Tentmaker Forum

Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation => Judgement and Punishment => Topic started by: donken on April 24, 2014, 10:08:00 PM

Title: The Good News of Heb. 6:6
Post by: donken on April 24, 2014, 10:08:00 PM
Heb 6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, AND OF ETERNAL JUDGMENT.
Heb 6:3  And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

When the above scriptures begin to become active and activated in us we know it is the day of the Lord.  We are to be "renewed" to RIGHTEOUSNESS in us.
It occurs only after we have already repented or turned to Christ but are not yet fully obedient.  The disobedience is removed "at that time of God's eternal judgment" given to us to become our own wisdom.  We are already turned to Christ so can not be "turned to Christ again" because we ARE turned toward Him already.  No need to "turn again", it is now time to become actually HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS in us as our own righteousness too, fully turned to Jesus Christ in maturity.

The "unpardonable" sin is really very very good new for us all when we are aware of what it really means.  If we have committed something that is not of the Spirit of GOD KNOWINGLY and have done so on purpose, that DEED and it's spiritual motive is not going to be forgiven and allowed to remain when THE DAY OF THE LORD IS FINALLY COME to US FOR OUR GOOD.  It clearly says in Hebrews 6 that it is ONLY after we have tasted the GOOD word of God and of the world to come that we can even commit this kind of deed.   The good work of God is really the hidden manna spoken of in scripture, or... saying it another way, to believe that God does good only and never does evil to or upon "anyone".  It we believe that, then we can believe that God does not do evil to those who knowingly commit evil.  But... our own ways, the disobedient ways, may be allowed to come upon ourselves because of doing evil to others while knowing it is wrong.  It is the natural ways of the world that bring evil upon us and sometimes it is the result of something we did that caused bad things upon us. The passage in Hebrews 6 is really only active and effective when we UNDERSTAND the truth of God and Jesus Christ PROPERLY.  When we understand the truth of God properly is when we have actually tasted or experienced the GOOD WORD "of or from" God ourselves.

In Hebrews 5:5 we are told that a Christian who was teaching something wrong and was refusing to stop was "given over to Satan".  This only went on for a time.  This is what being corrected BY OUR OWN WAYS means.  Our own ways end in death of the body, often after much pain and sorrow.  Unless we are able to be healed first, we die physically.   Also, Two Christians who were teaching that the resurrection was past already were given over to Satan as well because they were teaching improperly and were not listening to Paul.   As we read the scriptures below please do not be afraid or alarmed, they are being shown here because we are able to learn something beneficial using them.  Whether we do or not is up to what the reader decides for themselves.

2Co_12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.   {What was bothering Paul was a common bodily ailment of some sort, "of the world" and natural}

1Ti_1:20  Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.   {{Please notice, given over to Satan because of doing something wrong, but only for the purpose of LEARNING NOT TO LIE\BLASPHEME.  It does not mean to not be "saved" at some future time but learning such things are a process of growth to maturity in Jesus Christ.   To LEARN something.  We need this in the whole world today, but we must understand or we will not know what is going on.  We have been waiting for Him and this without realizing it}.

1Co 5:5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

We see in the verse directly above that this person who was given over to Satan as a Christian was still going to be "saved" in the DAY of the Lord Jesus.  I would like to share that I am stating that that day is now upon us, like a thief in the night.  It comes to all of us while we are in the dark about it until it comes.  In fact the Christian that 1 Corinthians 5:5 is talking about was brought back into the church a little while later because he was turned and his "flesh doctrine" or teaching by the man of sin in him, natural Adam's mind and spirit, was destroyed or dissolved away by the truth replacing it.

Given over to Satan is simply being given over to the ways of the world even if it seems that one prospers for a while they will perish and have to be judged LATER.  There is no escape from that judgment because it is salvation.  We are not able to knowingly do wrong and wait for judgment some other day now either because the day of maturity is now entering into the world "from on high".

When the type of deed mentioned in Heb. 6:6 "against the Holy Spirit" is done, it is when WE as Christians in knowledge lie against the Holy Spirit in us willingly.  For instance, if I were to teach something that I know is incorrect about God but I do it for my own gain or "glory" etc, then it is me DOING THAT LIE which is what will not be forgiven.  To lie or do things that are a lie about God {the Holy Spirit} on purpose with intent to do it is will soon be forgiven no longer.  Please notice that I said "soon" to be forgiven no longer.  We first must hear the word of truth and correction CLEARLY.  When something is forgiven, it does not mean that what was forgiven will not be done again.  But when God determines in HIs day that we are not going to be allowed to do evil or be overpowered by the evil of the law of sin in us any longer, WE will be saved from the power of evil over us. Through the process of this work of God in us we will eventually have the maturity in Jesus Christ fully established IN US.  When our misdeeds are forgiven no longer, it simply means that the continuation of those same deeds will be ended, thus the deed is not forgiven any longer.  This is good news "if" we know that the accomplishment of "sins" is going to be removed.

We can not willingly do what we see with the Father in us when we do not "see" {understand} what is of God the Father in us and what is not of God in us.  This is accomplished as the full maturity of the Spirit of GOD comes to "destroy the man or nature of sin IN US by the brightness or light of HIS PRESENCE and the SPIRITUAL MEANING of his MOUTH".
2Th 2:7  For the MYSTERY of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, **until he be taken out of the way.**
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

It is the MYSTERY about what iniquity really is that causes us to be spiritually blind about these things.  The "man of sin" is simply the FIRST ADAM and many of the ways of the world and the flesh have passed themselves off to us, with our willingness, because we did not know what iniquity or ungodliness really was.
It is the MYSTERY that is going to be removed, not Christians.  The  mystery is removed as God identifies the TARES in us FOR US.

  Scripture tells us that that which is first is NATURAL and is not spiritual.  This is crucial.  We need to understand that we are all born immature at first.  The first IS natural.  Scripture does not say we "became" natural, or worldly.   We are born as and have always been "natural" or worldly even if we did not know it.
1 Corinthians 3 tells us that Christians who believe about Christ can be and ARE natural or carnal, behaving as MEN and not as Jesus.

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4  For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?


When one does something Unchristian by reflex action or without meaning to do so or was just taken and did it like Paul mentions in Romans 7, not in agreement with doing it, that is not doing it in "knowing" and in AGREEMENT with the disobedient motive and action.  It is NOT disobedient to be TEMPTED.  But when we are tempted and we know it is something we are not supposed to do IF we are to obey Jesus, then we are to RESIST DOING IT. That is what resisting temptation is.  Scripture tells us that there is nothing that has taken us but that which is COMMON TO ALL MANKIND.  Ie.. it is a natural attribute from our own body and mind. 

Paul said there was a power {law} in his own flesh that caused him to do that which he did not want to do.  This shows us that we are not yet free if we are doing things that we know are not Christian and yet we do not want to be doing them.  Becoming the Mature SON of GOD is what sets us free from the power of this law of sin in our members. It is the law of sin in our members that is the ENMITY against obedience to God in us.  In Jesus Christ the ENMITY is abolished, and we will be made one new man, the man Jesus Christ in the flesh in the world.  Jesus is the savior or Each body.

But if we do not yet know it is wrong to do such things, we are still in the situation where we DO NOT KNOW YET WHAT WE ARE DOING, at least in that particular area.  As Jesus said, those who do not know what they are doing are to be forgiven BECAUSE they\we do not know what we are doing yet.

For us to walk with God knowingly and willingly in agreement with God we MUST know the difference between good and evil according to how Jesus Christ knows it.  Then, if we have knowledge of these things and "purposely" disobey what we know Jesus desires of us, we are to be CORRECTED.  To be corrected means to be made to conform to what is correct.  It does not mean to be afflicted from God.  What it means is that the deed will NO LONGER BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN as our deeds as matured Christians.  We will be being matured to participate in God's righteousness as His son.

In history the church did many, many, evil things at times. Even in the day of the apostles the apostles were always telling the people that were Christians to not do this, and not do that, and to do this or do that.  This means that the HOLY SPIRIT was not teaching the church what was right in God's eyes,  The apostles as men were "trying" to teach the church members what was right, but the church members were NOT being corrected by God FROM WITHIN THEM.

So, to be corrected by God means the Holy Spirit has to be actively raising us up into the Spirit of God by becoming righteous and "saved" in truth.

What that scripture, Hebrews 6:6, is talking about, is the time when God will actually begin to actively CORRECT US into His righteousness.  We are to seek HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS {to be our righteousness} FIRST and the Dominion of God IN US FIRST OF ALL BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE.  This includes not being an evangelist when we do not know what the mind of Christ really is yet.  Judgment MUST BEGIN at the HOUSE "OF" GOD scripture says, which is US. Scripture tells us that OUR BODY is to be the temple or house of God, filled with GOD as who the body is one with.

Mat_6:33  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

What the scripture we read in regard to not being forgiven any more is not that we are not going to be forgiven, it means the DEED that is evil and has power over us at that time is NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN over us ANY LONGER.  This is a good thing, even if hurtful for a time, because it means our salvation through the actual righteousness of God being established in us.  Then the dominion of God will fully be in us as who we are, like it was\is in Jesus Christ in Israel.  It IS good news.  This day is the day or time and God is now beginning to accomplish His will that was His intent before the foundation of the creation. God's righteousness being established in all people will fulfill and manifest all the promises of good and peace on earth through the Spirit of God being poured out upon all flesh.  From on high.

Luk_24:49  And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Isa 32:13  Upon the land of my people shall come up thorns and briers; yea, upon all the houses of joy in the joyous city:
Isa 32:14  Because the palaces shall be forsaken; the multitude of the city shall be left; the forts and towers shall be for dens for ever, a joy of wild asses, a pasture of flocks;
Isa 32:15  **Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high,**      and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.
Isa 32:16  Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field.
Isa 32:17  And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Isa 32:18  And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places;

Isa_11:6  The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa_65:25  The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

This is the condition that will be present here on this planet when the Spirit of the LORD is Lord in the creation.  It is this very same planet, not a different one.
But first, and now, we must be given "eyes", the eyes of our understanding properly what God desires of us and how, so we can be two that walk together with God in agreement for what God is doing.

God bless, ken
Title: Re: The Good News of Heb. 6:6
Post by: Seth on April 25, 2014, 12:23:39 AM
Yes, the whole covenant is Good News, but "good" doesn't always mean "pleasant" of course, as you are saying. I've often viewed the "hath not forgiveness unto the age, but is in danger of the judgment of the age" as meaning that those who blaspheme the Spirit are still under the judgment of Adam. That they have shown by their actions that they are still in the darkness and have not repented for the remission of sins, that they are still in need of salvation. I do not take it to mean that God is holding back forgiveness when they ask, at the end of the age, but that God has reserved them to the fire of their own actions to humble them and they will not repent because their heart is already hardened, so as to blaspheme the Spirit.
Title: Re: The Good News of Heb. 6:6
Post by: donken on April 26, 2014, 09:44:54 AM
Hi.  As we know, the scripture tells us that if we do not really know what we are doing, we are going to be forgiven.  Heb. 6:6 in speaking about no more forgiveness means that we are going to be matured, no choice about it.  But it also means we are going to be given to understand clearly WHAT WE ARE DOING.  God deals with Sons, not the spirit of man.  Scripture in John says that the Father judges NO MAN.  But... he does judge the Son.  That is why it says that if we are not being judged or made correct by God we are bastards still and now yet SONS who are to be matured by being made correct and understanding.

And, Jesus said it would ONLY BE at the harvest time that the tares would be separated from the wheat and the tares would be bound and eventually cast out of the Kingdom, us.  So, we have to know the tares from the wheat FIRST so we can be judged as KNOWLEDGEABLE sons, who KNOW WHAT we are doing and why, and how and by the obedience of always doing what we SEE {understand} WITH THE FATHER "in us".   The blind do not receive this kind of judgment so they must be made seeing first, the eyes of the understanding being enlightened.  Then, in this evil day, WE STAND {resurrect} instead of remain lying down.

God bless, ken