Now, to me, that would be an oxymoron.. (of course there is no 'hell', just the mistranslation)..
But the saying "no unbelievers in hell" - I figure "believing" is what gets one's name written in the book of life!
I know, there's the verse which says, "even the demons believe", which to me goes along the lines of what James wrote "works show/prove faith" (and I think change is a part of works, not just good deeds, etc.).
Even the demons for whom "the lake of fire" (of Revelation 20) "was prepared" once there may (I believe will) finally begin to repent and "believe" God's way is actually the best (only) way after all..
But reading this saying today, this is how it struck me, as an oxymoron..
Amen...the L.of Fire is the 2nd death and death shall be abolished ..AND it was made for devils and satan so look like they will be freed from there, ultimately = they will finally repent n stand with the redeemed n worship God in truth. :banana: :dsunny:
Quote from: marie glen on February 22, 2018, 10:38:11 PM
Now, to me, that would be an oxymoron.. (of course there is no 'hell', just the mistranslation)..
There is a hell. It's no mistranslation.
It's just that satan changed the meaning.
I said this many times before....
A language lives.
The mouse you are holding in your hand right now, is called a mouse.
But if for whatever reason people start calling it a cat, it will eventually end up as the secondary name of that pointing device. Later it gets upgraded to primary and later mouse may be removed from all except the unabridged dictionaries.
Hell simply means unseen. It's not even a English word (English is a quite recent language).
Things work a bit like this.
Hell is a perfect translation for what God wanted us to know centuries ago.
But then preachers started to preach time after time: Hell is indeed the unseen, and I tell you what, there is also torture in that place.
Slowly the torture became part of the meaning of the word.
So right now, today, hell with torture, devils and fire is the only correct understanding of the word. Simply because that's the meaning of the word.
Now....
But not back then.
That's a major problem with word studies. You can buy the most expensive secular dictionaries you want. Hell is a place of fire. Not that the atheist translators even believe in hell, it's just what the word means.
Same we see with torment (tormented with fire and brimstone)
It means tortured (on a rack) that's a fact.
Another fact is that it had another meaning until 288 AD.
We need to totally remove every meaning of a word that dates after the verse was written.
Possibly even the older word meanings at that time.
But that's a little tricky.
Jesus used words that that had a certain primary meaning during His time. We certainly shouldn't use meanings that came after that.
But should we use the primary meaning from Jesus' time?
If it's a totally new teaching, likely yes.
But when Jesus for example quoted Isaiah then we must use the dictionary of Isaiah's time.
The reason is simple.
Isaiah was a inspired man. The HS did not lie to him or trick him by using words Isaiah knew, but the HS meant the 2018 meaning of that word.
Likewise Jesus' use of Isaiah's words must be understood with the dictionary of Isaiah's time. Not a modernized meaning Jesus knew.
If we would not do that then the inspired words of Jesus and Isaiah will conflict. Jesus words will never override a single word from an ancient prophet because they both tapped from the very same source of wisdom. The HS.
And that makes Bible study so impossible. There are very few 2000BC dictionaries for sale at the moment... :laugh:
QuoteWhy was Hell spelled Hel in parts of the KJV-1611 Bible?
Did you know that the secular meaning behind the word 'hell,' just as the original meaning of 'hades' simply meant hidden, out of sight? Yep, in the ancient German, when two young folks went to a dark place to hide for some necking, they went to hel, they hid somewhere. Our English words helmut, hall, hole, and heel, all stem from the German word hele. The religious meaning of the word Hell came from Germany too -- actually it came from Teutonic mythology.
Hele was a goddess of the underworld in ancient folklore.
Hel is the name of the Norse underworld, and its ruler. Hel/Hela, in Norse mythology, was the hideous daughter of the Giant Loki, banished to the netherworld, Helheim (literally, 'house of Hel'), world of the dead, by the Chief God, Odin. The distinctive looking Goddess, whose skin is black on one side, rules over the dead until Ragnarok and the coming birth of the new world.
Hel is sister of Fenris, the wolf, and Jormungand, the world-serpent.
The name for the Christian world of torment "Hell" is derived from Hela's abode. Unlike the Christian version, however, Hel's realm was home to all who did not die in battle - miserable as it was, good behavior wasn't any more likely to get one a reprieve. Helheim's entrance works only in one direction- once one has entered, even a God, one cannot leave - like the Greek Hades, Helheim is guarded by a monstrous hound, and encircled by an impassable river. According to legend, the dead will remain in Hel's kingdom until the last days of Ragnarok.
Where did you get that bottom quote from WW?
Here (http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=hel%20with%201%20l.htm) but I think that doesn't count :laugh:
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 23, 2018, 07:57:03 AM
And that makes Bible study so impossible.
Yet we have all learned these very same things..! How very capable is our God!
Also good to remember is "sheol" where "all meet" and "where there was neither knowing nor device".. When believers were outlawed from having the scripture, it wasn't hard for sheol to become accepted as hades (shades, shadows, unseen, after all our loved ones who have died are "gone" / for now :gsmile: ). And then from hades to inferno. :doh: Oy. ...Then mix in all the myths from Babylon to Egypt and their swirling mist throughout the world.. saturating the culture(s)..
But truth, it stands forever. :thumbsup:
Quote
Why was Hell spelled Hel in parts of the KJV-1611 Bible?
Did you know that the secular meaning behind the word 'hell,' just as the original meaning of 'hades' simply meant hidden, out of sight? Yep, in the ancient German, when two young folks went to a dark place to hide for some necking, they went to hel, they hid somewhere. Our English words helmut, hall, hole, and heel, all stem from the German word hele. The religious meaning of the word Hell came from Germany too -- actually it came from Teutonic mythology.
Hele was a goddess of the underworld in ancient folklore.
Hel is the name of the Norse underworld, and its ruler. Hel/Hela, in Norse mythology, was the hideous daughter of the Giant Loki, banished to the netherworld, Helheim (literally, 'house of Hel'), world of the dead, by the Chief God, Odin. The distinctive looking Goddess, whose skin is black on one side, rules over the dead until Ragnarok and the coming birth of the new world.
Hel is sister of Fenris, the wolf, and Jormungand, the world-serpent.
The name for the Christian world of torment "Hell" is derived from Hela's abode. Unlike the Christian version, however, Hel's realm was home to all who did not die in battle - miserable as it was, good behavior wasn't any more likely to get one a reprieve. Helheim's entrance works only in one direction- once one has entered, even a God, one cannot leave - like the Greek Hades, Helheim is guarded by a monstrous hound, and encircled by an impassable river. According to legend, the dead will remain in Hel's kingdom until the last days of Ragnarok.
It's also interesting to me that Satanists and somewhat Scientology(?) teachings have said that there was the ancient dragon 'gods', which sent out the serpent 'gods'. And the serpent in Eden was such a one, bringing freedom and enlightenment to humanity through Eve, who's "eyes would be opened".. It's not hard to see that spirit blended with the fiery rage idea of "hell", to keep folks in line). I am in expectation that UFO buffs and even man's popular theory of evolution (as to origins, the last days false prophet) will absorb / be wed to? those very ideas.. And they are in different shapes in different cultures already.
Interesting how flood stories are found all around the globe too.. Which some like to say Moses plagiarized, but just because one person shares a memory after another one has, doesn't mean they plagiarized the account.. Then there's all those ancient artifacts of a 'mother god' some of the very earliest, a handsize torso of a rather plump lady (expecting?) The root of these being faint 'memories' of Eve "the mother of us all"? (I sometimes wonder if Eve before end of her long life became a large woman? because of those plump artifacts, lol. Sorry, pure fancy, I know.)
But is a rather interesting story how the myths are so shared worldwide, yet in different forms and versions. (From that confusing/changing of the languages at Babel Tower, which separated, but now the world is getting smaller..)
There is much more if you look for it.
In Job Leviathan killed by our God.
In paganism Leviathan exited too. He was an ultra violent supreme god slayed by a good lesser god.
I'm not saying our God is a lesser god, but lets call parallels with a twist.
Egyptian mythology states (that where Moses crossed the sea) the world was created by a fight between two gods. A massive whirlpool. Leviathan again? Anyway it was then when land was created.
In a certain way it confirms the Bible.
Just like the flood stories you mentioned.
Same for the longest day of Joshua. Or the shortest day
Awesome! ..I love history.. and detecting shared hazy memories of biblical events.. Very fascinating!!
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 23, 2018, 07:57:03 AM
Quote from: marie glen on February 22, 2018, 10:38:11 PM
Now, to me, that would be an oxymoron.. (of course there is no 'hell', just the mistranslation)..
There is a hell. It's no mistranslation.
It's just that satan changed the meaning.
I said this many times before....
A language lives.
The mouse you are holding in your hand right now, is called a mouse.
But if for whatever reason people start calling it a cat, it will eventually end up as the secondary name of that pointing device. Later it gets upgraded to primary and later mouse may be removed from all except the unabridged dictionaries.
Hell simply means unseen. It's not even a English word (English is a quite recent language).
Things work a bit like this.
Hell is a perfect translation for what God wanted us to know centuries ago.
But then preachers started to preach time after time: Hell is indeed the unseen, and I tell you what, there is also torture in that place.
Slowly the torture became part of the meaning of the word.
So right now, today, hell with torture, devils and fire is the only correct understanding of the word. Simply because that's the meaning of the word.
Now....
But not back then.
That's a major problem with word studies. You can buy the most expensive secular dictionaries you want. Hell is a place of fire. Not that the atheist translators even believe in hell, it's just what the word means.
Same we see with torment (tormented with fire and brimstone)
It means tortured (on a rack) that's a fact.
Another fact is that it had another meaning until 288 AD.
We need to totally remove every meaning of a word that dates after the verse was written.
Possibly even the older word meanings at that time.
But that's a little tricky.
Jesus used words that that had a certain primary meaning during His time. We certainly shouldn't use meanings that came after that.
But should we use the primary meaning from Jesus' time?
If it's a totally new teaching, likely yes.
But when Jesus for example quoted Isaiah then we must use the dictionary of Isaiah's time.
The reason is simple.
Isaiah was a inspired man. The HS did not lie to him or trick him by using words Isaiah knew, but the HS meant the 2018 meaning of that word.
Likewise Jesus' use of Isaiah's words must be understood with the dictionary of Isaiah's time. Not a modernized meaning Jesus knew.
If we would not do that then the inspired words of Jesus and Isaiah will conflict. Jesus words will never override a single word from an ancient prophet because they both tapped from the very same source of wisdom. The HS.
And that makes Bible study so impossible. There are very few 2000BC dictionaries for sale at the moment... :laugh:
QuoteWhy was Hell spelled Hel in parts of the KJV-1611 Bible?
Did you know that the secular meaning behind the word 'hell,' just as the original meaning of 'hades' simply meant hidden, out of sight? Yep, in the ancient German, when two young folks went to a dark place to hide for some necking, they went to hel, they hid somewhere. Our English words helmut, hall, hole, and heel, all stem from the German word hele. The religious meaning of the word Hell came from Germany too -- actually it came from Teutonic mythology.
Hele was a goddess of the underworld in ancient folklore.
Hel is the name of the Norse underworld, and its ruler. Hel/Hela, in Norse mythology, was the hideous daughter of the Giant Loki, banished to the netherworld, Helheim (literally, 'house of Hel'), world of the dead, by the Chief God, Odin. The distinctive looking Goddess, whose skin is black on one side, rules over the dead until Ragnarok and the coming birth of the new world.
Hel is sister of Fenris, the wolf, and Jormungand, the world-serpent.
The name for the Christian world of torment "Hell" is derived from Hela's abode. Unlike the Christian version, however, Hel's realm was home to all who did not die in battle - miserable as it was, good behavior wasn't any more likely to get one a reprieve. Helheim's entrance works only in one direction- once one has entered, even a God, one cannot leave - like the Greek Hades, Helheim is guarded by a monstrous hound, and encircled by an impassable river. According to legend, the dead will remain in Hel's kingdom until the last days of Ragnarok.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate and sure I don't entirely agree. It is true that the word 'Hell' was used in English Bibles to translate the Greek word 'Hades' and Hades does mean unseen, but, as I understand 'Hades' is primarily the name of the god of the underworld and secondarily the name of that realm. It was believed, IIRC, that Hades had an invisibility cap so he could go about his business (not that I'm entirely sure what that was meant to be) and, apparently the name Hades was like the Greek equivalent of 'Voldemort'which Greek people were loath to say be the believed it would provoke him, which, apparently, you didn't want to do.
However, 'Hell' does not actually mean unseen, so far as I can tell, but 'cover' or 'conceal' I suppose concealed things would be unseen if they were concealed successfully, but it's hardly identical to what it means to call Hades 'unseen' and I'm unclear as to why the early church chose the term and even less clear as to why they also used it for Gehenna and Tartarus which definitely has nothing to do with 'unseen' in either the sense it connects to Hades or Hel.
But whatever Hell or Hades may or may not mean I reject the notion that a modern meaning of a word is automatically wrong; the Holy Spirit is God and God is God for all time, He's greater than we are and has planned and written the whole of history, He knows when He speaks what He will be taken to mean both to the person He's speaking to and to any sages and idiots that read the words afterwards. Who is to say it is not in His plan that one generation should read it one way and another generation a different way and only one be correct. God knows the power of the words He speaks like none else and this put a great burden of responsibility on Him because He knows when He speaks all the wars and conflicts and persecutions that will unfold depending on all the myriad interpretations of what He said, He could have said something different, but He different. This is the burden of being God, whenever God engages with history He changes it direction from the direction it would have taken had He chosen not to involve Himself with it. Therefore it is reasonable to suppose that He only involves Himself if those consequences, even the less palatable ones, are acceptable to Him and won't utterly undermine His purposes and by the same token not reasonable to assume to only the original meaning of what the text said (some of which we don't even know but is lost to history) in the only correct meaning.
they use to'hell' potatoes too,when they planted them..they were both covered..and unseen. :2c:
Well, at least that makes sense. There's also an under the earth reference there.