What happens when we die?

[micah7:9]

So, after quickly re reading this thread "What happens when we die?" The answer is? :dontknow:

  Some are abiding in death [world ]    not knowing God at all , Micah , they have never lived if they have not been born again   , They have been dead in sin [1 john 3 ]


You want a simple answer  , and  with God everyone is dealt with differently ....
   What you  you  see as death Micah ?       :dontknow:

Rosered to answer your question would be  :bdh: been asked and answered. I have no intention of :swordfight: with you, I just honestly do not understand your thoughts. Death is the same for humanity. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

 
I wasnt moderating, I was just expressing my opinion and having fun with smilies.... but

This subject has been discussed and debated endlessly for years and nothing has ever changed that I have seen- people just have different opinions on it, and the original poster dropped out of the discussion long ago.

I have seen this on the threads for years, where a newer member asks an honest question not realizing the can of worms they have opened- then the same endless merry-go-round begins, usually with the same people re-posting the same opinions they posted last time it came around.

I think it would be better to just have something like Micah suggested on the Christmas thread.... some reference threads saying...."On this issue there are two(or three or whatever) basic schools of thought and briefly, and they were fully discussed here- with links to threads were it was beaten to death and buried :o).....


Stuff like.....

What happens when we die

Sovereignity/ free will

preterist view versus historical view

triniarianism vs monotheism

Christmas

All these issues and a few more like them crop up from time to time and are never resolved. Thats no surprise, these positions have been divided and entrenched for 500 years.

There are other sites for debating those issues, and to tell the truth I would rather see no discussion at all than have to sit through another discussion on any of them...

Thats just my personal feeling as a member.   :skittles:

[micah7:9]

 :thumbsup: :skittles:

[rosered]

I agree John , it is a dead horse     and  nothing has changed     for  many   years ..

  Only Gods  Spirit  has that right  :dsunny:

:HeartThrob:   

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I understand what you're saying John, and to a point I agree.

Since we're sharing opinions.....here's mine, pertaining to this topic this time around.....maybe GOD is having the newbies ask? If it's His board and I for sure believe He uses it, then isn't it possible He might want to be able to deal with the hearts of people with the least amount of muzzling the oxen as possible, which surely is THIS board? Not many, if any, have the freedom we have without food fights.

I know He used it for me today; I received more corroborating evidence (revelation) on this thread today. My view on this subject in general is that it enhances the subject of UR. UR says He saves all, some parts of scripture prove HOW He does it "legally" after the all the parts have been scattered to the wind (died).

You know that annoying kid that took apart all their toys to see how they were made? You're lookin' at her. (so to speak  :laughing7:) Blessings....

[eaglesway]

Yes, I agree that the Spirit spurs questionings in new believers. I just dont think the kind of cyclical debate that develops from those questions really serves them or the purpose of the site. That is why I think we need an alternate solution, so we can direct them where they can objectively(since all the various positions usually get expressed in these threads) study for themselves without having to re-engage these long repetitive torturous threads.

One thing that makes me pretty sure about that is that without fail I have seen that the asker in the OP nearly always quickly disappears from the thread, leading me to believe that the nature of these arguments is confusing and often gets a little "stinky" (as dead horses usually do lol)- so I dont think it serves them any better than it serves the purpose that the Lord had in leading Gary to establish this site, to promote UR.  :2c:


maybe a category of sticky posts on the main questions that fit the category, like theo ones we all know

Is the devil and entity or a principle

Trinity versus Monotheism

Calvinism versus Arminianism

Preterism versus historical view

etc, etc.

[rosered]

Micah   said ,,

Rosered to answer your question would be  :bdh: been asked and answered. I have no intention of :swordfight: with you, I just honestly do not understand your thoughts. Death is the same for humanity. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

  I just believe sometimes   the Bible/ Word describes death and its not  always   so literal  or to be taken so carnally .

Death has many  facets  in it   when described in the Word  , that  many ,  especially the newbies   in UR ,  have not even considered yet ...


death is just being carnally minded and  wars against the HOLY SPIRIT OF LIFE ... :dsunny:


   :bdh:  The dead horse is some can never ever get past  that  understanding  , it takes the Quickening of the Holy Spirit to help us  see   it ,

  But it will never be  seen when the Spirit is quenched     , by not allowing the Word to be written down and shared when the   Holy Spirit  moves on this forum

Years ago I may not have understood something  , so it  made me go digging  deeper   ,

and would have never   done that if   there was nothing to "spark " that    Light  in me to seek  , knock and    and the Good Lord would open   and answer ..


I know that sometimes  when we think we are helping we are hindering  , and  times hinder when we think we are helping  ..

If the Holy Spirit is  NOT  teaching  nor comforting us  , learning to LOVE  one another with practice in these   things ,   than the head knowledge  just "puffs up "   as you pointed out in a tread , I read the other day John and the blessing was in it to remind me     , and the is the Holy Spirit reminding us of JESUS WORDS  SPOKEN  in the New testament  to lead us and guild us  to ALL TRUTH     ...    and not to keep us in the dark .

  We are    them serving  instruments in Gods divine plan    to let the Light of the gospel Shine   though   that  darkness    and satan comes along for the ride ...

Because  he does his work in the dark   hearts of mankind's stinking  thinking  ,     the pride of mankind

Matt 23 11"But the greatest among you shall be your servant.

12"Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

13"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in....

   That law of the knowledge of good and evil    is where satan's seat   is  , where the judgment without mercy is  known 

The law of Life  is Love  , Jesus  has   proven this with His own WORDS   and how they  tried to trap Him , because He was bringing life to those whom were  as dead men walking  and devouring one another  " full of dead men's bones  ", and they   desired  and  wanted HIM DEAD   for it ....
  Trying to shut  hinder  the  WORD OF LIFE  , stop the ears from hearing what the Spirit is saying .
Just  :2c:

[marie glen]

quote - opening post.. I can never resist a good quiz! :girlheart:

:Chinscratch: does UR require human inherent immortality? (I don't see why..) I think it's possible believers are conscious in death.. but not for the not (yet) saved, as I believe "only He is immortal" therefor no need for any sort of 'hell' or any sort of holding cell.. but they will wake to 'Day' of Judgment/Atonement. (Being 2 ages, the resurrection to life and, or the resurrection to judgment/Atonement,imo. (Lev.23 as the patterns of the 2 advents of Christ)
--------------------

Hello:

I am unable to find a direct answer on this forum and it wasn't even posted on tentmaker.org website. I searched everywhere.

1) Stephen spirit was departed before he got stoned to death - he saw the gate of heaven being opened. This completely negate soul-sleep.

:Chinscratch: It was a vision? which there is other accounts of occurring to others who did not die afterwards?

2) During the Old Testament, most of the spirit of both unbelievers and believers were imprisoned (aka death).

It was the place where all go.. Jacob said he would go to sheol grieving.. Job or Jacob, I can never remember which, asked God to hide him in sheol.. and Ecclesiastes 9:10 says to do all which you can now because in sheol there is neither thought nor doing. And Psalm 30, describes sheol as "can the dust praise You?" Isaiah 14 says it is where worms are the bed and blanket..

But I think believers are softly sleeping in His arms (and heart) awaiting His voice, which "all in the tombs will hear". It was a deception in the very early church, of a certain sect to say the resurrection had occurred.. Is that in 1 Timothy? :dontknow:

3) Moses and Elijah spoke with the Lord at mount transfiguration. If spirit is not conscious and yet Moses and Elijah spoke with the lord at that time. 

:dontknow: I do know the scripture says "He alone is immortal.." I've heard the theory they came into time from the eternal kingdom.. or that the disciples only thought it was Moses and Elijah.. Elijah of course did not die but was taken up in a heavenly chariot.. And Enoch, "God took him"..

4) After Christ died, all of the spirit in the prison were opened, old-testament saints and sinners alike (resurrection?).

Actually it doesn't say all.. but some.. and it doesn't say they continued alive.. that's the only note of it in all history

Let me get this straight: when I die, my spirit (conscious) will depart and be with the lord determining whether I will participate in the 1st or 2nd resurrection. Meanwhile, my body will remain in the grave sleeping lifeless remembering nothing. This happened to Stephen.

- Seventh-Day Adventist upholds Soul-Sleep and has been debunked numerous of time.
- Mormon and JW are very similar to SDA.
- Baptist upholds the view of hell and has been debunked by several well known author such as tentmaker.org or universal salvationist.

Direct answer please, no vague answer otherwise wouldn't that make God the author of confusion if the Bible is so difficult to comprehend?

EDIT: here are some scriptural evidence:

Scripture assures believers of their souls' destiny at death:

Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord—for we walk by faith, not by sight—we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:6–8, emphasis added)

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. (Philippians 1:21–24)

I agree it makes no sense that "resurrection" means only of the body. ..When I die, I expect the next thing I know I'll be with the Lord.. I believe all are resurrected into an age.. believers "at His return" to a "resurrection of life" and that "the rest of the dead live not again until after the thousand years" but rise to a "resurrection of Judgment"/discernment/'Day`of Atonement"/"Great 'Day' of Forgiveness as the CEV says it. :gsmile:

And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit." Having said this, He breathed His last. (Luke 23:46)

So when Jesus died his body became lifeless, remembers nothing. But according to Luke 23:46 - his spirit went back to his father, consciously. Baptist preachers said he went to hell for 3 days and 3 nights - nowhere taught in the scripture.

The stoning of Stephen (Acts 7:54–59).
The transfiguration (Matthew 17:1–8; Mark 9:1–8; Luke 9:28–36) - represented as having bodies.
Rachel's soul departing when she died (Genesis 35:18).

18And with her last breath— for she was dying— she named him Ben-oni. But his father called him Benjamin. 19So Rachel died and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem

Putting death to the flesh (1 Peter 3:18).

"Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit,"

"death could not hold Him" Acts 2:24

Spiritual body after death (2 Corinthians 5:1–5).

"5 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee."

1 Corinthians 15:
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and, the dead, will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then, shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

1 Thessalonians 4:
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

John 5:28 - "Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves, will hear His voice, 29 and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

Redemption of our spiritual bodies (Romans 8:23-24).

23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly
- waiting for - the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees

(John 5:28-29). Resurrection of life and Resurrection of damnation.

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice 29and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment

Unbelievers and believers alike will be raised (Acts 24:15)

Absolutely! If some are lost why raise them?!

"I have hope (Greek, expectation!) in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust."

Two more passages bear further discussion. First, John 11:23–27:

Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."

Notice Jesus corrected Martha's belief that her brother would only "live" in the resurrection. In contrast, Jesus revealed that believers will live even if they die, and in fact, they will never die in the way that our bodies do.

"will live even if he dies" - we have to take into account all pertaining verses.. so if we keep reading year after year.. i believe all untruth will fade away from our understanding..

Luke 23:42–43. Instead of, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise," they argue Jesus really said, "Truly I say to you today, - you shall be with Me in Paradise." But Scripture includes no other instance of Jesus saying, "I say to you today." This adds to the likelihood that, as every English translation indicates, Jesus was emphasizing that today was the time He and the thief would be together in paradise. And even Jesus's statement, "Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit," points to His being spiritually in God's presence immediately upon death.

Jesus told Mary on the 3rd day after His death and after He rose, that He had nit yet ascended to the Father..

Samuel was angry because his sleep had been disturbed. However, sleep is not mentioned in the passage.the text only says, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" (1 Samuel 28:15). Further, as Thomas Constable noted, "This passage does not say that the witch brought up Samuel from the dead. God revealed Samuel to Saul."

For Christians, death means we will finally, immediately be face-to-face with our Father?

I see this as possible but not for the not (yet) saved.. as I believe "He alone is immortal" and thus no need for a 'hell' of any sort!
    :Peace2: "gsmile"

Thanks! Grace to you all!

     :girlheart: :friendstu: Great study!

[eaglesway]

"sheol" comes from the hebrew word "sa'al" which means "ask". The root concept is "unknown"(thats why we "ask").  Most internet defintions are "conjecture" as are many dictionary definitions, based on Greek thought and historic translations like "hades"(Gr.); "inferno"(Latin); "hell"(norse) which all had nothing to do with any true etymology but were implanted because of their mythological relationships to the abode of the dead in the underworld in those mythological cosmologies.

The Brown Driver Briggs Lexicon sorts all these and basically says that there is no accepted absolute etymological root connection to these translations and that they are conjecture.

The word "unkown" or "ask" became connected with the grave because no one knows what is on the other side of this life.... and that is the reason(imo) why there is no sound systematic theological answer to what happens when we die that doesnt involve ignoring some part of scripture. Paul says we "sleep", the Ecclesiastes says the "dead know nothing" and even tho Ecclesiastes is a book of metaphors, poetry and analogies, people have build a "rock solid" theology about death from that. The truth(imo) is that no one knows and all attempts to build a construct on these staements are just the arrogance of man, who cant stand saying, "I am not sure" or"there are some scriptures that make me think this may be true" or "there are some scriptures that make me think that might be true" when really, "Well, I see through a glass darkly but I think this" is th most honest answer available.

I dont believe anyone has it "right", or "down pat" because we cant see it yet and God ain't giving it out in handbook form to anyone.  :2c:

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: Amen, yet we can know that "He alone is immortal".. 

[rosered]

 

  I dont know , it seems to me   we have more knowledge increased than ever before ,   and know things that   just the very generations  before us were , just 300  years ago , were  hidden   and still mysteries  ,  Like the U.S.   was not a  nation yet   till July 4, 1776 , now look at the  advancements of technology ,   people have gone and come back to life and got the glimpse  , such as Paul did  way back than to describe    things  of God never known to mankind .
  How long ago was it there was no bibles  to read   just by word of mouth ?    just the sacred scripts  given  from the mouth of prophets   to share with the chosen few .

  Now we have more bibles and translations than  ever   and yet , the WORD OF GOD   says   ,  its not  a famine   for the WORD OF GOD  that is   going to be the  problem , it is the famine for ''hearing ''   the Word of God ...Amos 8:11-12


or to me it is ,  Hearing what the Holy Spirit is saying . 

Because the  3 things   that  Paul gives as  most important   things to posses  is faith , hope and love
  and Jesus    describes    this in His testimony /witness 
When I return will I find faith on the earth ?
  and hope   is not hope    if we cannot keep the faith works of the Holy Spirit  alive in us !

  and the love  , well because we see so much iniquity abounding all the more  , the love is  lacking  as the outward appearances  of seeing  things and yet  it is the unseen     that is working  everything to the glory of God  yet to be known  to all His creation  .

    Jesus Christ  gave us hope eternal by the  Holy Spirits   works of faith for Loves sake


Romans 4:18
Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as he had been told, "So shall your offspring be."

Romans 8:20
For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope  21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time.

23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all.

Who hopes for what he can already see?


25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently

.26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness.


For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words.

27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

2 Corinthians 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

2 Corinthians 5:7
For we walk by faith, not by sight.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of our hope of salvation.

Titus 3:7
so that, having been justified by His grace, we would become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.


If we are looking   like the pharisees  said they see  , their sin remains ,    Faith is really what Jesus was trying to convey

  it is not seen but heard by the Spirit  and felt  and known by   the love of God in the heart ....   to me  as I can tell .

[marie glen]

Absolutely! For one thing, the way the world is, it seems kind of crazy to believe one day it will be a perfect paradise.. :dsunny: :friendstu:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: For my  :2c:.....at death we have conscious knowledge that the soul and spirit of man are divided asunder, like a woman and man divorced, which is what happened in the garden. The soul stays trapped temporarily in whatever "she" did not overcome while still in the body, until the time appointed of the Lord for her visitation (Him going after the "one"), whereas the spirit returns to the one that sent it. The first resurrection is the reunion of soul and spirit, in Him. Paul spoke of a superior resurrection, ie. one while still in the body, where mortality is swallowed up of immortality, which is the promised to the overcomer in this life. Our soul is like a womb and she reproduces whatever seed is "planted" in her. This is what the parable is referring to regarding someone planting seed in a field while he was asleep. Adam was put to sleep but you cannot find where He ever woke him up until we read, "Arise and shine, for thy light is come", which is a reference to He that died so we might live. Matt. 13 shows how these seeds, these tares are dealt with in the end of OUR world, our mortal body with it's soul, the field that has been planted in. It is the bad seeds, the tares that are cast into the fire.

I don't expect anyone to believe me, but He took me with Him in Spirit and I felt "myself" pass through the floor, then down through the earth until He reached one of His and set her free to ascend. I had 5 witnesses to what was happening and they were praying and made aware by Him of what was happening and what she needed to be delivered from, as it happened, to set her soul free. I knew the person He went after, she was saved according to doctrine and baptized in the Holy Ghost, while still alive. He begins a work in our souls and it is not finished until we are every whit WHOLE again, IN HIM. That IS truly, the good news! Blessings to all....

[sheila]

 :2c: what God has joined togather let no man[of sin]put asunder.Jesus asks..where is your Mother's certificate of divorcement?and

calls her back toHim.

especially considering nothing can separate us from the Loveof God.Unto the woman caught in the very act of adultery..He said,neither

do I condemn thee.

  however,..there is another '[spirit]man' the man of 'sin 'prince of 'this' world...he hates the harlot/whore..exposes her nakedness/shame

instead of covering it in love

[sheila]

 :2c: Eccl3;21 who knows if the spirit of man rises UP...and if the spirit of the 'beast' goes down into the earth?

   when an animals flesh dies....fleas/lice etc....jump 'ship' lest they too..go down into the earth..and have a continuous fall..they

may even come up'out of the earth" again..jump some other earthly body to ride. that's the second resurrection..the likeness of

what all satan and his expierence...never to rise to heaven...only awaiting their final judgement/LOF.

   when God calls a man up..that sWORD cuts[circumcises]his spirit from his fleshly vessel..and his spirit rise unto heaven..andis

clothed with the BEST ROBE[celestial/incorruptible/immortal body]His body vesselis lowered into the earth[in the imageof the corrupt

one]a big 'CHANGE"of garments happens. We shall all be changed :2c:

[marie glen]

He is creating a world and reality where ALL will be love, and ALL ruled by Love.. by Him / Love :cloud9: (no room in that for eternal conscious torment for sure! ..and I don't believe in any sort of temporary torture either) :gsmile:

We may differ in our thoughts on how His program (administration) is administered.. rolled out.. proceeds and is fulfilled.. But we are agreed on the end result! :friendstu: :cloud9: :thumbsup:

[sheila]

 :2c:when the 'beast'comes up out of the earth and'jumps' another man..he makes 'the living dead'and spiritual zombies out of them..

they become'out of their [right[eous]mind[Christ's]the hapless man..so jumped..becomes a leg-I-on for these liar/thieving and murdering

wicked spirits..they make such men as'tombs"of the living dead.

[sheila]

 :2c:   John 5;28 the hour is coming,and is now..when all those in the tombs shall hear his voice and come out....those who have

done good[all men are good/righteous] shall rise to live,and those who have done evil[satans wicked works of the devil] will rise[upout of

earth dead body of man they killed] to be condemned/cursed...to LOF 2nd death-eternal death.Why we curse no man,but BLESS ALL


   all men get the free gift of righteousness and eternal life through the works done by God through His son Jesus...that is why our

salvation is not of works.


  Phillipians 2;10  that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow,in heaven and on earth and UNDER THE EARTH.......

yes,the enemy shall bow and acknowledge[confess] him as Lord before their execution in the LOF


all men's flesh died through the devils works.[a taste of death..but not true eternal death[LOF].

and all men's spirits shall live through God's..and through His son's works of SALVATION[mine own right arm,[Jesus] worked salvation.

Death broken up by life eternal.BY THE RESURRECTION..AND BY MY SPIRIT


  satan and evil spirits will remain here[and not rise to heaven] God's curse[condemnation] remains on them..until fire comes down

from heaven and consumes them.  But,ye sons of men are not consumed because of His great love.  IT IS WRITTEN BY THE FINGER

OF GOD...and will NOT return unto Him void.His word and His spirit is victorious over all the power of the enemy.

Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.  When Michael stands up..ALL your people are delivered..not just a few 'special' but ALL.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: @ Sheila........More like when......"His Spirit descended into the earth/heart of man for 3 days, then arose BRINGING MANY WITH HIM"......for a pattern......3rd day and 7th day converging, a double Sabbath happening, a Jubilee also when every man's possessions returned to him, in this case HIS house was restored to Him, because it's ALL about Him.

Actually, it's the fulfillment of the all the feasts in one, just like all the feasts occurred on one day mentioned in OT, because those feasts are patterns/messages of what is to come to men. The fulfillment of the 7th day also means a planned "crop failure", because of Jubilee all those things that were planted in the soul that had him bound are not allowed to come to full harvest. He IS the 7th day, no part darkness, He IS the resurrection, and He raises up all men according to His will and timing, as He is also the Lord of the HARVESTS.  Blessings....

[sheila]

Now,drink of the juice of the pomegranate..of a CR[y[IST-AL[l] glass. Be comforted with  A P[p]LE A assures[pleasure of His will]

and be strengthened with the RAISI[N}G'S [resurrection]OF THE SONS OF GOD[for those faint of love]

they will faint not but renew strength as on the wings of an eagle they shall rise up. :2c:SOS

[Cardinal]

He is creating a world and reality where ALL will be love, and ALL ruled by Love.. by Him / Love :cloud9: (no room in that for eternal conscious torment for sure! ..and I don't believe in any sort of temporary torture either) :gsmile:

We may differ in our thoughts on how His program (administration) is administered.. rolled out.. proceeds and is fulfilled.. But we are agreed on the end result! :friendstu: :cloud9: :thumbsup:

What I am referring to is not a "temporary torture", we are told we will eat of the fruit of our OWN LIPS and be reproved with our OWN wickedness. He doesn't inflict anything, we do it to ourselves, reaping what was sown in our own soul, but indeed we do have a Redeemer of spirit, SOUL, and body and He comes to all in due season.....my  :2c: Blessings....

[Cardinal]

Now,drink of the juice of the pomegranate..of a CR[y[IST-AL[l] glass. Be comforted with  A P[p]LE A assures[pleasure of His will]

and be strengthened with the RAISI[N}G'S [resurrection]OF THE SONS OF GOD[for those faint of love]

they will faint not but renew strength as on the wings of an eagle they shall rise up. :2c:SOS

Amen, fruitfulness of wisdom in the redeemed soul, a soul no longer seeing through a darkened glass = a soul no longer spotted with the sins of the flesh instead of the light/understanding of Christ and a soul no longer wrinkled by the inability to produce a garment that is seamless in doctrine and both sides of the "fold" match up perfectly, ie. line up line, precept upon precept, the sons of God (which is not one but two in union/His covenant, He called THEIR name Adam, as it was so in the beginning). Blessings.....

[sheila]

 :2c:   :thumbsup:  Bex.......when we believe the lie of the devil..that men are put in the LOF..we suffer torment from believing

the lie/plague. Believing the liar[demon]is our own iniquity.TRUTH and Peace from God. Come out of her My people,lest ye receive of

her plagues...such as ET ED,LOF/HELLFIRE,HADES

  Passing -OVER from death to LIFE=OVERCOMING ALL OF THE POWER OF THE WICKED ONE TO DECIEVE.  Taking no pleasure in the lie

but rejoicing in the truth.  The Holy Spirit leads into ALL truth..and the truth sets free..free of thecurse[LOF] freeof death..freeof the

power of the enemy..

  Our spirits were 'firstborn' in heaven [stars] on the fourth creation day. Allof Father's spirit infants fell to the earth whenHe sowed

[planted] them as trees of righteousness. We know stars rise in the night...and are really su

• ns...and we must be born again into[of]
  
  heaven..the daystar[sun/son]must rise with healing in it's wings.
  
  so we do have3 and seven..but also 4 and 8. :girlheart:

[sheila]

 :2c: the restoration of the soul is like the joy that cometh in the morning[weeping in the night],because a son is born in the world] and a

daystar rising in your heart. :girlheart:

not many believe unto the saving of the soul.

[sheila]

 :2c:Listen..the 'torment'of the LOGOS is the hole in His side......a great volume was written...LO!I come to do your will,of me it is written

certain books,through an evil tribunal..were rejected.Some things ,hard to understand,were twisted to our own destruction.These things

left a 'breach' or' wound' in the Body of Christ's fullness.HOLY..is whole.

the earth[present earth] can not contain all of the books written.I have many things yet to declare unto you..but at present you cannot

bear them.Love doesn't heap up loads impossible to bear.......thus we are not saved by knowledge. Star differs from star in their

constellations...and we all function as part of one body with differing members[feet/eye/arm etc]neither one body member puffed up

over other's..but for edifying of all

I was simply told to read/follow, digest and assimiliate what I was able to...........and share...... :girlheart: