteIt is the same Spirit but followed by no miracles. Why?
Harmony with God along with knowledge of and obedience to our Father my Dear Brother is the key to when God chooses to work His miracles through His chosen. When they are all present there are still lots of miracles................. it is just that Jesus said to go and tell no man that we don't see some of them written about on this thread. :thumbsup:
Blessings
Doug
NOT doing this, has led to many errors in doctrine already, and almost a complete lack of understanding of references pertinent to Jewish feasts, ect. in the NT, which we need to fully see the types and shadows come to life. Blessings to you....
Hi Cardinal
I'd be more inclined to lean the other way and suggest that it is due to man's persistence in trying to unravel the mysteries using his intellect that has caused the enormous amount of errors resulting in dozens, possibly hundreds, of divisions, such as - Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal, Methodist, Lutherism, JWs, Mormons, Moonies, Spiritists etc. etc. all taking cover under the umbrella of Christianity. Intellect is for going to the moon and has no place in God's realm as Moses found out at the foot of God's Holy Mountain. "Then He said, "Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground." He said also, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God." (Ex.3:1-6).
And what Joshua reaped his reward for: "Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, of those who had spied out the land, tore their clothes; and they spoke to all the congregation of the sons of Israel, saying, "The land which we passed through to spy out is an exceedingly good land. "If the LORD is pleased with us, then He will bring us into this land and give it to us—a land which flows with milk and honey. "Only do not rebel against the LORD; and do not fear the people of the land, for they will be our prey. Their protection has been removed from them, and the LORD is with us; do not fear them." But all the congregation said to stone them with stones. Then the glory of the LORD appeared in the tent of meeting to all the sons of Israel." (Num.14:6-10), after which Israel enjoyed a long period of peace till the last of the elders had died of.
The original disciples did in accord to the will of God not their own understanding - Intellect -and the Holy Spirit was within them working signs wonders and miracles. When man started using his own understanding - Intellect - following in Israel's ways within the first century of our Lord's departure the Holy Spirit left, it's as simple as that. NO Holy Spirit no MIRACLES.
Love
Roy (UK)
"But as for you, Daniel, CONCEAL these words and SEAL UP the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."(Dan.12:4)
"And thou, O Daniel, hide the things, and seal the book till the time of the end, many do go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied." (Dan.12:4, YLT)
"Hide the 'dabar' and seal the book" is, "Till the end of time" or, "till the time of the end" (KJV). Take that with what Jesus says of Himself: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." (Rv 22:13, AV) As far as words on paper, Daniel's "the time of the end" and Jesus' "I am...the end" are the same. Has the time of Jesus already come upon us? There is something, mentioned for instance in the book of Revelation, called, "The Time." While we are in this, from the time the indwelling of the Holy Spirit began to be revealed to us we began to be aware of it. We may not have develped that awareness very much; but, we can and some have.
I believe there are levels of opening. The "Equadistant Letter Sequencing Code" or "The Bible Code" is one very real opening of the book. To me this is something like a sign proving the world itself is entering into "The Time." Researchers are convinced there is another code, or even several, that can interact with the ELS Code and open it farther. Gematria, known for millennia, reveals real patterning but hasn't been made to work with the ELS Code yet. I do believe I recognize certain raised awareness of what is written among the holy people. They are getting rid of barriers of false teachings that have been and still are preventing many from entering on into understanding what is in the Book.
Thank you for the info Doug. :hithere: and :ty:
Love
Roy (UK)
Quote
Jeremiah 9:20
Yet hear the word of the LORD, O ye women, and let your ear receive the word of his mouth, and teach your daughters wailing, and every one her neighbour lamentation.
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Dear Doug
I will have to answer this posting from you in several sections as you pose a few questions.
The first one being, the quote above. I see no connection between this and what I've been saying. The Scriptures that I quote, I do believe, are the word of God and that is what I live by. As Jesus so often said nothing that I have said is of my own initiative.
So what is the purpose of that quote? Please explain!
Love
Roy (UK)
Brother Roy
"Every word" means just that and being as that is a commandment it needs to be followed...... according to law no witness is allowed to remain silent and that means simply stated means that all verses that have to do with knowledge need to be considered and compared for relevance to the statement that you made as to why we should not endeavor to search the mysteries.
The manner that I placed those verses before you was exactly in the manner of Isa. 28 that I spoke of in my first response concerning 1. line upon line 2. precept upon precept ( such as the law I just mentioned that requires every verse pertaining to the subject be considered...... this is part of what guides us towards truth and away from false doctrines). 3. "Here a little and there a little" aka "to and fro" as well as out of" old and new" throughout the Bible that is a mean to an end of how our knowledge is to be obtained and increased in these end times.
Hope that helps
Blessings
Doug
PS....... what does "UK" stand for? your place of residence such as United Kingdom or Union Kentucky?
QuoteJohn 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Hi Doug.
Now to the second section. For a start I do not accept the use of that word study in your quote it is not in the original Scriptures. The KJV is full of erroneous words. Hell is also used quite a lot, I don't suppose you would accept that so why study? Is it because it suits your purpose better? Examine, search and such are more appropriate.
Next, you wouldn't by any chance be inferring that I don't keep His commandments and as such I don't love Him and He wouldn't manifest Himself to me, would you? Does He manifest Himself to you only?
Indeed I quote love a lot because I love a lot and believe that LOVE is God. "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him." (1Jn.4:7-9).
If that is so, forgive me for saying this, brother, let us not be carried away by our self-righteousness it is not of God.
Love
Roy (UK)
FYI I use the AKJ because that is the Bible that He told me to use but it really does not matter :sigh:
As far as I am concerned you are out of line with both me and the scriptures......... maybe somebody else would like to work with you :dontknow:
Blessings
Doug
QuoteHosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy child.
Have I made myself very clear Roy?........ I want you to understand that not only does not seeking the truth of the mysteries lead to apostasy it has been the lack of knowledge that has caused the Glory of God to depart from the church
Dear Doug.
This is the third part of your posting. Again you assume that I have rejected knowledge and as a result suffer from a lack of it. You certainly are one for assuming things, aren't you? What gives you that right? Could it be a self-righteous attitude like the Pharisees of old, I hope not?
"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." (Matt.7:1-2).
In what way are you making yourself clear to me? I seek the TRUTH and I put my trust for it in my Teacher who is God, not man. Can God lead me into apostasy, I wonder? That's a new one on me. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. (Jn.14:26-27) and "As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and
and you have no need for anyone to to teach you.just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." (1Jn,2:27)
I see no mention of man in any of those two Scriptures, can you? Moreover did you get that last bit highlighted and underlined?
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteIt is very simple to see that those who do keep His commandments and do not search out the Word to show themselves approved before God are not only not approved.......... they really do not love Him as they think that they do..
So Roy would you agree that if we do have to make this point again we can continue to move forward together in obedience to God while learning knowledge and uncovering the mysteries?
Hi Doug
Now finally you, my brother, are talking my language. It is indeed very simple to see that those who do not search out His word are not approved, but the mere fact that we quote His word in all dialogue proves that we do search it out and that we do love Him and keep His commandments.
Yes I agree! Humility, Obedience and Total Submission to the will of the Father. But we don't have to probe for it, He will supply it. "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!! (Matt.7:7-11).
Love
Roy (UK)
Quote"Every word" means just that and being as that is a commandment it needs to be followed...... according to law no witness is allowed to remain silent and that means simply stated means that all verses that have to do with knowledge need to be considered and compared for relevance to the statement that you made as to why we should not endeavor to search the mysteries"
Brother Doug
I have no argument against that. The Scriptures are Holy and they have to be respected as such, full stop. To me the Holy Bible is a Holy
History Book and a Holy
Reference Book but not a STUDY book to be pried into. If we want to know anything we must humbly ask and it will be given. Yes I agree we must search the Scriptures for what we are looking for and then, as we normally do in physical life, politely - ASK. It is a treasure house of untold wealth which one sells all to buy, and when he has bought it he seaches for what he wants and then politely asks for it, and it will be given - not if we make an unruly grab for it.
I humbly follow my Lord Jesus Christ's example of HUMILITY, OBEDIENCE and SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF GOD. (Heb.10:5-7) And He is supplying all that I need and I pray some drops on fertile ground here.
Love
Roy (UK)
PS. UK stands for United Kingdom. And I put that in as there are Roys in all countries. There are plenty of them in the UK as well so I'll have to put a tag on it as and when the need arises.
QuoteWhen they are all present there are still lots of miracles................. it is just that Jesus said to go and tell no man that we don't see some of them written about on this thread.
Brother Doug.
If you recall, the person He told to tell no man, blabbered his head off almost immediately. And when the Apostles and disciples worked those miracles virtually on a daily basis they didn't tell those they healed, cleansed and raised from the dead to tell no man, that is how those works come to be recorded in our Holy Referebce Book, the Bible, today. These miracles were worked specifically for the Jews so they would believe: "And He answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them." (Luke 7:22).
"And answering him, Jesus said, "What do you want Me to do for you?" And the blind man said to Him, "Rabboni, I want to regain my sight!" And Jesus said to him, "Go; your faith has made you well." Immediately he regained his sight and began following Him on the road." (Mark 10:51-52).
In the face of these two Scriptures and more, your deduction does not hold water, brother. All the healings were done in full public view so the recipients had no cause to keep quiet.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteI believe there are levels of opening. The "Equadistant Letter Sequencing Code" or "The Bible Code" is one very real opening of the book. To me this is something like a sign proving the world itself is entering into "The Time." Researchers are convinced there is another code, or even several, that can interact with the ELS Code and open it farther. Gematria, known for millennia, reveals real patterning but hasn't been made to work with the ELS Code yet. I do believe I recognize certain raised awareness of what is written among the holy people. They are getting rid of barriers of false teachings that have been and still are preventing many from entering on into understanding what is in the Book
Brother reFORMer
Forgive my ignorance, but I have not a clue as to what all that means. I keep strictly to God's Holy Word and any such thing as "The Bible code, Gematria and ELS code" are Intellect driven assumptions and as such, I regret to say, I confine them to the dust bin.
Sorry for being so blunt, believe me no offense is intended, it's just that I have no time to spend of such speculations.
Love
Roy (UK)
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 11, 2009, 06:00:59 PM
QuoteWhen they are all present there are still lots of miracles................. it is just that Jesus said to go and tell no man that we don't see some of them written about on this thread.
Brother Doug.
If you recall, the person He told to tell no man, blabbered his head off almost immediately. And when the Apostles and disciples worked those miracles virtually on a daily basis they didn't tell those they healed, cleansed and raised from the dead to tell no man, that is how those works come to be recorded in our Holy Referebce Book, the Bible, today. These miracles were worked specifically for the Jews so they would believe: "And He answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them." (Luke 7:22).
"And answering him, Jesus said, "What do you want Me to do for you?" And the blind man said to Him, "Rabboni, I want to regain my sight!" And Jesus said to him, "Go; your faith has made you well." Immediately he regained his sight and began following Him on the road." (Mark 10:51-52).
In the face of these two Scriptures and more, your deduction does not hold water, brother. All the healings were done in full public view so the recipients had no cause to keep quiet.
Love
Roy (UK)
You just do not get it :sigh:
Did Jesus go around bragging of miracles ?......... did the apostles?.......... no they did not and neither will those who God chooses to work through today.
Scammers yes but the true person of God is humble and recognizes that it is God working and not them
I know people who have seen the dead raised and healings that could not be done by man but they have yet to ever go and tell people that they have seen these works through THEIR hands
On the other hand you say that you do not know of these miralcles or where they take place
Well did you ever stop and wonder why that is so..................... here is your answer because birds of the same feather........
Luke 13: 18Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?
19It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.
Blessings
Doug
Quote from: reFORMer on June 10, 2009, 07:31:02 PM
I believe there are levels of opening. The "Equadistant Letter Sequencing Code" or "The Bible Code" is one very real opening of the book. To me this is something like a sign proving the world itself is entering into "The Time." Researchers are convinced there is another code, or even several, that can interact with the ELS Code and open it farther. Gematria, known for millennia, reveals real patterning but hasn't been made to work with the ELS Code yet. I do believe I recognize certain raised awareness of what is written among the holy people. They are getting rid of barriers of false teachings that have been and still are preventing many from entering on into understanding what is in the Book.
:cloud9: Amen, it is fascinating and HOLY what is being discovered. Blessings.....
QuoteThe manner that I placed those verses before you was exactly in the manner of Isa. 28 that I spoke of in my first response concerning 1. line upon line 2. precept upon precept ( such as the law I just mentioned that requires every verse pertaining to the subject be considered...... this is part of what guides us towards truth and away from false doctrines). 3. "Here a little and there a little" aka "to and fro" as well as out of" old and new" throughout the Bible that is a mean to an end of how our knowledge is to be obtained and increased in these end times.
Brother Doug.
I have never disagreed with the Scriptures you quoted, now have I? It is the intellectual interpretation of it that I disagree with. "To whom would He teach knowledge, and to whom would He interpret the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just taken from the breast? "For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, a little here, a little there.' " Indeed, He will speak to this people through stammering lips and a foreign tongue, He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen. So the word of the Lord to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line, a little here, a little there,"
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive." (Isa.28:9-13).
This is God's Holy Word and it is exactly that for me. But who does it apply to? Once again you assume it applies to me and not you. Can you be absolutely sure of that? Because I have my doubts.
Revelation (5:1) I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. .
The Book has been sealed with seven seals; signs, symbols, metaphors, parables, allegories, examples and visions, all topped with a libral measure of a deluding spirit:"For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Chrrist. (2 Thess.2:3-14).
Now ask yourself who approaches it like a child: "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all." (Luke 18:17), and who doesn't: "The heart is more deceitful than all else, and is desperately sick who can understand it?" (Jer.17:9), because "...because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so." (Rom.8:7). Which means that, "There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." (Pro.14:12 & 16:25.
Love :Peace:
Roy (UK)
Quote from: RoyThe Book has been sealed with seven seals; signs, symbols, metaphors, parables, allegories, examples and visions, all topped with a libral measure of a deluding spirit:"
Yes, it's a sealed book--which is why at some point we have to start all over again and learn directly from Him through the eyes of a little child--born again--born from above--because we find out that everything we ever knew was wrong. (I'm agreeing with you, in other words.)
Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
QuoteWell did you ever stop and wonder why that is so..................... here is your answer because birds of the same feather........
Luke 13: 18Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it?
19It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it
.
Brother Doug
I gather from the above qoute that you are getting angy and starting to throw trees and birds at me. Don't do that, brother, trees are heavy and birds peck something awful.
But I have just read your response to my reference to the Book sealed with seven seals, and how lovely it is to see you not angry and agreeing that we have to divest ourselves of all our preconceived ideas and values and start as truly Born Again little children of God. That is exactly my point, brother, so please don't get angry with me, as anger is not good and not of God. I am only expressing what the Word of God is saying to me and what I have been trying to put across.
Not very successfully I gather with having birds and trees thrown at me, that's naughty!
By Born Again I don't mean the deplorable exhibitions we see at Evangelical meetings and from podiums where after a parrot fashion recital of some concocted sinners prayer the person is reckoned as saved - born again irrespective of the fact that they are living with someone else's wife or husband or some such scandalous behaviour......idiotic rubbish.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteDid Jesus go around bragging of miracles ?......... did the apostles?.......... no they did not and neither will those who God chooses to work through today.
Scammers yes but the true person of God is humble and recognizes that it is God working and not them
I know people who have seen the dead raised and healings that could not be done by man but they have yet to ever go and tell people that they have seen these works through THEIR hands
On the other hand you say that you do not know of these miralcles or where they take place
Sorry brother Doug.
But I'm having to answer your post in several separate small posts.
I woudn't dare say that my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ went round bragging and boasting. And I didn't, now did I? So why say it? I said He did everything in open public view and the record is of healings and miracles that occurred during our Lord's and the Apostles' life time, there is a big difference between the two statements.
On the other hand I have to be quite honest and say that I have not seen anyone raise the dead or permanently heal the cronically sick. You are indeed blessed in that respect, but I live a very secluded life style and don't have the opportunity to see such marvels being incapacitated and housebound. I am aware of the money grabbing scandalous perfomances of the Benny Hinn culture that is presently rife, but that doesn't impress me one bit. I am not alone, God is my life, if you follow what I mean: "Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me." (Jn. 16:32)
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteYes, it's a sealed book--which is why at some point we have to start all over again and learn directly from Him through the eyes of a little child--born again--born from above--because we find out that everything we ever knew was wrong. (I'm agreeing with you, in other words.)
Thank you Molly bless you.
It is so very difficult to put these things in words, I just pray when I sit down to answer the posts that not my hand but His mighty hand will take over the key board and convey the message. It has to be left to the Spirit, man alone cannot and will not be able to do it.
Molly, from what I gather from your posts you have read and reread the Holy Scriptures several times over like I have, so I'd like to ask you if you'd do me a favour and try my new posting titled "The River of Life."
Love
Roy (UK)
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 11, 2009, 11:06:01 PM
QuoteDid Jesus go around bragging of miracles ?......... did the apostles?.......... no they did not and neither will those who God chooses to work through today.
Scammers yes but the true person of God is humble and recognizes that it is God working and not them
I know people who have seen the dead raised and healings that could not be done by man but they have yet to ever go and tell people that they have seen these works through THEIR hands
On the other hand you say that you do not know of these miralcles or where they take place
Sorry brother Doug.
But I'm having to answer your post in several separate small posts.
I woudn't dare say that my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ went round bragging and boasting. And I didn't, now did I? So why say it? I said He did everything in open public view and the record is of healings and miracles that occurred during our Lord's and the Apostles' life time, there is a big difference between the two statements.
On the other hand I have to be quite honest and say that I have not seen anyone raise the dead or permanently heal the cronically sick. You are indeed blessed in that respect, but I live a very secluded life style and don't have the opportunity to see such marvels being incapacitated and housebound. I am aware of the money grabbing scandalous perfomances of the Benny Hinn culture that is presently rife, but that doesn't impress me one bit. I am not alone, God is my life, if you follow what I mean: "Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me." (Jn. 16:32)
Love
Roy (UK)
:cloud9: Hi Roy.......brother, I have been to 6 Benny Hinn crusades at the LORD's direction for various reasons both to give and to receive (I was healed at one), and while it is arguably no better or no worse than most of what you see in churchianity, one fact remains; you get 20,000 - 200,000 people in one spot praying and asking for the Lord to move, and I guarantee you, HE HEARD THAT (united) PRAYER. Blessings....
Actually, brother Roy, the only money grubbers are the ones who told you that about Benny. I've experienced the lightnings of God several times through Benny's television broadcast (a most satisfactory and cleansing series of multiple experiences, I should say!!), and had a much, much richer prayer anointing after leaving one of his miracle crusades in my area. I even found fasting to be much easier for a season after that. Of course I'd differ with him theologically on quite a few matters as a Universalist, Postmillenialist, and a few other things I cherish and nourish my spirit on from the Written Word. You don't have to agree with half of what anyone believes to spend enough time in fasting and prayer until you perceive the grace of God at work in someone either with them personally or their ministry. Biblically, if he were an enemy of the Cross of Christ, that would have increased rather than diminished your spiritual responsibilities towards him. And those wouldn't include risking crossing the line in touching God's anointed. David repented of having cut Saul's garment simply because he had been God's anointed even though he wasn't any longer. Better to give the wrong man a break than to break the wrong man.
Brother Martin
I get your point brother and I apologize for my judgmental attitude but it was simply based on an interview I saw him give on TV. He was sat at a table while someone was giving him a run-down on the latest donations being received. The whole interview centred on the money coming in and I mean it was in the thousands of dollars in some cases.
When he was questioned about the lavish mansion he was building and who was going to live in it, he remarked "My family and I will be keeping it warm for when our big brother, Jesus comes." How sick can that be? I nearly spewed, believe me. And then waving his coat and saying receive the Holy Spirit from the podium as some in the audience fell on their backs in hysteria. The only reference I can find in my Bible of someone falling on their back at the presence of the Holy Spirit was poor old Eli who - DIED. The rest of the encounters with the Holy Spirit caused people to fall flat of their faces, regardless of damaging their fine looks.
If I'm wrong then I sincerely apologize and ask God to forgive my judgmental attitude. I have seen on TV people arguably cured but the same people when interviewed months later were found to be no better than they were before being, so-called, cured.
But this is moving into a direction of personal opinions right or wrong and one I don't wish to be involved in because as far as I'm concerned we are all brothers in Christ Jesus and as such we will all eventuially end up in the same place: "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, and all who were angry at Him will be put to shame." (Isa.45:22-24)
Love
Roy (UK)
PS I am not yet totally humbled, brother, I still retain some of my preconceived ideas and values of the past when INTELLECT ruled my life. It took that mighty man of God - Moses - forty years roaming in the wilderness tending his father-in-law's flock before God finally humbled him to the point of acceptance like a child. By that measure, at 89 years, I don't stand much of a chance. But God is good and one can never tell. Moses was eighty, if you recall, when God called him. Nothing is impossible for our Almighty God. And the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?' "Is anything too difficult for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, at this time next year, and Sarah will have a son." (Gen.18:13-14).
QuoteHi Roy.......brother, I have been to 6 Benny Hinn crusades at the LORD's direction for various reasons both to give and to receive (I was healed at one), and while it is arguably no better or no worse than most of what you see in churchianity, one fact remains; you get 20,000 - 200,000 people in one spot praying and asking for the Lord to move, and I guarantee you, HE HEARD THAT (united) PRAYER. Blessings
Brother Cardinal
I am overjoyed by your experience and healing. But, brother your healing was of faith and of God, give God the credit for it. You would have received it at home in your sitting room if you had asked for it with the same faith that you placed in Benny Hinn. Benny Hinn had nothing to do with it. Your trust in God was your healing card please believe me. And Jesus stopped and commanded that he be brought to Him; and when he came near, He questioned him, "What do you want Me to do for you?" And he said, "Lord, I want to regain my sight!" And Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has made you well." (Luke 18:40-42).
I personally have never asked for healing but in times of serious crisis, which we all experience in the course of our life, I have on several occasions asked for help. And I can, hand on heart, say quite honestly, that it has never as yet been refused though not always in the way I would have liked it. In two cases miracles would be a better way to describe it, as it had nothing to do with man or of this world.
I have nothing against Benny Hinn, he is a lovable fellow and one of God's children just like you and I, and I love him but not his ministry. If you recall, Jesus said: "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give. Do not acquire gold, or silver, or copper for your money belts, or a bag for your journey, or even two coats, or sandals, or a staff; for the worker is worthy of his support (Matt.10:7-10).
Now my brother without being judgmental ask yourself. How many sandals has Benny, or for that matter those of his ilk, worn out in their loxury limousines? How many coats have they worn out in their designer outfits? How empty are their money bags with the millions people send in response to their appeals? How many staffs have they needed in his executive jets? How much have they given freely other than what they ask for and sometimes demand, to be given to them (God) freely regardless of ones means? After answering these questions please feel free to come back to me.
Love
Roy (UK)
1 or 1 million God hears all prayers. He answers them according to his will.
If prayer was the true vehicle for true belief that gets us our preferences, then Jesus would not have been crucified. Sure people can say he desired Gods will, but he PRAYED harder than anyone has ever prayed for anything in their life that he not be. I guess Jesus didn't believe enough.
I've seen more discouragement from the genie doctines than I care to see. People struggling to get an answer from people who have no answer. They teach that only if you believe and do not have the means to teach anyone just when you know that you've believed enough.
Oh yeah, you've believed enough when you get what you want like they did. Cop out. I know a guy who tries so hard, prays and believes and is faithful. Just isn't getting the healing he desires while people around him suggest this guy and that guy. Go here, do this, do that, oh, you need to increase your faith and it will happen. At one point he felt he watched to much TV, well don't you know there are "good" faithful people that will say that very thing, oh allowing too much of the world in your mind.
None of that has anything to do with why a person does not get the healing they want.
This battle is not about flesh and blood, don't try to make it so, you decieve and discourage your brothers and sisters when you do so and the physical law of averages will make it appear otherwise.
Jesus knew how people percieved him and knew they would take a look at him and say Physician heal thyself, Maybe Jesus should have watched less TV or created benny hinn sooner.
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 12, 2009, 03:06:48 PM
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Brother Cardinal
Love
Roy (UK)
:mshock: :mshock: :mshock:
You quote Matthew 10:7-10 as if it was the sole standard by which to operate as a servant of God. Yet look at what Jesus says in the followup to the sending of the 70:
Luke 22:35-38, (AV)...
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
I had a sinus problem. There is a long several stories regarding it, but not for now. I was also being treated for injuries due to falling through a hatch. The combination of narcotics, anti-depressants and sinus medication has so affected people that they end up forgetting their name, slobbering in a wheelchair; yet, the symptoms disappear within about two week of getting off that combination of pills. The sinus medication is over the counter and people take it without tellin their doctor and end up in trouble. Sinus medication shrinks blood vessels, including those in the brain. I say this because it is no small matter, the headaches and related complications from sinus conditions.
I had casually turned on the TV and Benny Hinn was on. After a little, he said something to the effect that, "Someone with a sinus condition, there's power over your head...Jesus is healing you right now." He may have said, "There's a ball of power over your head," I don't remember. I know he said it was over my head. Yet I experienced God manifesting in a ball of gentle power in front of the bridge of my nose, where the nose and eyebrows meet, in front of my forehead. It was around the size of a ping-pong ball, a little bigger maybe...softball size was maybe another time. Anyway, I was absolutely healed. I had been on sinus medication for about 4 1/2 years. Didn't take it again but once a couple days later sort of out of habit. I just didn't need it any more. I like to turn on his program. I sometimes experience a flowing forth of power from him. There's also something spiritually edifying in the healing experiences of others.
There are many things that have another side to them. For instance, I saw a supposedly reliable TV expose' of Benny Hinn's hotel stays in very expensive hotels and suites. Yet it wasn't based on his own financial statement, only that he'd stayed in a place that was so much a night. It didn't say if these were complimentary stays or if some wealthy person had financed them. Beyond the blessing to a brother who owned a hotel to offer the use of his best, the press coverage makes such a donation more than worth it. With his notariety it would be unwise to stay somewhere without sufficient security for his privacy. It is very costly for large arenas for the literally millions of people in attendance. To appear in 20 or 30, or so countries a year in front of huge gatherings having his own plane is much better than even trying to go commercially, not only economically, but to maintain the schedule, security, and other issues. You pray like Benny does for a minimum of 5 hours a day for the next 20 years and get back to me about what you think has transpired, at least in part, because of it.
I can be critical about so many persons and the organizations raised up around them. To some extent, because they are public we should. But if engaged in, it must be with awarenes that a wrong attitude here can block you from progress in your spiritual life and its expression in many ways. People I've known who made a good start in following the Lord, some of them getting free even for years from drug and alcohol abuse, one of the common signs of their impending fall back into a sordid lifestyle which shortly transpired is criticism of the "Christian-ness" of the more prominent believers or ministries in their life. A certain friend I tried in various ways to turn on to the Lord. One day I make some insightful and deeply dismissive observations about a televangelist I struggle to not absolutely loathe because of his doctrine and attitude and he responded how he'd taken to watching him regularly and been so inspired by him. I really tried to back-track, but...feathers to the wind.
Just leave others to their own assignments and transgressions. If we are to be a direct influence, person to person in someone's life that is a different matter. But, for our own advancement in the things of God we need to realize we are not responsible for all those other people out there and what they do or do not do. We are only to pray in secret for them. If we do that even for our enemies, we won't make it the subject of conversation. We dealt with God. We each must answer for our own self and, "...receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Co 5:10, AV)
:cloud9: Hi Roy........I'm going to reply to something you said in your reply to Martin first. People falling under the power of God, do fall backwards. It's in there. It's called being slain in the Spirit, and it is because, in principle, that no enemy can stand in the presence of God and that enemy is between our eyes. When you are slain, you feel the Spirit of God coming directly at your head, addressing that which is enmity against Him, the carnal mind.
As for it being hysteria, far from it. I received the baptism in the HG and was slain in the Spirit at the same time, 4 months after I came to the Lord, by what I was allowed to see as "comet" shaped ball of fire coming down thru the heavens. It was 4 months before the Lord quickened to me that it was the "tongues" of fire spoken of on the day of Pentecost, tongue there as the tongue or flame.
At one crusade I took a rabid skeptic with me, a very analytical highly intelligent sort of professional person, who did not believe it, either. Her husband and 18 year old son went as well; her son had begged to go, I found out he had been watching on TBN before, and he believed.
We were way up in the nosebleed seats of a stadium that was packed. He told us to hold hands; the Lord told me NOT to, else she would think when we fell that I pulled her down. Benny did what you described, and we all started falling rows at a time, as a what I can only describe as a wave of His presence bowled us all over like an ocean wave at the beach.
My guest and her family was no exception, and she looked up at me in shock and the first words out of her mouth, with tears rolling down her face were, "YOU didn't do it!"
Now the interesting thing is, I found out later, that her husband considered himself a "warlock", as his pagan mother had introduced him to witchcraft at an early age, which was apparently why the Lord moved on me to invite her in the first place. ALL came to the Lord as a result of this, and are serving Him to this day.
And me? I was healed of the damage a heart attack from stress, had done to my heart when I was a mere 32, only a few months after the attack happened. I felt a literal fire ball hit me in the chest, I went limp in the seat for twenty minutes, and oh yes, Benny himself was not even on the podium yet, the anointing was present anyway. The Lord had told me to go, and I was obedient to do so; that's all that mattered to me.
I was healed so well, the doctor could not even find where the damage had been. Two decades later, I still have a heart like a young person, according to all the doctors who cannot figure out why my pulse is so low as if I was an athlete, and have neither high blood pressure nor high cholesterol.
So that aside, let me ASSURE you I am no way condoning any inappropriate behavior in his or any other man's ministry, nor do I have ANY man on a pedestal of any sort. But I would like to add to that, Abraham was the richest man in his day, as Job was in his. God is not offended by great wealth, it is the LOVE of money that He is concerned with. God looks on the motive of the heart.
And lastly, the Lord taught me a valuable lesson years ago. It was the tying together of these two scriptures, involving the word APPROVED. One, we are to study to show ourselves approved, and two, that Jesus was approved among us by signs and wonders. So that tells me if ANY MAN, has signs and wonders following his/her ministry, I would do well to not speak against God's anointed, irregardless of whether or not I approve, as it is plain to see, God ALREADY HAS.
And another thing He spoke to me one day just as my foot hit the pavement getting ready to tear into my Baptist uncle for making my mother cry the previous week over her being in a "Pentecostal cult", was this; "WHO are YOU to judge another man's servant? You will hug him and tell him you love him and nothing more."
Now let me make this plain, because again I don't want you to think I am saying this on Benny's behalf, as I am NOT; but on YOUR behalf that you do not reap the fruit of your lips. If you have ought against him, you have a God-given directive to lift him up as a sacrifice is lifted up and offered to the Lord. The LORD will decide what to do with it from there. Blessings.....
If people start saying that people aren't healed then that is just as discouraging. the point is that there are people who aren't healed physically but are healed spiritually and see their affliction as a blessing. People will doubt they should feel that way, but it is people who seek what God knows is best.
God can heal at anytime through anything. People are healed everyday just because. People start excersizing and their troubles go away, some give credit to God, some give credit to themselves. Maybe HANS abnd FRANS pumped them up and they got healed, but who is the ultimate cause? Who's will prevails, what is healing anyway.
I know a person I grew up around, one of my partying buddies, drunk most of the time, but you know he was a fun guy to be around. He had mental problems, was supposed to take medicine, didn't half the time and the other half he was drinking while taking the medicine.
Few years ago he was drunk and passed out across a set of railroad tracks. Train come along and cut both his legs off. And of course the "faithful" people I grew up around talked like if he had just come to God, believed in Jesus he'd still have his legs.
Well, what happened was is that through no ones help, he now thanks God that he is alive and after 30-40 years of drinking, doesn't touch the stuff anymore. Even after that, they don't care about his belief, because they will not look past the loss of his legs and the drunk that he WAS. They remain in the physical.
Healing without belief in the first place. God is everywhere in all things. My old pal doesn't register on the religiscope though, very very sad.
:cloud9: Good points, Paul, and yes that is sad. Praise God your friend is "walking" free....blessings......
Brother Cardinal
I am truly overjoyed by your experience and healing.
But it was trust in God, your faith, that was your healing card and it had nothing to do with Benny Hinn. Give God the credit, you could have received the same healing sat comfortably in your sitting room if you had asked with the same faith that you put in Benny Hinn.
My experiences occurred in times of crisis and I'll mention just two of them briefly of the many I've experienced. I will share full details in the appropriate section of the forum..
1).... I was a very heavy smoker and was given six months to live by the consultant at the chest clinic if I didn't stop smoking immediately. If you have no experience of how difficult it is to kick the smoking addiction, ask a 60-70 a day smoker. I was given 6 months to live. I used to pass out coughing. On one occasion I remembered a friend's advice and as I was recovering called on the name of Jesus, "Lord Jesus please help me!" That was the extent of my prayer because at the time I was a non believer. That was 50 years or so ago and I stand here today at 89 with untainted lungs and fully cured as witness.
2).......I was starting out in business as employment was very limited at the end of World War 11 and the country was on its knees, devastated. I had no finance and no supplier would supply materials unless you had a permanent shop premises. I saw an empty shop and approached the owner but a deposit I didn't have was required, so that fell through.
Foolishly or wisely I don't know but I procured a wife that I loved and also a child to support. I didn't know Jesus then, but I knew there was a God, and I always imagined Him looking down at us through a little hole in the sky. So in desperation I remember looking up at that imaginary hole and crying out in my heart, "My God what am I to do?"
You're not going to believe this but that very evening an elite Bently car drew up at my front door. And when I answered the knock I was confronted by a lady in the finest of fur coats. I had no furniture as such, a dining table and four chairs on the HP. At my request she drew a chair and sat down. This was the conversation briefly. "Are you the gentleman that came to my house enquiring after that empty shop?" I replied, "Yes but I can't have it as I don't have the required deposit." She responded "You were dealing with my husband and our lawyer but I am the owner and I heard all you had to say. Are you prepared to do what you considered to be your only option. A set weekly sum, no deposit and no misses?" I couldn't believe it, I was stunned,"Yes!" I stammered.
This is no lie. The shop with living accommodation was worth then £1500 pounds sterling which at today's valuation would be £250,000 sterling. She pulled out an ordinary club card and a set of keys and said, "Use this card as a record of your payments, when it is complete you'll have the deeds and freehold rights and these are the keys. You can take possession immediately and good luck." That was it, no written agreement, no deposit, no fuss, no bother, she got up and went. That was my God at work.
So my brother I can assure you Benny Hinn had no part of it, you could have had your request granted in the comfort of your own sitting room with the same faith that you placed in Benny Hinn. Give God not man Benny Hinn Full credit. Always remember: "TRUST IN THE LORD WITH YOUR WHOLE HEART AND DO NOT LEAN ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING "
(pro.3:5).
Give God the credit and praise Him, leave man and his and your own intellects well alone. Consign them to the thrash bin as I have done, and never had to look back.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteIf prayer was the true vehicle for true belief that gets us our preferences, then Jesus would not have been crucified. Sure people can say he desired Gods will, but he PRAYED harder than anyone has ever prayed for anything in their life that he not be. I guess Jesus didn't believe enough
Brother Paul
Be very careful,
do not blaspheme. Jesus, the man, prayed for deliverance as you or anyone else would in that position, knowing He was going to be nailed to a stake in the ground. He sweated drops of blood that's how hard He prayed but regardless He submitted His will to His Father for your sake and mine and the whole world's,
so do not blaspheme. Get down on your knees and beg forgivness and thank Him for His mighty sacrifice. Would you pray for someone who would stick a spear in your side and nail you to a cross, I doubt it. "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." (Luke 23:34). That's what he was praying for you, my brother, whist nailed to a cross in the process of giving all for you and DON'T EVER FORGET IT. Don't join those at the foot of the cross who were dividing His clothes.
Love
Roy (UK)
:cloud9: Praise God Roy, for His blessings towards you. :thumbsup:
I think we have a failure to communicate here, Roy. :winkgrin: I am not suggesting the glory should not go to God. I am not "advocating" for Benny, I am "advocating" for what GOD is choosing to do thru the man's ministry. Benny, is, as is ALL other anointed flesh, just a "point of contact" like Paul's handkerchief. I hope you can see the distinction I am making here. Blessings...
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 12, 2009, 06:11:56 PM
QuoteIf prayer was the true vehicle for true belief that gets us our preferences, then Jesus would not have been crucified. Sure people can say he desired Gods will, but he PRAYED harder than anyone has ever prayed for anything in their life that he not be. I guess Jesus didn't believe enough
Brother Paul
Be very careful, do not blaspheme. Jesus, the man, prayed for deliverance as you or anyone else would in that position, knowing He was going to be nailed to a stake in the ground. He sweated drops of blood that's how hard He prayed but regardless He submitted His will to His Father for your sake and mine and the whole world's, so do not blaspheme. Get down on your knees and beg forgivness and thank Him for His mighty sacrifice. Would you pray for someone who would stick a spear in your side and nail you to a cross, I doubt it. "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." (Luke 23:34). That's what he was praying for you, my brother, whist nailed to a cross in the process of giving all for you and DON'T EVER FORGET IT. Don't join those at the foot of the cross who were dividing His clothes.
Love
Roy (UK)
I am pointing out what Prayer is NOT by example.
Quote from: RoyYou're not going to believe this but that very evening an elite Bently car drew up at my front door.
I'd believe it. Sounds just like Him. I love hearing testimonies like this. Thanks, Roy!
2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
QuoteYou quote Matthew 10:7-10 as if it was the sole standard by which to operate as a servant of God. Yet look at what Jesus says in the followup to the sending of the 70:
Brother reFORMer
I'll have to answer your full post separately.
I see the above as two different scenarios,
1)...........In scenario (1) they were sent to reap the harvest that was ready for the picking, under His protection because of the wolves out there,. Their purses were empty before leaving and they were the same when they returned, no one had a purse bursting at the seams. The houses they were welcomed into fed them and provided for their needs in return for receiving the Word of God from them. Food and clothing and such, no money was asked for and none given. And under the Lord's protection no sword was necessary among the wolves.
2)..........He issues a warning to the same disciples, because Satan aware of what lay ahead was now on the prowl. Satan's first target was Peter and he had a fair measure of success. Once the Lord's protection was no longer available Satan would pounce and have a feast, so they would, in symbolic terms, need a sword: "....in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. (Eph.6:16-17). IMO The Word of God is the sword He was referring to, because one of His disciples took Him literally and carried a sword and struck off the guards ear and what was the Lord's response: "But Jesus answered and said, "Stop! No more of this." And He touched his ear and healed him." (Luke 22:51).
Love
Roy (UK)
A few years back I had attended a Passover conference in Detroit during the time I was site administrator for Great Eagle Ministries Forum. During that time period I had some words with a number of Pastors (LOL some things never change) of doctrines and what had been as well as what would be.
One of the speakers had also been one of those I disputed with although I was very fond of him as a person. Anyway at the end of his message he stopped for a second and then called me forward......... I knew this was to be our reconciliation and when he put his hand on my head I went down like sack of rocks ...... some of those present said that there was at the same time lightening and thundering ....... I can't verify that though and for the next maybe 10 minutes I lay on the floor in front of everyone there basically powerless to move.
What I can verify was during this time period I was suffering from a severe urinary track infection that caused normal bodily functions to be few and far between along with a great deal of discomfort.............. but a couple of hours later while in my room I realized what had been untreatable and chronic was gone and without looking to be healed I had been healed
I did not ask for a healing nor was one offered.......... but one was given.
Acts 14:9
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
And the funny thing about it was .......... the speakers name was Paul :thumbsup:
Doug
QuoteI had a sinus problem
.
Brother reFORMer
I am delighted to hear of the healing of your sinus problem. It is a nasty complaint. I know a few people with it and the medication adds to rather than relieves the problem. But you know how it is, when you mention "Ask Jesus to cure it." they laugh me to scorn, but they are the suferers not I. So if they want to keep it what right have I to deny their wish.
But my brother, believe me, your healing card came from the Spirit within you. Benny Hiin was just a catalyst to bring that faith forward seeing his antics on stage. Exercise that faith sitting in the comfort of your front room and your focus on God, with the TV switched off, and in all humility let your heart cry out to Him and your cry will be answered. All through the Scriptures you can hear that cry when trouble arrives: "Then we cried to the Lord, the God of our fathers, and the Lord heard our voice and saw our affliction and our toil and ouroppression; and the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with great terror and with signs and wonders;" (Deut.26:7-8).
Like Benny Hinn, you, I and all God's children who receive His Spirit are the annointed of God so you have as much power - if not more, because you know your credentials but you do not know his - to do even greater things so build on your faith and leave Benny Himm alone: As for you, the
anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." (1Jn.2:27). These words are not mine they come straight out of God's Holy Reference Book. You must have read them, why not believe in them and abide by them?
Cast off the old self of INTELLECT RULE and put on the new the SPIRIT OF GOD..
I believe that if the Spirit is in, then the Intellect must be put out. But if the Intellect is allowed in then the Spirit will leave and we will be left as orphans and lose the blessing: "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. (In.14:18-19)
I am not attempting to teach or influence anyone, all I'm doing is answering questions and expessing my belief. God forbid that I should aspire to be a teacher, we only have one: "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. (MATT.23:8) and He is within us.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteHi Roy........I'm going to reply to something you said in your reply to Martin first. People falling under the power of God, do fall backwards. It's in there. It's called being slain in the Spirit, and it is because, in principle, that no enemy can stand in the presence of God and that enemy is between our eyes. When you are slain, you feel the Spirit of God coming directly at your head, addressing that which is enmity against Him, the carnal mind.
Brother Cardinal
Where in the Scriptures does it mention "Slain in the Spirit" and where does it say that those thus slain fall backwards. This is the Word of God and the Word of God must be quoted in all such cases. So where, brother?
Regarding speaking in tongues; every nation present could plainly hear in their own language what was being spoken by the Apostles. If English is the language of the hearer then he should be able to understand what was being said, but does he? " So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;" (1 Cor.14:22-24). So the speaking of tongues is not for the edification of the Church, but more for private commune with God and not for public demonstration, to brng disrepute on the Church. And it should be used with great discretion and not bandied about with as is happening: "So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air." (1Cor.14:9). (And as popular belief would have it, it not a sign of one having or not having the Spirit, as not all Spirit filled people speak in toingues: "All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? But earnestly desire the greater gifts." (1Cor.12:30-31). And the greatest gift of all is LOVE. "But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love." (1Cor.13:13).
Love
Roy (UK)
Following this thread, I did a little research and found this. It may be helpful in the discussion;
"The first thing one should notice is that the word touch actually means physical harm. What it does not mean is saying something about another person publicly that is true. How do we know this? Because that's exactly what David did about Saul. It was David who said he would not harm God's anointed, who was King Saul at the time but He spoke out publicly about him.
In 1 Sam.16:13-16 ....David rebukes Saul before all his troops....Saul then repented for his rash behavior and called himself a fool. David returned Saul's possessions and said, "For the Lord delivered you into my hand but I would not stretch out my hand against the Lord's anointed." Notice what this means, not to bring physical harm.
....Paul called the Berean's more noble than the others. For what reason? They looked to the Scripture to see if what Paul was teaching was accurate. Paul never said, "Touch not God's anointed" or "do my prophets no harm"; you will never find an apostle teach this, nor is this found ONCE in the whole New Testament."
www.letusreason.org
IMO, it may be a tricky balance, as we're also told to not judge. May we all seek to rightly divide the Word of Truth. God's blessing, James.
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 12, 2009, 05:40:41 PM
I stand here today at 89.
Awesome! You have my respect, brother. :hihat:
QuoteIn 1 Sam.16:13-16 ....David rebukes Saul before all his troops....Saul then repented for his rash behavior and called himself a fool. David returned Saul's possessions and said, "For the Lord delivered you into my hand but I would not stretch out my hand against the Lord's anointed." Notice what this means, not to bring physical harm.
Hi! James
Thank you, my brother, fo that very important information a point which has completely escaped my notice. But that is the purpose of this exercise that we help one another. Continue to search and humbly ask the Lord and He will provide the truth: "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?" (Luke 11:9-13).
Seek and ask in humility, my brother, do not put yourself under bondage to Satan by probing with your intellect. He, the Spirit of God, will fill your cup to overflowing, be patient it takes time depending on how you respond to His appeal: "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; " (2Cor.6:16-17). And again: "I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities." (Rev.18:4-5).
Who then is He calling to? The Catholics; the Protestants; the Pentecostals; the Methodists; the Jehovah Witnesses: the Mormons or who? Each group of the hundreds taking cover under the umbrella of Christianity claim that He means them. But who does He really mean?
The answer is none of them, they are all under the bondage of INTELLECT and corrupt. He is calling His chosen people who, like Noah, Joshua and Moses who kicked out evil - INTELLECT- and chose to follow good - Spirit. They all: "TRUST IN THE LORD WITH YOUR WHOLE HEART AND DO NOT LEAN ON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING " (Pro.3:5), trusted in the Lord and not their own understanding - Intellect - and we must learn from their example, that is why our God has recorded these events in His Holy History Book for our perusal. Please read it and the consequence of disobedience "THERE IS A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT TO A MAN, BUT ITS END IS THE WAY OF DEATH." (Pro.14:12 & 16:25) in your Bible and follow it through all the generations.
And what is it that is UNCLEAN and SIN? Why is it not Satan your intellect which is enmity to God? "...because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so." (Rom.8:7).
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteAnd lastly, the Lord taught me a valuable lesson years ago. It was the tying together of these two scriptures, involving the word APPROVED. One, we are to study to show ourselves approved, and two, that Jesus was approved among us by signs and wonders. So that tells me if ANY MAN, has signs and wonders following his/her ministry, I would do well to not speak against God's anointed, irregardless of whether or not I approve, as it is plain to see, God ALREADY HAS.
Dear brother Cardinal
Please quote the Scripture where it says all these things? And, brother, it is not my place to deter you from what you believe, my purpose here is to express what I believe the Lord is saying to me and sharing it peacefully with all you lovely people, I love you all, and would do nothing intentionally to harm you or deter you from what you believe. We will all individually answer to Almighty God for our actions.
If you believe in Benny Hinn then so be it. But brother, please remember that stage hypnotists and illusionists can perform some unbelievable things infront of your very eyes by a process known as "auto-suggestion_" where people do some strange things, bark like dogs and such at the suggestion of the hypnotist. Yes, you can be cured of various ailments by the process of auto-suggestion. But give these people their due they are honest and confess that it is an illusion and they are doing it for entertainment and a living. There can be nothing wrong in that.
But can we be sure that this is not the method used in the name of God? "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits." (Matt.7:15-20). These are warnings and we must heed them and be very wary.
"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNES." (Matt.7:22-23).
I make no claim to being a prophet, God forbid that I should less He made it clear to me, but this reminds me of God's message through His prohet Ezekiel: Then He said to me, "Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel, nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate. (Ezek.3:4-7).
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteNow let me make this plain, because again I don't want you to think I am saying this on Benny's behalf, as I am NOT; but on YOUR behalf that you do not reap the fruit of your lips. If you have ought against him, you have a God-given directive to lift him up as a sacrifice is lifted up and offered to the Lord. The LORD will decide what to do with it from there.
Brother Cardinal
To answer the latter part of your posting. What gives you the impression that I have something against Benny Hinn? I have seen him and I love him as I love you and all the dear children of God right here on this site, he is a child of God and a charming character. What I don't like is his ministry. You like it, that's fair enough by me, but I don't. My lips speak no ill against the man which you accuse me very unfairly of. That is judgmental, very wrong and not of God I can assure you.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteFew years ago he was drunk and passed out across a set of railroad tracks. Train come along and cut both his legs off. And of course the "faithful" people I grew up around talked like if he had just come to God, believed in Jesus he'd still have his legs.
Well, what happened was is that through no ones help, he now thanks God that he is alive and after 30-40 years of drinking, doesn't touch the stuff anymore. Even after that, they don't care about his belief, because they will not look past the loss of his legs and the drunk that he WAS. They remain in the physical.
Brother Hazelwood
I fear you totally misunderstand my postings. My experience of healing was a personal matter that I believe the Lord wanted me to share, and when I received that particular post I felt that draw to shared it. I am overjoyed to hear of your buddie's life change. And my heart goes out to him and you, but that is no reason to have blasphemed.
I have never said that God would cure everyone who asked, though nothing is impossible for Him: And the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?' "Is anything too difficult for the LORD? (Gen.18:13-14). But Intellect is presently in control and if someone cried out from the heart they'd be crying out to Satan and he would be only too happy to refuse so as to demean God, inviting blasphemous posts like yours. But I will say this that the person who casts out the demon Satan and his agent intellect and re-establishes the Holy Spirit in His rightful place then ALL REQUESTS WILL BE ANSWERED: "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. (Jn.14:13-15). That is the condition!
I agree with you there are unfortunately a lot of what one would term as religious cranks who trust everything into the keeping of their warped intellects, that's why I'm so against intellect, it is evil, it is of Satan and not of God, so please don't include me in their numbers. I only accommodate the Spirit of God in my relationship with matters relating to God and bring my intellect into use in matters relating to my everyday living and even while there I seek God's help. Other than that I leave intellect to those who want to make the world a better place without God and in the process making it into a sewer.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteGood points, Paul, and yes that is sad. Praise God your friend is "walking" free....
I say Amen!! To that Cardinal.
Love
Roy (UK).
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 13, 2009, 03:50:29 PM
I fear you totally misunderstand my postings.
I do not recall addressing you personally, they are intended for whoever they can help.
Quote
And my heart goes out to him and you, but that is no reason to have blasphemed.
I have not blasphemed, thats your opinion.
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 13, 2009, 01:17:00 PM
Continue to search and humbly ask the Lord and He will provide the truth:
Love
Roy (UK)
Thank you, God's blessing.
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 13, 2009, 03:50:29 PM
I have never said that God would cure everyone who asked
But, everyone will be cured, when and how is not of us.
:cloud9: Hi Roy, not ignoring you, just been busy here. Will reply when I get more time. God's blessings to you, Card
QuoteI did not ask for a healing nor was one offered.......... but one was given.
Acts 14:9
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed
Brother Doug.
That's a great testimony. It shows that God works in mysterious ways. Yes, He knows us and our needs better than we know our own needs ourselves, and, as in your case, He supplies those needs without being asked.
But as Paul so rightly pointed out, some people and churches make a mockery of it. I agree with him because I once visited a charismatic church at the invitation of a friend. The healing performance there took me back to a film I once saw on woodooism in the depths of Africa and I was disgusted, all that was missing was the severance of a chicken's head. How sick can one get in God's name?
I wouldn't have been surprised if someone had been healed because our Lord Jesus Christ said: "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNES." (Matt.7:22-23).
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteI am pointing out what Prayer is NOT by example.
Brother Paul
Please accept my sincerest apology, it was indeed very remiss of me. I'll have to have my eyes tested again, at 89 they tend to let one down and play some nasty tricks. Please forgive me for being so hasty but I tend to get rather incensed when I think someone is offending my Lord. That is a bit of the intellect culture that still lingers in me and it's not good and not of God. It is a long process trying to get rid of it all as it is a powerful adversary. I wish there was an easier way.
Love
Roy (UK)
Hi Roy [UK]
Been reading this thread for a little while now .
Have enjoyed it and the witness to the glory of God
I have said to many that we meet on the way of lifes journeys
That I am grateful that God hears !! not so much how we pray , but God hears us ! and answers them requests
I have an example one day last week my husband was having a tough night at work and asked me to pray for him , I did not cry with tears or great sweat and lament , but simply asked the Lord to help my husband out , and my husband called at 10 that night with a good report!
I told him that is how GOOD GOD is !! that He hears us and is as speedy as a chariot to answer in just the right way to make us truely glorify and praise Him as He so richly deserves
I feel undeserving of answered prayers as any sinner saved by grace ,
and thats all i have , Gods goodness in Christ has certainly increased our faith in HIM and His power over anything this life dished out
believe me I have cried many of tears and pain and sorrow for God to hear these prayers answered and some are just so plain and clear you cannot deny His faithfulness and glory in them
and sure there has been sorrow and disappointment along the way with how we DO suffer loss and pain as if God has not heard our prayers
I do believe that this is the journey and not so much the end of what is to come when we are totally free from the physical aspect of Adam and in the spiritual aspect ofthe last Adam / Spirit /Christ
We certainly can taste the Lord now and know He is good ... :icon_flower:
Roy, no hard feelings, apology accepted.
Hi Roy,
I'm new.
Would you please rephrase the question.
For as I read it now, bless us, Jesus opened the scrolls.
Our bitter hearts never could.
" Hundreds of denominations, sects, cults and fringe elements under the umbrella of Christianity are running back and forth in search of the truth to this very day, us included, and not finding it."
That says YOU.
I serve the Lord.
You are dear to God and His people, brother Roy. It is just that we are dealing with several topics here for our mutual edification, one I pry into here. I want to be forgiven for not looking up cross references because of haste. The word should be recognized by many reading, and others not familiar with Scripture should experience agreement with the revelation of truth.
Jesus says, "Who receives your receives not you, but me; and who receives me receives not me but Him that sent me;" and, "In that day ye shall know that I am in you and you are in me and that we are one, even as I and the Father are one." The apostle says, "We are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones." (Ep 5) As well, hear the famous statement of Jesus' basis of judging the nations: "Who has done it unto one of these, the least of my brethren, has done it unto me." These truths reveal an inner reality of the conscious presence of God within humanity. It's there even if it is mostly unrecognized, as is the case. Even in all creation, God lurks. The recognition of dark matter and energy gives new depth to the fact that God wraps Himself with thick darkness.* It is the meaning the songwriter reached for, though often criticized for choice of words, " Standing somewhere in the shadows you'll find Jesus." One said, "Surely You are a God that hides Himself." In people and in the cosmos, it seems all else is appearing while God is nowhere to be found. Truthfully, the unbiblical term to describe God's activity on display as "supernatural" is a misconception, as there is no such thing as "natural law," as though Nature was a god. What is referred to as natural law is only God's usual way of doing things. What is referred to as supernatural is God doing things in an exceptional way. "All is of God."
The inwardness of our secretive God Whose glory is to hide things is a personality trait balanced by the fact He loves to be seen and praised. "All is of God." This continuation of a well know passage of Scripture is usually omitted. "...if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God..." (2 Co 5:17-18, AV) And returning to what leads up to this expression of universal totality is an inner disposition that directs the course of life: "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead..." (vs.14) This reality inward to all living is regardless of appearances. All has been disconnected from its Source, Guide and Goal, that what is reconnected would in liberty be redirected toward the union with the origin and sustenance of reality's identity. "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (vs.15) The outward changes the Seed underwent, dying in its solitary self transferred it into new revealed identity extending into the center that draws all into it. Christ is within all, either crucified or risen. "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things." (Ep 4:10, AV) The imperceptible Divine operates external extreme transitions with inner consciousness. Being disposed to spirit, having died to the flesh, in union with Fathering love, "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. (vs.16)
"Ye" is plural. "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 Jn 2:27, AV) Who needs no man to teach is the many membered body. Who the anointing teaches all things is not the solitary in private interpretations. Though the Lord is holy, set apart from all else that is, He has joined with creation in redemption. He is in union with His Bride whose members in particular operate spiritual gifts as it has pleased Him to impart. He determines the making known of Himself through many sons. "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being 'many, are one' body: so also is Christ." (1 Co 12:12, AV) This is the true Christ: "Many are one..." And "except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer," you cannot dismiss either the sons or the made universe when dealing with the real God. So you cannot say God's manifestation has nothing to do with this or that servant or son. "For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it." (Ps 132:13-14, AV)
__________________________________________________________________________
* "And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was." (Ex 19:21, AV)
"Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." (1 Ki 8:12; 2 Ch 6:1, AV)
"He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies." (Ps :18:11, AV)
:cloud9: Amen reFormer........ :thumbsup: and those last 3 scriptures you posted are what He gave me for the foundation principles for the feast of TABERNACLES. Blessings....
QuoteI do believe that this is the journey and not so much the end of what is to come when we are totally free from the physical aspect of Adam and in the spiritual aspect ofthe last Adam / Spirit /Christ
We certainly can taste the Lord now and know He is good ...
Sister Rosered
God bless you and Molly! You are the only two ladies that I believe are beginning to see the light at the end of a very dark tunnel. But where are the men?
Jesus said: "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Matt.7:13-14). The narrow road is like a very thin ray of light running down the centre of a dark tunnel, the broad road, and only a chosen few will find it, the rest are in complete darkness. That little light at the end of that dark tunnel will get brighter and larger as we succeed in driving Satan's seed - INTELLECT - which he planted in our first parents hearts in the garden of Eden, further into the wilderness and away from us thus making provision for our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ's Holy Spirit to occupy it's rightful place in our hearts. Jesus Christ brought that light into the world two thousand years ago: In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." (Jn.1:4-5). But within 100 years of our Lord's departure, intellectual man using his - INTELLECT - has succeeded in throwing man back into complete darkness. He failed to recognize the Light when it shone on earth and now, following in the footsteps of our fathers and Israel before him, he is failing to comprehend the darkness: "For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2Thess.2:3-14). Now they will believe the lies from the mouths of men and reject the truth from the Word of God: "THERE IS A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT TO A MAN BUT ITS END IS THE WAY OF DEATH." (Pro 14:12 & 16:25).
Keep your focus on that light sisters and do as the Lord demands, cast Satan and his seed out, and it will get larger and larger until SALVATION.
If you need help then ask for it from God not man, and it will be given: "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him! (Matt.7:7-11).
People have said to me, "I keep asking but I receive nothing, there's no one there." Oh! But thre is and a mighty One is HE : "You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures. You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God." (Jas.4:3-4).
I pray this helkps you lovely ladies.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteRoy, no hard feelings, apology accepted.
Thank you my brother.
I will endeavour not to be so hasty in future. God bless you, forgiveness is a magnificent virtue.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteWould you please rephrase the question.
For as I read it now, bless us, Jesus opened the scrolls.
Our bitter hearts never could
Dear Beloved Servant
Brother I am not a teacher, nor do I entertain any aspirations to become one. ONE is my Teacher and One is sufficient: "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. (Matt.3:8). If you will be good enough to quote the Scripture in question I will endeavour with God's help try to meet your request.
Love
Roy (UK).
Quote" Hundreds of denominations, sects, cults and fringe elements under the umbrella of Christianity are running back and forth in search of the truth to this very day, us included, and not finding it."
That says YOU.
I serve the Lord.
Dear Beloved Servant.
Are you suggesting that I'm not serving the Lord, Brother, becasuse if you are I will let my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ answer you: "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." ((Matt.7:1-6). Beware brother beloved or you won't be beloved for long from what that Scripture says - not from what I say.
Love
Roy (UK)
Huh, umm no.
I was just referring to the fact that you used the word "us."
Quote"And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was." (Ex 19:21, AV)
"Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." (1 Ki 8:12; 2 Ch 6:1, AV)
"He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies." (Ps :18:11, AV)
Dear brother reFORMer
What you quote above are God's words and woe be me to argue with them, but we need to understand them.
God our Father who no man has seen: No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." (Jn 1:18) The Father, for reasons known only to Him and His Son and no business ours, hides Himself in the darkness He creates for that specific purpose, but the Father Himself is Light: This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. (1Jn.1:5-7). Do you get that bit brother, if we walk in the Light then we are washed by the blood of His Son that cleanses us. Not if we walk in the darkness.
That is the point I have been trying to emphasise all along. Never mind what your pastors say. Don't use your brain - intellect - to study God's word you'll get it wrong: "THERE IS A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT TO A MAN BUT ITS END IS THE WAY OF DEATH." (Pro.14L12 & 16:25). Intellect is Satan's seed and enmity to God: "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, (Rom.8:7). Confine your intellect to the dust bin and try just readung your Bible for a change, and in all humility ask the Lord for the answers: Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!" (Matt.7:7-11).
You quote the Scriptures accurately but why don't you follow the instructions?
I cannot answer your full post here because I am at a loss trying to fathom out what you are driving at. Please clarify and make it a bit simpler.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteHuh, umm no.
I was just referring to the fact that you used the word "us."
Dear Beloved Servant
Yes! I mean us, that includes me, brother. Are we not all searching for the truth or have some of us found it? I very much doubt that. So, yes, the word US applies and I make no apology for saying that.
Love
Roy (UK)
Umm, ok.
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 14, 2009, 11:36:44 PM
QuoteHuh, umm no.
I was just referring to the fact that you used the word "us."
Dear Beloved Servant
Yes! I mean us, that includes me, brother. Are we not all searching for the truth or have some of us found it? I very much doubt that. So, yes, the word US applies and I make no apology for saying that.
Love
Roy (UK)
Hi Roy,
If I may, I think this misunderstanding between you and beloved servant is that your words imply that no one has found any truth.
I feel you are speaking in general and not making a full accusation towards anyone. I am also not critisizing your words, just this crossed my mind so I thought I would share it.
I know that I have not discovered all spiritual truths, but I am confident that God has enlightened me with some truths that I do not need to question much at all.
I do not believe you are accusing anyone of not finding any truth at all, correct me if I am wrong.
Hi There Bro Roy (UK),
Thought of this verse when reading your post to us on the Light / knowledge /Wisdom of God
and seeing that the two lights one ruling the Day and the other lesser light ruling the night . knowing this ,makes me realize that some are children of the Day [1Th 5:5]and some are children / stars of the night[ Psa 136:9]
the Lord has taken care of everything :icon_flower:
Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jam 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jam 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
And I also agree that intellect of man/adam is the death of us all ...as well as the serpent seed
Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Rom 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all [men]. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.
1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Thanks for the encouragment
God bless :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 14, 2009, 11:24:55 PM
I cannot answer your full post here because I am at a loss trying to fathom out what you are driving at. Please clarify and make it a bit simpler.
Love
Roy (UK)
In our posts we have mentioned Benny Hinn (I like to joke and call him Bunny Hinder who wrote
The Annoying,) but I don't want to make this personally about Him. It is about any spiritual gift operating in anyone. What I meant to illustrate with the thick darkness that God wraps Himself in is that God is inward. There are things we must encounter that are about Him, that seem unlike our carnal reasoning of Who His is, reaching through things that are not Him to find Him. Who knows what can show up in anyone who has the indwelling spirit. More particularly, God makes certain persons to be gifts to the Church. "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." (1 Co 12:27-28, AV) If you invited me over to your house for tea, but on the condition that I leave my right hand at my house, I would know I wasn't welcome because my hand is me. If I lost my hand my self wouldn't be extinguished. I am not my hand; yet, if I lay my hand on you I am touching you. So, in the Eclessia, God has placed certain members. Men or women who are, "Gifts of healings" are God's flesh in the earth. While it may be God wants to heal me alone with Him, He may want something else another time. I can't say I want His healing but don't want His body. If I want healing I must come God's way for each healing. It is a new and living way. Jesus says, "Of mine own self I can do nothing. My Father Who is with me, He doeth the works." If Jesus can't live the "Christian" life, why do we think we can? It is the Father, not ourselves. I know in one sense it is not such and such a brother who does the healing. It is the Lord. On the other hand it is that brother because God set him to be a healer in the Eclessia.
One time, I took a book to continue reading it, a writing from the 1600's, "On the Love of God for Other Men in Their Sins" and sat in my chair. With my finger in the book I explained to my friend how, "If we want the gift in a box, we must take the box. If we want the gifts of anointing on someone's life, we must accept the man. It is like a Popsicle, if I want one I have to accept the whole thing; but, I only eat the frozen treat, not the stick." Then I opened the book and flat discs of light in pastel colors fell out, staying flat. Blue, green, pink yellow...I asked my friend if she saw them too. And she said she did. They were really there. We had other inexplicable manifestations between us of heavenly phenomena.
QuoteIf I may, I think this misunderstanding between you and beloved servant is that your words imply that no one has found any truth.
Brother Paul
I cannot see where my words imply that no one has found any truth. And there is no misunderstanding between my brother, Beloved Servant, and myself. I love him as much as I love you and all on this site. I appreciate fully that his thinking is on the lines of what I have come out of, and that my line of thinking is based on something rather controversial and not acceptable by 90% to 99% of the Christian fraternity. But it is what I believe the Lord has reveiled to me and I am duty bound to share it: "I am sending you to them who are stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God.' As for them, whether they listen or not—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them. And you, son of man, neither fear them nor fear their words, though thistles and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions; neither fear their words nor be dismayed at their presence, for they are a rebellious house. But you shall speak My words to them whether they listen or not, for they are rebellious. Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you." Then I looked, and behold, a hand was extended to me; and lo, a scroll was in it. When He spread it out before me, it was written on the front and back, and written on it were lamentations, mourning and woe." (Ezek.2:4-10).
Now please don't jump of your comfortable chair and accuse me of claiming to be a prophet. I am no prophet nor do I aspire to be one unless God so desires, in which event He will make that fact abundantly clear no doubt.
I love all God's children, since they were created by Him, whether they be for Him or against Him. He is the judge and He will do His pleasure: "Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever......."This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us." ( 1Jn.2:15-17 & 1Jn.3:23-24).
All I endeavour to do with His bountiful help, is to do what I believe He is commanding me to do. Many have said to me "You hypocrite! You don't fast." That is true, I don't fast for a reason: "But the days will come; and when the bridegroom is taken away from them, then they will fast in those days." (Luke 5:35). But you see the Bridegroom has not been taken away from me, He is right here closer than He was to His Apostles, He is right within me, so I don't fast.
Love
Roy (UK)
Alrighty then, never mind.
QuoteHi There Bro Roy (UK),
Hi! There
This sounds like my beloved sister in Christ, Joyce - Joyful. Three sisters in league, where are the men?
Am I right or do I look elsewhere?"Summoning two of his disciples, John sent them to the Lord, saying, "Are You the Expected One, or do we look for someone else?" (7:19).
If I'm right thank you Joyce for your delightful post. If I'm not then will the sender please identify herself?
Love
Roy (UK)
Quote from: Roy Monis on June 15, 2009, 02:58:34 PM
QuoteHi There Bro Roy (UK),
Hi! There
This sounds like my beloved sister in Christ, Joyce - Joyful. Three sisters in league, where are the men?
Am I right or do I look elsewhere?"Summoning two of his disciples, John sent them to the Lord, saying, "Are You the Expected One, or do we look for someone else?" (7:19).
If I'm right thank you Joyce for your delightful post. If I'm not then will the sender please identify herself?
Love
Roy (UK)
It is still I, rosered bro ROY , my real name is Rose also
God bless you
I am sure Joyce is a good friend in the Lord too ..
:HeartThrob:
QuoteIt is still I, rosered bro ROY , my real name is Rose also
God bless you
I am sure Joyce is a good friend in the Lord too
Dear Rose
Thank you for identifing yourself and may the Lord bless you and yours too.
Love
Roy (UK)
QuoteJam 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Dear Sister Rose
Thank you from the depths of my heart for the admonition quoted above. As soon as I read it the Spirit within quickened me into reading all my previous posts and He has opened my eyes to the fact that those brothers and sisters reading them might be, more likely than not, discouraged rather than encouraged by them
Three such brothers of mine – Cardinal, Beloved Servant, and reformer – have been the recipients of that LOVE mistaken for wrath. I offer all three, here right now, my sincere hand of brotherly love and friendship in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
This grave error, I believe, lies in the fact that we are on different wavelengths in lines of thought. There are two lines of thought to be considered here.
There is the first scenario which involves God's relationship with man in the garden of Eden, where Adam and Eve walked freely with their Creator God and He (God) planted His seed the -Holy Spirit- in man's heart.
The second scenario involves Satan's relationship with man in the garden of Eden, where Adam and Eve fell for Satan's lies and he planted his seed –Intellect- into man's heart and in so doing replaced the Spirit of God.
Ever since the fall the relationship between God, Man and Satan has been like a yoyo, back and forth – does that phrase ring a bell, sister – between the Spirit and Intellect all through the generations. It is very plain to see in the Bible, starting with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, the judges, the kings, the sacking of Jerusalem to the advent of our Lord. It is a beautiful true story of LOVE and HATE between God and man, but it must be read as one would read any worldly true romance. But it must not under any circumstances be
STUDIED , as the involvement of Satan's seed immediately kills the romance since one of the parties of that romance – the Spirit – has been replaced.
What I have failed to realize is that only those few chosen:"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. "This I command you, that you love one another." (Jn.15:16-17) who have been called and chosen by the Lord will be granted the insight to see the message in my postings, the rest will remain in darkness until they too begin to see this relationship and accept their Saviour under His conditions; Humility, Obedience, Total Submission. Which means genuinely starting from scratch and being truly Born Again with a broken and contrite heart:The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise (Ps.51:17).
None of this wish-wash business we see in the Churches today, of repeating some concocted sinner's prayer and being once saved always saved nonsense with total disregard to what the Scriptures have to say on the subject.
The world was in darkness since the sacking of Jerusalem until the advent of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, when the Light came into the world once again and opened man's eyes to the truth and the Spirit of God was allowed in. But sadly, within 100 years of His departure man reverted back to the old days of following in the footsteps of his predecessors, Israel, only this time the change has been one of 2000 years, the longest in the history of man. Satan rules today, Intellect is in and the Holy Spirit has been left outside, knocking at the door to come in; ('Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. (Rev.3:20). I was ridiculed for using this phrase in my postig "Through The Eyes Of A Child", but never mind, I still stand by it and make the appeal.
This has been a great error on my part, sister, and I thank you again for the gentle admonition. I regret deeply that I have discouraged more brothers and sisters than I had hoped to encourage. This mailing comes as proof that the Spirit has admonished me as well and severely.
Satan's seed is very hard to dislodge completely, at the least opening he steps in, I deeply regret the opening I afforded him here.
Love
Roy (UK)