those in Sheol getting what they dished out to others?

[sheila]

 :2c: Matt 13;58 and he did notdo any miracles there because of their lack of faith. prophet without honour. Now,whether He didn't

because  of that..and did not reward their lack of faith[he who has more will be given]or couldn't because of it[personally I think

didn't..not couldn't......] I suppose people may have differing pov's

[CST]

Does the Bible say knowing a demon's name a can assist in expelling it or is that extrabiblical demon lore?

Then it doesn't help in a way to make that statement that it does.

[DavidFord]

Does the Bible say knowing a demon's name a can assist in expelling it or is that extrabiblical demon lore?

Then it doesn't help in a way to make that statement that it does.

In your phrase "it does," I don't know what "it" refers to (the Bible?  knowing what a demon's name is can be helpful in expelling that demon?)
Do you see anything below you consider incorrect?

Praying Medic, _Divine Healing Made Simple_ (2013), 266pp.,173-4:
Steve Harmon shared his personal experiences on his Facebook page and allowed me to publish them here:  ....
I had another situation where the person was having bad lower abdominal pain. I prayed for two hours for healing and nothing worked. I commanded witchcraft, parasite, sickness and tons of other names to leave, but nothing would change. It was 12 midnight and I was tired. I felt bad because I couldn't pray anymore. I laid on the couch and then a word came into my head, "Death." I said, "Death come up." This person said, "It just moved." Then I got another word, "Sorcery." It moved again. All of a sudden I was full of energy and back in the game. I commanded "Death" to come up. I asked death how many demons there were. He said, "Five." I Said, "Name them." He said, "death, sorcery, sickness, word curses, and insomnia." I said to death, "Where do you want to go? The feet of Jesus or the abyss?" He said, "The feet of Jesus." (For some reason, demons choose that option the most.) I said, "I'll send you there if you kick out the four other demons that you are in charge of. If you do that, I'll send you there." The demon agreed. The first four demons came out easy and then I told death to go and the person was completely healed right then.
There were times when Jesus told the demon to leave without getting its name and the demon would go. Then there were times when Jesus would first call out the name of the demon and then it would it go. He would say, "Deaf and dumb spirit, come out," "Unclean spirit," or "Legion." The thing is, with some demons, having its name allows you to assert more of your will over it, breaking its power. But just because you get the name of a demon that doesn't mean it will come out easily every time. It will only come out easily sometimes. Other times it will take longer and in some cases, getting its name won't matter.

[DavidFord]

Matt 13;58 and he did notdo any miracles there because of their lack of faith. prophet without honour. Now,whether He didn't because  of that..and did not reward their lack of faith[he who has more will be given]or couldn't because of it[personally I think didn't..not couldn't......] I suppose people may have differing pov's

Jesus healed those people that were brought to him for healing.  I bet that when Jesus visited his hometown, since on the whole the hometown people didn't believe Jesus could bring healing, few sick people were brought to him for healing.  Hence, Jesus healed only a few there, since only a few were brought to him.

Mark 6 (NIV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+6&version=NIV
1 Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2 When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.
"Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3 Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.
4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home." 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.

Compare:

NIV
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NIV&quicksearch=BROUght+healed&begin=47&end=73
Matthew 4:24 News about him spread all over Syria, and people brought to him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering severe pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed; and he healed them.
Matthew 8:16 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.
Matthew 12:22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see.
Luke 4:40 At sunset, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness, and laying his hands on each one, he healed them.

[marie glen]

I'm always way impressed with the last verses of the very first chapter of Mark. All in one chapter and by end of that fist chapter.. :gsmile:

32 When evening came, after the sun had set, they began bringing to Him all who were ill and those who were demon-possessed. 33 And the whole city had gathered at the door. 34 And He healed many who were ill with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He was not permitting the demons to speak, because they knew who He was.

35 In the early morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house, and went away to a secluded place, and was praying there. 36 Simon and his companions searched for Him; 37 they found Him, and *said to Him, "Everyone is looking for You." 38 He *said to them, "Let us go somewhere else to the towns nearby, so that I may preach there also; for that is what I came for." 39 And He went into their synagogues throughout all Galilee, preaching and casting out the demons.

40 And a leper *came to Jesus, beseeching Him and falling on his knees before Him, and saying, "If You are willing, You can make me clean." 41 Moved with compassion, Jesus stretched out His hand and touched him, and *said to him, "I am willing; be cleansed." 42 Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cleansed. 43 And He sternly warned him and immediately sent him away, 44 and He *said to him, "See that you say nothing to anyone; but go, show yourself to the priest and offer for your cleansing what Moses commanded, as a testimony to them." 45 But he went out and began to proclaim it freely and to spread the news around, to such an extent that Jesus could no longer publicly enter a city, but stayed out in unpopulated areas; and they were coming to Him from everywhere.

[DavidFord]

I'm always way impressed with the last verses of the very first chapter of Mark

let us leave vs. you leave and go before me:  Mk 1:38

claim:  Jesus was informed people needing healing were looking for him, and he replied in Mark 1:38, 'Let us get out of here.'
reality:  The Greek text is too clear-cut in Mark 1:38, while the Aramaic is more ambiguous:  maybe Jesus is saying 'let us move on,' but maybe Jesus is instead saying, 'you go on before me.'  On several occasions Jesus sent his disciples on ahead of him, and this might very well be one such instance.

Mark 1 (NKJV, which was translated from Greek)
37 When they found Him, they said to Him, "Everyone is looking for You."
38 But He said to them, "Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also, because for this purpose I have come forth."
39 And He was preaching in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and casting out demons.

Mark 1 (based on Younan; translated from Aramaic)
32. And in the evening at the setting of the sun, they brought to him all those who were severely diseased and possessed. 33. And all the medintha [city] was assembled at the door. 34. And he healed many who were severely diseased with diverse weaknesses. And he cast out many deewa [demons], and he did not allow the deewa to speak, because they knew him. 35. And in the morning, he arose very early and went to a secluded place, and he was praying there. 36. And Shimon and those with him were looking for him, 37. and when they found him they said to him, "All the people are looking for you." And he said to them,
"Walk into the villages and into the medintha [cities]
that are nearby, for I will preach there also.
For for this (reason) I have come."
39. And he would preach in all their assemblies in all (of) Galeela and cast out shada [demons].

Jesus sending out the 12, messengers, and the 70
Matthew 10
5. Yeshua sent these twelve and commanded them and said,
"By the way of the heathen do not go,
and to the medintha [cities] of the Samaritans do not enter.
But you go, rather, to the sheep that are lost from the house (of) Israel.
7. And when you go, preach and say that the kingdom of heaven is near.
8. Heal the sick and cleanse the lepers and cast out deewa [demons].
Freely you have received,
freely give.

Luke 9:51-52  And it happened that when the days of his journey were fulfilled, he hardened his face to go to Urishlim.  And he sent messengers before his face, and they came (and) entered a village of the Shamaritans in order to prepare for him.

Luke 10:1  After these things, Yeshua appointed seventy from his other talmida [students] and sent them two by two before his face to all regions and medintha [cities] that he was about to go (to).

[CST]

Does the Bible say knowing a demon's name a can assist in expelling it or is that extrabiblical demon lore?

Then it doesn't help in a way to make that statement that it does.

In your phrase "it does," I don't know what "it" refers to (the Bible?  knowing what a demon's name is can be helpful in expelling that demon?)
Do you see anything below you consider incorrect?

Praying Medic, _Divine Healing Made Simple_ (2013), 266pp.,173-4:
Steve Harmon shared his personal experiences on his Facebook page and allowed me to publish them here:  ....
I had another situation where the person was having bad lower abdominal pain. I prayed for two hours for healing and nothing worked. I commanded witchcraft, parasite, sickness and tons of other names to leave, but nothing would change. It was 12 midnight and I was tired. I felt bad because I couldn't pray anymore. I laid on the couch and then a word came into my head, "Death." I said, "Death come up." This person said, "It just moved." Then I got another word, "Sorcery." It moved again. All of a sudden I was full of energy and back in the game. I commanded "Death" to come up. I asked death how many demons there were. He said, "Five." I Said, "Name them." He said, "death, sorcery, sickness, word curses, and insomnia." I said to death, "Where do you want to go? The feet of Jesus or the abyss?" He said, "The feet of Jesus." (For some reason, demons choose that option the most.) I said, "I'll send you there if you kick out the four other demons that you are in charge of. If you do that, I'll send you there." The demon agreed. The first four demons came out easy and then I told death to go and the person was completely healed right then.
There were times when Jesus told the demon to leave without getting its name and the demon would go. Then there were times when Jesus would first call out the name of the demon and then it would it go. He would say, "Deaf and dumb spirit, come out," "Unclean spirit," or "Legion." The thing is, with some demons, having its name allows you to assert more of your will over it, breaking its power. But just because you get the name of a demon that doesn't mean it will come out easily every time. It will only come out easily sometimes. Other times it will take longer and in some cases, getting its name won't matter.

Yes, you recognising anything Steve Harmon says as authoritative.

[GodIsLove]

While I'm still unsure about the nature of evil forces, I think they exist in some capacity, and I think we can invite or expel them with how we live our lives similar to the law of attraction. Whether it's sentient beings or just forces or spirits or what I don't know yet.

However things like this story don't ring true to me.

One: isn't witchcraft and sorcery the same thing?
Two: why does he give the evil spirits a choice in where they go and where is the biblical support that they will go to either place at this time? Mostly Jesus just told them to leave except when legion asked to go into pigs.
Three: you can command parasites to leave?

Maybe he's just more in the know than me, I'll try to keep myself humble, but I'm just confused by the account.

[marie glen]

I tend to think of most things except the bible as fiction, whether in whole or in part.. Sure history's documented.. and science does have some facts.. but even they are subject to man's bent and bias! So as far as truth, for me it's the bible. Some folks may think that's pretty narrow, or ignorant or what not.. but I don't think so.. I just don't care about any of the rest of it.. Extra biblical that is.. Whether visions, or works of fiction.. or accounts of people.. "What is wheat to chaff?" (Hopefully that verse fits! :laughing7: Kind of popped into my head..)
    :Peace2:

[MusicLover123]

His Spirit is to lead us in all truth, and He still does speak to us. Not that it will contradict it, but add to it(note that I don't mean an extra set of Scriptures lol. Mainly as another witness.) It is the glory of kings to search out these matters.  :2c:

[GodIsLove]

His Spirit is to lead us in all truth, and He still does speak to us. Not that it will contradict it, but add to it(note that I don't mean an extra set of Scriptures lol. Mainly as another witness.) It is the glory of kings to search out these matters.  :2c:

Agree that He still speaks to us.

That IMO is why we must test the spirits to see if they are from God.

[DavidFord]

While I'm still unsure about the nature of evil forces, I think they exist in some capacity, and I think we can invite or expel them with how we live our lives similar to the law of attraction. Whether it's sentient beings or just forces or spirits or what I don't know yet.
However things like this story don't ring true to me.
One: isn't witchcraft and sorcery the same thing?
Two: why does he give the evil spirits a choice in where they go and where is the biblical support that they will go to either place at this time? Mostly Jesus just told them to leave except when legion asked to go into pigs.
Three: you can command parasites to leave?
Maybe he's just more in the know than me, I'll try to keep myself humble, but I'm just confused by the account.

1.  Witchcraft and sorcery sure sound the same to me.  One person says witches and sorcerers are different:
Witches vs. Sorcerers: What's the Difference?
https://multoghost.wordpress.com/2015/08/18/witches-vs-sorcerers-whats-the-difference/

2.  I wouldn't give demons I'm expelling a choice.  I'd send them to Jesus, with instructions that they never bother another human ever again.  Perhaps with a difficult-to-expel demon I might have to concede it an option as to where it'd go.  On one occasion, demons begged Jesus not to send them to the abyss:

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=abyss&qs_version=DLNT
Luke 8:31 And they were begging Him that He not command them to go into the abyss.

3.  I'd think you can command parasites to leave, just as you can command cancer to leave.

[DavidFord]

Agree that He still speaks to us.
That IMO is why we must test the spirits to see if they are from God.

1 John 4 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John+4&version=KJV
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit,
but try the spirits whether they are of God:
because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God:
Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
and this is that spirit of antichrist,
whereof ye have heard that it should come;
and even now already is it in the world.

John 10 (KJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+10&version=KJV
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

[DavidFord]

Yes, you recognising anything Steve Harmon says as authoritative.

One woman opened herself up to interaction with a sexual demon through an ungodly use of her imagination.

https://www.psychforums.com/delusional-disorder/topic52533.html
I am going to have an exorcism this week. Four years ago I began to have episodes of what can only be described as sex with a spirit.  ....

[DavidFord]

Immortality: The Drew Lecture Delivered October 11, 1912
by Robert Henry Charles
https://archive.org/details/immortalitydrew00chargoog/page/n6
By adopting this conclusion we bring once more eschatology into harmony with Christian theology.

[CST]

While I'm still unsure about the nature of evil forces, I think they exist in some capacity, and I think we can invite or expel them with how we live our lives similar to the law of attraction. Whether it's sentient beings or just forces or spirits or what I don't know yet.

However things like this story don't ring true to me.

One: isn't witchcraft and sorcery the same thing?
Two: why does he give the evil spirits a choice in where they go and where is the biblical support that they will go to either place at this time? Mostly Jesus just told them to leave except when legion asked to go into pigs.
Three: you can command parasites to leave?

Maybe he's just more in the know than me, I'll try to keep myself humble, but I'm just confused by the account.

As I said I lean much more towards non-conscious evil agency that conscious evil being:

1. I believe in witchcraft and sorcery least. Sometimes these people get surprises. Usually they are con artists and thieves.
2. One of my biggest objections, what happens to demons which aren't in possession of someone.
3. I think command probably isn't literal, that's my point

While I'm still unsure about the nature of evil forces, I think they exist in some capacity, and I think we can invite or expel them with how we live our lives similar to the law of attraction. Whether it's sentient beings or just forces or spirits or what I don't know yet.
However things like this story don't ring true to me.
One: isn't witchcraft and sorcery the same thing?
Two: why does he give the evil spirits a choice in where they go and where is the biblical support that they will go to either place at this time? Mostly Jesus just told them to leave except when legion asked to go into pigs.
Three: you can command parasites to leave?
Maybe he's just more in the know than me, I'll try to keep myself humble, but I'm just confused by the account.

2.  I wouldn't give demons I'm expelling a choice.  I'd send them to Jesus, with instructions that they never bother another human ever again.  Perhaps with a difficult-to-expel demon I might have to concede it an option as to where it'd go.  On one occasion, demons begged Jesus not to send them to the abyss:

Ah, but the Bible suggests it's not that easy.

Yes, you recognising anything Steve Harmon says as authoritative.

One woman opened herself up to interaction with a sexual demon through an ungodly use of her imagination.

https://www.psychforums.com/delusional-disorder/topic52533.html
I am going to have an exorcism this week. Four years ago I began to have episodes of what can only be described as sex with a spirit.  ....

Ooh, an incubus!  :laugh:

[marie glen]

Immortality: The Drew Lecture Delivered October 11, 1912
by Robert Henry Charles
https://archive.org/details/immortalitydrew00chargoog/page/n6

Amen God became realized as “Father” .. a big difference. I believe Rev chapter 20 explains the resurrection at Jesus’ return, and the one “1000 years later of all the rest”.

I believe “dead” - “nekros” is “to lack life”. I believe Judgment Day / “the Judgment” occurs after the resurrection(s) [of all of course,Rev.20]. And it’s my belief Judgment Day equates to Day Of Atonement. doa for the doa? / day of atonement for those who rise, initially, “still in their sins”?

And because of the spacing of the Autumn holy days (Lev.23) I believe Day of Judgment/Atonement will last 500 years. ..Give or take a little to account for the uprising against Jerusalem of the Millennium, just before the 2nd resurrection. Oh dear I was trying to keep this very uncomplicated, but I’m somewhat compulsive I guess.

[DavidFord]

Ah, but the Bible suggests it's not that easy.

Which if any of the demon-expellings below seem "not that easy" to you?

spirit of infirmity behind a bent-over posture
Luke 13 (from Aramaic, based on Younan of peshi+ta.org, dukhrana.com)
Now while Yeshua [Jesus] taught on the Shabbata [Sabbath] in one of the assemblies, 11. there was there a woman who had a rukha [spirit] of infirmity eighteen years. And she was bent down and she was not able to straighten herself at all. 12. And Yeshua saw her and called her and said to her,
"Woman, you are freed from your infirmity."
13. And he placed his hand on her, and she straightened herself immediately and glorified Allaha [God].

daughter badly bothered by a demon (cf. Mt 15:21+)
Mark 7
25. For immediately a certain woman whose daughter had an unclean rukha [spirit] heard about him, and she came (and) fell before his feet. 26. Now that woman was kanapta [a heathen/ foreigner] from Phoenicia in Syria, and was entreating him to cast out the shada [demon] from her daughter.  27. And Yeshua said to her,
"First allow the children to be satisfied,
for it is not right to take the bread of the children
and throw it to the dogs."
28. But she answered and said to him, "Yes Mari [my lord, i.e. sir], even the dogs eat from under the tables the crumbs of the children."
29. Yeshua said to her,
"Because of this word (you said), go.
The shada [demon] has gone out from your daughter."
30. And she went to her house and found her daughter lying on a pallet, and shadah [her shada] was gone from her.

son with a spirit of muteness that also prompted hitting the ground, violent shaking, teeth-gnashing, foaming at the mouth, paralysis, and suicide attempts
Mark 9
17. And one from the crowd answered and said, "Malapna [Teacher], I brought my son to you because he has a rukha [spirit] that does not speak. 18. And whenever it overtakes him, it knocks him down and he foams (at the mouth) and gnashes his teeth and becomes paralyzed. And I asked your talmida [students/ disciples] to cast him out, and they were not able." 19. Yeshua answered and said to him,
"Oh generation that is not mahaymina [faithful]!
How long must I remain with you,
and how long must I endure you?
Bring him to me."
20. And they brought him to him and when the rukha [spirit] saw him, it knocked him down at once, and he fell on the ground and was violently shaken and he foamed (at the mouth). 21. And Yeshua asked his father,
"How long has it been since he has been this way?"
He said to him, "Since his youth, 22. and many times it has cast him into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But whatever you are able (to do), have compassion on me and help me!" 23. Yeshua said to him,
"If you are able to believe,
anything is possible to be,
for him who believes."
24. And at once the abba [father] of the boy cried out while mourning and said, "I believe, Mari [my lord, i.e. sir]. Help the lack of my faith!" 25. And when the people that saw Yeshua ran and gathered around him, he rebuked that unclean rukha [spirit] and said to him,
"Dumb rukha [spirit] that does not speak,
I command that you come out from him,
and never enter him again!"
26. And that shada [demon] cried out greatly, and he bruised him and came out. And he was like a dead man so that many said that, "He is dead!" 27. But Yeshua took him by his hand and raised him.

Paul expels a spirit of divination from a girl
Acts 16
16. And it happened that while we were going to the house of prayer, a certain maiden met up with us who had a rukha [spirit] of divination, and she made her masters much commerce by the divination that she was divining. 17. And she was following after Polous and after us, and she was crying out and said, "These men are the servants of Him-- of Allaha the exalted! And they preach to you the path of life!" 18. And thus she was doing many days. And Polous was angered and said to her-- to that rukha-- "I command you to depart from her in the name of Yeshua the Meshikha!"
And at that moment it departed. 19. And when her lords saw that the expectation of their trade had departed from her, they seized Polous and Shila and led them (and) brought them to the public square.

[DavidFord]

As I said I lean much more towards non-conscious evil agency that conscious evil being:
1. I believe in witchcraft and sorcery least. Sometimes these people get surprises. Usually they are con artists and thieves.
2. One of my biggest objections, what happens to demons which aren't in possession of someone.
3. I think command probably isn't literal, that's my point

"what happens to demons which aren't in possession of someone"

Mt 12 (from Aramaic, based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
43-45. Now when an unclean rukha [spirit] goes out from a man,
it wanders in places that have no water in them,
and seeks rest, but does not find (it).
Then it says, 'I will return to my house from where I came out.'
And it comes (and) finds that it is empty and swept and orderly.
Then it will go (and) lead seven other rukha with it who are worse than it,
and they will enter and dwell in it,
and the end of the man will be worse than his beginning.
Like this, to this evil generation (it) will be."

"command probably isn't literal"

Mark 1 (from Aramaic)
23. And there was a man in their assembly in whom was an unclean rukha [spirit], and he cried out 24. and said, "What have we to do with you, Yeshua the Nasraya? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are. You are the Holy One of Allaha!" And Yeshua rebuked him and said,
"Shut your mouth,
and come out from him!"
25. And the unclean rukha threw him down and cried out in a loud voice and came out of him. 27. And all of them were astonished and were asking each other and saying that, "What is this, and what is this new teaching? For with shultana [authority] he even commands unclean rukha, and they obey him!"

[CST]

As I said I lean much more towards non-conscious evil agency that conscious evil being:
1. I believe in witchcraft and sorcery least. Sometimes these people get surprises. Usually they are con artists and thieves.
2. One of my biggest objections, what happens to demons which aren't in possession of someone.
3. I think command probably isn't literal, that's my point

"what happens to demons which aren't in possession of someone"

Mt 12 (from Aramaic, based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
43-45. Now when an unclean rukha [spirit] goes out from a man,
it wanders in places that have no water in them,
and seeks rest, but does not find (it).
Then it says, 'I will return to my house from where I came out.'
And it comes (and) finds that it is empty and swept and orderly.
Then it will go (and) lead seven other rukha with it who are worse than it,
and they will enter and dwell in it,
and the end of the man will be worse than his beginning.
Like this, to this evil generation (it) will be."

:laugh: You quote that and yet utterly fail to see my point. Well at least you've saved me some time. That passage and it's partner at Luke 11 is the only time the Bible actually gives any indication of the operation and behaviour of demons and yet it is so obviously a parable and yet you read it and quote it and yet you still can't see it.

Obviously a 'person' (here the demon's former home) is not literally a house in any proper sense. What sort of 'rest' is the demon meant to be seeking. I'd rather it found rest if it stopped bothering us. I suspect we're meant to read that demons are fundamentally restless beings. They exist to torment humans and don't really want rest in the sense we understand it.

So the demon doesn't find rest so it goes back, apparently without difficulty, to the person that was formerly possessed but had been, so we imagine, been exorcised. They seem to have been demon free for some time and the 'house' which here appears to represent inside the person is not, as you might expect, a filthy, rubbish-strewn ruin of the type likely to attract rats (demons might be comparable to rats in our imagination), no it's a clean, swept and tidy place that suggest the person has put some effort in it and tried to keep themselves clear of sin.

And the demon likes this and it goes off and finds, again without apparent difficultly, seven more demons that it would seem also have nowhere to be. And they come back and they enter this apparently clean and well kept house and "the end of the man will be worse than the beginning." Not at all what you would expect when your listening to stories about sinful women having sex with incubi.

But what I wanted to make clear that what you said " I wouldn't give demons I'm expelling a choice.  I'd send them to Jesus, with instructions that they never bother another human ever again." isn't how it works. I'm sure everyone who was expelling demons would do this if they could but clearly according to this parable, and it is a parable, demons can't be sent away like that. They go away but then later they're able to come back again.

But, as I said, this is a parable. Jesus is addressing the scribes and Pharisees who have just falsely accused Him of have a demon He hasn't got. The scribes and Pharisees would seem to be the clean and empty houses the demons like so much. This would strongly suggest that it is self-righteousness the demons are attracted to and not particularly sinful ones, who, let's be honest are probably separated from God enough already.

[DavidFord]

1. I believe in witchcraft and sorcery least. Sometimes these people get surprises. Usually they are con artists and thieves.

Do you think the account below is bogus?
Do you think that witch doctor:  was a con artist?  got lucky?

Derek Prince, _Blessing or Curse: You Can Choose_ (2006), 303pp. On 156-7:
The following account comes from a missionary friend of mine who has lived his whole life in Zambia, in central Africa, and is intimately acquainted with the languages and the customs of the people there.
"At a General Conference of Christians in our rural district of Zambia, the Holy Spirit had spoken a strong prophetic word calling for holiness in the Church. Many Christians were convicted of sin in their lives and had truly repented, confessing their sin and pleading for God's forgiveness. After the service, an elder from one of our remote village churches came to the preacher in tears, trembling all over, confessing to the terrible sin of murder through witchcraft. The elder told him that for some years he had been fighting with his fellow elder in the church who was senior to him. The situation had gotten so bad that he had decided to punish him by going to a local witch doctor and paying him to curse this other elder. The witch doctor had been happy to do so, especially as he knew that these men were supposed to be Christians. He asked for a large down payment, and then told the man to come back the following day.

When he returned, the elder found the witch doctor sitting under a tree with a mirror in his hand and a bowl of witchcraft medicine on the ground before him. The witch doctor then proceeded to sponge the medicine all over the mirror, and asked the elder to look carefully at the mirror and tell him what he could see. Startled, the elder saw the face of his fellow elder quite clearly. Whereupon the witch doctor took a razor blade and cut across the throat of the face reflected in the mirror. Immediately the mirror was covered in blood. The elder cried out, "You have killed him! I only asked you to curse him." The witch doctor replied with a chuckle, "I thought I would do the job properly whilst I was at it!" The elder hurried home. To his horror he learned that his fellow elder was indeed dead, having died mysteriously of a sudden hemorrhage. The elder was terrified of the consequences of his action, so he had kept quiet about it. Now the Holy Spirit had powerfully convicted him of his sin.
Fortunately for him, "where sin abounded, grace did much more abound." Through confession, repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, the man was not only brought to forgiveness and peace with God, but to the reality of the new birth."

[DavidFord]

Ooh, an incubus!  :laugh:

Three women in a family reported being sexually molested by a demon.  And they were _not_ laughing.

_Deliver Us from Evil: A New York City Cop Investigates the Supernatural_ by Ralph Sarchie and Lisa Collier Cool (2001), 356pp., 122-125.
https://www.amazon.com/Deliver-Us-Evil-Investigates-Supernatural/dp/1250059496/

[CST]

1. I believe in witchcraft and sorcery least. Sometimes these people get surprises. Usually they are con artists and thieves.

Do you think the account below is bogus?
Do you think that witch doctor:  was a con artist?  got lucky?

Derek Prince, _Blessing or Curse: You Can Choose_ (2006), 303pp. On 156-7:
The following account comes from a missionary friend of mine who has lived his whole life in Zambia, in central Africa, and is intimately acquainted with the languages and the customs of the people there.
"At a General Conference of Christians in our rural district of Zambia, the Holy Spirit had spoken a strong prophetic word calling for holiness in the Church. Many Christians were convicted of sin in their lives and had truly repented, confessing their sin and pleading for God's forgiveness. After the service, an elder from one of our remote village churches came to the preacher in tears, trembling all over, confessing to the terrible sin of murder through witchcraft. The elder told him that for some years he had been fighting with his fellow elder in the church who was senior to him. The situation had gotten so bad that he had decided to punish him by going to a local witch doctor and paying him to curse this other elder. The witch doctor had been happy to do so, especially as he knew that these men were supposed to be Christians. He asked for a large down payment, and then told the man to come back the following day.

When he returned, the elder found the witch doctor sitting under a tree with a mirror in his hand and a bowl of witchcraft medicine on the ground before him. The witch doctor then proceeded to sponge the medicine all over the mirror, and asked the elder to look carefully at the mirror and tell him what he could see. Startled, the elder saw the face of his fellow elder quite clearly. Whereupon the witch doctor took a razor blade and cut across the throat of the face reflected in the mirror. Immediately the mirror was covered in blood. The elder cried out, "You have killed him! I only asked you to curse him." The witch doctor replied with a chuckle, "I thought I would do the job properly whilst I was at it!" The elder hurried home. To his horror he learned that his fellow elder was indeed dead, having died mysteriously of a sudden hemorrhage. The elder was terrified of the consequences of his action, so he had kept quiet about it. Now the Holy Spirit had powerfully convicted him of his sin.
Fortunately for him, "where sin abounded, grace did much more abound." Through confession, repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, the man was not only brought to forgiveness and peace with God, but to the reality of the new birth."

Neither I think Derek Prince is either deceived or deceiving.

Ooh, an incubus!  :laugh:

Three women in a family reported being sexually molested by a demon.  And they were _not_ laughing.

_Deliver Us from Evil: A New York City Cop Investigates the Supernatural_ by Ralph Sarchie and Lisa Collier Cool (2001), 356pp., 122-125.
https://www.amazon.com/Deliver-Us-Evil-Investigates-Supernatural/dp/1250059496/

I'm laughing because the idea of incubi and succubi are quite obviously ridiculous and not remotely supported by the Bible. If a demon can possess someone then having sex with them, apparently by consent as your reports seem to to be describing, it is small fry for their purposes..

[DavidFord]

Neither I think Derek Prince is either deceived or deceiving.

Do you think Jindal "is either deceived or deceiving"?

Bobby Jindal, "Beating a Demon: Physical Dimensions of Spiritual Warfare" _New Oxford Review_ (Dec 1994)
http://www.demon-slayer.org/the-bobby-jindal-exorcism-full-text/
In a voice I had never heard before or since, Su­san accused me: "Bobby, you cannot even love Susan."  Before I even noticed the sound of her voice, I thought it funny that Susan would refer to herself in the third person.  ....  Knowing that I was doing Susan no good, I quickly retreated to the opposite side of the room.  Susan proceeded to denounce every individual in the room, often citing very private and confidential information she could not possibly have known on her own.  It was information capable of hurting individuals — attacking people, as she did, by revealing their hidden feelings, fears, and worries.

[CST]

If he believes in demons, yes and so may Susan be. It easy to say, information she couldn't possibly have known on her own but that's not entirely provable. Fraudulent mediums (or mediums as they're usually called) have means of extracting the information they think you want to hear and you imagine there's no way you could possibly have known it when they actually tricked you into giving it to them. There are many possible explanations for this that doesn't mean a demon was involved but Susan was probably in contact with some form of evil.