Can a believer go to the Lake of Fire?

[rosered]

imo there are many things for which darkness is a metaphor.

One is wickedness.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Another is mystery.

6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

He gives wisdom to wise men
And knowledge to men of understanding.
"It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things;
He knows what is in the darkness,
And the light dwells with Him.


Another is chaos/judgment

Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Another is death.

To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

"Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death"

Another is stubborn ignorance.

Then I saw that wisdom excells folly, as far as light excells darkness.

"If you were blind you would have no sin. Because you say you see, your sin remains."

Another is hatred

The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.  But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.


When John says "God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all", he is speaking of love and righteousness(light) versus hate and wickedness(darkness).

  Good   stuff   John    :2thumbs:
   
The True  God creates the darkness , but  is NOT the darkness   , but can be   obscure  in the sense of  being difficult to understand.

God the Father , creator of all things   IS IN  COMPLETE  CONTROL

  darkness, obscurity

darkness

secret place                               

[Seth]

 :iagree:

Identifying differentiations in the text is very helpful for understanding  :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

...the more I think about the LOF judgement sounds more like a failed/corrupt priesthood judgemnt.

   your'e righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisee's sadducee's....the molten sea

  for the priests to wash in..symbolizing not doing your'e willwith the giftsof the ministry..but

  God's......

   the angels[messengers of the covenant/gospel] not keeping thier positions of authority......

   surely a corrupt priesthood is an abomination? for I was hungry and you gave me nothing

  to eat,naked and you did not clothe me,sick and in prison and you did not visit me.

     .............

[micah7:9]

How about if I say it this way, the lake of fire is judgment and the overcomer who has already been judged by fire, those saints who will judge [1Cor.6:2]  the world are in the lake of fire, for they will be like Him-Jesus- who is the JUDGE.
I believe Jesus is The Lake of Fire and the saints/overcomer/believer/elect will not be hurt by the second death.

At least that is how I understand.

[sheila]

 I can agree with that,Micah.   the many strpes and few..saved but lose your position[hurt/suffer

  loss]  heavier judgement on those who teach. change of a garments for the Priesthood....

    etc..it just all seems to click..........

 



 

[gregoryfl]

Psa 18:11  He maketh darkness His secret place, Round about Him His tabernacle, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.

Psa 91:1  He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:2  I will say of Jehovah, He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust.
Psa 91:3  For he will deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence.

Just a thought :Peace2:

Darkness as compared to light of man. But when Apostle John says that "he is the light, and no darkness is in him" I think he is talking about a different kind of darkness.

Col 1:16  because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Col 1:17  and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.[/b]

Yes, and these powers of darkness only receive their power and authority of darkness in the shut and blinded eyes of their subjects. This is, as I stated in an earlier post, why Yeshua sent Paul to open the eyes of these blind ones, turning them from darkness, and....thus also from the authority of the adversary. His authority is darkness, not a true darkness but one caused by one's closing their eyes and not seeing the reality. Everything being exposed and seen by the Creator, including these authorities of darkness, and knowing what this darkness truly is, dovetails perfectly with John witness of there being no darkness in him at all.

It is to me as simple as this. I have done this illustration many times with others. If I, a child of God, one who is hidden in God in Messiah, walk with my spiritual eyes open, I will be said to be walking in the light, aware of the truth, of spiritual reality. But the moment I close my eyes and walk I am still in the light, still in God, but am walking in darkness, blinded to those realities, walking in falsehood. The darkness is not in God but in my perception, caused by my closed eyes. This is what makes the most sense to me.

Ronen

[gregoryfl]

How about if I say it this way, the lake of fire is judgment and the overcomer who has already been judged by fire, those saints who will judge [1Cor.6:2]  the world are in the lake of fire, for they will be like Him-Jesus- who is the JUDGE.
I believe Jesus is The Lake of Fire and the saints/overcomer/believer/elect will not be hurt by the second death.

At least that is how I understand.

And one of things I think we need to keep in mind is this: Although someone may not be hurt or overcome by something because they do not experience it at all, not going through it, I would ask this:

If I lived in California, and a hurricane occurred in Florida, it would be true that I was not hurt by or overcome by that hurricane, but, would it make sense for someone to say it, or write it down in a newspaper, for instance? I think anyone looking at it would think...duh, of course he was not hurt or overcome, he was nowhere near it, didn't go through it. The statement is not necessary.

To me it makes perfect sense though, if I lived in Florida, went through a hurricane and came out ok, for it to be written or said that I was not hurt or overcome by it. Such a statement being made makes the mose sense in the context of someone having experienced it differently than others, those who got hurt and overcome by it.

This to me, and the witness of the three Hebrews who were not hurt by, or overcome by, the fiery furnace heated seven times, demonstrate to me that the Father wants us to connect this together to see that our experience of Yeshua and his messengers, being in their presense, will either be one of being where you have always longed to be, in utter contentment and shalom, or, in the case of those who, at that time, want nothing to do with God, one of being where they do not want to be (having to be thrown in), in utter shame and mental anguish, such as Revelation 14 bears out.

Although I am not totally certain of this, but I have a suspicion that the saints corporately, will make up the lake of fire, along with Yeshua, as his body, judging the world. I am not sure how that all works out, but I see glimpses of it in the Prophets, along with Paul's writings.

[micah7:9]

How about if I say it this way, the lake of fire is judgment and the overcomer who has already been judged by fire, those saints who will judge [1Cor.6:2]  the world are in the lake of fire, for they will be like Him-Jesus- who is the JUDGE.
I believe Jesus is The Lake of Fire and the saints/overcomer/believer/elect will not be hurt by the second death.

At least that is how I understand.

And one of things I think we need to keep in mind is this: Although someone may not be hurt or overcome by something because they do not experience it at all, not going through it, I would ask this:

If I lived in California, and a hurricane occurred in Florida, it would be true that I was not hurt by or overcome by that hurricane, but, would it make sense for someone to say it, or write it down in a newspaper, for instance? I think anyone looking at it would think...duh, of course he was not hurt or overcome, he was nowhere near it, didn't go through it. The statement is not necessary.

To me it makes perfect sense though, if I lived in Florida, went through a hurricane and came out ok, for it to be written or said that I was not hurt or overcome by it. Such a statement being made makes the mose sense in the context of someone having experienced it differently than others, those who got hurt and overcome by it.

This to me, and the witness of the three Hebrews who were not hurt by, or overcome by, the fiery furnace heated seven times, demonstrate to me that the Father wants us to connect this together to see that our experience of Yeshua and his messengers, being in their presense, will either be one of being where you have always longed to be, in utter contentment and shalom, or, in the case of those who, at that time, want nothing to do with God, one of being where they do not want to be (having to be thrown in), in utter shame and mental anguish, such as Revelation 14 bears out.

Although I am not totally certain of this, but I have a suspicion that the saints corporately, will make up the lake of fire, along with Yeshua, as his body, judging the world. I am not sure how that all works out, but I see glimpses of it in the Prophets, along with Paul's writings.

"Although I am not totally certain of this, but I have a suspicion that the saints corporately, will make up the lake of fire, along with Yeshua, as his body, judging the world. I am not sure how that all works out, but I see glimpses of it in the Prophets, along with Paul's writings."

Ain't that just about what I posted?

[gregoryfl]

That is why I quoted you brother :). You mentioned them being in the lake of fire, and Jesus being the lake of fire. So do you also see them being the lake of fire along with Jesus; not just in it, but both being in it and being it, distinct and yet of the same substance, such as when little flames are added to a a fire?

[Seth]

Here is how I see the judgment of the world demonstrated among those who are in the lake of fire and are therefore experiencing wine of God's wrath, torment, darkness, death, being bound hand and foot etc.

The Spirit and the BRIDE (New Jerusalem) say "COME, all ye who are athirst drink the water of life freely." Where are they telling them to come from? From out of the lake of fire, into the lake of fire? They are telling them to come INTO THE GATES of JERUSALEM. That is a judgment because through God's judgment, sin is exposed that it may be repented of.

That is why I quoted you brother :). You mentioned them being in the lake of fire, and Jesus being the lake of fire. So do you also see them being the lake of fire along with Jesus; not just in it, but both being in it and being it, distinct and yet of the same substance, such as when little flames are added to a a fire?

If I said, that those who don't fly to Florida will not be hurt of the hurricane, would that make sense?

[micah7:9]

That is why I quoted you brother :). You mentioned them being in the lake of fire, and Jesus being the lake of fire. So do you also see them being the lake of fire along with Jesus; not just in it, but both being in it and being it, distinct and yet of the same substance, such as when little flames are added to a a fire?

Yes.

[micah7:9]

Here is how I see the judgment of the world demonstrated among those who are in the lake of fire and are therefore experiencing wine of God's wrath, torment, darkness, death, being bound hand and foot etc.

The Spirit and the BRIDE (New Jerusalem) say "COME, all ye who are athirst drink the water of life freely." Where are they telling them to come from? From out of the lake of fire, into the lake of fire? They are telling them to come INTO THE GATES of JERUSALEM. That is a judgment because through God's judgment, sin is exposed that it may be repented of.

That is why I quoted you brother :). You mentioned them being in the lake of fire, and Jesus being the lake of fire. So do you also see them being the lake of fire along with Jesus; not just in it, but both being in it and being it, distinct and yet of the same substance, such as when little flames are added to a a fire?

If I said, that those who don't fly to Florida will not be hurt of the hurricane, would that make sense?

"Here is how I see the judgment of the world demonstrated among those who are in the lake of fire and are therefore experiencing wine of God's wrath, torment, darkness, death, being bound hand and foot etc."

So this how you accept and see the lake of fire? "bound hand and foot"?

[Seth]

Yes I do

Matthew 22
11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 13
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

Revelation 22
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

[micah7:9]

Psa 18:11  He maketh darkness His secret place, Round about Him His tabernacle, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.

Psa 91:1  He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:2  I will say of Jehovah, He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust.
Psa 91:3  For he will deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence.

Just a thought :Peace2:

Darkness as compared to light of man. But when Apostle John says that "he is the light, and no darkness is in him" I think he is talking about a different kind of darkness.

Col 1:16  because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Col 1:17  and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.[/b]

Yes, and these powers of darkness only receive their power and authority of darkness in the shut and blinded eyes of their subjects. This is, as I stated in an earlier post, why Yeshua sent Paul to open the eyes of these blind ones, turning them from darkness, and....thus also from the authority of the adversary. His authority is darkness, not a true darkness but one caused by one's closing their eyes and not seeing the reality. Everything being exposed and seen by the Creator, including these authorities of darkness, and knowing what this darkness truly is, dovetails perfectly with John witness of there being no darkness in him at all.

It is to me as simple as this. I have done this illustration many times with others. If I, a child of God, one who is hidden in God in Messiah, walk with my spiritual eyes open, I will be said to be walking in the light, aware of the truth, of spiritual reality. But the moment I close my eyes and walk I am still in the light, still in God, but am walking in darkness, blinded to those realities, walking in falsehood. The darkness is not in God but in my perception, caused by my closed eyes. This is what makes the most sense to me.

Ronen

I am not attempting to justify darkness that the Lord has purposed for evil and wickedness. Eph 6:12  because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;

But I do believe the Lord Got works with darkness. Gen. 1:2 ...... the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep,....from that darkness, which is His secret place Psa 18:11  He maketh darkness His secret place, Round about Him His tabernacle, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.

From darkness He spoke light, I heard or read somewhere that darkness was light turned down to absolute minimum, if that is true then light IS darkness. He calls darkness His secret place, and from there He creates(imo) . From that darkness in Gen.1 He ends by saying Gen 1:31  And God seeth all that He hath done, and lo, very good;

Psa 139:11  And I say, `Surely darkness bruiseth me, Then night is light to me.
Psa 139:12  Also darkness hideth not from Thee, And night as day shineth, as is darkness so is light.

I suppose my belief is that Christians teach only the negative of darkness and in doing so overlook the positive. His creation came out of darkness so it must be good. (imo)

[gregoryfl]

If I said, that those who don't fly to Florida will not be hurt of the hurricane, would that make sense?

To me, yes.

[eaglesway]

...the more I think about the LOF judgement sounds more like a failed/corrupt priesthood judgemnt.

   your'e righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisee's sadducee's....the molten sea

  for the priests to wash in..symbolizing not doing your'e willwith the giftsof the ministry..but

  God's......

   the angels[messengers of the covenant/gospel] not keeping thier positions of authority......

   surely a corrupt priesthood is an abomination? for I was hungry and you gave me nothing

  to eat,naked and you did not clothe me,sick and in prison and you did not visit me.

     .............

I very much agree with this. Even in Matthew 25:46 those who are cast into the fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels are those who said, "Lord, Lord....

Also, Jesus says that those who overcome will not be touched by the second death, and again He says those who overcome wil not be "blotted out" of the Lamb's book of life".

But also, we see the anti-christ and the false prophet cast into the LOF. Aslo in James we read

"Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. 2 Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!

I think perhaps those who are predators of any type will see the LOF and the meek will "inherit the earth".

[Seth]

But I do believe the Lord Got works with darkness. Gen. 1:2 ...... the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep,....from that darkness, which is His secret place Psa 18:11  He maketh darkness His secret place, Round about Him His tabernacle, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.

I agree with this. That is why I believe God uses sin to judge the sinner by turning man over to a carnal nature. That is why I believe he turned Jersualem over to Babylon. That is what I see as the significance of God saying "Babylon is a gold cup in the Lord's hand. And the nations have been made to drink."

I suppose my belief is that Christians teach only the negative of darkness and in doing so overlook the positive. His creation came out of darkness so it must be good. (imo)

Evil is bad, but can be used for good. Though there is no darkness in God, he can still USE it for good. That is what I see the LOF being.

[micah7:9]

"Here is how I see the judgment of the world demonstrated among those who are in the lake of fire and are therefore experiencing wine of God's wrath, torment, darkness, death, being bound hand and foot etc." (Seth)

Rev. 20:10 Tormented  G928  basanizōFrom G931; to torture: - pain, toil, torment, toss, vex.
G931 basanos Perhaps remotely from the same as G939 (through the notion of going to the bottom); a touch stone, that is, (by analogy) torture: - torment.  G939  basis (to walk); a pace ("base"), that is, (by implication) the foot: - foot.

This same word tormented is the same word tossed.
Mat 14:24  But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.(KJV)
Mat 14:24  and the boat was now in the midst of the sea, distressed by the waves, for the wind was contrary. (YLT)
CLV(i) 24 Now the ship was already many stadia away from the land, in the midst of the sea, being tormented by the billows, for the wind was contrary."
Rotherham(i) 24 Now, the boat, still many furlongs from the land, was holding off, being distressed by the waves,—for, the wind, was, contrary.

This is all I could find about the lake of fire in my search.
Rev_19:20  and the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who did the signs before him, in which he led astray those who did receive the mark of the beast, and those who did bow before his image; living they were cast--the two--to the lake of the fire, that is burning with brimstone;
Rev_20:10  and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night--to the ages of the ages.

Rev_20:14  and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;
Rev_20:15  and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

Now I am by no means saying that the lake of fire is not going to be terrible. It will be.
But I see no evidence of what you spoke about the lake of fire.
A P.S. It just seems to me (imo) that your understanding has a touch of what is called here ET's, a vendetta of hate with joy with the outcome of the sinner. ET's desire a continuous burning fire of total horror and they are happy or it seems happy about it.. It is my understanding that God is Love (1 Jo. 4:16) and should that be true even though there will be judgment in the lake of fire it will be coming from a God who is love.
Heb 10:30  for we have known Him who is saying, `Vengeance is Mine, I will recompense, saith the Lord;' and again, `The Lord shall judge His people;' --
Heb 10:31  fearful is the falling into the hands of a living God.
That alone is the message to the sinner.

[Seth]

"Distressed" is exactly the natural consequence of sin and darkness. That's the reason it will be terrible.

It is the wine of God's fury.

A P.S. It just seems to me (imo) that your understanding has a touch of what is called here ET's, a vendetta of hate with joy with the outcome of the sinner. ET's desire a continuous burning fire of total horror and they are happy or it seems happy about it.

I've never said or believed any such thing. I have always been saying that the Spirit and the Bride preach healing to the nations outside the spiritual City by way of entering into New Jerusalem (through an open gate) and to leave aside the spiritual death which has destroyed their houses.

[eaglesway]

"Although I am not totally certain of this, but I have a suspicion that the saints corporately, will make up the lake of fire, along with Yeshua, as his body, judging the world. I am not sure how that all works out, but I see glimpses of it in the Prophets, along with Paul's writings."

That's what I think it is.

1 Corinthians 4:5 (NASB)

5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.

http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/can-a-believer-go-to-the-lake-of-fire/msg176400/#msg176400

[rosered]

 

That is why I quoted you brother :). You mentioned them being in the lake of fire, and Jesus being the lake of fire. So do you also see them being the lake of fire along with Jesus; not just in it, but both being in it and being it, distinct and yet of the same substance, such as when little flames are added to a a fire?

Yes.

seeing the prophecy   of John the baptist and   the Lord of hosts saying     it is HE  , 

Mal 3 1"Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple;
and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts.

2"But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3"He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness
Paul the Priesthood  son of Benjamin    a Levi     , the change from Levi Priesthood to the   King of Melchizedek, who appears briefly in Abraham's life      I AM,THAT  I AM  was King of Salem and priest of the Most High God.   royal priesthood  Jesus, in response to the Pharisees' question "Who do you think you are?" said, "'Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.' 'You are not yet fifty years old,' the Jews said to him, 'and you have seen Abraham!' 'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'



The Mission of John the Baptist


  the great separation           
...16John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water

but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 17"His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." 18So with many other exhortations he preached the gospel to the people
 

    clear , clean purge the  threshing floor      I have considered      this  is  separating     within us ,  Only Because Jesus says the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU     not here nor there   not after anyone or anything   ,   so the cleansing   fire  is  within each and everyone of us    , God is just   and fair and  PERFECT

the HOLY SPIRIT  is the   LORD OF HOSTS &GOD the Father  and all those with Him   

  when the Lord told   his disciples they would judge the 12 tribes of Israel Jesus said to them,


"Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

   the big question is this    to me right now  is the SON OF MAN sitting on   His glorious throne ? yes 
  in Rev 3  we see HE IS !!    but are we in the  7th   and last      church running the race ?  yes
     Message to Laodicea
14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the [k]Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

15 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will [l]spit you out of My mouth.

17 Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, 18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

21 He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame   and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"
 

for me I thought this is exactly where the Lord of hosts  went  after  being taken up in the clouds in Acts

Does He return   when we  least expect it ?  , I would have to say yes    to those still   not having HIM  seated in their hearts ruling   within us  yet

  each in their own order  , so no man can  know the time   

[Seth]

 

That is why I quoted you brother :). You mentioned them being in the lake of fire, and Jesus being the lake of fire. So do you also see them being the lake of fire along with Jesus; not just in it, but both being in it and being it, distinct and yet of the same substance, such as when little flames are added to a a fire?

Yes.

seeing the prophecy   of John the baptist and   the Lord of hosts saying     it is HE  , 

Mal 3 1"Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple;
and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts.

2"But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3"He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness
Paul the Priesthood  son of Benjamin    a Levi     , the change from Levi Priesthood to the   King of Melchizedek, who appears briefly in Abraham's life      I AM,THAT  I AM  was King of Salem and priest of the Most High God.   royal priesthood  Jesus, in response to the Pharisees' question "Who do you think you are?" said, "'Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.' 'You are not yet fifty years old,' the Jews said to him, 'and you have seen Abraham!' 'I tell you the truth,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'



The Mission of John the Baptist


  the great separation           
...16John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water

but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 17"His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." 18So with many other exhortations he preached the gospel to the people
 

    clear , clean purge the  threshing floor      I have considered      this  is  separating     within us ,  Only Because Jesus says the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU     not here nor there   not after anyone or anything   ,   so the cleansing   fire  is  within each and everyone of us    , God is just   and fair and  PERFECT

I think there is a strong difference between the house of God receiving the fiery trials of faith and those who are cast into darkness. One occurs from within. The other occurs from without.

[Seth]

Revelation 18
1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues (these will be made known later in the passage). 5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6Reward her even as (hos - in like manner, such as) she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled, fill to her double. 7How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong  the Lord God who judgeth her.

Her sins have reached heaven. Kinda reminds me how "wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke." The SAME CUP she gave others, SHE drinks DOUBLE. Her plagues come in one day:

DEATH

MOURNING

FAMINE

Those who remain in Babylon receive these three plagues, which is why they are told to COME OUT so that you do not receive of her plagues. This is why the wine and the fire are combined in Revelation 14. Wine in moderation doses is pleasure. But if you DOUBLE it, not so much. You end up stumbling and exposing nakedness. These are the natural results of sin and darkness. This is why for those in the LOF, the Spirit and the Bride say COME, drink the water of life freely.

What she did to others God will do to her, except he will make sure it is DOUBLED, and he will reward her the same way she rewarded you. Here is a really good example of that kind of judging:

1 Thess 2
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The reason that the brightness of his coming will destroy them is clear to me.  Even if you say that the Lake of Fire is the saints, look what it does, look how it is used: And for those who practiced DECEPTION, they shall receive what? A STRONG DELUSION...and be judged who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. The fire they are judged by is  going to shut them out for a time:

1 Thess
6For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9These will pay the penalty of aionios destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

The judgment of flaming fire from God is explained in the same passage: "These will pay the penalty of an aionios destruction, away from the presence of the Lord." DARKNESS is the judgment. What happens when you are in darkness? What are your actions?

The LOF is about exposure, and humbling. For that, DRINK DOUBLE the same you have meted out. But the reason God metes out strong delusion for exposing the deceivers is explained by him already:

Habbukkuk 2
15"Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbors, pouring it from the wineskin till they are drunk, so that he can gaze on their naked bodies 16 You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and let your nakedness be exposed The cup from the Lord's right hand is coming around to you, and disgrace will cover your glory.

[rosered]

Seth

I think there is a strong difference between the house of God receiving the fiery trials of faith and those who are cast into darkness. One occurs from within. The other occurs from without.

I do to Seth , most definitely  a  big difference 
the fiery trials of faith   are done by those whom persecute , the same sufferings of Christ    and  for the  cause  of the  Cross the UPRIGHT  STAKE    /TRUTH

  those whom are cast into utter darkness   are "cut off '  [ they rejected  HIM    though disobedience]    for a time   from the Lord of Hosts   , like blessed is he who is in the first resurrection  [I am the resurrection and the Life ]   
  for me their   second chance  come when they shall say " Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord "   

37"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
 

  I never want to think  that   I have all this figured out , not at all   , we are just looking at the scriptures for answers   and considering them ALL  , not just a few    hopefully
  but I am learning Seth and   am thankful to God  for all  the HOLY SPIRIT help 

I feel that Jerusalem  , Jerusalem ,  the LORD called  twice in this verse   
  every time the Lord says  anything  twice      and   any name  twice   , to me its to   both  the natural and  the Spiritual  and twice told   as prophecy   , I feel every word said of the LORD means  something  very important      I have a strong reverence for His every word       and yes  a healthy fear and awe of Him    ,   


  Your house is  left to you desolate    is  within us     to me  , it could not be any more individual than this  to me   but I do do  also see the  bigger picture as    the scribes pharisees and hypocrites      as being Joined to Babylon      and that cry is to come out of her my people         those abusing the law   and  being in authority    especially the religious   leaders       whom abuse  it 

 
 

[Seth]

I agree with alot of what you are saying about the judgment. And I do believe "your house left desolate" is internal, but I see it also as a whole thing too. I can be destroyed internally as well as externally. I think as prodigals, if we become prodigals, the experience is to believe that we are clothed but to be exposed as naked. Believe that we are rich, but our house is desolate.  :thumbsup: