Both saints and sinners are left behind during the rapture...

[WhiteWings]

Many saw that the RCC persecution of dissidents (later called Protestants) throughout the Church Age was the persecution of the saints portrayed in the book of Revelation. It was commonly believed that the Papal system itself was "Antichrist," the "little horn" coming out of the great iron (Roman) beast in Daniel 7:20.

The Roman Church was, of course, stung by this criticism. They could not deny their policy of burning dissidents at the stake, for this was openly discussed even by Roman bishops, cardinals, and the popes themselves.

Neither could they deny the fact that the Roman Church was an extension of the Roman Empire, for the Church assumed power when the old Roman government fell in 476 A.D. The Protestant reformers were quick to point out the Papal boast of having the power to overrule the precepts of the apostles and of Jesus Christ Himself. These papal decrees were a perfect match with what Daniel wrote about the "little horn" in Dan. 7:20, " that horn [governmental power] which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts." But what about for example Tabernacles.....?

To deflect all that criticism a Spanish Jesuit wrote a book that places the rapture in the future. That way it's impossible that RCC is the beast system.
Regardless how good or bad  the RCC is it's not a church in the Biblical definition. congregation, not the organization or the building.

One of the main flaws of many "theory builders" is that they have little knowledge of the Jewish feasts. And if they do they dismiss them as "done away" laws.
But in reality the 3 harvest feasts are 3 prophesies of His coming. The first one Passover everybody knows about (under the pagan name Easter).
That was His first coming.


^YLT1 Thessalonians 4
15 for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living--who do remain over to the presence of the Lord--may not precede those asleep,
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;

The verse shows an order. First the dead and then (next) those who are alive. The big question is when is "next"? 1 second later? A day? A month? A year?...
Many have a opinion on that. But based on what? Doctrine or a bunch of verses?

Meet (in Greek) means 'meet and return with an escort'.
^YLTMatthew 25
1 `Then shall the reign of the heavens be likened to ten virgins, who, having taken their lamps, went forth to meet the bridegroom;
2 and five of them were prudent, and five foolish;
3 they who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil;
4 and the prudent took oil in their vessels, with their lamps.
5 `And the bridegroom tarrying, they all nodded and were sleeping,
6 and in the middle of the night a cry was made, Lo, the bridegroom doth come; go ye forth to meet him.
7 `Then rose all those virgins, and trimmed their lamps,
8 and the foolish said to the prudent, Give us of your oil, because our lamps are going out;
The virgins are talking with each other. They are in the same room.
9 and the prudent answered, saying--Lest there may not be sufficient for us and you, go ye rather unto those selling, and buy for yourselves.
10 `And while they are going away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those ready went in with him to the marriage-feasts, and the door was shut;
The 5 foolish virgins returned to the same room but the door was shut
11 and afterwards come also do the rest of the virgins, saying, Sir, sir, open to us;
The groom was INSIDE the room. Maybe the wise virgins walked a mile to the groom with their lamps but that's not the point. They are now back in exactly the same place they were before. It's the groom that's at another place.
So if that represents the rapture it isn't the wise going to Jesus but Jesus going to the wise....


A similar situation in this verse:
^YLTActs 28
15 and thence, the brethren having heard the things concerning us, came forth to meet us, unto Appii Forum, and Three Taverns--whom Paul having seen, having given thanks to God, took courage.

Paul (the groom) came from Jerusalem. The believers (the 5 virgins) came from Rome (=the room) and took Paul back to Rome.

The whole point of meeting Jesus in the air is that the believer go to Jesus to escort Him back to earth.

Another verse that is used to support the idea that saints are raptured away before the tribulation starts:
^YLTRevelation 7
14 and I have said to him, `Sir, thou hast known;' and he said to me, `These are those who are coming out of the great tribulation, and they did wash their robes, and they made their robes white in the blood of the Lamb;
==>The verse simply states they come out of it. Not that they escape it. In fact to come out of something you have to be in it.

Just read the blue parts of the verses below.
^YLTMatthew 24
29 `And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;
31 and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

Below another set of verse that is used to prove saints are raptured away. But proves the opposite...
It are the ones that were eating, drinking and marrying that were took away by the flood. Not believer Noach.
^YLTMatthew 24
37 and as the days of Noah--so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man;
38 for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark,
39 and they did not know till the flood came and took all away; so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man.
40 Then two men shall be in the field, the one is received, and the one is left;

^YLTGenesis 2
24 therefore doth a man leave his father and his mother, and hath cleaved unto his wife, and they have become one flesh.
==> The groom leaves his parents not the bride...



The whole point of the so called rapture is that Jesus returns to earth to establish His kingdom. The overcomers see Him approaching and run to Him to walk Him to earth. Those who have a dog and where away a few days will understand that principle. The dog will celebrate the feast of barking Trumpets.  :winkgrin:


^YLTNumbers 10
2 `Make to thee two trumpets of silver; beaten work thou dost make them, and they have been to thee for the convocation of the company, and for the journeying of the camps;
3 and they have blown with them, and all the company have met together unto thee, unto the opening of the tent of meeting.
4 And if with one they blow, then have the princes, heads of the thousands of Israel, met together unto thee;
==> If 2 trumpets are blown all people should gather. If 1 trumpet is blown only the leaders.

^YLT1 Thessalonians 4
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
==> 1 trump is blown. The sign for leaders... Not for the masses. Not even for the whole "church".


^YLTJohn 5
28 `Wonder not at this, because there doth come an hour in which all those in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.
==> This verse can't be about the first resurrection because it was limited "the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years
were finished."

So the saints are raised in (at least) 2 stages.

^YLTIsaiah 65
20 There is not thence any more a suckling of days, And an aged man who doth not complete his days, For the youth a hundred years old dieth, And the sinner, a hundred years old, is lightly esteemed.
==> There will be immortality for some but the sinner will die at a minimum age of 100 years.
==>  Some will receive the better resurrection of Hebrews 11:35. Many will not.

The feasts:
Passover: The Exodus from Egypt (Ex. 12, 13)
Wave Sheaf Offering: Crossing the Red Sea (Ex. 14)
Pentecost: Giving the Law at Sinai (Ex. 20)
Trumpets: Building the Silver Trumpets (Num. 10)
Atonement: The Twelve Spies give an Evil Report (Num. 13)
Tabernacles: The Day Israel was Supposed to Enter Canaan, but did not (Num. 14).

Trumpets
Jacob's family was divided into two companies, or camps. This
speaks of the Feast of Trumpets, where the believers will be divided into two companies: the congregation
(church) and the rulers (overcomers). They are also represented by Leah and Rachel, the two wives of Jacob,
for Leah had weak eyes, while Rachel was beautiful (Gen. 29:17).
Leah produced the most children, even as the Church is in the majority. Though she was a lawful wife, she did
not have a love relationship with Jacob. This foreshadows those believers who are Christians only because they
are afraid of burning in hell forever. Their love is not yet perfected, for they are still afraid of God. "Perfect love
casts out fear" (1 John 4:18).
Rachel, the beloved wife, produced the fewest children, but her son, Joseph, was the inheritor of the birthright.
Joseph represents the overcomers.
And so, the two companies at Mahanaim show us the type and shadow of the Feast of Trumpets and the fact
that on this day the overcomers will be raised out from among the dead. The first resurrection will divide
people into two camps. For this reason, the apostle Paul said in Phil. 3:11, " in order that I may attain to the
out-resurrection from among the dead" [ek-anastasis ek nekron].
The usual word for resurrection is anastasis, as used in the previous verse. But verse 11 uses the Greek word,
ek-anastasis, which literally means the "out-from-resurrection." In The Companion Bible, Bullinger comments
on this, saying,
"Resurrection from the dead (ek nekron) implies the resurrection of some, the former of these two
classes, the others being left behind."


End of part 1

[thinktank]

The gospels talk about the kingdom of heaven coming to Earth. There is a possibility that before the end all the tribes of Isreale will gather to the holy land and God will defend it from all enemies REvelation talks about a dragon chasing Israel into the wilderness, but the earth swallows up the flood. Those who are unworthy will be shut out, they will see Abraham and the prophets inside but they themselves will be shut out in outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I personally though believe there will be  both a kingdom of safety upon in the ark earth as well as a ladder to  heaven.

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

John Preston Eby's story  end times revelations , Looking For His Appearing. part 47

THE ORIGIN OF THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE

That's the way the "rapture" is usually presented. But is that how Jesus announced He would return? Will He come back physically in two phases - one, secret and unexpected, "for" His saints, to rapture them away; and a second, publicly "with" His saints? Is this "rapture" really the "hope" of the Church as the preachers are wont to proclaim? Let me give you the history of how this theory got started.

It wasn't until the early or mid 1800's that there was any significant group of believers around the world that looked for a "rapture" of the Church prior to a seven-year tribulation period. It may come as a shock to some who read these lines, but it is a fact nonetheless, that the "rapture" teaching was NOT taught by the early Church, it was NOT taught by the Church of the first centuries, it was NOT taught by the Reformers, IT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY ANYONE (except a couple Roman Catholic theologians) UNTIL ABOUT THE YEAR 1830! At the time of the Reformation the early Protestants widely held and Were convinced that the Pope was the supreme individual embodiment and personification of the spirit of antichrist, and the Roman Church the Harlot System of Rev. 17. This understanding was responsible for bringing millions of believers out of the Roman Catholic religious system. It therefore became expedient for certain Romish theologians to turn the attention of the people away from the Papacy, and this they endeavored to a counter-interpretation to that held by the Protestants. This new scheme of prophetic interpretation became known as FUTURISM. Rather than viewing the drama of the book of Revelation spiritually and historically, they would consign it all to a brief period of time at the end of the age. It was a Jesuit priest named Ribera who, in the days of the Reformation, first taught that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the Antichrist away down at the end of the age. Thus Ribera laid the foundation of a system of prophetic interpretation of which the Secret Rapture has now become an integral part.

Later, Emmanuel Lacunza, also a Jesuit priest, built on Ribera's teachings, and spent much of his life writing a book titled "The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty." Lacunza, however, wrote under the assumed name of "Rabbi Ben Ezra," supposedly a learned Jew who had accepted Christ as his Saviour. With Jesuit cunning he thus conspired to get his book a hearing in the Protestant world - they would not even permit it in their homes coming from a Jesuit pen - but as the earnest work of a "converted Jew" they would consume it with avid interest! Within the pages of this elaborate forgery Lacunza taught the novel notion that Jesus returns not once, but twice, and at the "first stage" of His return He "raptures" His Church so they can escape the reign of the "future Antichrist." His book was first published in Spanish in the year 1812 and soon found its way onto the shelves of the library of the Archbishop of Canterbury in London, England.

Now enter the name of Edward Irving. Born in Scotland in 1792, Irving became one of the most eloquent preachers of his time. In 1828 his open-air meetings in Scotland drew crowds of 10,000 people. His Church in London seated one thousand people and was packed week after week with a congregation drawn from the most brilliant and influencial circles of society. There were some among them who by prophetic declaration announced that the Lord was coming soon, and this idea became prominent in their prophetic utterances and teachings. Out of those prophetic declarations some began to study the scriptures in the light of a physical, literal coming of the Lord. Up until that time the coming of the Lord was understood as a coming of the Lord TO His people, and IN His saints, and there was no sense of His fleshly coming. Irving discovered Lacunza's book and was deeply shaken by it, in fact, fell in love with it, translated it into English, and it was published in London in 1827. And at this very time Irving heard what he believed to be a Voice from heaven commanding him to preach the Secret Rapture of the Saints. Then Irving began to hold Bible Conferences throughout Scotland, emphasizing the coming of Jesus to rapture His Church.

About this same time there began the emergence of a new movement which came to be known as the "Plymouth Brethren." The Brethren movement had its beginning in Dublin in 1825 when a small group of earnest men, dissatisfied with the spiritually lethargic condition that prevailed in the Protestant Church in Ireland, met for prayer and fellowship. Soon others joined the fellowship and associated groups sprang up in various places. Though the movement had its beginning at Dublin ' , it was Plymouth, England that became the center of their vast literature outreach, thus the name !'Plymouth Brethren" became attached. Although there was interest from the start in prophetic subjects, the center of interest was on the body of Christ as an organism and the spiritual unity in Christ of all believers - in reaction to the deadness and formalism of the organized church systems and the ecclesiastical Heirarchy. A man by the name of John Nelson Darby was the leading spirit among the Plymouth Brethren from 1830 onward. Darby was from a prosperous Irish family, was educated as a lawyer, took high honors at Dublin University, then turned aside, to his father's chagrin, to become a minister.

Thus Irving and Darby were contemporaries, though associated with different spiritual movements. Another series of meetings were in progress at this time, a group of seeking Christians were meeting in the castle of Lady Powerscourt for the study of Bible prophecy. Many clergymen attended, and quite a few who were Irvingites. The Irvingites came to the meetings obsessed with the ideas of the "Secret Rapture" and the future Antichrist, imbibed from the Jesuit Lacunza's book. J.N. Darby and the other Brethren leaders were invited to these meetings and became participators in them. It was there that he was introduced to the Jesuit teaching of the Secret Rapture and the futurist interpretation of prophecy, as well as the famous book by Rabbi Ben-Ezra, or, actually, Jesuit priest Emmanuel Lacunza! Darby was himself a prolific writer and from that time a constant stream of propaganda came from his pen. His writings on biblical subjects number over 30 volumes of 600 pages each. Darby developed and organized "futurism" into a system of prophetic teaching called "dispensationalism." Darby' s biographers refer to him as "the father of dispensationalism." And the crown jewel in the kingdom of dispensationalism is, of course, the so-called SECRET RAPTURE!

The Secret Rapture teaching was introduced into the United States and Canada in the 1860's and 1870's, though there is some indication that it may have been taught as early as the 1840's. Darby himself visited the United States six times. The "new" teaching was spreading. A Congregationalist preacher by the name of C. I. Scofield came under the influence of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. Scofield became a strong promoter of the teaching that had been promulgated by Darby, whom he considered "the most profound Bible student of modern times." He incorporated this teaching into his SCOFIELD REFERENCE BIBLE. The Scofield Reference Bible was destined to have a tremendous impact upon the beliefs of many, when, three million copies were published in the first 50 years! Through this Bible Scofield shrewdly carried the teaching of the Secret Rapture into the very heart of Evangelicalism. Some ignorant souls look on the "notes" in this Bible as the Word of God itself! I do not doubt for one instant that many who read these lines have been influenced somewhere in their spiritual lives by the "footnotes" in the Scofield Bible!

There is one final link in the chain of the development and spread of the rapture theory that should be mentioned in passing. I would draw your attention again to the SOURCE, the ORIGIN of the rapture doctrine and the chain of contact by which it has been brought down to us today. It began as a Roman Catholic invention! The Jesuit priest Ribera's writings influenced the Jesuit priest Lacunza, Lacunza influenced Irving, Irving influenced Darby, Darby influenced Scofield, Scofield and Darby influenced D. L. Moody, and Moody influenced the early PENTECOSTAL MOVEMENT. How? you ask. The Assemblies of God is today by far the largest Pentecostal denomination in the world. When the Pentecostal movement began at the turn of the century and the Assemblies of God held their first General Council in 1914 in Hot Springs, Arkansas they were a small movement and didn't have their own Publishing House. They needed Sunday School and study materials for their Churches - so where do you suppose they got it? They bought it from Moody Press and had their own cover stitched on it! So what do you think the Assemblies of God people believed? They believed what Moody Bible Institute taught! This had its impact on Pentecostal theology, because in the early years there were practically NO PREMILLENIALISTS IN THE PENTECOSTAL MOVEMENT! Most of the ministers in those early days came from Presbyterian, Methodist, or other historic denominations - men who, being baptized in the Holy Spirit and leaving their denominations, joined themselves to the Assemblies of God or one of the other emerging Pentecostal denominations. That is how the Pentecostal movement became influenced and saturated with the "Secret Rapture" doctrine - by a direct chain right back to the Roman Catholic Church! And now, my friend - you know the REST OF THE STORY!

[Miriam]

I've believed this for a long time - that those who are in Christ are the ones who are left, to inhabit the new earth.

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

Yes, although the new earth to be filled is the all things that the Father gave Him. which includes humans. because JC completed His mission to save all mankind, (2011) years ago , all are saved now , including Hitler etc...

past these....

done....

all non- sinners. non-followers of Law.  Living out the life of the new life in Christ.  the new life bought and paid for 2011 years ago...

[WhiteWings]

There is no new earth at Revelation. At least not yet.
The new earth comes way after the rapture/tribulation/or whatever way you want to name it.
My post wasn't about a new earth. I posted it to make a few points:


a] Rapture is a RCC invention to get rid of the beast image they got by all their wars, witch burnings etc
b] During the so called rapture returns to earth and stays here. He isn't taking anyone to heaven.
c] Saints and sinners go to the tribulation.
d] Believers are resurrected in two waves.

More to follow if I get the impression people even care to at least quicly read my post instead of getting triggered by a word in the topic title.

[Miriam]

More to follow if if I get the impression people even care to at least quicly read my post instead of getting triggered by a word in the topic title.

That's unfair. I read your post and at least part of it is about Jesus establishing his kingdom on earth, where the left-behind saints are.

Below another set of verse that is used to prove saints are raptured away. But proves the opposite...
It are the ones that were eating, drinking and marrying that were took away by the flood. Not believer Noach.
YLTMatthew 24
37 and as the days of Noah--so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man;
38 for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark,
39 and they did not know till the flood came and took all away; so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man.
40 Then two men shall be in the field, the one is received, and the one is left;

YLTGenesis 2
24 therefore doth a man leave his father and his mother, and hath cleaved unto his wife, and they have become one flesh.
==> The groom leaves his parents not the bride...

The whole point of the so called rapture is that Jesus returns to earth to establish His kingdom.

Unless I've totally misunderstood the whole thing. Anything is possible.  :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

You are right Miriam. It was a general remark (blowing off a bit of steam) and a reply to Lee.
Sure there will be a new earth. But that's not what my post is about. During the socalled rapture there is nothing new about the earth. It's still the same of corrupt planet.
The perfect new earth is when Jesus is done submitting.
But during the rapture Jesus is just arriving. He hasn't even started His kingdom job.

[Molly]

But during the rapture Jesus is just arriving. He hasn't even started His kingdom job.

Yes.  I agree.  It's the beginning of the new age.

Although I'm sure Satan would love to see us all removed from the earth.

[jabcat]

Interesting.  Keep on walkin'.

[WhiteWings]

^ACVLev 23
34 Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, On the fifteenth day of this seventh month is the feast of tabernacles for seven days to LORD.
35 On the first day shall be a holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work.
36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire to LORD. On the eighth day shall be a holy convocation to you, and ye shall offer an offering made by fire to LORD. It is a solemn assembly; ye shall do no servile work.
37 These are the set feasts of LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to LORD, a burnt-offering, and a meal-offering, a sacrifice, and drink-offerings, each on its own day.
38 Besides the Sabbaths of LORD, and besides your gifts, and besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill-offerings, which ye give to LORD.
39 However on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruits of the land, ye shall keep the feast of LORD seven days. On the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.
40 And ye shall take to you on the first day the fruit of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook, and ye shall rejoice before LORD your God seven days.
41 And ye shall keep it a feast to LORD seven days in the year. It is a statute forever throughout your generations. Ye shall keep it in the seventh month.
42 Ye shall dwell in booths seven days. All who are home-born in Israel shall dwell in booths,
43 that your generations may know that I made the sons of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt. I am LORD your God.

Bit strange a 7 day feast that lasts 8 days. The feast is also called Succoth. Succoth is a place in Egypt where they lived.
So like Passover (when the Jews left Egypt and Jesus died) Tabernacles also is linked to the escape out of Egypt.
At passover things just started for the Jews. They escaped Egypt at passover but they were a long way from the promised land. It took 2 years to get there. They arrived at Tabernacles. The whole point is that Passover is just the start of the journey. A journey 7 billion people need to make. Not just Jews from ancient times.
Everybody lives in Egypt. Everybody needs to escape (be saved) at his/her own passover, from atheist to believer I guess  :winkgrin:, but that's just a first step of many steps that form a journey to the promised land called "heaven".
Arrival at heaven is celebrated at Tabernacles. Tabernacles the feast that lasts 7 days. Compare that to the 7 days of the famous tribulation.
Just a coincidence don't you think.....?

So they left at Passover and arrived 2 years later at Tabernacles. But they didn't enter because they didn't trust God the land was safe.
Why they didn't trust God? They weer missing a piece of the puzzle....

^ACVExod 20
18 And all the people perceived the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the voice of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking. And when the people saw it, they trembled, and stood afar off.
19 And they said to Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear, but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
20 And Moses said to the people, Fear not, for God has come to prove you, and that his fear may be before you, that ye not sin.
21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was.

They refused to listen to God. They didn't get their Pentecost. Note that what is translated as "hear" means "obey" in Hebrew.
Finally 38 year later the Jews did enter the land. But not at Tabernacles but at Passover. So basically in all those 40 years their made no or very little progress. They were still very mortal Jews while 38 years ago their glorified bodies were just waiting for them just over the border of the promised land.


The feats of Tabernacles is also called the feast of booth. During the feats of Tabernacles people camped in huts of cut off living tree branches that represent being clothed with immortality.

^ACV2Cor 5
1 For we know that if the earthly house of our tent were destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made by hands, eternal in the heavens.
====> We die and get another body

2 For also in this we groan, longing to clothe ourselves with our habitation from heaven,
3 if indeed also having put it on we will not be found naked.
4 For also those who are in the tent groan, being burdened, not in that we want to undress, but to clothe ourselves, so that the mortal may be swallowed up by the life.
5 Now he who wrought us for this same thing is God, who also gave us the pledge of the Spirit.

The immortal body is given the first day of Tabernacles; but we have to wait 7 days (Numbers 19:11) because our spirit is unclean it has touched or mortal/dead body.

Getting immortal bodies is like being reborn. Babies are presented in the Temple on the 8th day
^ACVExod 22
29 Thou shall not delay to offer from thy harvest, and from the outflow of thy presses. The first-born of thy sons thou shall give to me.
30 Likewise thou shall do with thine oxen, [and] with thy sheep. Seven days it shall be with its dam. On the eighth day thou shall give it me.

In the law of priesthood, it takes a full seven days to consecrate a priest, and then they emerge for ministry on the eighth day, at which time the glory of God is manifested.

The overcomes will become Melchizedek/Zadok priests who can as they chose switch between spiritual (linen) clothing and glorified flesh (wool) bodies like Jesus after His resurrection.

^YLTEzek 44
17 And it hath come to pass, in their going in unto the gates of the inner court, linen garments they put on; and no wool cometh up on them in their ministering in the gates of the inner court and within.
19 And in their going forth unto the outer court--unto the outer court unto the people--they strip off their garments, in which they are ministering, and have placed them in the holy chambers, and have put on other garments; and they do not sanctify the people in their own garments.


But there are also another type of priests that only wear wool.
^YLTEzek 44
10 but--the Levites who have gone far off from me, in the wandering of Israel when they went astray from Me after their idols, and they have borne their iniquity.
11 And they have been in My sanctuary ministrants, overseers at the gates of the house, and ministrants at the house; they slay the burnt-offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they stand before them to serve them.
12 Because that they serve them before their idols, and have been to the house of Israel for a stumbling-block of iniquity, therefore I have lifted up my hand against them--an affirmation of the Lord Jehovah--and they have borne their iniquity.
13 And they draw not nigh unto Me to act as My priest, and to draw nigh unto any of My holy things, unto the holy of holies, and they have borne their shame and their abominations that they have done,
14 and I made them keepers of the charge of the house, for all its service and for all that is done in it.

Zadok priests are wise virgins.
Levite priest are foolish virgins.


Moses went 8 time on the mountain.

Trip 1: Ex. 19:3 to Ex. 19:7    Sign 1: John 2:1-10 (Marriage feast of Cana, turning water to wine)
Trip 2: Ex. 19:8 to Ex. 19:14   Sign 2: John 4:46-54 (the Nobleman healed)
Trip 3: Ex. 19:20 to Ex. 19:25  Sign 3: John 5:1-13 (the Bethesda healing)
Trip 4: Ex. 20:21 to Ex. 24:3   Sign 4: John 6:1-13 (Feeding the 5,000)
Trip 5: Ex. 24:9                Sign 5: John 6:16-25 (Walking on the water, Jesus comes to the disciples)
Trip 6: Ex. 24:15 to Ex. 32:15  Sign 6: John 9:1-7 (the Blind Man healed)
Trip 7: Ex. 32:31 to Ex. 32:34  Sign 7: John 11:1-45 (Lazarus raised from the dead)
Trip 8: Ex. 34:4 to Ex. 34:29   Sign 8: John 21:3-12 (the 153 large fish caught)



As you can see, the fifth sign in John shows Jesus coming to the disciples in the middle of the sea of Galilee, with Peter going out to meet Him. It is comparable to Moses' fifth trip, where the seventy elders went up to meet the Lord and "saw the God of Israel."

John structures his Gospel in a unique way. First comes the sign, then the reaction of the people, followed by specific teachings of Jesus that help us to understand that sign. The fourth and fifth signs, however, are an exception to the general rule, because they appear back-to-back, with reaction and commentary coming only after both signs are complete. It is as if John wanted to draw attention to the middle signs.

Both signs are recorded in the first half of John 6, and only then do we see the reaction of the nay-sayers. Then in the rest of John 6 is commentary on the fourth sign. John 7, the story of how Jesus kept Tabernacles, is actually the commentary on the fifth sign. You will have to read John 6 and 7 for yourself to get a clear picture of the sequence of events and how they relate to the Feast of Tabernacles.

As I said, the story in John 7 is the story illustrating the fifth sign where Jesus came to the disciples in the middle of the sea of Galilee, and Peter went out to meet Him (Matt. 14:29). Look at the similarities.

In John 6, Jesus told the disciples to go out ahead of him across the lake into the storm (tribulation). Then He came to them after they had gone 25 or 30 furlongs (6:19), which was the middle of the lake. When Jesus got into the boat, the entire boat was transported to Capernaum (6:21, 24). Capernaum means "the Covering of the Comforter." It speaks of the fullness of the Spirit.

In the same manner, in John 7, Jesus told His disciples to go to Jerusalem ahead of Him (7:8) to observe the feast of Tabernacles (7:2). Then later Jesus came and manifested Himself in the temple in the middle of the feast (7:14). I relate this also to the prophecy in Mal. 3:1, " And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple."

Then on the last great day of the feast, Jesus stood up and shouted (7:37),

37 If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, from his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

This event occurred on the eighth day of Tabernacles. It correlates with the story in John 6, when Jesus took the disciples to Capernaum, "the Covering of the Comforter." The overcomers must be given the fullness of the Spirit in order to return with the glorified body (as per Moses) and begin their work of priestly ministry in the earth, changing clothes at will. The types of both Old and New Testament show this to be the purpose of the eighth day of Tabernacles.

So if we summarize our findings, we see that the Feast of Tabernacles begins by giving birth to the Manchild—that is, giving the overcomers immortality. It also begins a seven-day time of cleansing from touching a dead body, as well as beginning a seven-day consecration to the priesthood for ministry.

Jesus then comes to the overcomers in the middle of the Feast, perhaps on the fifth day. On the Feast of Trumpets over two weeks earlier the dead were raised to meet the Lord; but in the midst of Tabernacles it appears that the living overcomers, represented by Peter, will go out to meet Him.

What? Two "raptures"? Well, there is no biblical statement saying otherwise. Paul gives us the order of events, but does not give us details in 1 Thess. 4:16, 17,

16... the dead in Christ shall rise first. 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

So first the dead will be raised, and we will meet Him above ground in the air. The next event will be the catching away of those who are "alive and remain." This is not a statement that establishes timing. It only establishes the order of events. Paul's only statement about timing comes earlier in verse 15, saying that we who are alive will not precede those who have already died.

The blowing of the trumpet at the Feast of Trumpets signifies a gathering of leaders in a resurrection from the dead. But the prophetic type in Moses and Jesus show us that Jesus comes to the living overcomers in the midst of Tabernacles, with Peter going out to meet Him.

Further, if there is to be a seven-year time of tribulation, then it is represented by the storm on Galilee.


The purpose of the Feast of Trumpets is to bring back the dead overcomers, who were the living stones completed in the past. Then comes the Jubilee, where the living overcomers, like Jacob, are given the new name, Israel. Then comes the Feast of Tabernacles, where the living overcomers are brought into immortality, for Christ will not be unequally yoked together, nor will He marry "strange flesh." As long as we are mortal, we cannot be joined by an immortal Head.

Thus, the living overcomers must be "changed in the atoms (atomos) in the twinkling of an eye" (1 Cor. 15:51, 52). But the end is not yet, for it requires seven days of cleansing before they can be presented to the Father.

In the middle of their cleansing time, probably on the fifth day, Christ comes to the disciples in the midst of the feast to join the Head with the Body. The reason He must come prior to the eighth of Tabernacles is to give the New Man a Head. Only then is the Body complete and can be presented faultless to God according to the law of priestly qualifications.

On the eighth day, then, this complete New Man is presented to God in the Sanctuary in heaven, whereupon He emerges from the Sanctuary to manifest His glory to the people on earth, even as was done in Leviticus 9 at the consecration of Aaron and his sons.

This will begin a new administration in the earth (Dan. 7:18), and the Kingdom of God — the Stone Kingdom —will grow until it fills the whole earth (Dan. 2:35). The earth will not be destroyed by this "fire" of the presence of God. The fire is His glory that will destroy all sin and all corruption.

When all form and structure of creation has ended its rebellion and has once again come under the authority of the Creator, then it can be said that all things are put under His feet, and God is all in all (1 Cor. 15:28). Death itself will then be abolished (1 Cor. 15:26), the great Creation Jubilee will be declared, and the divine Plan will be accomplished.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: There is no literal physical rapture the way it's being taught; it's an error, and keeps people being as the men who were looking up into natural clouds waiting for his return.
The only purpose it serves as far as I can tell, is that it's been really effective at keeping the Jews from recognizing their Messiah. My  :2c:

[WhiteWings]

It seems to me there is no rapture at all. Not physically and not spiritually. The whole idea (of the article/post) is that Jesus joins the saints on earth instead of taking them away 


The rapture theory is less than 200 years old so I can't see how it can be the reason Jews don't recognize Jesus.
The rapture theory learns heavily on the NT. A book the Jew consider uninspired so I don't see how it can effect what they believe.

[Miriam]

You are right Miriam. It was a general remark (blowing off a bit of steam) and a reply to Lee.

Ok. Thanks.  :bigGrin:

I've heard some say there won't be a physical rapture or second coming of Jesus in the way we (I) have traditionally accepted, because he came by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. He's already here and on his Kingdom business.  :dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

I've mixed feelings Miriam.
The verses I quoted in the first post seem to strongly suggest Jesus comes to earth and stays on earth. What it doesn't say is when it happens.
It takes Jesus a 1000 year to fully submit people. Then I think it must be a spiritual return only.
Just imagine Jesus and a few 1000 overcomers in glorified bodies. Bullet proof. Walk though walls. Teleportation. Etc.
My guess is people would be very quickly convinced Christianity is real and not some fantasy.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I'm referring to the present day Jews; that is *one* of the doctrines the "church" has adopted that blinds them to the truth of who the Messiah was/is.

[WhiteWings]

Maybe there is some confusion about "church".
Are you saying Christian teachings are one of the things that blind Jews?
If so my answer is that they put just as much value in the NT as you in quran.
In other words I don't see how they can be influence by Christians with a in their eyes false religion that's based on a none inspired book so every teaching based on the NT is by definition not worth listening to.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: What I'm saying is that when you talk to Jews or new Messianics, which I have, one point that comes up most often in why they refuse/ed to look at Yeshua as the Jewish Messiah, is because of the ridiculous and unbiblical rapture teaching.

[WhiteWings]

I think you can add Sunday, hell and <forbidden word> to that list too. (likely among other things)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Exactly. IMO, the original church's meandering away from it's JEWISH roots, is the cause for all their errors in the first place. They left the pattern given, then are clueless as to why nothing "works" right, and why they have 10,000 denominations.

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Exactly. IMO, the original church's meandering away from it's JEWISH roots, is the cause for all their errors in the first place. They left the pattern given, then are clueless as to why nothing "works" right, and why they have 10,000 denominations.

I think Molly posted a great list on that subject....
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/arguments_against_universal_salvation/was_church_rome_really_first_church_7783.msg121899.html#msg121899

[thinktank]

:cloud9: What I'm saying is that when you talk to Jews or new Messianics, which I have, one point that comes up most often in why they refuse/ed to look at Yeshua as the Jewish Messiah, is because of the ridiculous and unbiblical rapture teaching.

Sounds a bit adbsurd, sounds like they have to much pride or something.

[thinktank]

Many saw that the RCC persecution of dissidents (later called Protestants) throughout the Church Age was the persecution of the saints portrayed in the book of Revelation. It was commonly believed that the Papal system itself was "Antichrist," the "little horn" coming out of the great iron (Roman) beast in Daniel 7:20.

The Roman Church was, of course, stung by this criticism. They could not deny their policy of burning dissidents at the stake, for this was openly discussed even by Roman bishops, cardinals, and the popes themselves.

Neither could they deny the fact that the Roman Church was an extension of the Roman Empire, for the Church assumed power when the old Roman government fell in 476 A.D. The Protestant reformers were quick to point out the Papal boast of having the power to overrule the precepts of the apostles and of Jesus Christ Himself. These papal decrees were a perfect match with what Daniel wrote about the "little horn" in Dan. 7:20, " that horn [governmental power] which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts." But what about for example Tabernacles.....?

To deflect all that criticism a Spanish Jesuit wrote a book that places the rapture in the future. That way it's impossible that RCC is the beast system.
Regardless how good or bad  the RCC is it's not a church in the Biblical definition. congregation, not the organization or the building.

One of the main flaws of many "theory builders" is that they have little knowledge of the Jewish feasts. And if they do they dismiss them as "done away" laws.
But in reality the 3 harvest feasts are 3 prophesies of His coming. The first one Passover everybody knows about (under the pagan name Easter).
That was His first coming.


^YLT1 Thessalonians 4
15 for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living--who do remain over to the presence of the Lord--may not precede those asleep,
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;

The verse shows an order. First the dead and then (next) those who are alive. The big question is when is "next"? 1 second later? A day? A month? A year?...
Many have a opinion on that. But based on what? Doctrine or a bunch of verses?

Meet (in Greek) means 'meet and return with an escort'.
^YLTMatthew 25
1 `Then shall the reign of the heavens be likened to ten virgins, who, having taken their lamps, went forth to meet the bridegroom;
2 and five of them were prudent, and five foolish;
3 they who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil;
4 and the prudent took oil in their vessels, with their lamps.
5 `And the bridegroom tarrying, they all nodded and were sleeping,
6 and in the middle of the night a cry was made, Lo, the bridegroom doth come; go ye forth to meet him.
7 `Then rose all those virgins, and trimmed their lamps,
8 and the foolish said to the prudent, Give us of your oil, because our lamps are going out;
The virgins are talking with each other. They are in the same room.
9 and the prudent answered, saying--Lest there may not be sufficient for us and you, go ye rather unto those selling, and buy for yourselves.
10 `And while they are going away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those ready went in with him to the marriage-feasts, and the door was shut;
The 5 foolish virgins returned to the same room but the door was shut
11 and afterwards come also do the rest of the virgins, saying, Sir, sir, open to us;
The groom was INSIDE the room. Maybe the wise virgins walked a mile to the groom with their lamps but that's not the point. They are now back in exactly the same place they were before. It's the groom that's at another place.
So if that represents the rapture it isn't the wise going to Jesus but Jesus going to the wise....


A similar situation in this verse:
^YLTActs 28
15 and thence, the brethren having heard the things concerning us, came forth to meet us, unto Appii Forum, and Three Taverns--whom Paul having seen, having given thanks to God, took courage.

Paul (the groom) came from Jerusalem. The believers (the 5 virgins) came from Rome (=the room) and took Paul back to Rome.

The whole point of meeting Jesus in the air is that the believer go to Jesus to escort Him back to earth.


-----------------


This  wings does  not disprove the rapture or a resurrection.
Have you not read that in the rapture theory, the saints will return on glorious white horses to pronounce judgment upon the world, do you not know that saints shall judge angels? and who is the master judge? Christ of course and he has the leading white horse in rev 20 with many crowns.
TT

==================

Another verse that is used to support the idea that saints are raptured away before the tribulation starts:
^YLTRevelation 7
14 and I have said to him, `Sir, thou hast known;' and he said to me, `These are those who are coming out of the great tribulation, and they did wash their robes, and they made their robes white in the blood of the Lamb;
==>The verse simply states they come out of it. Not that they escape it. In fact to come out of something you have to be in it.

-------------
Yes they did their service to God by dying for him. Since they could not overcome their lusts and evil, they instead will die for the Lord, a worthy sacrifice that Jesus will accept. Remember Cain sacrifice was unworthy? and he felt bad. Dying for Jesus will be an honor for these people, so it is written , blessed are the dead from henceforth, their works do follow them. What works is that I wonder? I doubt it is drinking, adultery, lying, defrauding, stealing, lusting, So the worthy work that these moral failures can give Jesus is to sacrifice their head and die for Him.
Those that knew their masters will but did evil , will be beaten by many stripes.
Simply writing what's in the word readers.

==================

Just read the blue parts of the verses below.
^YLTMatthew 24
29 `And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;
31 and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

Below another set of verse that is used to prove saints are raptured away. But proves the opposite...
It are the ones that were eating, drinking and marrying that were took away by the flood. Not believer Noach.
^YLTMatthew 24
37 and as the days of Noah--so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man;
38 for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark,
39 and they did not know till the flood came and took all away; so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man.
40 Then two men shall be in the field, the one is received, and the one is left;

^YLTGenesis 2
24 therefore doth a man leave his father and his mother, and hath cleaved unto his wife, and they have become one flesh.
==> The groom leaves his parents not the bride...

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But yet Jesus refuses entry to 50% of the virgins. A small detail you overlooked perhaps?

============

The whole point of the so called rapture is that Jesus returns to earth to establish His kingdom. The overcomers see Him approaching and run to Him to walk Him to earth. Those who have a dog and where away a few days will understand that principle. The dog will celebrate the feast of barking Trumpets.  :winkgrin:

----------

So you compare Jesus to a dog? I thought it was Jesus who called us the dogs  :dontknow:


================
^YLTNumbers 10
2 `Make to thee two trumpets of silver; beaten work thou dost make them, and they have been to thee for the convocation of the company, and for the journeying of the camps;
3 and they have blown with them, and all the company have met together unto thee, unto the opening of the tent of meeting.
4 And if with one they blow, then have the princes, heads of the thousands of Israel, met together unto thee;
==> If 2 trumpets are blown all people should gather. If 1 trumpet is blown only the leaders.

^YLT1 Thessalonians 4
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
==> 1 trump is blown. The sign for leaders... Not for the masses. Not even for the whole "church".


^YLTJohn 5
28 `Wonder not at this, because there doth come an hour in which all those in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.
==> This verse can't be about the first resurrection because it was limited "the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years
were finished."

So the saints are raised in (at least) 2 stages.

^YLTIsaiah 65
20 There is not thence any more a suckling of days, And an aged man who doth not complete his days, For the youth a hundred years old dieth, And the sinner, a hundred years old, is lightly esteemed.
==> There will be immortality for some but the sinner will die at a minimum age of 100 years.
==>  Some will receive the better resurrection of Hebrews 11:35. Many will not.

---------------

At last someone who mentions concerning the 100 year lifespan, instead of just wishing it just goes away.
TT
================


The feasts:
Passover: The Exodus from Egypt (Ex. 12, 13)
Wave Sheaf Offering: Crossing the Red Sea (Ex. 14)
Pentecost: Giving the Law at Sinai (Ex. 20)
Trumpets: Building the Silver Trumpets (Num. 10)
Atonement: The Twelve Spies give an Evil Report (Num. 13)
Tabernacles: The Day Israel was Supposed to Enter Canaan, but did not (Num. 14).

Trumpets
Jacob's family was divided into two companies, or camps. This
speaks of the Feast of Trumpets, where the believers will be divided into two companies: the congregation
(church) and the rulers (overcomers). They are also represented by Leah and Rachel, the two wives of Jacob,
for Leah had weak eyes, while Rachel was beautiful (Gen. 29:17).
Leah produced the most children, even as the Church is in the majority. Though she was a lawful wife, she did
not have a love relationship with Jacob. This foreshadows those believers who are Christians only because they
are afraid of burning in hell forever. Their love is not yet perfected, for they are still afraid of God. "Perfect love
casts out fear" (1 John 4:18).
Rachel, the beloved wife, produced the fewest children, but her son, Joseph, was the inheritor of the birthright.
Joseph represents the overcomers.
And so, the two companies at Mahanaim show us the type and shadow of the Feast of Trumpets and the fact
that on this day the overcomers will be raised out from among the dead. The first resurrection will divide
people into two camps. For this reason, the apostle Paul said in Phil. 3:11, " in order that I may attain to the
out-resurrection from among the dead" [ek-anastasis ek nekron].
The usual word for resurrection is anastasis, as used in the previous verse. But verse 11 uses the Greek word,
ek-anastasis, which literally means the "out-from-resurrection." In The Companion Bible, Bullinger comments
on this, saying,
"Resurrection from the dead (ek nekron) implies the resurrection of some, the former of these two
classes, the others being left behind."


End of part 1

========

I'm glad you believe or at least mentally acknowledge the resurrection. A lot of rapture debunker's are n fact modern day Sadducee who deny the resurrection, so I'm careful of anyone who denies the rapture.

-------------------.

[WhiteWings]

TT,

This  wings does  not disprove the rapture or a resurrection.
Have you not read that in the rapture theory, the saints will return on glorious white horses to pronounce judgment upon the world, do you not know that saints shall judge angels? and who is the master judge? Christ of course and he has the leading white horse in rev 20 with many crowns.

How can I disprove resurrection without even mentioning it? Resurrection is one of the pillars of Christianity. But my post wasnt't about that at all.
Quoting myself: The whole point of meeting Jesus in the air is that the believer go to Jesus to escort Him back to earth.

The whole point of the so called rapture is that Jesus returns to earth to establish His kingdom. The overcomers see Him approaching and run to Him to walk Him to earth. Those who have a dog and where away a few days will understand that principle. The dog will celebrate the feast of barking Trumpets. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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So you compare Jesus to a dog? I thought it was Jesus who called us the dogs 

You obviously don't have a dog... :winkgrin:
The dog runs like crazy to meet it's master that was away for a while. Then they walk both to the place where the dog was. Again that's my whole point. The saints that meet Jesus in the air are the dogs that meet their master. The master is coming home....
Classic rapture teaching says Jesus comes to collect the saints and guide them to heaven. The Bible seems to say Jesus is joining the saints on earth.

But yet Jesus refuses entry to 50% of the virgins. A small detail you overlooked perhaps?

Personally I would estimate Jesus denies entry for 99% of the virgins. But I have to add that the "rapture" is about the 'first wave of salvation'. It's only about the saints/barley harvest/overcomers/....
I wouldn't be suprised if the overcomers are the angels in this verse:
^EBRRevelation 14
10 he also, shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared, unmixed, in the cup of his anger; ––and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone, before holy messengers and before the Lamb;

I'm glad you believe or at least mentally acknowledge the resurrection. A lot of rapture debunker's are n fact modern day Sadducee who deny the resurrection, so I'm careful of anyone who denies the rapture.

TT, you really need to reread my post! I never spoke about/denied resurrection. I never said Jesus and/or the saints are dog. (I bet the mods would have pressed the big red edit button if they did read my post that way) You have the right to 100% disagree with my post; but don't then disagree with what I wrote and not what I didn't.
:thumbsup:

[Molly]

Trumpets
Jacob's family was divided into two companies, or camps. This
speaks of the Feast of Trumpets, where the believers will be divided into two companies: the congregation
(church) and the rulers (overcomers). They are also represented by Leah and Rachel, the two wives of Jacob,
for Leah had weak eyes, while Rachel was beautiful (Gen. 29:17).
Leah produced the most children, even as the Church is in the majority. Though she was a lawful wife, she did
not have a love relationship with Jacob. This foreshadows those believers who are Christians only because they
are afraid of burning in hell forever. Their love is not yet perfected, for they are still afraid of God. "Perfect love
casts out fear" (1 John 4:18).
Rachel, the beloved wife, produced the fewest children, but her son, Joseph, was the inheritor of the birthright.
Joseph represents the overcomers.
And so, the two companies at Mahanaim show us the type and shadow of the Feast of Trumpets and the fact
that on this day the overcomers will be raised out from among the dead. The first resurrection will divide
people into two camps. For this reason, the apostle Paul said in Phil. 3:11, " in order that I may attain to the
out-resurrection from among the dead" [ek-anastasis ek nekron].
The usual word for resurrection is anastasis, as used in the previous verse. But verse 11 uses the Greek word,
ek-anastasis, which literally means the "out-from-resurrection." In The Companion Bible, Bullinger comments
on this, saying,
"Resurrection from the dead (ek nekron) implies the resurrection of some, the former of these two
classes, the others being left behind."

I really enjoyed this, TT. 

If by any means I might attain unto

Phil 1:11
[the] "resurrection" [of the dead]
G1815
ἐξανάστασις
exanastasis
ex-an-as'-tas-is
From G1817; a rising from death: - resurrection.