I bet the topic title got some eyebrows raised.
There are various views on the ages of pre flood people.
a]
Adam died at an age of 930 years. Period. End of discussion.
b]
It aren't ages at all.
We all know certain numbers have a meaning. Like 7 for completion.
There are also other similar systems that 'rank people" Like 60 is perfection and 10 is complete so 600 is perfectly complete.
So the age is like a rating on tv show.
c]
The concept of digits was uknown.
Someone that died at the age of 504 was 50 years and 4 months old. Or something like that.
d]
Base 60
We usually count is base 10
0123456789 -> 9+1=10
Base 16 very frequently used in computer programming is like this
0123456789ABCDEF
F+1=10
There is also a base 60. We use it for time. 60 seconds in a minute. 60 minutes in a hour. 360 (=6x60) in degrees in a circle.
e]
Base 48
Same as the above. But just counting to 48.
Why does this matter?
How old is someone at the age of 10?
In binary (base 2) that person is 2 years old 1+1=10
In base16 that person is F+1=10 years old. But F stands for 15. So here 10 actually means 16.
Why did the people life much shorter after the flood? They didn't.
After the flood the Jews lived in an area that used base-10 like we use.
Pre flood Jews lived in a base-60 and base-48 area.
Its nearly impossible to explain without drawings so I just refer to the article linked below.
Grain merchants used a system with fractions. It's easy to sell half a bag of grain.
Live stock mechants only sold whole sheep. So they didn't knew fractions.
To add to the problem one system used base-48. The other base-60.
To stop bothering you with more vague stuff... translators assumed a non fraction system while it was a fraction system.
They assummed base 60 while it was base-48
Highly recommend. Imo: http://www.borderofinsanity.com/hosted/genesis-5-analysis.pdf
hi! I, for one, am a big fan of simplicity, as I figure the truth our Father wants/ed to communicate would be simplicity whenever possible, and not require complex formulas (or, for that matter, nuclear physicist intelligence)..
Also that the life span should (slowly) decrease from the state and stage of perfection makes sense to me. :smile: :Peace2:
It aren't complex formulas. It's simply not everyone used the same math system.
Hebrew is complex for you. But even 3 year old Jew kids speak it. And they say your language is difficult.
The base 48 people needed no formulas because they never heard of base-10. So there was no need to convert anything.
:girlheart:
"It aren't"??
"Why did the people life much shorter after the flood? They didn't."
Really? They didn't? So God told you that he was unable to get people to understand what he meant by the long ages before the flood?
Even Peter said the world that then was (before the flood)was different than the world we now have. Since you weren't there and there are no other eyewitnesses, it makes me wonder how you can be so sure of a biblical contradiction. Was it denying the global flood that started it all? :dontknow:
:HeartThrob:
Great topic Whitewings. I don't think we have met here on the forum, but I see you have been around for a while. I'm just a newbie :girlheart:
I am going to have study up on your post I think, my binary is not as sharp as it should be it seems :dunno2:
I discovered Eze 31 just this week. Wow, Father certainly opened my heart and soul to something I always expected. Adam was special.
Before this chapter / parable can be fully understood, it must be realized that Trees are people / races and nations. There are many types of Trees mentioned and it certainly allows for a totally different perspective on what the Garden of Eden actually was.
I include this now, as Ezekiel makes it very clear that Father or perhaps Yahweh made a very big deal of Adams passing.
I hope you find this as rewarding as I :HeartThrob:
Eze 31:1 In the eleventh year, in the third month on the first day, the word of the LORD came to me:
Eze 31:2 "Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and to his hordes: " 'Who can be compared with you in majesty?
Eze 31:3 Consider Assyria, once a cedar in Lebanon, with beautiful branches overshadowing the forest; it towered on high, its top above the thick foliage.
Eze 31:4 The waters nourished it, deep springs made it grow tall; their streams flowed all around its base and sent their channels to all the trees of the field.
Eze 31:5 So it towered higher than all the trees of the field; its boughs increased and its branches grew long, spreading because of abundant waters.
Eze 31:6 All the birds of the sky nested in its boughs, all the animals of the wild gave birth under its branches; all the great nations lived in its shade.
Eze 31:7 It was majestic in beauty, with its spreading boughs, for its roots went down to abundant waters.
Eze 31:8 The cedars in the garden of God could not rival it, nor could the junipers equal its boughs, nor could the plane trees compare with its branches— no tree in the garden of God could match its beauty.
Eze 31:9 I made it beautiful with abundant branches, the envy of all the trees of Eden in the garden of God.
Eze 31:10 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because the great cedar towered over the thick foliage, and because it was proud of its height,
Eze 31:11 I gave it into the hands of the ruler of the nations, for him to deal with according to its wickedness. I cast it aside,
Eze 31:12 and the most ruthless of foreign nations cut it down and left it. Its boughs fell on the mountains and in all the valleys; its branches lay broken in all the ravines of the land. All the nations of the earth came out from under its shade and left it.
Eze 31:13 All the birds settled on the fallen tree, and all the wild animals lived among its branches.
Eze 31:14 Therefore no other trees by the waters are ever to tower proudly on high, lifting their tops above the thick foliage. No other trees so well-watered are ever to reach such a height; they are all destined for death, for the earth below, among mortals who go down to the realm of the dead.
Eze 31:15 " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On the day it was brought down to the realm of the dead I covered the deep springs with mourning for it; I held back its streams, and its abundant waters were restrained. Because of it I clothed Lebanon with gloom, and all the trees of the field withered away.
Eze 31:16 I made the nations tremble at the sound of its fall when I brought it down to the realm of the dead to be with those who go down to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and best of Lebanon, the well-watered trees, were consoled in the earth below.
Eze 31:17 They too, like the great cedar, had gone down to the realm of the dead, to those killed by the sword, along with the armed men who lived in its shade among the nations.
Eze 31:18 " 'Which of the trees of Eden can be compared with you in splendor and majesty? Yet you, too, will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the earth below; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword. " 'This is Pharaoh and all his hordes, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "
Love Julie :HeartThrob:
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 14, 2013, 07:16:48 PM
It aren't complex formulas. It's simply not everyone used the same math system.
Hebrew is complex for you. But even 3 year old Jew kids speak it. And they say your language is difficult.
The base 48 people needed no formulas because they never heard of base-10. So there was no need to convert anything.
:girlheart:
hi! I'm referring to being a fan of and believer of simplicity for all languages to understand what it is Father was revealing.. When I read Genesis chapter five, it seems quite clear and easy for anyone to understand.. Whereas the base theory seems to lose that simplicity.
For instance, listing at what age/how many years, one was when they had the next in line.. and then, how old/how many years when they died, or total of years lived.
Also the scripture was copied word for word, letter for letter by the Hebrew/Jewish folks, if "years alive" wasn't meant I can't help thinking they would have expressed it differently, and would not lose the original intent of what was written..
I believe the life force (which is God) became less the further away in years mankind traveled from Eden, the original.. and I also believe if there were cave men, it was a back wards going from Eden and a degrading of mankind.. not an 'evolving' from the caves as is man's popular theory. I only mention it because it seems somewhat the same to me.. the lessening of the light/life within, including duration and length of life..
:smile: :hiya:
IMO, People all over the world knew what a year was. They would even say "in the 20th year of the reign of king so and so"
They also knew months and days. Even at the ark, it is noted that the doors to the ark were opened on the first day of the first month...Wonder if there's symbolism in that??
When the Bible says Moses' virility was not diminished at age 120, I guess we shouldn't be amazed if he was really only 12 and had led the people for only 4 years through the desert
Quote from: marie glen on August 14, 2013, 09:44:52 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 14, 2013, 07:16:48 PM
It aren't complex formulas. It's simply not everyone used the same math system.
Hebrew is complex for you. But even 3 year old Jew kids speak it. And they say your language is difficult.
The base 48 people needed no formulas because they never heard of base-10. So there was no need to convert anything.
:girlheart:
hi! I'm referring to being a fan of and believer of simplicity for all languages to understand what it is Father was revealing.. When I read Genesis chapter five, it seems quite clear and easy for anyone to understand.. Whereas the base theory seems to lose that simplicity.
For instance, listing at what age/how many years, one was when they had the next in line.. and then, how old/how many years when they died, or total of years lived.
Also the scripture was copied word for word, letter for letter by the Hebrew/Jewish folks, if "years alive" wasn't meant I can't help thinking they would have expressed it differently, and would not lose the original intent of what was written..
I believe the life force (which is God) became less the further away in years mankind traveled from Eden, the original.. and I also believe if there were cave men, it was a back wards going from Eden and a degrading of mankind.. not an 'evolving' from the caves as is man's popular theory. I only mention it because it seems somewhat the same to me.. the lessening of the light/life within, including duration and length of life..
:smile: :hiya:
I agree, Scripture was copied perfectly*. But still. Just compare the ages in the English LXX with the any other translation. Say KJV. You see many differences of exactly 100 years. In direct sight. No calculations of any sort needed. I still unsure where that difference comes from. But it's quite odd. The question is were did Moses get the age info? It was Moses who wrote down the ages. If you read the article you find something about tablets listing citizens. Sort of birth records. If that was intrepreted wrongly we get what the article is about. Obviously God Himself wouldn't be confused by any base system.
*=But it id become a great mess. Lots of corruption crept in. Wrong books got added etc. Ezra took all writings and destroyed vast amounts of corrupt junk. He was the one that invented the current Hebrew script to diffrenciate from their pagan neighbors. Maybe something went wrong in that area.
I don't agree Scripture is simple. On the contrary. It's extremely complex. 2000 years and 2 million scholars later it's still not understood. I would even say if it looks simple it's misunderstood. God is hiding billions of nuggets everywere.
Personally I find the enclosed .pdf very interesting. That's why I posted it. :LH: Not because it has any bearing on salvation. Not even doctrine I think.
So take it or leave it. (I'm saying that in a positive way!)
How often you found a post/article/book that made you think: I'm so stupid I overlooked that simple thing for years? I can say I've read many such articles....
:Peace2:
Most of scripture is plain and simple. If one wants to go to symbolism and hidden, esoteric meanings they may do so. It does not change the plain and simple meaning. There would be no childrens Bibles if most of what God wanted to tell us needed a scholar.
I'm with Mark Twain on this one. "I'm never bothered by the parts of the Bible I don't understand. It's the parts I do understand that bother me.
IMO, plain and simple, God loves us. He created us. We are all his children through creation and he wants us to honor and demonstrate our love for others (his other children) "and this is love, that a man lay down his life for his friends"
Love is honoring, serving, and sacrificing for others. If we can't do that, do you think it matters what you think about some lost manuscript with a "new" interpretation or the hidden meaning in something. I take God at his word, confident He tells us through his word what happened and how we are to respond to it.
seems we talk alot about proper translations here...example...greek hebrew,aramaic etc. and while
I personally didn't need to see these things to know God would not torture people forever in Hell
and accept UR..some it helped..
Glad some addressed that issue, in any case. Gld there re brothers that seek out such things,for the sake of
others[serving-sacrificing their time] delving into such things...
It IS THE GLORY OF GOD TO CONCEAL A MATTER..and the glory of kings to search them out.
I have found He makes it fun for us,like a treasure hunt....[where your'e treasure is..there your
heart shall be.]
Quote from: ded2daworld on August 14, 2013, 11:00:29 PM
Most of scripture is plain and simple. If one wants to go to symbolism and hidden, esoteric meanings they may do so. It does not change the plain and simple meaning. There would be no childrens Bibles if most of what God wanted to tell us needed a scholar.
I'm with Mark Twain on this one. "I'm never bothered by the parts of the Bible I don't understand. It's the parts I do understand that bother me.
IMO, plain and simple, God loves us. He created us. We are all his children through creation and he wants us to honor and demonstrate our love for others (his other children) "and this is love, that a man lay down his life for his friends"
Love is honoring, serving, and sacrificing for others. If we can't do that, do you think it matters what you think about some lost manuscript with a "new" interpretation or the hidden meaning in something. I take God at his word, confident He tells us through his word what happened and how we are to respond to it.
Well said D2 :HeartThrob:
Father made it very clear to me that He was not hidden in the pages of his Bible. Rather a great veil was lifted when I read the following for the first time.
Rom 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Honestly, it get's no clearer than this. Father's invisible qualities, his power and divine nature are CLEARLY seen in ALL of Creation. Yes, and they have been understood by people all over the world since the beginning of time. :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
If any should doubt this, just watch a young child in a flower garden :dsunny:
Jesus was also pretty clear on this too
Mat 18:3
And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Love Julie :girlheart:
Quote from: JulieTang84 on August 15, 2013, 12:32:53 AM
Father made it very clear to me that He was not hidden in the pages of his Bible.
I never said such a thing.
Things can be clear, simple, unhidden, etc. But if mankind doesn't understand* what's written He becomes hidden.
*=Could be due to doctrinal slants. Honest translation errors. You/we must keep in mind translation is a progressing science. Quite 'recently' at the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls scholars found they were wrong about things/assumptions. They were also forced to change opinions due to archeology. For example it was long believed Pilate was a Bible fantasy. Until they found a large stone (of an arena IIRC) with Pilate's name engraved in it. My point is that while I believe God did a great job having His truth written down, things got lost in translation. Or readers assume stuff because of ???? whatever.
If all is clear, why do you even bother to be here? Why this forum? If all was so obvious and clear we would all be at HS level. I somehow doubt HS reads here to learn stuff.
The greatest possible error of all is claiming the Bible is simple and fully understood.
Dunno if it's a correct English saying but in my language we have a saying that roughly translated reads:
"Emptiness/lazyness is the devil's pillow"
look! You are worthy to take the scroll and to open the seals! Rev 5 I wept and wept..because
no-one was found worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
Breaking the seals...there are seven of them...and only Jesus Christ opens aand reveals them.......
He give the Holy spirit to tell and declare the things pertaining unto Him...
when He opens the scriptures to us...'our hearts begin to burn"
if it was no mystery of Gd..they need be no revealing of the Son,or the Father to us. Everyone would know
Him and no-one would be in darkness...........now they be a lot that sy they know Him.....that He does
not know[I know my sheep and my sheep know me,another voice they will not listen too]
babylon confusion/Babel is incoherence of speech/confusion...and thus we see evidenced this
spirit in operation throughout the earth..in the many gospels/denominations
Quote from: sheila on August 15, 2013, 07:00:21 PM
look! You are worthy to take the scroll and to open the seals! Rev 5 I wept and wept..because
no-one was found worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
Breaking the seals...there are seven of them...and only Jesus Christ opens aand reveals them.......
The seal is not the best possible translation it were signatures. The scroll is signed by:
1. Bride - David, God's beloved.
2. Groom – Jesus.
3. Father of the bride – Jacob (Israel)
4. Father of the groom – Abraham (father of nations)
5. Scribe – Moses wrote the 5 "Ketubah books"
6. Two witnesses. Adam and Noah.
The scroll is Ketubah. A wedding contract. And guess what... only the groom was allowed to open it.
The 5 books of Moses are exactly what is found in a regular Ketubah. Ok a bit more long winded :winkgrin: but still exactly according to the pattern.
Rulers/Sovereigns have 'seal' rings.....that authenticate something as coming from them...signture
when something was written and sealed..the seal ring pressed a certain image into the wax......
an 'image' to keep wht was written from being tampered with,altered or seen by prying eyes.
The signet ring. Yes I fully agree.
In my absence I've been studying marriage among other things.
If I'm correct, which never is 100% certain, the wedding scroll contained no seals.
Signet rings were mainly owned by the upper class.
If you look at my list you see it would mean 7 different signet rings. I doubt many families had even one. Let alone the father and all his children. Most Jews aren't "Rulers/Sovereigns"
Anyway the more interesting point, for me that is, is the list itself.
there is an account in the scriptures that comes to mind. about a 'deed" that is seald and kept in a jar
field will yet be bought. Jesus as our kinsman-redeemer. Jeremiah 3
reminds me of Him..bringing us forth from captivity..into an inheritance in the land.