Discussions on Nature of God's Character/Justice/Love... Clearing confusion.

[Shadrak-Daniel]

(Changed from original) - Story of Ananias and Saphirrah - now clarified.

Hello guys. I'm trying to get my head around certain stories from the bible to be able to understand why these things happened. The first is the story from Acts 5:1-11 Ananias and Saphirrah. It seems so confusing to me how and why did God killed them for lying? And this follows up is God restoring them? The answer to God restoring them must be surely... but still... :dunno:

Any thoughts on this?

[sheila]

 :2c:God was dealing with the advesary that had ensconced itself in Annaisa nd Sapphira[liar/theif/murderer spirit that had entered their

temple/body]it had come to rob GOD and spiritually kill[make dead to God]A and S and the whole new body of believers]

Father sent that evil spirit packing and brought A and S home...you could say Jesus broke up that wicked work of the devil[liar]

rather quickly!

[sheila]

p.s.Father desires we worship Him in correct/right[eous] spirit[Holy]and truth...not with 'offspring of viper' spirit[religious hypocrisy]that

had ensconced itself in the religious leaders in Jerusalem,like the sadducees/Pharisees etc. like mere appearance of holiness outwardly

but inwardly hypocritical liar spirit :2c:

[Shadrak-Daniel]

Thank you... That makes sense.  :iagree: And the Spirit confirms this in my heart. It is my anxiety that plays trick on me.
I've been listening to some sermons preached by Brad Jersak. And he explains very well many questions that one might have.  :dsunny:

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

Amen.. :thumbsup: He shall correct (kolasis) "all" because perfect never ever "misses the mark" (greek meaning translated sin).

"God knows how to preserve the unjust for correction/kolasis on day" (age?) "of judgment". 2 Pet.2:9

Jesus said that "all in the tombs/graves will hear His voice, and come forth from them.. some to the resurrection of Life, and some to the one of judgment" Jn.5:28-29
     :banana: :cloud9:

Recently I've been wondering if "those who do good" the ... in verse 28 or 29, He reaches at the moment just before death...(?) And thus "those who do good" (as opposed to "those who do evil") would rise from their tombs/graves in the "first resurrection" - which might explain a question of what shall we be doing during "the thousand years" after Jesus' return/"appearing".. and begins His long second advent - of the millennium, "the judgment" (Day of Atonement?) and up to when the Father "makes all things new" becoming "all in all" when He "creates the new heavens/kosmos and earth" via the elements melting in a ferocious heat - a lake of fire? - "wherein righteousness will dwell" (Tabernacles?) - because Love will totally rule!..

"Missing the mark" is a pestilence! A disease and it spreads rapidly(?) hence the animal kingdom so quickly went predatory... And Cain, first generation, killed Abel. ...And ever since then.. SO many people dying "still in their sins" and all awaiting their day of atonement, for Jesus said He will draw all (Jn.12:32). Our day of atonement being "today"..

Look how strict Father Most High was with Israel.. as a place prepared for Messiah's first appearing.. stoning for sins.. no one has to touch or come close to the 'infected' one.. Harsh? yes. But maybe the lesson we are learning - good from evil / life from death, non-life.. blessing from tribulation.. apocalypse from enduring/abiding - is a very harsh yet necessary learning..

Whether "those who do good" are drawn at their death I don't know. I don't believe any thing until I read it in God's Word.. tho I have been pondering this, at end of Mark 7 "He heals even those who cannot hear, and cannot speak" considering the metaphor of it, which was said after His literal/earthly healing of one 'deaf and dumb' as it is called..

Over the course of "the judgment" - ? - "ALL the ends of Earth shall remember - hebrew sense, come to their senses - and will turn to the LORD, and ALL families will worship/rejoice before Him" Ps.22:27.

1 Cor.15:22-28 w/ Mt.13:33?  (order of resurrection(s) also Rev.20) --> to the "all in all" Spirit/Presence of God.. "the lion will eat straw like the ox, the bear will be seen grazing with the cow" - Is.7:11. :dsunny:

:Peace2: :girlheart:

[Shadrak-Daniel]

Thank you Marie, This is a good explanation as for why does God seem to immediately shift from kind to harsh in certain texts. As for the Great flood. Turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, Changing the tongues of men in the tower of babel etc... Evident torment caused by sin in the world.

I'm trying to have a clear picture of God since In my heart I know He is love but because of my anxiety i'm finding it difficult to reconcile some of His actions.

Even when the Spirit shows me the answer i seem to need it repeated for a while until i can make sense.

PS: It is absolutely abhorring that when you first type meaning of Kolasis in google or google translate it comes out as a default translation of hell. What in the world is Google thinking? There should be a complaint made!

PS2: Why does Paul say that we should work our salvation with fear and trembling? When you look up the concordance it literally says a state of anguish and fear I.E. panic attacks and night terrors.
In the Jonathan Mitchell New Testament (which is a UR bible) it says that we should work our salvation with reverence and trembling?!?! I'm suffering from anxiety... This doesn't help though...

[jugghead]

PS2: Why does Paul say that we should work our salvation with fear and trembling?

I myself see this a little differently, but this is only my opinion.  For me, it has to do with a few points:

1. That "work out our salvation" is like exercise, just like exercise makes the physical body stronger, so will practice make the spirit stronger
2. The word "with" in its original meaning is "amid" which I see can also be understood as "among"
3. That it also has to do with what Paul previously mentioned about his "absence"

meaning this IMO: practice your salvation among fear and trembling in the absence of the strength of another person, meaning: continue to test yourself in areas you believe you lack strength in, it has to be revealed to our spirit where we lack strength in order for our spirit to become stronger in those areas.

I am a truck driver, and God has used this occupation to strengthen my patience. There are a lot of selfish drivers out on the road and there are quite a few who have no respect for trucks, so when I am out on the road driving, especially closer to cities where there is more traffic, I always have to focus on the fact that I am going to be in situations where I can lose my patience and get angry at other drivers.

If I don't stay focused on being patient in situations where it is needed most, I will certainly lose my patience and get angry. This in itself is working out my salvation, my salvation from getting angry with other people and their driving. And because I now can have more patience in these situations, I can be more patient in other areas.

We gain strength in our spirit by focusing on His Spirit of whatever we need, He knows what we need before we ask and that is because it has already been revealed to our spirit what we need, for we cannot ask for what we need unless what we need is first revealed to our spirit.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, His Spirit and our spirit become one to get us through our situations of weakness, thus, if we feel He is not with us at times (in absence), we still retain the strength He gave us previously, for the gifts He gives us are irrevocable.

We need to constantly examine ourselves and test ourselves, test our own spirit, so that we can strengthen it through the Spirit of Christ which He promised He would send every time we ask in our own weaknesses.

We were all weak in understanding, and by you asking for understanding, your spirit of understanding is becoming stronger and by this strength, you are working out our own salvation from the spirit of ignorance in this world and it is constantly becoming weaker, thus the end result will be that it will no longer have any power over us, it will die in us and when it dies "in" us, the spirit of ignorance in the world can no longer touch us.

We may be "in" (among) a world of ignorance (and many other things), but we are not "of" that world

my  :2c:

[sheila]

 :2c:Matt 5;25  andJames2;19  [2 Sam24;1]

The above scriptures for reasoning on working/walking out own salvation.


  Our Father is known as a terrible God unto satan and his demonic spirits. They are aware of their final judgement[tares to be consumed

in the LOF/consummation]. All in Adam have bore the corrupt image/likeness, being involved in 'sin works' or the works of the devil,to

various degrees..when taken captive of the devil to do his will.


   The Father has stated our own iniquity will reprove us,and He does discipline us...that we be not destroyed with the wicked ones[satan

and his demonic spirits in LOF]  When our Father was not pleased with Israel....He would raise up an adversary against them...

this adversary/accuser/temptor...would humble Israel. We find that when we keep His commands and ways we prosper and dwell

securely in the land.


   We agree quickly with the adversary[satan accuser of guilt for being involved in sin works or 'works of the devil"while on our way to

the judge[where we must give an account]] for satan loves nothing better than that we be imprisoned and receive the death penalty

if we be deceived/tempted or fall through his various spiritual warfare tactics and he overcome us.  Thus we examine ourselves......

and an unclean conscious[which is satan accusing us in mental spiritual warfare of failing/guilt],we make petition unto God and have and

advocate in Christ for mercy  and forgiveness on the matter..and hopefully,we become a little wiser to the devils ways.


Christ's cross worked the removal of all sin from man.'I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven"[Rev 16;18]And fulfills the request

made unto God for a clean conscious....Just what is this clean conscious...and the blotting out of all sin? IT IS SOMETHING VERY

WONDERFUL...AND IT IS PART OF OUR GLORY AND INHERITANCE IN CHRIST'S/FATHER'S IMAGE..


In our present state of spiritual warfare...we must subject every thought unto Christ...because of the adversary[negative contrast]

which has power to put negative thoughts notof God...either to or in our minds. Have you ever felt guilty for a thought that come

into your mind? Lot was vexed in spirit by the filthy conversations in Sodom and gomorrha.These things make us feel defiled...and

their origin and source is satan and his demonic spirits.Thus'sin-a demon spirit]entered man[-the temple of God..made for God's spirit to

dwell in] Ezekielch7and8ch 7v 10 I saw portrayed all over the walls....this is the walls of your minds..the thoughts of the

negative contrast wicked one.  Whoever defiles/destroys God's temple God will destroy....


ch 10 shows God's glory departing the temple...that is a portrayl of All in Adam bearing the corrupt image instead of the image and glory

of God.

Jesus took a scourge and overturned the tables...and drove out the lying/robber spirits of His Father's House.Our temple/body

is to be a place of conversations /communion with God in heaven. The offering of the swine flesh on the altar in

the temple symbolized demonic evil spirit legions entering man's body/defiling it..and altering God's love nature in man.....

. bringing death and destruction.unto.the temple of which God's spirit dwells....and alienating God from man's affections.


Jesus stated...destroy this temple[Word of God come in flesh/or conversations/communion with God]] and I will

raise it up.He also said...If I be raised up,I will draw all men unto me.


   And so,He has done just that.....and when we are raised up in Glory the truly clean/pure/holy conscious is ours. Great peace and joy,

all our thoughts will be His thoughts.I suppose you could say we are corrected/sanctified by the LOF in a way.But His HOLY SPIRIT

ALONE DWELLING IN US IS WHAT SANCTIFIES US...And Jesus casting out evil spirits..or JESUS SEPERATING US FROM THE EVIL

SPIRITS AND CASTING THEM INTO LOF[sheep/goats,wheat/tares]

THE LOF COULD BE RECKONED THE SAME AS HIM WASHING OUR FEET..or removing any defilement from us. Especially considering

the adversary is bowing/clinging at our feet at this time...as God/Christ says..I shall cause them to know that I have loved you....REV 3;9

Paul with the serpent clinging to his hand[sin work of killing those belonging to Christ]shows satan and demons are to be shook off into

the fire.

   

   Psalms68;21-23...Our God is a God who saves,from the Sovereign Lord comes escape from death........


     SURELY GOD WILL CRUSH THE HEADS OF HIS ENEMIES[the serpents mind/will/desire to have God destroy man with the

same judgement satan and evil spirits receive-LOF]p.s.it never entered God's heart to burn His children in fire..but it was in satans

heart]

  v23   THAT YOU MAY PLUNGE YOUR FEET IN THE BLOOD OF YOUR FOES...the life is in the blood..satan and demons are the twice dead

they came neither by the water or the blood[waters of Life or blood covenant]John 5;6...they are of another spirit,not of God


   Three bear witness in heaven..the spirit,the water and the blood. The spirit of Christ testifies of the Father...and that the 'little

children" are partakers of flesh and blood,so He likewise partook..and that he is not ashamed to call them brothers.

All men come by blood and water....God must add oil[holy spirit]  Adam also came by the word of God...Let us make man in our image

Man and this whole creation came into being by the  word of God!!the tokogae came into being by the word of God.

at present we have but a token of our spiritual inheritance[what remains of the spirit..faith hope and love].Our Father must add oil/spirit

or we must be born again from above.  When we are fully saturated with oil/spirit...even though we may lie dead in the streets of

Sodom and Egypt...the two wittness/water/blood[flesh] and spirit[third] will stand up..and COME UP HERE! shall be heard..

Michael standing up[who is like God?man made in the image and likeness of God]results in all mankind being delivered[born again from

Above]   The revealing of the sons of God. God does not bring to birth...then close up the womb...HE CAUSES TO DELIVER!!!!


  MAN IS DELIVERED FROM DEATH INTO ETERNAL LIFE BY GOD'S SPIRIT!...COME UP HERE!

      Destroy this temple[flesh and blood....water and the blood/and I[spirit of Christ/God WILL RAISE IT UP]

      For there are three that testify...the Spirit,the water and the blood.

[Shadrak-Daniel]

1. That "work out our salvation" is like exercise, just like exercise makes the physical body stronger, so will practice make the spirit stronger
2. The word "with" in its original meaning is "amid" which I see can also be understood as "among"
3. That it also has to do with what Paul previously mentioned about his "absence"

meaning this IMO: practice your salvation among fear and trembling in the absence of the strength of another person, meaning: continue to test yourself in areas you believe you lack strength in, it has to be revealed to our spirit where we lack strength in order for our spirit to become stronger in those areas.

:iagree: :thumbsup: :friendstu:


@jugghead when i read this i felt as if a wave of clarity and peace just linked everywhere through my brain. Thanx! 
:cloud9: :dsunny: :cloud9:

I'm in for a lot of study...



How do u reply to an ET christian who believes that the Strong's Concordance is the most accurate translation?


@sheila

Thanx.
The way i personally see how ABBA's Judgment works on darkness when my mind is clear is that His very presence causes destruction/torment to those beings who love evil. Or in another way, beings choosing anything else than to have God's will flow through their beings they face the slippery slope of non-being.

His judgment, then i figured, is much like physical consequences I.E. if you punch a wall despite knowing it will break your hand's bones and make you bleed, you still do it then you get what you asked. So, then, i thought applies to spiritual law. If a being chooses darkness instead of God, they choose to hollow themselves out of the bedrock of existence, which causes them to do more evil as they have broken themselves.

I have thought that anyone who unplugs from God on purpose, they slowly loose their spiritual/mental/emotional sanity and this in turn leads to further destruction.

PS: I am personally a Total Restorationist. I walk on the same path that Garry Amirault walked and Origen and Jane Leade and many others. I do indeed believe that at the end of all ages satan would be the last one left in the LOF for a while longer and eventually even he will be restored and recreated into what he was originally intended to be.

When i first got born again i had a substantial amount of visions poured from our Lord Jesus over the course of a month. Mind you back then i had absolutely no knowledge of the bible at all because i simply refused to read it my whole life.

So one of my visions was of Lucifer being the last one to be restored through LOF reconstruction. I even saw the order in which this would happen, first would be the people who sinned despite knowing Jesus, then those who rejected Jesus, then the demons and lastly satan.

I was drowned in the love of our Infinite Daddy and knowing He would end up restoring ALL things to Himself in their proper order because His LOVE nature doesn't give space for permanent destruction of any being.

And just like it says in the bible that every knee would bow whether in heaven, on earth or under the earth (hell) and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father Amen!

And how it also says that through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

I do genuinely believe that Christ's death and resurrection somehow is sufficient to restore the dying spirits of the fallen ones... :cloud9: :Peace2:

And if this seems off topic don't mind it. I opened this topic mostly to be able to ask the big questions freely here where i know i'm surrounded by likeminded spirits.

So this is going to get seriously off topic in the future... well that is the main title of confused in regards to Ananias and Saphirra.
It will still stay on topic of God's nature/actions/goodnes-sverity/restoration plan... :friendstu:

PS: have a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdQwD3pWOX4

[Andrew]

Hi Shadrak

Could you explain the events and feelings surrounding your born-again experience - as much info as your willing to share. I'm very intrigued by the vision you recieved of Satan being restored in the lake of fire so I just want to make sure your born-again experience was legit so I can validate the vision as possibly being true. It would be greatly appreciated.

Also how long after you got saved did you have the LOF vision - is there any way you could have backslid and been on the wrong path when you were given the vision - I'm sorry for my investigative questions but I'm always searching for more evidence that UR is What is acutally true 

Thanks

Andrew

[Shadrak-Daniel]

Hi Andrew. Before anything, if i can help you find out for yourself if UR is the truth i would like to give you some food for thought.
First lets start by telling you that the bible is not inerrant. The idea that the Bible is 100% purely and immaculately translated over the course of 2000 years has come up just 500 years ago in the reformation. Up until then it was known that it is merely the inspired word not the literal word.

We see this, now, in all the translations that have been made.

Now another point: we as humans are made in the image of God who is LOVE.
And i know that the way ET Christians excuse themselves is that we are way to corrupt to trust our own logic - yet it is with our logic that we understand and relate to most of the Bible.

So based on the fact that we pretty much know what love feels like and God being LOVE itself we can already understand God much better than we thought possible. He is a culmination of Fatherly love, Friend's love, Husband/Wife Love and any other Love that can exist come from AGAPE = Unconditional / Universal Love

And now here comes scripture to back up ABBA's Character:

Isaiah 49:15 Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands.

1 John 4:7,8  Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

Now what kind of Love is He?

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.  It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.

Matthew 7:9-11 Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Psalm 86:5 You, YAHWEH, are forgiving and good, abounding in love to all who call to you.

And here is a scripture that disproves an eternal torment kind of God.

Jeremiah 7:31 They have built pagan shrines at Topheth, the garbage dump in the valley of Ben-Hinnom, and there they burn their sons and daughters in the fire. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing!

Now there is quite enough scripture to describe God if read in the right order under the guidance of The Holy Spirit.

And i know that scripture alone is not always sufficient to convince someone that ET is not real because of intense amount of fear put in and throughout church history. Added to that all the convincing hell testimonies (which most of them can be fake, but for those that are real they are one of 2 options: 1 people have been victims of demonic encounters / drug abuse / mental health issues + indoctrination, which can be genetic - information is passed in the DNA believe it or not. 2 in the case of those accompanied by a benevolent miracle such as healing or coming back from the grave, The message is always distorted because of fear, shock, indoctrination - indoctrination affects the soul as well - mental filters or the person is simply looking to become famous and alters the message.

Now another option is that they genuinely come from a hellish spirit realm that is a place of corrective punishment. And that + doctrine can easily make a person believe that what they have seen is eternal hell.

A place that is almost completely devoid of the presence of God does not have the spirit of hope floating around, and if you have been in a serious state of panic attacks like i've been in, you'll know that you don't need to be there in order to believe that this is forever and it is never going to end.
So even if that person was convinced that they knew it is never going to end, was because that is exactly how such a place can feel, only until their sentence ends and they are restored. (but again this is speculative if such places truly exist because of: " I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing!)

And for my vision, it was a back to front set of visions over a periond of 1 - 3 months after i called to God DESPERATELY for help and a second chance at life... like literally!.

And it was followed by a lot of complex set of understandings that back then i heavily doubted as i was studying the bible with an ECT believer pastor...

back to front set of visions is as follows:
first i saw the devil restored to what it was meant to be in the beginning (back then i did not know the bible so i did not know what to make of this. As soon as i started to study the bible i immediately dismissed this vision as a lie) Then i found myself intensely praying to God and was in His presence when i remember making a request that everybody would be taken out of the LOF in the end and that i would be willing to sacrifice myself if that would be necessary, and at that i felt and saw ABBA almost jumping up from the throne in immense Joy at my heart's transformation. That is when i first got the hint.
After a while longer i saw how LOF was kept in a secret place by God and had this strong sensation that it was a sort of a cooking pot which gave me the sensation that things are being recycled there. (dismissed because of ET bible) Then i had a vision of the order in which everyone would come out of the LOF, normal people first, corrupt christians second, demons third, then death and hades destroyed, then Lucifer was left there for a longer time in utter agony and torment untill he was turned to God in the end of all.

3 months ago i stumbled across Garry Amirault and when i saw how the actual words of the bible were translated, that torment meant touchstone, and that LOF was with sulphur, and when Garry said that Paul was describing a process of refinement in the LOF i remembered the intense feeling of stuff being recycled in the LOF when i saw that vision and reluctantly, because of anxiety and indoctrination, realized that God has been telling me all of His plans for the future little by little...

Now i also sensed in the Spirit, how long was the LOF supposed to last for certain beings... It was in the range of trillions of years... in a more poetic wording it came out as a set of eternities if that makes any sense at all...

And here comes my point on when you see a vision it is highly symbolic because of the carnal mind's incapability of understanding the spirit... which links to anyone and everyone having any sort of hell related visions...

PS: My born again experience was a whole month of bliss, peace, unconditional love and a very close relationship of communion with Jesus (wasn't perfect but most days i had that absolute peace and confidence and security followed by a sense that i suddenly love every human being from what i used to hate everybody beforehand...) . Sorry for putting this last...

Hope this helps... :gimmefive: :friendstu:

[Andrew]

Thanks Shadrak

You have a fascinating testimony. "Trillions of years" in the LOF - YIKES!

Just one more question - when you cried out for help - did you give your life to Jesus or repent for your sins as well?


Thanks for that great reply once again and yes it does help


Andrew

[sheila]

 :2c: Dividing light from darkness                       Word of Wisdom from Above.....Mt23,3-4,Mt 13;33 and Proverbs9;1-5

    God's word is sharper than a two-edged sword. Because God has two types of creatures on this earth when He speaks He

speaks to both creatures respectively.[because of unlawful mixing great confusion results as unto who the curses and blessings apply

from the TOKOGAE.

  In Genesis1;4-5,14-18,27-28,,3;14-15  We see Him make divisions of light from darkness.


    Because Christ saw evil spirits dwelling on,in and among men in his day He spoke to both respectively.Mt 16;22-23,Luke 9;54-55

to the demons-Mt 16;28,John8;42-47


   The Life edge of his word he spoke in Mt13;27-31,37-39,John3;14-17,John8;37-38,ch12;34,ch14;3,Gal3;16

Other prophets also directly spoke to demons..Issaih14;4-23,1Peter 1;12 and3;19,

     We do well to direct the strong words of condemnation of the gospel to the demons,addressing them.Luke 16;1-15,1 Cor3;12-23

ch8;12,and ch10;32

I don't curse man made in the image Of God[raised up in Christ's image]into theLOF........However,Jesus does address

satan and the demons as the cursed and sends them into the LOF. .....which was prepared for them.


Isaaih ch 54....ALL THY CHILDREN SHALL BE TAUGHT OF THE LORD AND GREAT SHALL BE THY CHILDRENS PEACE


...............v17NO weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; AND EVERY TONGUE THAT SHALL RISE AGAINST

THEE IN  JUDGEMENT,THOU SHALT CONDEMN.

[Shadrak-Daniel]

Yes, Andrew. I invited Jesus and repented. Heavy repentance. Even apologized for being born that's how bad i felt.
Look up Brad Jersak on what he has to say about welcoming Jesus into your heart. I only found this out recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN9QnjHn22A

And about Jesus invitation in your life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmqrBZW7BYI

As for the harsh and deadly language Jesus uses in many areas of His sermons and Yahweh in the old testament, i am well familiarized with. I have a vague vision of this like i'm seeing through a glass darkly. But in the grand picture even His deadly Judgments come from a place of love. So then in ALL rational thinking the end of all ages is when the devil will be restored as well even if his torments would have to be total obliteration and recreation over and over for trillions of years...

Further evidence for universal reconciliation is found here https://tentmaker.org/blog1/the-restoration-of-all-things/

Also Andrew do not think that the trillions of years in LOF apply to humans. It is a sentence made for the devils. But then again i might be wrong. Remember the filters every human has! I don't really like that much to go into escatology. It makes my brain foggy and this is bad for my focus at times.

The only reason i believe like many others that even the fallen angels will be restored is (besides my visions) That in the bible when it is said that God restores all things, the "all things" is described as literally being everything.

Every knee should bow and every tong confess wheter in heaven (angels/fallen angels), On earth (People and animals maybe?), Under the earth (The dead in hades and damned demons from the abyss)

And when all things are described it is as follows:

Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven (angels/fallen angels) and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Now the puzzle is figuring out the deadly wording God uses when He pronounces Judgment and how that fits in within the picture of overall love and victory of the cross.  :Chinscratch: :Pray:

[Dandelion]

An interesting thread!

I have told myself, and I think I am correct, that the Old Testment, full of death to those who were 'troublemakers', is about death to the body, not burning in Hell, forever.  The death of the body to God, does not hold the same meaning that it has for us. The living and the dead are both just as alive to God. He has access to both, and can see and watch them, always.

Luke 20:38
"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive."

D.

[jabcat]

An interesting thread!

I have told myself, and I think I am correct, that the Old Testment, full of death to those who were 'troublemakers', is about death to the body, not burning in Hell, forever.  The death of the body to God, does not hold the same meaning that it has for us. The living and the dead are both just as alive to God. He has access to both, and can see and watch them, always.

Luke 20:38
"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive."

D.

:2thumbs:

[sheila]

 :2c:I have no problem with reconciling God's love nature with His destroying the wicked ones...as the adversary/satan/evil is NOT of HIS

SPIRIT[the living one]It is like an A.I.without LIFE...it is not alive,nor has it ever had life,but a tool...to serve as a negative contrast.

    Do you feel guilty/or are you accused of being unloving..when you melt down the componets of a corrupted computer/ A.I.or an Alexa

etc?Men are working on artificial consciousness machines/robots and such at present. Back in Jesus day He had many

things to speak to His disciples..but they could not bear it then.Now,men can bear this mystery of iniquity.

   EVERY BREATHING THING...WITH THE BREATH OF LIFE IS RESTORED.

[Shadrak-Daniel]

It is like an A.I.without LIFE

Huh... Now that you put it this way... It does make some sense.
But you have to put it this way: In the Bible the fallen angels are also described as God's Sons.
When the Sons of God came into the women and made offspring that grew into giants.

I would presume that the angels are not mere robots. And that they too are sentient, emotional, free willing creatures which can fall and be redeemed.

Angels seem to behave in many areas of the bible as being very human like. Read the book of Enoch which you can only find in the apocrypha. The book of Enoch will tell you more about angels.

[sheila]

 :2c:Rev 1;17,18  FEAR NOT;I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST.  I AM HE THAT LIVETH,ANDWAS DEAD,AND BEHOLD I AM ALIVE

FOR EVERMORE,AMEN;AND I HAVE THE KEYS OF HELL AND DEATH.  WRITE THE THINGS WHICH THOU HAST SEEN,AND THE

THINGS WHICH ARE.

[sheila]

 :2c:  Should robots have rights?People are discussing the rights of A.I...the daily beast ...Authoritarian Ethos and A.I rights policies

submitted by Hyretics.on  Stellaris/granted stellaris is sci-fi...but I tell you the truth is stranger than fiction.

Isaaih ch 28....God's strange work......... v 16-21

[sheila]

 :2c:  Satan presumed he was like God/a god,just of a different nature.The revealing of the sons of God reveals to satan just what he is.

NOT A SON. The faithful angels that are the children of God do not sin against nature/God or man..or any of God's creation.

  War broke out in heaven because of the enmity between the two natures...the serpents seed and the womans...and satan and his

were thrown out. Two seeds in heaven..and one is not of God.


  when one of these offspring of vipers come into a a daughter of man's flesh..they corrupt the coding of the body God designed

with it' s instructions to make the human body.Pituatary tumour cause gigantism. This because the parasitic demons plan to dwell in that

flesh body..and they want it bigger and stronger then other men.Men of renown/gods etc/roman/greek etc manipulated for stregthetc

God gave Samson supernatural strength,alsoby His spirit. We have heard police describe this supernatural strength, also,when

dealing with some poor possessed man out of his mind;as well as the man with legions possesing him.

when God places a spirit/life seed in a womans womb... the flesh of her husband and her contribute a tiny sliver of

genetic instructions to build up/raise up a human body around it[clothe it in a clay vessel]but God causes it to grow.


Thus we have the good seed God sows in the fields of this earth..and the seed of the wicked enemy being sown in the same field.

It is not pleasant to face the spiritual reality of what we are dealing with at the present time. BUT  VERY SOON...JESUS AND HIS

ANGELS WILL  BURN the tares...AND GATHER US HOME.  Satan is bound to this earth like a ball and chain..awaiting his final destruction.


Isaaih 66;15,16 SEE,theLORD IS COMING WITH FIRE, AND HIS CHARIOTS ARE LIKE A WHIRLWIND;HEWILL BRING DOWN HIS ANGER

WITH FURY, AND HIS REBUKE WITH FLAMES OF FIRE. FOR WITH FIRE AND WITH HIS SWORD[TWO-EDGED] THE LORDWILL EXECUTE

JUDGEMENT ON ALL MEN.[Rev 20;9]

[Shadrak-Daniel]

What's the point of this bible war here Sheila?  :Chinscratch:

You all of the sudden turned into a hostile fire and brimstone preacher to try to destroy some ideas that the very founders of tentmaker would agree with and defend in a much more calm way.

There is nothing else but what God created. and anything that God creates He does not permanently destroy. Besides you gave an argument that describes the destruction of men at the end.

I'm not going to argue with you on these subjects because your attitude displayed here is not much different than those Christians that i know already who would be preaching mad hell fire and brimstone down any universalist they would find.

The way you seem to have explained yourself the creation is that of there being two different beings in the beginning one being God and the other the devil...

Bad news: there was nothing in eternity past but The Father, The Son/Word and The Holy Spirit... They first made the heavens and all its hosts including angels among which there was Lucifer who in the beginning was blameless. But because of self love and pride He became the Devil. That is exactly how God describes how evil originally came into existence. By a Blameless and good creation of God who had free will, chose to turn from Loving God to loving self.

This process happened during eons of time during which God would make the physical universe and Earth...
And precisely because God created everything and by His Nature, He will never destroy anything forever. He will always recycle, enhance, repair and create new and better things. That's simply who He is...

And do not bother to post anything else if you plan to post it in caps lock to give the hint of angry shouting and fighting a bible war where there is in fact a discussion to clear out God's true nature. Not to throw hell fire and brimstone on arguments that anger people. :sigh: :Pray:

[jabcat]

I think there may be some misunderstanding here about what's truly believed or being said, that a little more careful conversation can help clear up.

And if we'll all remember to post in the spirit of "I believe/in my opinion" it can probably clear up quicker.   :)

[sheila]

First....I'm not yeling......I use caps for emphasis..because I can't 'bold' etc on my computer. You don't know that,being new poster.

I simply believe all the creation given Life by God shall be restored. But satan and demons are but negative contrast,adversarial tools.

  :2c:   This earth is stored up for fire.Just as in the days of LOT.GOD will remove His lot/redeemed[all living breathing creations]

before He burns it and satan/demons and this part of the cosmos becomes the LOF.

I was never angry or intent on arguing with you at anytime while posting...this or any other post to you.