I had a conversation with someone yesterday who's having trouble getting past the "if hell is a mistranslation, there sure is a lot of scripture that seems like a lot of people are sure getting hot" by literally burning in literal flames of fire. Then I ran across "The Lazarus Phenomenon" while flipping channels. (The picture of the guy on the left is supposedly Lazarus, sitting in a literal, burning "hell".) www.integrityfamilymedia.com/lazarus/
ET/mainstream quotes: "Jesus talked more about hell than He did about heaven".
"Even if the Rich Man and Lazarus WAS a parable, Jesus didn't go around talking about things He didn't believe in [people burning in literal fire]".
UR quote of SOME UR believers: "We still believe in hell (literal burning lake of fire) we just believe it's temporary".
Personal quote: "I tend to believe it's a spiritual (symbolic) fire – our God's a consuming fire".
Why so much use of at least the language of real, flaming fire by Jesus? I.e, the fire of Gehenna, trees cut down and cast into the fire, the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world... etc.
For many today, in the very least, it seems confusing if He's not talking about literal fire. Why use that terminology if He wasn't teaching literal flames? Or was He?
When He says to take up your Cross and follow Him, is He talking a literal Cross that if we don't die on a literal one by life's end, we're going to Hell? Or is He using EXTREMELY DISTURBING imagery to portray pouring the Oil of the Spirit on your own head and igniting it with the Word of God pouring forth from your own mouth until all traces of the flesh have been consumed and nothing but the inward man that's renewed day by day thru the ashes of consumed flesh is emerging thru your life? Taking up your Cross is very very serious and graphic. Few in His hearing didn't either have family members or former acquaintances that weren't nailed to a tree just up the street, and He's choosing to use such disturbing imagery that we've lost the shock value of with 1500yrs of Catholicism since we seldom deal with literal crucifixions today.
Yet He took imagery of absolute brutality with GREAT REGULARITY to express what Father's DEMANDS were regarding our CUTTING OFF the flesh, NAILING IT to a pole, etc. I contend that the flaming imagery is emphatically His declaration to get serious about putting off the old man and putting on the New Man, and He's saying it's in your best interests to take that Bible and do it to yourself 'cause Father won't flinch in peeling that garbage from your life in thought, word, and action and He won't be as gentle in the amount of Oil He pours over your head and sets the lighter of His declaration against it until nothing's left but His original investment in your created life and what He's always intended it to be, beginning to emerge! Most people can't handle the genuine brutality that's involved in genuine Biblical Christianity where He demands that we put off the old man, if it required self mutiliation, and putting on Christ Jesus while making absolutely no provision for the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life.
Everything in your life is a seed, a harvest, or kindling.
:nod:
Lord Jesus, being a Jew, will always preach the Gospel with holocaust imagery!
QuoteLord Jesus, being a Jew, will always preach the Gospel with holocaust imagery!
:LH: :LH:
:cloud9:AMEN Martin! :thumbsup:
QuoteLord Jesus, being a Jew, will always preach the Gospel with holocaust imagery!
I have to ask why? Where does this biblical concept come from?
As far as I can see that statement in just a sensationalized idealism. There is a straight forward reason for Jesus's imagry, and it has nothing to do with Him being a Jew.
I do believe people believe in a litteral hell because they don't know bible context and know American/greek culture.
The bible clearly talks about fire and the fire is primarliy a profitable encounter.
Zephaniah 3:8"Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9"For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the LORD,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder.
Don't forget that the servants of the Lord are called Ministers of Fire, and the holy spirit appeared as fire how many times? Even in the upper room the Holy Ghost appeared as fire landing on the apostles.
All of a sudden just because it's in revelation it becomes a bad thing?