ya Know Guys# we all growing, sometimes are words maybe perceived to Be harsh and INsulting~ im sure many here mean they DONT do this Purposely~ even so, its how its perceived
well heres the Reality~~ if walk In the Spirit, the Flesh is dead# as Its only the Flesh[ sences] which take offence~ so ask yourself thye next time when YOU ,Yes YOU\US feel Insulted~ Stephen is a Witness to US ALL, who states "NO CHARGE" to their account ~ as its only the Ignorance of the Flesh which is offended~~ Shalom
:icon_flower:
I ask THIS~ How can LOVE take OFFENCE?
Shalom, Taffy!
Jesus Christ, the firstborn Son of God, is the Prince of Peace. Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, resides within His elect, the body of Christ.
With Christ in our lives God has given us the role of peacemakers in this world. Has it occurred to you what it is a peacemaker does?
A peacemaker is expected to MAKE PEACE! If you fulfill what Jesus said about peacemakers, you will be blessed indeed. You will be called the sons of God!
The nature of your Father will be recognized in your life, and acknowledged.
In order to be a peacemaker you must become involved in legitimate conflicts. In this world, if you truly want to be blessed in the Kingdom dimension of the term, you have to encounter crises and conflicts and get involved in them so that you can change the conflict into a peaceful situation.
You can do it even now, for the spirit of sonship is already within you! If you are not willing to become a peacemaker in the nitty-gritty of everyday life, don't think that in some future blaze of glory you will suddenly become qualified to be a peacemaker on behalf of nations and principalities and powers.
Comfort does not make peace. The peace that we experience in the absence of conflict is not Kingdom peace.
Anybody can have peace when all is going well and there are no cross-currents, opposition, trouble or conflict. Learn this and you will know a great truth:
Peace is more than the absence of war.
The peace of God is unaffected by any external conditions.
If your peace flees in the face of trouble and calamity, what you have is not peace — it is merely the calm between storms.
Quote from: Taffy on November 03, 2011, 03:17:05 AM
:icon_flower:
I ask THIS~ How can LOVE take OFFENCE?
Love takes nothing!
Love is in the perpetual state of giving.
Love only receives because it is loved back.
My Friend~ PEACE and Shalom to YOU~ :icon_flower:
I am not attempting to be insulting or harsh, but I just want to ask that should a christian say the word "peace" in Hebrew as "shalome," make the word anymore powerful or more sacred? I would ask the same about "God" as Jehovah or Elohim. Or Jesus as Yesu or Yeshua? I ask mainly because I have met people who believe that by doing so, they are or at least feel/think they are somewhat more superior or holy or at the least more knowledgeable. Thanks :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Most know that the Hebrew word shalom is understood around the world to mean "peace." However, "peace" is only one small part of the meaning of shalom. "Shalom" is used to both greet people and to bid them farewell, and it means much more than "peace, hello or goodbye"....
According to Strong's Concordance 7965 Shalom also means completeness, wholeness, health, peace, welfare, safety soundness, tranquility, prosperity, perfectness, fullness, rest, harmony, the absence of agitation or discord. Shalom comes from the root verb shalom meaning to be complete, perfect and full. In modern Hebrew the obviously related word Shelem means to pay for, and Shulam means to be fully paid.
Yeshua is called Sar shalom, Prince of Peace, which perfectly describes the ministry and personality of our Messiah (Isaiah 9:6).
In other words, the word shalom is a mighty blessing!
Proverbs 18:21 tells us there is life or death in the power of the tongue. Therefore, whenever you employ the word "shalom" you are speaking into someone's life all the wonderful things that shalom means!
In the meantime:
Numbers 6:24-26: YAHWEH bless you and keep you. YAHWEH make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you. YAHWEHlift up His face upon you and give you SHALOM. In the name of SAR SHALOM - the Prince of Peace
There are no sacred or spellbinding words except those exhaled by the Lord.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 03, 2011, 03:36:22 AM
There are no sacred or spellbinding words except those exhaled by the Lord.
:icon_flower:
Im only asking, so then should one who believes in Jesus Christ and is His younger brother of sister, who is American, that the word peace spoken, this word is empty of all this: completeness, wholeness, health, peace, welfare, safety soundness, tranquility, prosperity, perfectness, fullness, rest, harmony, the absence of agitation or discord. Shalom comes from the root verb shalom meaning to be complete, perfect and full. In modern Hebrew the obviously related word Shelem means to pay for, and Shulam means to be fully paid.
And the word "peace" does not carry the significance of "shalome?" And the word peace spoken by someone who believes and does not say "shalome," that it is not a "mighty blessing?"
So then, Num 6:24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
Num 6:25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
Num 6:26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Then the name Lord here is empty of, "In the name of SAR SHALOM - the Prince of Peace?"
I dont see a difference when one believes. I am not Hebrew speaking person, I understand the word "peace" when I speak it to mean "completeness, wholeness, health, peace, welfare, safety soundness, tranquility, prosperity, perfectness, fullness, rest, harmony, the absence of agitation or discord. Shalom comes from the root verb shalom meaning to be complete, perfect and full. In modern Hebrew the obviously related word Shelem means to pay for, and Shulam means to be fully paid."
Am in error? So Beloved you see then? "There are no sacred or spellbinding words except those exhaled by the Lord."
I do!
Everything else is Voodoo!
The Kingdom of God is peace — peace in the heart, peace of soul, peace with God, peace between men, peace between nations.
What is peace? Is peace real? What is its appearance? Have you ever seen peace? Is it long or short? Is it fat or skinny?
Peace is His Spirit. You cannot see peace apart from its effect upon people and circumstances. You can know when peace is present. You can sense peace, but you cannot touch or handle it.
There is more than one level of peace. There is a soulish peace which men experience in a psychological way. It is a peace generated out of the conditioning or influencing of the mind, will, emotions and desires. It is the peace attained on a restful vacation, in the silence of the evening watching a sunset, relaxing at night after the kids are all tucked in or hiking a mountain trail.
These and many other things give peace — but none of them have anything whatsoever to do with the Kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God is not just peace — it is peace IN THE HOLY GHOST. It is God's peace. It is heaven's peace. It is divine peace. It is peace that passeth understanding.
It is peace that rules our lives and keeps our hearts in the very midst of calamity, pain, disappointment, trouble, problems, difficulties and testings. It is a peace so deep that it comes only out of the spirit. It holds us steady, calm and confident in the blasts of hell.
It is peace in the Holy Ghost. It is the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven!
QuoteThe Kingdom of God is peace — peace in the heart, peace of soul, peace with God, peace between men, peace between nations.
:icon_flower:
No Barriers, No distinction, no denominations etall~ For we are ONE~~ Oh people SEE THE
BIG PICTURE~WE ARE IN iIT and the IT is a HIM~
PEACE G1515 eirēnē primary verb εἴρω eirō (to join); peace (literally or figuratively); by implication prosperity: - one, peace, quietness, rest, + set at one again.
H7999
שׁלם
shâlam
BDB Definition:
1) to be in a covenant of peace, be at peace
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be at peace
1a2) peaceful one (participle)
1b) (Pual) one in covenant of peace (participle)
1c) (Hiphil)
1c1) to make peace with
1c2) to cause to be at peace
1d) (Hophal) to live in peace
2) to be complete, be sound
2a) (Qal)
2a1) to be complete, be finished, be ended
2a2) to be sound, be uninjured
2b) (Piel)
2b1) to complete, finish
2b2) to make safe
2b3) to make whole or good, restore, make compensation
2b4) to make good, pay
2b5) to requite, recompense, reward
2c) (Pual)
2c1) to be performed
2c2) to be repaid, be requited
2d) (Hiphil)
2d1) to complete, perform
2d2) to make an end of
PEACE...I understand and See. AT ONE
YAHWEH-SHALOM — Yahweh send peace
JEHOVAH-SHALOM — the Coming One, thy Peace.
God's name is His nature.
THE SELF-EXISTENT ONE.
THE ETERNAL.
THE PRINCE OF PEACE.
He bore so much, so that we could be one. The offense was ours. He forgave it :o) The life was the light of men, but men loved darkness rather than light.
If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
"The offense was ours." Eaglesway Explain please.
We are so easily offended. Yet he forgave, and forgives all our offenses. If anyone has a right to take offense it would be Jesus. He didn't. Yet, we reserve the right to take offense, and do.
Quote from: eaglesway on November 03, 2011, 06:58:39 AM
We are so easily offended. Yet he forgave, and forgives all our offenses. If anyone has a right to take offense it would be Jesus. He didn't. Yet, we reserve the right to take offense, and do.
I do not take offense.
Quote from: eaglesway on November 03, 2011, 06:58:39 AM
We are so easily offended. Yet he forgave, and forgives all our offenses. If anyone has a right to take offense it would be Jesus. He didn't. Yet, we reserve the right to take offense, and do.
John, do you believe taking offense and being hurt are necessarily the same thing? What I mean is, yes, I agree, we should work on not taking offense and continue forgiving. However, don't you believe we can hurt each other with our words and attitudes toward each other? There sure is a lot of instruction about the tongue and about our words.
I'm thinking of this; if a man's wife, without any indication, suddenly told him "I hate you, you're a terrible husband, you're not worth my time and I'm laughing at you. I'm leaving you tonight, I'm moving in with another man"... Is it just that man's pride that's hurt or "cut" at that point? I don't think so. I think it can be 2 different things. Of course he would need to take it to the Lord, work on forgiving her/not punishing her, not let his pride get in the way of
anything .. But again, people do have feelings, we can wound and make others stumble through our words. There is much admonition about it. And IMO, taking the stance that "oh well, it's just their pride getting hurt, not my problem, God's doing it", doesn't absolve us of the responsibility. :2c:
I like that.
And I appreciate that. I've struggled a bit today. Thank you. Blessings. :HeartThrob:
And God, thank You for this day.
Quote from: jabcat on November 03, 2011, 08:07:25 AM
Quote from: eaglesway on November 03, 2011, 06:58:39 AM
We are so easily offended. Yet he forgave, and forgives all our offenses. If anyone has a right to take offense it would be Jesus. He didn't. Yet, we reserve the right to take offense, and do.
John, do you believe taking offense and being hurt are necessarily the same thing? What I mean is, yes, I agree, we should work on not taking offense and continue forgiving. However, don't you believe we can hurt each other with our words and attitudes toward each other? There sure is a lot of instruction about the tongue and about our words.
I'm thinking of this; if a man's wife, without any indication, suddenly told him "I hate you, you're a terrible husband, you're not worth my time and I'm laughing at you. I'm leaving you tonight, I'm moving in with another man"... Is it just that man's pride that's hurt or "cut" at that point? I don't think so. I think it can be 2 different things. Of course he would need to take it to the Lord, work on forgiving her/not punishing her, not let his pride get in the way of anything .. But again, people do have feelings, we can wound and make others stumble through our words. There is much admonition about it. And IMO, taking the stance that "oh well, it's just their pride getting hurt, not my problem, God's doing it", doesn't absolve us of the responsibility. :2c:
I never cared much for hypothetical illustrations but I'll play the game.
In this instance I would immediately conclude the the man has been giving her reason to leave for years and that the time has finally come for her to leave.
If he is hurt, it is simply because he is still ruled by his own emotions and Christ is not sitting on the throne of his life;
The Prince of Peace brings solace beyond all understanding.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 03, 2011, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: jabcat on November 03, 2011, 08:07:25 AM
Quote from: eaglesway on November 03, 2011, 06:58:39 AM
We are so easily offended. Yet he forgave, and forgives all our offenses. If anyone has a right to take offense it would be Jesus. He didn't. Yet, we reserve the right to take offense, and do.
John, do you believe taking offense and being hurt are necessarily the same thing? What I mean is, yes, I agree, we should work on not taking offense and continue forgiving. However, don't you believe we can hurt each other with our words and attitudes toward each other? There sure is a lot of instruction about the tongue and about our words.
I'm thinking of this; if a man's wife, without any indication, suddenly told him "I hate you, you're a terrible husband, you're not worth my time and I'm laughing at you. I'm leaving you tonight, I'm moving in with another man"... Is it just that man's pride that's hurt or "cut" at that point? I don't think so. I think it can be 2 different things. Of course he would need to take it to the Lord, work on forgiving her/not punishing her, not let his pride get in the way of anything .. But again, people do have feelings, we can wound and make others stumble through our words. There is much admonition about it. And IMO, taking the stance that "oh well, it's just their pride getting hurt, not my problem, God's doing it", doesn't absolve us of the responsibility. :2c:
I never cared much for hypothetical illustrations but I'll play the game.
In this instance I would immediately conclude the the man has been giving her reason to leave for years and that the time has finally come for her to leave.
If he is hurt, it is simply because he is still ruled by his own emotions and Christ is not sitting on the throne of his life;
The Prince of Peace brings solace beyond all understanding.
OK, if you wish to continue (and since it's my suggested scenario :) I left that part out. I agree that's often the case of "him having given a reason". But in this case, he was a faithful, Godly husband...the actions were all hers and whatever else was influencing her. Any scenario that can be imagined that he was truly innocent of all wrongdoing in the marriage, do you believe he still shouldn't be hurt?
We most certainly can hurt others with our words and actions. This kind of thinking allows us to blame the victim.
A man beats his wife...yet she shouldn't be hurt or offended.
A woman verbally abuses her husband...it's ok he shouldn't be offended...or hurt.
And while the pinnacle of spiritual perfection is indeed Jesus, and should be our goal...most of us are not immune to being hurt or offended. And adding shame
for feeling hurt onto the victim's shoulders brings about much dysfunctional compensation.
I will agree that as we progress in spiritual maturity we are offended less easily...have an ability to love despite being treated poorly etc...but to tell someone they
are not entitled to feel pain as a result of another human beings actions...only brings shame and condemnation heaping injury upon insult literally.
Quote from: jabcat on November 03, 2011, 06:56:48 PM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on November 03, 2011, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: jabcat on November 03, 2011, 08:07:25 AM
Quote from: eaglesway on November 03, 2011, 06:58:39 AM
We are so easily offended. Yet he forgave, and forgives all our offenses. If anyone has a right to take offense it would be Jesus. He didn't. Yet, we reserve the right to take offense, and do.
John, do you believe taking offense and being hurt are necessarily the same thing? What I mean is, yes, I agree, we should work on not taking offense and continue forgiving. However, don't you believe we can hurt each other with our words and attitudes toward each other? There sure is a lot of instruction about the tongue and about our words.
I'm thinking of this; if a man's wife, without any indication, suddenly told him "I hate you, you're a terrible husband, you're not worth my time and I'm laughing at you. I'm leaving you tonight, I'm moving in with another man"... Is it just that man's pride that's hurt or "cut" at that point? I don't think so. I think it can be 2 different things. Of course he would need to take it to the Lord, work on forgiving her/not punishing her, not let his pride get in the way of anything .. But again, people do have feelings, we can wound and make others stumble through our words. There is much admonition about it. And IMO, taking the stance that "oh well, it's just their pride getting hurt, not my problem, God's doing it", doesn't absolve us of the responsibility. :2c:
I never cared much for hypothetical illustrations but I'll play the game.
In this instance I would immediately conclude the the man has been giving her reason to leave for years and that the time has finally come for her to leave.
If he is hurt, it is simply because he is still ruled by his own emotions and Christ is not sitting on the throne of his life;
The Prince of Peace brings solace beyond all understanding.
OK, if you wish to continue (and since it's my suggested scenario :) I left that part out. I agree that's often the case of "him having given a reason". But in this case, he was a faithful, Godly husband...the actions were all hers and whatever else was influencing her. Any scenario that can be imagined that he was truly innocent of all wrongdoing in the marriage, do you believe he still shouldn't be hurt?
He should be rejoicing that God took the stumbling block out of his path.
I do not believe taking offense and getting hurt are the same thing. I think taking offense is one way to respond to getting hurt. Taking offense means what it reads. TAKING OFFENSE, in other words- we hold onto an offense in one or more of several ways, such as unforgiveness/bitterness, responding agressively and judgmentally to those who "offend" us, "making an issue" of something we should let go by with forbearance and understanding. Ouur point of view is not so important as we think it is. When our ego is mixed up in what we believe, our self esteem intertwined with what we think we kno, offenses abound because they are unavoidable- we are holding our revelation in the flesh.
If I am getting hurt I can go to God and/or my trusted counselors/friends and wrestle with it until wisdom comes. If I "take offense" I have already given the highest counsel to my flesh. One of the things that keeps us apart as believers is that we are so easily offended. It is the surest evidence of immaturity.
2Ti 2:24-26 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
Jas 3:13-18 Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. (14) But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. (15) This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. (16) For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. (17) But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. (18) And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
Taking offense leads to fighting evil with evil, flesh with flesh. We are to overcome evil with good, so certainly, within the house of faith, where the issue is not so much evil vs evil, but rather differing points of view- we ought to be able to carry on a discourse without judgmental invectives and condescending attitudes towards those who disagree with us. The anger of man does not accomplish the righteousness of God.
I am not saying we are to be Mr. Spock either :o). We get hurt, we bleed, we cry, we get angry- but let that anger be without sin and let me not become the center of my pain. If our will is "centered in our spirit" then the water of life will come out when we get "squeezed". If our will is centered in our mind, there will be a conduit to the flesh and when we get squeezed the flesh will come out. When Jesus was crucified all that came out of him was blood, water and spirit.
Our goal(high and seemingly impossible as it might seem) is to emulate him, being partakers of the divine nature, born from above by an incorruptible seed unto a sincere love of the brethren.
Beautiful post :HeartThrob:
Thanks y'all :hihat:
Quote from: eaglesway on November 04, 2011, 06:59:27 AM
I do not believe taking offense and getting hurt are the same thing. I think taking offense is one way to respond to getting hurt. Taking offense means what it reads. TAKING OFFENSE, in other words- we hold onto an offense in one or more of several ways, such as unforgiveness/bitterness, responding agressively and judgmentally to those who "offend" us, "making an issue" of something we should let go by with forbearance and understanding. Ouur point of view is not so important as we think it is. When our ego is mixed up in what we believe, our self esteem intertwined with what we think we kno, offenses abound because they are unavoidable- we are holding our revelation in the flesh.
If I am getting hurt I can go to God and/or my trusted counselors/friends and wrestle with it until wisdom comes. If I "take offense" I have already given the highest counsel to my flesh. One of the things that keeps us apart as believers is that we are so easily offended. It is the surest evidence of immaturity.
2Ti 2:24-26 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
Jas 3:13-18 Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. (14) But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. (15) This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. (16) For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. (17) But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. (18) And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
Taking offense leads to fighting evil with evil, flesh with flesh. We are to overcome evil with good, so certainly, within the house of faith, where the issue is not so much evil vs evil, but rather differing points of view- we ought to be able to carry on a discourse without judgmental invectives and condescending attitudes towards those who disagree with us. The anger of man does not accomplish the righteousness of God.
I am not saying we are to be Mr. Spock either :o). We get hurt, we bleed, we cry, we get angry- but let that anger be without sin and let me not become the center of my pain. If our will is "centered in our spirit" then the water of life will come out when we get "squeezed". If our will is centered in our mind, there will be a conduit to the flesh and when we get squeezed the flesh will come out. When Jesus was crucified all that came out of him was blood, water and spirit.
Our goal(high and seemingly impossible as it might seem) is to emulate him, being partakers of the divine nature, born from above by an incorruptible seed unto a sincere love of the brethren.
I will agree with your statement, yet when opinions and our imaginations begin to be "the answer" in debates, arguments, and disagreements within subjects where all, are only going on their opinions and imaginations, then offence, is the hurt of ego, it is taken with offence. Everything is relevant. What I may find relevant to something, maybe quite different from what someone else may see as relevant. This forum is about seeking what truths I, you, or someone else may be allowed to find or see that holds understanding to God's Word; we all "feel" that God through His Holy Spirit showed us, enlightened us and then we all proceed to bring forth what we have been given. And through this process we sift and winnow, and within that curriculum, I believe we find both offence and hurt. My only offence is that we go off topic very quickly and I am only hurt when told we did not. Should this post have gone off the topic of the confession topic then I was in error. :HeartThrob:
like I said,beautiful post.
however I beleive we need to address the issue of not OBEYING CHRIST when we are rude unloving sarcastic,demeaning.Surely we should be about
the 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you' Better an open rebuke than a hidden love. Surely we who endeavour to follow cHRIST
SHOULD NOT DESPISE ANY MAN.
WHERE NONE OF US ARE 'PERFECT' TRAMPLING ON OTHERS ON THE BOARD IS NOT SOMETHING CHRISTIANS SHOULD JUST 'WINK' AT SURELY..
OR HYPERCRITICALITY TOLERATED CONSTANT FAULTFINDING.
I SPEAK OF THSEE MATTERS TO MY LITTLE GRANDCHILDREN ON HOW TO BEHAVE TO OTHERS AND EACH OTHER...SURELY ADULT 'CHRISTIANS'
SHOULD HAVE ALREADY LEARNED THIS...CHRIST 101 LOVE YOUR BROTHER AS YOURSELF.
HEY,IF I WERE GOING ABOUT GETTING OUT OF HAND..I WOULD HOPE AND PRAY SOME-ONE WOULD CALL ME TO MY SENSES
GOD HIMSELF WILL JUDGE BETWEEN A SHEEP AND A SHEEP
Excellent sheila. Much said about things like not taking offense ("love does not keep a record of wrongdoing"), and forgiveness 70X7. All in which I need the Lord's help to grow - His grace, mercy, and empowerment.
Also, probably just as much or more said about bridling the tongue and that it is "set on fire of hell, an unruly evil that cannot be tamed. James 3:7, "For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." Ephesians 4:32 Only the Holy Spirit can tame it as we yield to God's leading.
Jesus said it's not what goes into us that defiles us but what comes out. I've done way too much of the former, way too little of the latter, but wiith the tongue are cursings and blessings; "There is one who speaks like the piercings of a sword, But the tongue of the wise promotes health" (Proverbs 12:18, New King James Version).
This certainly needs to be my prayer and goal; Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
Quote from: jabcat on November 06, 2011, 07:44:26 PM
Excellent sheila. Much said about things like not taking offense ("love does not keep a record of wrongdoing"), and forgiveness 70X7.
Also, probably just as much or more said about bridling the tongue and that it is "set on fire of hell, an unruly evil that cannot be tamed. James 3:7, "For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." Ephesians 4:32 Only the Holy Spirit can tame it as we yield to God's leading.
Jesus said it's not what goes into us that defiles us but what comes out. I've done way too much of the former, way too little of the latter, but wiith the tongue are cursings and blessings; "There is one who speaks like the piercings of a sword, But the tongue of the wise promotes health" (Proverbs 12:18, New King James Version).
This certainly needs to be my prayer and goal; Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
AMEN James~
Its a two way beat~ as at Times folk say or speak without intent to hurt or inflame, as some have pointed out there Just Joking etc ~ but if flesh is easliy offended, it can come to the point where one treads on Egg Shells~ Not really Knowing how your words will be perceived~~~ its Not always Black and white~~ :HeartThrob:
Egg shells could be one way of saying it, or always being careful to be aware to speak in love and not attacking is how I've personally been dealt with my own smart mouth.
Not only have I needed work on not taking offense, I've also needed much work on not just attacking, being a smart aleck, wounding with my words. I still have ways to go, but some of my posts on TM from years ago make me wince. Certainly not an example of "in love preferring one another"...
Quote from: jabcat on November 06, 2011, 08:59:20 PM
Egg shells could be one way of saying it, or always being careful to be aware to speak in love and not attacking.
Not only have I needed work on not taking offense, I've also needed much work on not just attacking, being a smart aleck, wounding with my words. I still have ways to go, but some of my posts on TM from years ago make me wince. Certainly not an example of "in love preferring one another"...
I pray we
all Growing James~ :icon_flower:
:2thumbs:
Quote from: Taffy on November 06, 2011, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: jabcat on November 06, 2011, 07:44:26 PM
Excellent sheila. Much said about things like not taking offense ("love does not keep a record of wrongdoing"), and forgiveness 70X7.
Also, probably just as much or more said about bridling the tongue and that it is "set on fire of hell, an unruly evil that cannot be tamed. James 3:7, "For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." Ephesians 4:32 Only the Holy Spirit can tame it as we yield to God's leading.
Jesus said it's not what goes into us that defiles us but what comes out. I've done way too much of the former, way too little of the latter, but wiith the tongue are cursings and blessings; "There is one who speaks like the piercings of a sword, But the tongue of the wise promotes health" (Proverbs 12:18, New King James Version).
This certainly needs to be my prayer and goal; Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
AMEN James~
Its a two way beat~ as at Times folk say or speak without intent to hurt or inflame, as some have pointed out there Just Joking etc ~ but if flesh is easliy offended, it can come to the point where one treads on Egg Shells~ Not really Knowing how your words will be perceived~~~ its Not always Black and white~~ :HeartThrob:
As long as someone is getting hurt when someone disagrees with them, it is about taking offense and immaturity. When ( and I see this often, as do we all) someone treats others as if they do not agree with them because they are unspiritual, or immature, it is about giving offense. If my words are true, and spoken in love- why would I need to add fleshly invectives or subtle put-downs towards a brother or a sister. Usually the ones who 'give offense' (judging others with sarcasm and/or condescension) are also the first ones to take offense'. This is all about carnality, and being 'babes' in Christ- as Sheila pointed out, we teach our children to behave reasonably and maturely. But as Paul said, "Woe to you who judges others while doing the same thing yourself". The problem is, as I see it, when we try to 'teach' others how they should behave, without praying for them or really caring for their souls. Sorta like disciplining a child you never spend time with or gently nurture- they will eventually react with stubborness :o)
"If you see a brother or sister comitting a sin that is not unto death, pray for them, and God will give them life for their sin."
Not a reply to anyone post.
I do accept the assumption that there is a "second coming" of Jesus Christ.
I do not accept the assumption that the "soul" is the woman.
I do not accept that the assumtion of "created in in His image and likeness, male and female" is
as finished work.
Nor do I accept the assumption that Gen. 1 is a completed work.
I cannot accept the assumption that the "carnal mind" is satan/ adversary.
These are just some of why I, me, personally find these assumptions built on as tho this
is where one must start to learn further, is in error.
I am not led to be silent when these assumptions are posted as a place of a starting to understand.
I believe they are misleading.
Should my language sound gruff, offensive, and make me seem immature
then perhaps my voice should not ne accepted on this forum.
I am not requesting to be banned, but if that is the case, so be it;
but for me, to not come against only just the few, that have been mentioned,
With other thoughts and words that find those assumtions ill thought and even in error, and
should my language and words be taken or recived as hurtful and offensive, I am only sorry that they have been recieved that way.
I have every desire to learn, and help some soul find more of the truth, by the Grace of HIm.
I am very much disturbed as to why, in our realm(human) offence is taken when one raises
oppostion, to what seems to me anyway, as almost a doctrine in error, and how dare anyone be bold
enough to say not so.
YES I DO BELIEVE THAT WHAT HAS BEEN SAID IN THIS POST IS PERTAINING TO ME.
I take no offenence nor am I hurt[ I am agast a times.] I consider this forum as my place to gather an break bread
with is Spirit. I have learned much.
Yet I am not led to be silent, I truly believe that all of us have started out on the wrong foot because we have all
started out with someone elses teaching.
I know there are some who will say no, this was given just to me, I have not read, studied, or recieved it
from any other source. Again here I would be in opposition.
I AWAIT THE DOOR, THE BOOT, THE HOOK what ever option is used.
Peace and Love Through Jesus THE Christ.
micah, no problem disagreeing in a respectful manner. It's when we might "beat each other about the ears", tongue lashing, insulting, name-calling, embarrassing the other person, etc. that there's a problem. I don't think this thread is exclusively for any one of us.
Blessings, James.
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 07, 2011, 04:27:48 AM
Not a reply to anyone post.
I do accept the assumption that there is a "second coming" of Jesus Christ.
I do not accept the assumption that the "soul" is the woman.
I do not accept that the assumtion of "created in in His image and likeness, male and female" is
as finished work.
Nor do I accept the assumption that Gen. 1 is a completed work.
I cannot accept the assumption that the "carnal mind" is satan/ adversary.
These are just some of why I, me, personally find these assumptions built on as tho this
is where one must start to learn further, is in error.
I am not led to be silent when these assumptions are posted as a place of a starting to understand.
I believe they are misleading.
Should my language sound gruff, offensive, and make me seem immature
then perhaps my voice should not ne accepted on this forum.
I am not requesting to be banned, but if that is the case, so be it;
but for me, to not come against only just the few, that have been mentioned,
With other thoughts and words that find those assumtions ill thought and even in error, and
should my language and words be taken or recived as hurtful and offensive, I am only sorry that they have been recieved that way.
I have every desire to learn, and help some soul find more of the truth, by the Grace of HIm.
I am very much disturbed as to why, in our realm(human) offence is taken when one raises
oppostion, to what seems to me anyway, as almost a doctrine in error, and how dare anyone be bold
enough to say not so.
YES I DO BELIEVE THAT WHAT HAS BEEN SAID IN THIS POST IS PERTAINING TO ME.
I take no offenence nor am I hurt[ I am agast a times.] I consider this forum as my place to gather an break bread
with is Spirit. I have learned much.
Yet I am not led to be silent, I truly believe that all of us have started out on the wrong foot because we have all
started out with someone elses teaching.
I know there are some who will say no, this was given just to me, I have not read, studied, or recieved it
from any other source. Again here I would be in opposition.
I AWAIT THE DOOR, THE BOOT, THE HOOK what ever option is used.
Peace and Love Through Jesus THE Christ.
Hi Micah,
I hope you did not think any post I put up was directed towards you or anyone in particular- absolutely, not a single post I put up was directed towards anyone in particular, and I have been richly edified by everyone who has posted in this thread and at various times and in various threads. I, for one, think "open forum" discussion is important to growth, as all the "plantings of the Lord" cross pollinate. I may not agree with certain things- but I sure don't think I have a corner on the truth, and I am subject to "getting in the flesh" in discussions as well- but I do kno there is no reason to do so, so I take correction as the Holy Spirit delivers it, and I try to look between the lines of what my brothers and sisters are saying.
Quote from: jabcat on November 07, 2011, 05:24:41 AM
micah, no problem disagreeing in a respectful manner. It's when we might "beat each other about the ears", tongue lashing, insulting, name-calling, embarrassing the other person, etc. that there's a problem. I don't think this thread is exclusively for any one of us.
Blessings, James.
I would like to agree with you James, but it seems that when ever I rebel these things surface. I do not mind and if it bothers no one else, ok. I do not feel guilty at all in my speak. But I do get a little upset when some things that are said "seem" to be set in stone and to go against that word provokes remarks from me that may be considered what you mentioned above.
I really try to be diplomatic, hate that word.
No problem Eaglesway, I can see and understand what you say. For me, being so long in the reading of the early rain, Hawtin, Warnock, Britton, Eby, and many others who brought us to where we are but knowing that they knew they were pioneers to a greater understanding, to see that some continue to build on their work, and not seeing that they were our pitons as some climb higher up the mountain to the summit.
I confess....... that should I accept, as I have up until now [and as it would seem all theology has taught] that, "man/adam, was made(make) created, in the image and likeness of "us and God" [male and female He created them]" Gen.1:26,27.... Is that....
"dust formed and the nostrils that received the breath of life, is the adam/man that received the charge of not to eat of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil(Bad) to die you shall be dying, developed into who the Lord God asked, "Where out thou?"
Should that be true, then I contend that God can die, that God is vulnerable to the wiles of the flesh and that He is just as weak as the man/adam He made/created.
I am foolish should I even consider the above rubbish. That is why I now reason, to wed Gen.1:26-27 to Gen. 2:7 is not a sound teaching. I contend that Gen.1:26-27 is a yet to be completed, that it is an awaited event.
Rom 8:19 for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
Rom 8:22 for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now.
Okay, Im ready. :HeartThrob: :icon_flower: :cloud9: :bigGrin:
QuoteGen.1:26-27 is a yet to be completed, that it is an awaited event.
Rom 8:19 for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God;
Rom 8:22 for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now.
Hi Micah~it was Finished in the Invisible before itcame to be, walked out in the Visible~~For mine~ The Promise has always Been Christ Long before Abraham, ~Christ is the Hope hidden within all Hence why ""ALL"creation Groan , - we are SAVED by THE Hope HE is~
Rom19 For
all creation is waiting eagerly for that
future day when God
will reveal who his children really are. Rom 8:20 Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse.
But with eager hope,
Rom 8:21
the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay
Another thought~The DAY of the LORD has always BEEN~ THE ETERNAL DAY HE IS~ we enter it In SPIRIT the very same ABRAHAM DID~ seeing HIS "DAY",
to REturn has to be a Place where we once would have Been~Created In Him Male and Female~
We humans have tendancy to see things Laterally , a Point from A to B~I see a Circle, Returning to the One we were always In from the Beginning as alll was Completed in the Unseen prior to the visible~
Shalom
"Hi Micah~it was Finished in the Invisible before itcame to be, walked out in the Visible~~For mine~ The Promise has always Been Christ Long before Abraham, ~Christ is the Hope hidden within all Hence why ""ALL"creation Grown , - we are SAVED by THE Hope HE is~" Taffy
I will claim right here that i really know nothing at all, yet in Him there is no beginning or ending, so for us to use the words finished or completed may be incorrect.
I contend that the first chapter of Genesis is the Word Spoken. I know that in HIM, all that we are given, is to piece together all that He Knows, and it is all part of the process to be worked out...ALL is in Him..... is, has, and will be complete and finished for in Him "always" is,was, and will be. HE is One, He Is Peace, IN HIM is Always.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith that it may accord with grace, for the promise to be confirmed to the entire seed, not to those of the law only, but to those also of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all,
Rom 4:17 according as it is written that, A father of many nations have I appointed you - facing which, he believes it of the God Who is vivifying the dead and calling what is not as if it were -"
God spoke to Abraham that he would be a father of many nations, it did not happen then, but in the future. "and calling what is not as if it were -"
I also have stated at other times and am still adamant, we are NOT SAVED, we are in the process of being saved.
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 08, 2011, 01:38:38 AM
"Hi Micah~it was Finished in the Invisible before itcame to be, walked out in the Visible~~For mine~ The Promise has always Been Christ Long before Abraham, ~Christ is the Hope hidden within all Hence why ""ALL"creation Grown , - we are SAVED by THE Hope HE is~" Taffy
I will claim right here that i really know nothing at all, yet in Him there is no beginning or ending, so for us to use the words finished or completed may be incorrect.
I contend that the first chapter of Genesis is the Word Spoken. I know that in HIM, all that we are given, is to piece together all that He Knows, and it is all part of the process to be worked out...ALL is in Him..... is, has, and will be complete and finished for in Him "always" is,was, and will be. HE is One, He Is Peace, IN HIM is Always.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith that it may accord with grace, for the promise to be confirmed to the entire seed, not to those of the law only, but to those also of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all,
Rom 4:17 according as it is written that, A father of many nations have I appointed you - facing which, he believes it of the God Who is vivifying the dead and calling what is not as if it were -"
God spoke to Abraham that he would be a father of many nations, it did not happen then, but in the future. "and calling what is not as if it were -"
I also have stated at other times and am still adamant, we are NOT SAVED, we are in the process of being saved.
Walked Out Yes~ Finished before it began Yes also~
For all what came OUT OF HIM Must have been in HIM to Begin~ABraham Defines The promise as He a A Father TYPE figure~
Shalom
"Walked Out Yes~ Finished before it began Yes also~" Taffy
Then this life is a waste.
"For all what came OUT OF HIM Must have been in HIM to Begin." Taffy
I thought I attempted to say that, but I guess I didn't do well.
"ALL is in Him..... is, has, and will be complete and finished for in Him "always" is,was, and will be. HE is One, He Is Peace, IN HIM is Always. " Me
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 08, 2011, 02:10:31 AM
"Walked Out Yes~ Finished before it began Yes also~" Taffy
Then this life is a waste.
"For all what came OUT OF HIM Must have been in HIM to Begin." Taffy
I thought I attempted to say that, but I guess I didn't do well.
"ALL is in Him..... is, has, and will be complete and finished for in Him "always" is,was, and will be. HE is One, He Is Peace, IN HIM is Always. " Me
To Learn By experience is a Not a waste~ :icon_flower:
"What we have is a failure to communicate." Strother Martin from "Cool Hand Luke."
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 07, 2011, 06:32:19 AM
Quote from: jabcat on November 07, 2011, 05:24:41 AM
micah, no problem disagreeing in a respectful manner. It's when we might "beat each other about the ears", tongue lashing, insulting, name-calling, embarrassing the other person, etc. that there's a problem. I don't think this thread is exclusively for any one of us.
Blessings, James.
I would like to agree with you James, but it seems that when ever I rebel these things surface. I do not mind and if it bothers no one else, ok. I do not feel guilty at all in my speak. But I do get a little upset when some things that are said "seem" to be set in stone and to go against that word provokes remarks from me that may be considered what you mentioned above.
I really try to be diplomatic, hate that word.
No problem Eaglesway, I can see and understand what you say. For me, being so long in the reading of the early rain, Hawtin, Warnock, Britton, Eby, and many others who brought us to where we are but knowing that they knew they were pioneers to a greater understanding, to see that some continue to build on their work, and not seeing that they were our pitons as some climb higher up the mountain to the summit.
Not familiar with Hawtin, maybe you could send me a link. Warnock is such a jewel in the kingdom. Read a little bit of Brittons stuff and met him once, he ministered in a fellowship I was a part of in Denver Co. in '79. All of us have climbed upon pitons set in the face of the rock, as did all of them- the foundation stones being the twelve apostles, and the chief cornerstone being Jesus. Peace.
Quote from: eaglesway on November 08, 2011, 08:12:49 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on November 07, 2011, 06:32:19 AM
Quote from: jabcat on November 07, 2011, 05:24:41 AM
micah, no problem disagreeing in a respectful manner. It's when we might "beat each other about the ears", tongue lashing, insulting, name-calling, embarrassing the other person, etc. that there's a problem. I don't think this thread is exclusively for any one of us.
Blessings, James.
I would like to agree with you James, but it seems that when ever I rebel these things surface. I do not mind and if it bothers no one else, ok. I do not feel guilty at all in my speak. But I do get a little upset when some things that are said "seem" to be set in stone and to go against that word provokes remarks from me that may be considered what you mentioned above.
I really try to be diplomatic, hate that word.
No problem Eaglesway, I can see and understand what you say. For me, being so long in the reading of the early rain, Hawtin, Warnock, Britton, Eby, and many others who brought us to where we are but knowing that they knew they were pioneers to a greater understanding, to see that some continue to build on their work, and not seeing that they were our pitons as some climb higher up the mountain to the summit.
Not familiar with Hawtin, maybe you could send me a link. Warnock is such a jewel in the kingdom. Read a little bit of Brittons stuff and met him once, he ministered in a fellowship I was a part of in Denver Co. in '79. All of us have climbed upon pitons set in the face of the rock, as did all of them- the foundation stones being the twelve apostles, and the chief cornerstone being Jesus. Peace.
Peace :icon_king:
Quote from: eaglesway on November 04, 2011, 06:59:27 AM
I do not believe taking offense and getting hurt are the same thing. I think taking offense is one way to respond to getting hurt. Taking offense means what it reads. TAKING OFFENSE, in other words- we hold onto an offense in one or more of several ways, such as unforgiveness/bitterness, responding agressively and judgmentally to those who "offend" us, "making an issue" of something we should let go by with forbearance and understanding. Ouur point of view is not so important as we think it is. When our ego is mixed up in what we believe, our self esteem intertwined with what we think we kno, offenses abound because they are unavoidable- we are holding our revelation in the flesh.
If I am getting hurt I can go to God and/or my trusted counselors/friends and wrestle with it until wisdom comes. If I "take offense" I have already given the highest counsel to my flesh. One of the things that keeps us apart as believers is that we are so easily offended. It is the surest evidence of immaturity.
2Ti 2:24-26 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
Jas 3:13-18 Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. (14) But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. (15) This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. (16) For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. (17) But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. (18) And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
Taking offense leads to fighting evil with evil, flesh with flesh. We are to overcome evil with good, so certainly, within the house of faith, where the issue is not so much evil vs evil, but rather differing points of view- we ought to be able to carry on a discourse without judgmental invectives and condescending attitudes towards those who disagree with us. The anger of man does not accomplish the righteousness of God.
I am not saying we are to be Mr. Spock either :o). We get hurt, we bleed, we cry, we get angry- but let that anger be without sin and let me not become the center of my pain. If our will is "centered in our spirit" then the water of life will come out when we get "squeezed". If our will is centered in our mind, there will be a conduit to the flesh and when we get squeezed the flesh will come out. When Jesus was crucified all that came out of him was blood, water and spirit.
Our goal(high and seemingly impossible as it might seem) is to emulate him, being partakers of the divine nature, born from above by an incorruptible seed unto a sincere love of the brethren.
Terrific post. I see what you are saying by seperating hurt and offense, and I would agree. Now, if I could only consistantly apply it. :)
:thumbsup: yea me too ;o)
Rom 7:22-8:2 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
Wretched man that I am!
Who will set me free from the body of this death?
Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.