A different perception

[jugghead]

Does anyone see the law as the beginning AND the end, and then by that we see the grace of God?

What I mean by that is: when Paul talks about first is the natural and then the spiritual, our first perception of the law is a natural one, a perception that only sees it "AS" law, this is the beginning (our beginning) in how we understand it.

But then comes the spiritual, the Spirit of the Law, our perception of the law has now become a spiritual one in that we see the end (our end) in it. And what I mean by that is: because of the work of Christ in us, the law becomes our end in how we understand it. The law becomes "HIS WORK" in us.

Take the first commandment for example: "thou shall have no other gods before me" our first understanding is one of a natural understanding in that we have to obey it, but then our perception of it changes to the spiritual in that it becomes the result of the work He is doing in us.

Because He is doing a work in us, He is telling us, "thou shall have no other gods before me"
Because He is doing a work in us, He is telling us, "thou shall not make unto thee any graven image"
Because He is doing a work in us, He is telling us, "thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain"

And so on; Gods law becomes the result of the work He does in us. The law is fulfilled in us because of the work HE "has done", "is doing" and "will do" in us.

The reason I believe we first have to understand it in the natural is for the purpose of recognizing His authority, to not take advantage of His kindness in that He would do all the work, it is to understand that just because He is doing all the work to save us, it does not give us a license to sin.

It is seeing the picture between John the Baptist and Christ, John recognized the authority of Christ, the one to come, and He testified of that authority in saying that he himself was not the light.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8)

For by grace (His work in us) are ye saved through faith; (convinced that He is doing a work in us) and that not of yourselves (recognizing His authority in doing the work): it is the gift of God (His grace and authority in doing the work is our gift).

[Dandelion]

What I see is the Old Covenant Law transforming into the Law of Love, as Jesus fulfilled the Law.

No longer enough to follow what is written, now we must all write LOVE on our hearts, and see our mission to carry that love with us, in everything we do.

We bring the Law to the farthest reaches of loving God and loving our neighbor.

Our guide is our Lord and Savior, Jesus Himself, who gave up His own life, who lived a life of love, so that we might follow in His footsteps.

Romans 5:

6For at just the right time, while we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7It is rare indeed for anyone to die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him! 10For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life! 11Not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

The Law that once condemned Adam and Eve, now is transformed into the Love, which fulfilled the Law, through Christ, that saves the whole world.

It takes one's breathe away.........

D.

[Ross]

Paul differentiates between the law and grace.


Gal 3;19 " Why then was the law given?
                It was added because of transgressions, until the descendant should come to whom the promise had been made.
                It was established through angels by a mediator."

Gal 3;24 " Thus the law was our disciplinarian until the time of Christ,
                so that we might be declared righteous by faith."

Gal 4;4-7 " But when the fullness of time had come,
                 God sent forth His Son,
                 born of a woman, born under the law,
                 TO REDEEM THOSE WHO WERE UNDER THE LAW,
                 so that we might receive adoptions as sons.
                 And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, which cries out, 'Abba! Father!'
                 So you are no longer a slave, but a son;
                 and since you are a son, THEN YOU ARE AN HEIR THROUGH GOD."

I.M.O the commandments are to control us and give guidelines until coming of age at our appointed time, just like setting boundaries for kids until they grow up.
Love is greater than the law.

[Dandelion]

Yes, Ross, they are different. I understand what you are saying.

The Law convicts us; the Gospel saves us.

What I am saying is that, by Jesus fulfilling the Law, the ultimate result was that the Law is now manifested by complete Love.

And, Love is what Grace is made of. ( I am using artistic license a bit, here.)

The Law 'evolved' into Love, which includes Grace.

D.

[Ross]

What I am saying is that, by Jesus fulfilling the Law, the ultimate result was that the Law is now manifested by complete Love.

:thumbsup:

The Law 'evolved' into Love, which includes Grace.

:thumbsup: The law explains the grace; Paul does not shoot down the law, but clarifies the law as the guardian till coming of age.
Then sums up the law saying "love your neighbour".

P.S. the law didn't come till leaving Egypt- highlights coming out of Egypt as a part of the process to the better life.

[rosered]

Its amazing  how  Gods WORD is Truth   :thumbsup:  :HeartThrob:

Holy Spirit is to teach us and this prompting  to read   His Word than open it up in ways   that are glorious  ..

I love how Jesus  explains how HIS  SEED/WORD   is distributed  in all hearts

and  the parable   explaining   3 ways   , the hardened heart , and the heart whom it fell among  thorns and the  heart  that landed in the good soil  [  the meek shall inherit the earth  Matt 5 ] promised  land  in the old testament .


Having faith in God  being rooted and grounded in  the love of  Christ     :HeartThrob:


1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

Ephesians 2:20
built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone.

Ephesians 3:17
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

Ephesians 4:21
Surely you heard of Him and were taught in Him in keeping with the truth that is in Jesus.

Colossians 1:23
if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

  I have heard it said , that the Old testament   is a  testimony of the Son of God [the Promise of the Father ] and the new testament is  a testimony /witness of the   FATHER   by the Son of God fulfilling all things promised .

Fulfilled by BOTH BEING THE PURE TRUTH  , as the HOLY WORD BY THE HOLY SPIRIT   witnesses

[jugghead]

What I see is the Old Covenant Law transforming into the Law of Love, as Jesus fulfilled the Law.

This is what I said:

The Old Covenant Law (the beginning) transforming into the Law of Love (the end) ..... when Christ says that He is the beginning and the end, He is the reason the Old Covenant Law is transformed into the Law of Love (or grace)

and not just fulfilled in Him, but He is the reason it is fulfilled in us

Gal 3;24 " Thus the law was our disciplinarian until the time of Christ,
                so that we might be declared righteous by faith."

Love is greater than the law.

Yes, "UNTIL" the time of Christ when it would be transformed into the Law of Love ..... "declared righteous by faith" Yes, that we have been convinced (having faith) that because He is fulfilling "ALL" law in us we are declared righteous

Love is greater than the law "UNTIL" we understand that His fulfillment of the law in us "IS" showing us His love for us, which by it we see the grace of God in that love

The Law 'evolved' into Love, which includes Grace.

Yes, "evolved" is another word for "transformed"

You all said the same thing, I was explaining how I understand everything you guys said with more detail

The law was transformed or evolved in this manner

As law and through the prophets speaks of "the nature" of the One to come making it prophecy, so the law becomes prophecy, then from prophecy to the fulfillment of that prophecy in Christ, then He becomes the means "IN US" by which the law is seen as prophecy of Christ who came which we can now understand as the promise

Christ is the promise, the means by which we are declared righteous by His work "IN US" of fulfilling every aspect of the law "IN US"

ALL work is done by Him, through Him and for Him and that is the grace of God

its beginning was law and its end is Grace

But it never changed, our perception of it changed and our perception of it changed because of His work in us

God is creating us in His image by changing our old nature (our own perception of God) into His new nature (His perception of Himself)

[sheila]

the law was written for the lawless one[him not  concieved/operating/perfected in love] to restrain unloving acts behaviour/no peace

for the wicked.love perfected by the things suffered in the flesh. because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number

will wax cold.  but where lawlessness abounds grace is to abound more abundantly.  Grace...that God is not counting their sins against

them......grace abounding and allowing the growth of love[much patience until harvest]  we loved because He first loved us...


         Love is long-suffering[not desiring any perish] keeps no account of the injury.....these three things remain..faith,hope love

       faith that all will bear the image of Christ[be raised up in power] hope in that glorious day when God will be ALL in all!

    and the perfection of all all in love...in the very image of God/Christ...ONE

[jugghead]

it is going back to the original meaning of the word "law" meaning a command

If God speaks a command it will come to pass, just like when He said (gave the command) "Let there be light" it came to pass

When God gives the command "You shall have no other gods before me" it is a command that will come to pass because what He commands "WILL" come to pass, nothing we can do can stop it

When all His commands are completely fulfilled "in us" (Christ being the first) that is when we will be "all in all"

[rosered]

  Yeah , just like that !   that simple  :dsunny:

  I know the simplicity in Christ is the   key to understanding   Gods pure Word ......


K.i .s.s.
Keep it simple silly  :banana:


2 Cor  11 King James Version
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Darby Bible Translation
But I fear lest by any means, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craft, so your thoughts should be corrupted from simplicity as to the Christ.

World English Bible
But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Young's Literal Translation
and I fear, lest, as the serpent did beguile Eve in his subtilty, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in the Christ;

[jugghead]

thank you rose .... and by all the replies I was brought to that simplicity

thank you all

[sheila]

along with all the commands/law..the feasts were instituted...with passover lamb....and atonement..........making provision

  for those who could not fulfill it.mainly our flesh.  for the law is spiritual..and our flesh is  under sin's law/carnal.[when the commandment

  come...the sin in my flesh rose up and slayed me]

    laws of redemption/brother-in-law marriage etc. HE fulfills all of these for us. Love is full of Charity and gives to the poor

and needy[namely the sons of Adam.]

   when we rise up in Christ's image[just spirits of men made perfect] then we will be capable of keeping and fulfilling perfectly

  all His commands unto us[HE MUST MAKE US CAPABLE[the NEW CREATION]   bore corruptible/to bear incorruptible.

   Does He do works in men...yes. but due to flesh being weak......although the spirit is willing...He is raising us up in strength

  and power...incorruption/immortality.

      lightening the load on men..Jesus yoke...a few necessary things..and nothing else to burden us;abstain from blood,fornication

  idols and anything strangled.

   yes...the law will be performed in us perfectly..but He must enable us...we shall not all die..but we shall ALL BE CHANGED!

   corruption must put on incorruption......

   love is the fulfillment of the law....there is no law against love.   Love would call back those condemned unto death.

...the old law covenant is passing away..as our old man[corruptible image]...  what the law could not make perfect[our flesh]

  the SPIRIT[GOD is LOVE} can and does. the law puts to death men without  mercy at two or 3 wittness's.The SPIRIT says'RETURN

  Unto Me,Ye Sons of Men" Moses showed this work of God so we may believe...bringing his hand out from a fold in his garment.....

  it come forth leprous...returning his hand into the fold of his garment[bosom] andbringing it forth again..it was clean.

   signifying the work of God's hands[I have engraven you on my palms]

       Jesus is the true bread from Heaven..not Moses......

   

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:

  Truth !!    AMEN Sheila  ......THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL  :HeartThrob:


Romans 7   17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.


18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do....   proof all mankind is sold under the sin nature  [in Adam / mankind all die , but in Christ all shall be made alive ... 

1 Cornith 15 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.

22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him....

  Romans 8    :HeartThrob:  Thanking the LORD JESUS CHRIST salvation is of GOD THE FATHER ONLY ..  HE IS THE PROOF SENT by the WISDOM OF GOD   Proverbs 8  This  promise of God in  Jesus  Christs coming .https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+8   

Peter confirms   1 Peter 1 A Living Hope
2chosen by the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy, He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you,...

LOVE never fails   :HeartThrob:

[Universell]

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Revelation 3:22 KJV
http://bible.com/1/rev.3.22.KJV
What about that text ?

[sheila]

well..we can't be a denier of Christ..as the example that Peter showed. Boasting that we will not be scattered[fall away]love does not

boast. be offended that the Christ would be handed over unto wicked men and put to death[contradict the Father's instructions/will unto

  Jesus[cross] or cut  off Malchus ear.[High Priests servant] what He is testing is the LOVE we have for God/Christ and our fellowman.

   the Holy spirit showed the sheet coming down 3 times  and going back upwith the animals on it   so that Peter would not deny

  Christ again as Cornelius was to recieve grace also.  yet, when James came Peter refused to eat with  the gentiles.


        Peter's 'GOLD/LOVE" was tried in the fire. He contradicted Jesus stating the will of the Father and scriptures that the Christ

   would suffer[smite] and the sheep be scattered/fall away.. cut off the right ear....and denied him 3 times.

   no flesh will boast[I will not give my glory  to  another]But our Good Shepherd saw the wold  coming..and laid down His life.


  the sons of thunder ready to call down fire from heaven..knew not what spirit  they were of[LOVE] love keeps no record of the

  offense..Jesus told them to shake the dust off their feet/the people  were still toocarnal[all flesh is dust] to recieve.but

  when they come unto the end of their earth/flesh..they would rise[ in spirit]shake off your dust o'captive daughter[they go  on in

  the error of their way..but I will heal them..look unto me and be saved all ye ends of the earth.


       Jesus keeps us all through the hour of trial=SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN [son of perdition only lost]

   touchstone-GOLD=love,silver=righteousness as free gift given of God

   the desire and fullness of the nations must come[where it was said 'not my people" in the same place it shall be said'ye are the sons

  of the living God"

   some of our servants of the High Priest have had their ear cut off/some are blind/lame/sick,fallen asleep/demon possesed etc

  but I am convinced nothing can seperate  them from the love of God shown in Christ.


   who knows? Maybe He will spit in the dirt[spew out of His mouth] and apply some eye salve..just as He wrote in the dust..when

  the woman caught  in the act of adultery had a mob of self righteous men bent on condemning and stoning her under the law.[Rev2;29

     asleep Rev 3;6 fallen away Rev 2;7 afflicted Rev 2;11 idolatry/fornication Rev 2;17......

   what do ye think? is it lawful He heal/save His wrecked church on the Sabbath? or put it to death?

   PASS OVER>>COME! TAKE LIFE'S WATERS FREE.Have no fear little flock..I have overcome the world.

   

[Patinak]

 :HeartThrob: Sheila, I am so loving your posts these days, I'm glad you're back from your sabbatical!!!!! :HeartThrob:
Pat

[sheila]

TY  :dsunny:  cant use that emoticon without thinking of Micah.....

[eaglesway]

The law contained in statutes and ordinances was/is only a shadow of the new law pronounced by Jesus(a new commandment I give unto you) which is spiritual- the love of Christ flowing out of our innermost being like a fountain of living water by the Spirit.

The glorious liberty of the children of God, "Come, let everyone who thirsts drink freely of the water of life"...and the Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!"