R.H. Charles: bring eschatology into harmony w/ Xtian theology of God

Started by DavidFord, October 18, 2018, 02:59:21 AM

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DavidFord

_Ascension Manual: Mystic Mentoring (in Christ)_ (2016), 294pp. by Robin Main.  On 53-55
https://www.amazon.com/Ascension-Manual-Mystic-Mentoring-Christ/dp/0578188511
....God is even releasing captives in hell who have already died, just as Yeshua did. How do I know this? I've done it, begrudgingly at first.  ....as I was... spending my usual quiet time with Him in the morning.... Yeshua asked me if I'd like to go to hell and set some captives free. My first answer was: "I'd rather not." Then I added: "But I will if you want me to." 

With a smile, my Love affirmed that's what he desired; and then, grabbed my hand in the Spirit and off we went. We descended into the earth to a place that I knew immediately was a sexual swamp. It looked like lava, but it wasn't. I saw beings leap out covered in red ooze with their mouths open and shrieking. It was an awful sound and sight. We landed on the bank of this red sexual swamp where a person was holding onto the side for all they were worth. .... Yeshua.... told me to preach the gospel to this lady. I knew it was a lady due to her Farrah Fawcett like hairdo. The rest of her was becoming like the red ooze, but her hair was somehow intact.

....Romans 10:9-10 came to mind. I preached to this precious imprisoned soul: If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that Father God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Would you like to accept Yeshua as your Lord and Saviour today? I watched her make the biggest effort to say "yes" that I have ever seen. As soon as the very fiber of this woman's being forced out a yyyyyyyeeeeesss, Yeshua grabbed her out of the sexual swamp, and put her up on his back. Then he grabbed my hand and we all shot up to heaven. When we got there, to my amazement the woman that got off Yeshua's back already transformed and clothed in white was Farrah Fawcett herself. I think I had my mouth open, but I was remembering: "Oh yeah, Farrah Fawcett died two days ago."  Two beautiful attendant angels came and got her; but before she was escorted off, Farrah turned to Yeshua and asked him: "Could you send her (me) to Red and Ray (her son and husband)?" Yeshua replied kindly: "Not her, but I will send others."

I have since descended into hell to preach to imprisoned souls several times, but my one request has been that Yeshua always goes with me. ....if you are to descend "in Christ" to preach to the imprisoned souls in Sheol, you never stay in that descended state. Always ascend on high, like our Pattern Son did.  .... Also, know that I have seen people who have died refuse the gospel....

DavidFord

_Camps Farthest Out: The Journey: Past, Present, and Future: Celebrating 75 Years of Living Prayer_ (2005) including: "The Thought Farthest Out" (1930) by Glenn Clark and "The Saga of Glenn Clark and the Camps Farthest Out" (1980) by Glenn Harding, 253pp.  On 223-4:

Another talk was entitled "Symphony" or "Harmony" based on Matthew 18. In this, Roland told of the Christian who spoke to a sinner about serious sin in their life. If they do not listen, take two or three witnesses. If they will not listen, then tell the church. If they do not listen then, **treat them as a taxgatherer or publican!!** Now most of us would say, "That lets me off the hook. They deserve what they get. I am finished with them." But Roland said, "This is where we really start to pray for this person with great faith relinquishing them into Jesus' loving hands and thanking him in advance for what he has already achieved on the cross for their salvation."

I recall Roland telling us of a visit to a maximum security prison. He said when you went through the huge doors into a semicircular closed-in area between the other large iron doors there was a sense of claustrophobia.  In this area Roland was to meet and speak with a violent prisoner in for murder. At this juncture there were only the two of them present. The prisoner came for Roland with a piece of iron or wood, saying "I am going to kill you!!" Roland replied "No you're not, because I love you."  The prisoner replied as he approached menacingly, "I am going to kill you" to which Rolland replied, "No you're not, because I love you!" This was repeated several times, and then the prisoner dropped his weapon and knelt down sobbing, "No one has ever loved me," to which Roland replied, "Jesus does, enough to die for you, and I do too!"

DavidFord

This is a mind-blowing book.

_My Journey Beyond Beyond: An autobiographical record of deep calling to deep in pursuit of intimacy with God_ by Mike Parsons (2018), 244pp., 206-208
https://www.amazon.com/My-Journey-Beyond-Autobiographical-Intimacy/dp/1789630088/
Jesus... gave me a silver trumpet and pointed towards a door that I had not seen there before. I asked, "Where did that door come from?" Smiling, Jesus said, "It has always been there, but your mind would not allow you to see it."

The door opened and we walked into a place I could only describe as fire but as I discovered myself, when engaging the fires of the judgment seat or the altar, this was also a manifestation of God who is a consuming fire. Fire is an expression of God's love, not punishment, and what I observed was multitudes of people standing consumed by fire, in anguish or torment of soul facing the reality of their life's choices. There were no demons or devils with pitchforks-- those ideas are more aligned with Dante's _Inferno_ and Hieronymus Bosch's paintings than the reality of what I was seeing-- and God was certainly not punishing, torturing or tormenting anyone either.  ....

I looked at Jesus and he was saying nothing. So rather tongue-tied and feebly I began to preach the good news. When I finished, Jesus turned to walk out and I thought "I am not staying here on my own." Noticing the silver trumpet in my hand, I thought I had better blow it, so on my way to the door I did so. We walked what seemed like a long way through the fiery tunnel and back through the door, which now had the appearance of a fiery sword. We turned towards the door and I saw that some people had followed us through the fire and as they approached the door, they kneeled and I heard them confess Jesus as Lord and walk through the door, entering through the gate into Zion.

I turned to look at Jesus and said "What have you done to me now? I am ruined! What am I supposed to say to people?" Jesus smiled again and said "Tell them that you are doing what I did, and that I have told everyone to do what I did and greater." ....
I have been back to the fire many times now for each of my family lines with varying degrees of success-- but tens of thousands have responded, accepting and confessing Jesus as Lord and joining the ranks of the cloud of witnesses. .... Since beginning to share this publicly as others are now doing, I have had many emails and messages thanking me because others have had similar experiences, but have been apprehensive to share them for fear of being branded a heretic.

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245. What Jesus Did - 2 years ago
https://freedomarc.blog/2018/04/13/245-what-jesus-did/
Some years ago, I was a given a seal and staff and went through a door on Wisdom's heights. It was a tunnel of fire which opened into a place of extreme restriction and sadness: satan's trophy room. There I saw 3 things:
The sparkling diamond trophies of the destinies of those living and dead who had not believed the good news
Stolen mantles and crowns
An area of the heritage of my generational family lines

Now Jesus took me back there. He showed me the heritage area and I looked at the family line of my father's father.  Jesus said to me, "Do you want to see this restored?"  I asked "How?"

Into the fire
Then He showed me a door I had not seen when I came before. He explained that the door had been there all along, but my framework of beliefs would not allow me to see it. Then He gave me a silver heralding trumpet and we went through the door into the fire. There were thousands of people there from that part of my family line, not talking to one another; isolated individuals who appeared to be in anguish of soul. They were not being tormented; there was no devil there with a pitchfork or anything like that. They were there, on their own, in a place of consuming fire.

So I looked to Jesus, hoping He was going to do something. He just stood there looking right back at me. So eventually I preached the good news to them, though not very well! I felt rather tongue-tied and overwhelmed. Overwhelmed with love, actually, and of course completely unprepared. But at least I told them that they could accept Jesus and come out.

I figured Jesus must have given me the trumpet for a reason, so I blew it. He turned to walk out, and there was no way I was going to stay in there on my own, so I followed Him back through the tunnel of fire. I went through the door back to Wisdom's heights and this time I saw that the door was like a fiery sword (I knew that a fiery sword guards the way to the Tree of Life).

I looked back and a few hundred people had followed us to the door. As they approached I saw them kneel, I heard them confess Jesus as Lord and they walked out and through the gates into Zion.

Authority
I turned to Jesus. "What have you done to me? I'm in trouble now! How do I explain this?"
Jesus said "Just tell people that you are doing what I did-- and I told you to do what I did, and greater things. This is just the beginning."

I asked Jesus why so few of them had followed us out of the fire. If it was me and someone offered me a way out, I would have been out of there as fast as I could. This is what He told me:
"You can only preach with authority to the degree that the fire has consumed generational things in you. That is why not everyone responded. Keep presenting yourself to the fire of the altar and you will be able to reach more of your generational lines. Embrace the coals to touch areas of your life that have come from your generations; that will give you authority."

So I present myself as a living sacrifice on the altar in the temple every day.

Back again-- and again
Since that first time, I have been back to engage each of my 4 generational family lines and preached the good news to them. When I was in China in 2017 someone gave me a silver heralding trumpet just like the one Jesus had given me. One morning while I was there I woke at 3am and felt a strong desire to engage the altar and ask for the fiery coals to touch a specific area of behaviour, the area of divorce.

As I did, I began to feel intensely loving towards everyone in my generations who had been divorced, not angry or resentful, and I began forgiving them and blessing them. Once I finished I went to the fiery place again. I preached to all my generational lines with boldness, blew the silver trumpet and this time many more responded. They followed me out, came to the door, confessed Jesus as Lord and went through.

Later, on a Sunday morning here at Freedom as I was embracing the fire another area surfaced. I again went back and preached with renewed boldness and once again many more responded. Another time, I wondered what it might be like if I took communion down into the fire. So I went back there and offered communion, the body and blood of Jesus, to those who were in the fire. Yet again, many responded!

More recently I became aware that there were many in that place with fractured souls, what we sometimes call 'stuck parts', mostly caused by trauma in their lives. They were double-minded, triple-minded or worse and were unable to make a decision to follow Jesus. So I asked Jesus to come with me and I told them they could come to the Prince of Peace (shalom means 'wholeness') and be made whole. Vast numbers of them did so.

My strong desire is to empty that place, but for that to happen I need to embrace the fire myself. I need to be good news and demonstrate that good news in my own life.

I have now had many experiences of going into the place of fire both for personal refining and on rescue missions. The fire of God is for purifying and refining and removing all the dross in people's lives. They are waiting for someone to come and share the good news with them.

Testimony
One day, before I even mentioned this publicly, a friend I meet with online said he had something to share with me. He had been engaging in heaven when some of his family members came up to him. He was surprised and said "I didn't know you were believers in Jesus!" And they said, "We weren't. But we remembered that you said your whole household would be saved, and Jesus came and preached the good news to us, and that's why we are here." This really did not fit my friend's theological box, as he put it. He was encouraged when I then shared my experiences too.

Since then (and especially after this topic cropped up in several of my regular online mentoring groups) I have had conversations with others and I have heard many testimonies of people who have gone into the fire and preached the good news as Jesus did. After I shared this in the Vision Destiny 2017 series I had a number of emails from people thanking me for opening up the discussion as they had been afraid of sharing their experiences because of the reaction they knew it would cause (a reaction I have experienced for myself).

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Nancy Coen Unlocking Ancient Portals, at ~1:21:18
https://youtu.be/gobikk2ZMkM?t=4878
Jesus.... preached the gospel and took captivity out, and we're seeing that day, walking around in the streets of Jerusalem, the souls of those who had been long dead.  Now I'm gonna tell you a real mystery. Now I better turn off the tape. God is going to give us the power to descend into hell and stand in the gap and lead captivity out, and that is the restoration of all things.

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rough, lightly-edited transcript of
Hell? Journey Testimony Part 1 - Supernatural Mentoring Monday 12th March 2018 Washington, Mike Parsons - Apr 17, 2018, 44:35+
https://youtu.be/VZGMc7k_FXU?t=2675
So Jesus went and preached there.
A lot, of course, of what he was talking about before the cross was before the resurrection, so after the cross and the resurrection, some things did change, e.g., there was no Sheol with two parts anymore because he led it all-- everything that was captive there-- he led them out.

So I'm in this place where I'm having all this stuff going on, I'm really struggling with this, I'm just so, 'you know, I could really do without this,' but I had no choice because God is unveiling his truth, he's revealing this stuff, I'm seeing the truth in the Word of God, and therefore I asked him, 'Okay, if this is the case, if everyone who dies without knowing Jesus goes into your consuming fire, what happens to them?'

I asked the question, and Jesus took me there and showed me. He took me into Satan's trophy room, and I'm looking at my area of heritage, my family lines, four family lines, looking at them, and Jesus is like, 'Do you want to engage with this?'  And I'm thinking, 'I don't know what you're talking about, but yeah, I would love to see my family line, I want to see my heritage back.' It was purely selfish, really, because I just wanted my heritage that I never had, and I thought I was gonna get it all. So he says, 'Well, let's go through the door,' and I said 'What door?'-- I'd never seen a door there before. He said, 'That door,' and I'm like, 'Why didn't I see that?' He said, 'Well, because you couldn't see it, because you were blinded by the fact that you didn't believe it existed.' So we go through the door.

He gives me a silver trumpet, and we engaged my father's father's generational life, and they were there in the fire and they are in anguish, and I'm standing there thinking, 'Jesus, what should I do?' He's not saying anything. So eventually I preached a feeble message-- it was terrible, really, but I didn't know what to do, I was so overawed by the experience. So I preached the message of the love of God, I preached Jesus, and I basically told them they didn't need to stay there-- they could accept Jesus and they could come out. And Jesus walked out and I followed him figuring, 'I'm not staying here alone,' so I followed him out, and I blew this trumpet-- I think, 'Well, he gave me it, I better do something with it,' I blew it, and followed him out.

We went back up through this fiery tunnel out through the fiery sword door onto wisdom's heights. Jesus stands, turns around, and a few hundred people followed us, and they got to the fiery sword door, and they kneeled and they confessed Jesus as Lord, and they walked out through the door and walked into Zion.

And I'm standing there with Jesus and I'm looking on, and I said, 'What have you done to me? How am I possibly gonna explain this?' And he said, 'Well, you just tell people that I did this, and I told you to do everything I did-- and greater things, so this is just the beginning, this is not the end.' So I'm like, 'Okay,' so if anyone says, 'Well, you can't do that,' I say, 'Well, Jesus said I can, and Jesus did it.' And so then I said, 'Well why didn't everyone come out? I would have thought that even at the most feeble presentation of the Gospel no one would have stayed there, surely they'd want to get out if they had an opportunity. So he said, 'Well, the authority you have to preach there is proportional to the amount of fire that has been applied to the generational lines in your life,' so I thought, 'Okay, if you want me to go back here, I'm gonna need some more of the fire of the altar, the coals-- you know where Isaiah said, 'I'm a man of unclean lips, amongst a people of unclean lips,' he wasn't just talking about present believers, he was talking about his generational lines with the same. So I have been back there numerous times. I've been back there with some specific things to preach.  When I was on the fire, several times I had some specific things to deal with, and I went back and preached the good news.

I realized, the more I went there-- you know the scripture where it says. 'A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways'-- I think it's in James-- and I realized that I'm preaching to fragmented souls, and some of them are double-minded, triple-minded, quadruple-minded:  they are fragmented in parts, and they can't all respond to the Good News because they're broken, and some of them don't like God because of the things that have happened to them in their lives, and they blame God.

So I went back there last year in December, this very specific encounter, and I thought, 'I need to preach wholeness and peace.  I'm gonna ask Jesus to come with me as the Prince of Peace-- I'm gonna ask him to give me the authority to be able to speak to every part of someone's soul.'  And I preached a really powerful message of healing and restoration from fragmentation and brokenness, and reintegration and wholeness in the Prince of Peace, and I gave them a call to come into the Prince of Peace.  And so many responded to that, and they came and they engaged and they were integrated and whole in their soul, and they accepted Jesus as Lord, and they came out of that place.

Now, I'm not the only one who's having these experiences and encounters-- lots of people are-- Nancy Coen, people like that-- they are having these type of encounters, other people-- I'm not going to mention the names because they may not have publicly said this, so I'm not going to put them on the spot, but I've been talking to them, and I know that they have the same experiences and they have the same beliefs, they're just not necessarily willing to come out because of the potential stuff that happens as a result.

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edited transcript of
Hell? Journey Testimony Part 1 - Supernatural Mentoring Monday 12th March 2018 Washington, Mike Parsons - Apr 17, 2018, 1:00:35+
https://youtu.be/VZGMc7k_FXU?t=3637
I was talking to a friend of mine online and he said to me, 'Can I talk to you?'
So I said, 'Well, yeah sure.'
He said, 'Well I had this experience. I was in heaven the other day, and some of my family came up to me.'
So I said, 'Oh, oh, right.'
He said, "And I said to them, 'I didn't know you were believers!' and they said 'Well we weren't.'"
So he said, 'Well, how did you get here then?'
They said, "Well, Jesus came to us and he preached a message to us, and he reminded us that you used to say, 'And all my household will be saved,' and we responded to his message, and now we're in a relationship with him."
So I said, 'Well yeah, I can totally validate your experience because I've had similar experiences myself.'

And a lot of people are afraid of coming out with their experiences because they're afraid of being shot down and accused of being heretics and being in big hot water with the religious traditional institutions, which unfortunately does happen. But once I came out of the closet if you like over this stuff, which I did in the Vision Destiny series 2017, which I wasn't really intending to do until I really taught it, people started to contact me to say, 'Thank you for sharing this,' because they were afraid a) that they'd lost the plot or b) they were just afraid because they couldn't talk to anyone about it to validate whatever they'd experienced, and they were so thankful that someone had come out and said, 'Look, this is the story, this is the journey,' and lots of people have been like that since.

DavidFord

Everything that happens, God "tolerates."  If God didn't 'tolerate' X, X wouldn't happen, and X wouldn't exist.  Whenever anybody suffers, Jesus suffers that person's suffering.  'Whatever you did to the least of these, you did to Me.'  Humans cause God to experience suffering whenever humans mistreat other humans.
I don't think God directly punishes.  However, God set up the material and spiritual worlds such that when love is acted against, there are negative repercussions.  The negative repercussions can accumulate and crash hard.
Re: the rich man in Hades account, that was an illustrative story.  Before Jesus preached in Sheol, people were in the Abraham's bosom portion, while others were in the toasty portion.  After being beheaded, John the Baptist preached in Sheol.  After being crucified, Jesus preached in Sheol, and I bet he cleared the place out.  Mike Parsons has preached in a hellish place, and as a result, numerous people he preached to confessed Jesus is Lord and entered heaven.
I don't care for what Mary Baxter has to say about hell.  I found credible Bryan Melvin's account of his tour of a hellish realm, and found credible the account of Philip Mantofa.

Hitler is currently roasting.  But he won't roast for an infinitely-long period of time. At some point, he will willingly and gladly and wholeheartedly bow the knee to Jesus and worship Jesus, and enter heaven. 
"he is a God hater" 
And yet God loves Hitler, and God's unconquerable love will overcome Hitler's hatred.
"the lake of Fire awaits him"
From God's side of things, God is already reconciled to Hitler because of what the God-man Jesus did on the cross.  The lake of fire for Hitler would be merely 1 stage during Hitler's being reconciled eventually to God. 
The devil duped numerous angels, despite angels being very hard to trick.  Mike Parsons has freed 3 dark angels from their deceptions, and now they're reconciled to God, and are on God's side and helping people.

"Jesus was a kinsman redeemer, legally only to save Adam's race"
Is Hitler part of 'Adam's race'?
"God does not love everybody"
Who are some people, what are some entities, that God doesn't love?
"The book of Revelation speaks of the judgements"
Judgements to what purpose?
"God says many times that He has enemies"
Yes, God has enemies.  But God and God's love is so powerful that even his enemies will become his friends (if they haven't already).
"we should hate what God hates"
Reference?
"He hates evil Doers"
Who are some people, what are some entities, Jesus-- who is God in the flesh-- hated, if any?

"Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers, children of their father the devil. This is not Adam's race"
Do you think:
Jesus hated the Pharisees? 
the Pharisees weren't humans, but rather vipers?
Jesus has unforgiveness toward anyone?  (recall from the cross, 'Father, forgive them')

"God put enmity or war between the woman's seed and the serpent's seed; who or what are the seed of the serpent?"
Dark angels and demons.

"Didn't God say Jacob I have loved Esau I have hated"
That's 1 translation.  What are some alternate translations?
I know that in the NT, at one point, Jesus speaks about people needing to hate their family members.  However, the NT was originally in Aramaic not Greek, and the contextually-proper translation of the Aramaic is not 'hate,' but rather 'put aside.'

"who are we to question the potter?"
Who questioned the potter, and how?  Do you agree with this?:

Romans 11:29 (Berean Literal)
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

"the gifts of God got to do with this?"
Do you agree with me that God gave gifts to every human and to every fallen angel?

"we must hate what God hates.... a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers"
Did Jesus hate those who falsely accused him?  Did Jesus hate Judas?
"The Lord... hates the wicked and the one who loves violence"
Did Jesus hate those Romans who crucified him?

"child abusers are wicked to the core, evil personified"
Brad Jersak tells of a child abuser who repented, and Jesus forgave the child abuser.  Do you think that's a bogus account?

Do you agree with this?:
1 Cor 15:22 (Berean Literal) 
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-22.htm
For as indeed in Adam all die,
so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Does the Mike Parsons account not "line up with the Word," where 'Word' equals:
the Bible?  Jesus, who is Love incarnate?

"but was declared heresy by the Council of Constantinople in A.D. 543"
Reference?
"By refusing to call anything right or wrong, universalists"
I'm a universalist, and that's incorrect-- it's wrong.

"premise that Bible translations are wrong in their uses of the terms Hell, Gehenna, everlasting, and other words that claim eternal punishment"
Do you think the definition of the word:
"Hell" involves "eternal punishment"?   
"Gehenna" involves "eternal punishment"? 
"Sheol" involves "eternal punishment"?  (if a 'yes,' references/ reasoning?)

"the Bible, as the Word of God, is inerrant"
Even when it has contradictory claims?  What Bible version do you like?

"When the Bible must be rewritten to accommodate a doctrine, it is the doctrine that is wrong, not the Bible"
Even if the doctrine is 'eternal conscious torment'?

"universalists are picking and choosing when aionas ton aionon means 'limited.'"
Do you think aionas _always_ means 'everlasting'?

"God himself warns against attributing human standards to him"
So if I hate a particular person, and think that person needs to roast for an infinite length of time,  I should be careful/ cautious about claiming God also wants that person to roast for an infinite length of time?

"If Hell is only temporary then why did Jesus repeatedly warn people not to end up there"
Prison for most prisoners is temporary.  It's still good to warn kids repeatedly about the dangers of running with a bad crowd pursuing criminal activity.

"What about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man where the rich man goes to hell with no way back to Abraham"
What's impossible for man is possible for the all-powerful God.

Luke 18:27 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), https://biblehub.com/luke/18-27.htm
But Yeshua said, "Those things which are impossible with men can happen with God."

"I know that when we are alive we have that choice, not when we are dead"
Reference for "not when we are dead"?

"'now we can sin and someone can redeem and do the restitution for us' - What is LIE"
So not even Jesus can be a redeemer for a sinner?

"Kat Kerr explained it this way, she said, 'Whoever owns you, at the point of death will come for you." So make sure you belong to God, and not to the enemy.'" 
Sounds correct.  Peter Tan in his _The Spiritual World_ said something similar.

"Kat shared something that was eye-opening she said she was shown by the Lord. When someone who dies who has never had an opportunity to hear the message of Jesus and His redeeming love, the moment that person steps out of their physical body, into the spiritual realm, Jesus will appear to them and give them an opportunity to receive Him as Savior. I know, I was like many of you and said, 'But I thought you had to receive Jesus in the physical body and confess Him with the physical tongue as Savior.' Well it makes sense, how could you receive a Jesus who you never have heard about"
Sounds correct.
_Visions of the Spiritual World_ by Sadhu Sundar Singh - 1926
https://archive.org/stream/VisionsOfTheSpiritualWorldBySadhuSundarSingh-1926-UploadedBy/VisionsOfTheSpiritualWorldBySadhuSundarSingh-1926_djvu.txt
The Correction of Error ....
The Manifestation of Christ ....

"Search the word and don't go by experience"
What if one's experience is preaching in hell and helping some there to start having God's life, and that matches the word that says Jesus preached in hell-- what should one go with then? (both experience and the word?)

"Hell is eternal" Reference?
"God's fire changes, while hell's fire condemns/torments" Are you saying the Creator _didn't_ create hell?
"we cannot decide to be saved after we die" Reference?
"The captivity that was set free was before the manifestation of the Son of God" Reference?
"Once in hell you will remain in hell" Reference?

"he's missing some scriptural truth"
Such as?
"The dead know NOTHING, they're asleep"
So Jesus' account of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus was unrealistic?

"we have been forbidden to awaken the dead"
Jesus preached in hell.  Was that forbidden?
Jesus resurrected several dead people. Was that forbidden?

"Mary K. Baxter and Weise were given divine revelations of hell.... I choose to believe the WORD"  Where in the Bible do you see Baxter and Weise?

Where in Rev 20:11-15 do you see roasting for an infinite length of time?

"God has set a chasm so that none can go from heaven to hell"
Not even Jesus can?
"9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"
That's a translation.  What word underlies "everlasting"? 
"Shut out means a finality and definite rejection not a waiting for one to change their mind and be embraced"
So a man in bed will get up and help a neighbor banging on his door asking for help entertaining a guest in one of Jesus' parables, but God can't be bothered by people roasting?

"THIS SOUNDS LIKE MORMANISM"
Mormons believe Jesus really existed-- do you believe Jesus really existed?
Baxter's book on hell is junk.
"HAVE A SECOND CHANCE"
Peter got a '2nd chance.' Jesus preached to people in hell who thereby got a '2nd chance.'

"God loves us and His heart is good and kind and loving towards us"
Even if somebody rejects God?  Will God roast for an infinite length of time those people who reject him?

1 Peter 3 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/1_peter/3.htm
18 Because The Messiah also died once for the sake of our sins, The Righteous One in the place of sinners, to bring you to God, and he died in body and lived in his Spirit. 19 And he preached to those souls who were held in Sheol, 20 These who from the first were not convinced in the days of Noah when the long-suffering of God commanded that there would be an ark, upon the hope of their repentance, and only eight souls entered it and were kept alive by water.

"I?m talking about those who cannot and will never repent"
Evidence/reasoning that such exists?  If God arranged that they'd suffer in the exact same ways that they caused others to suffer, do you know for a fact that they'd still not repent?

"They do ritual abuse of children and sacrificing of babies and consuming them. Ask God if He loves these people"
There aren't any exceptions for child sacrificers + cannibals here:

John 3:16 (Young's Literal), https://biblehub.com/john/3-16.htm
for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

"does not talk of automatic salvation-- it says to he who believes"
Eventually every human will believe, if they haven't already.
Do you disagree with any of this?:

Philippians 2 (Young's Literal)
https://biblehub.com/ylt/philippians/2.htm
8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, 9 wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that [is] above every name, 10 that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow -- of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth -- 11 and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

"you cancel the Great White Throne Judgement and delete it from the Bible"
The Great White Throne Judgement happened.

"I don't believe hell is eternal. I believe that the lake of fire will consume/ annihilate all evil"
Do you think that those people who enter the lake of fire get snuffed out of existence?

The ancient Hebrews didn't have the concept of "everlasting."  'Olam' means world/age.
Daniel 12:2 (Young's Literal), https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-2.htm
'And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake,
some to life age-during,
and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during.

"whoever doesn't believe will be condemned"
All of God's 'negative' judgments are for a positive purpose.
Hebrews 12:6 (Young's Literal), https://biblehub.com/hebrews/12-6.htm
for whom the Lord doth love He doth chasten,
and He scourgeth every son whom He receiveth;'

"the unpardonable sin"
There are many ages.  Even if something isn't pardoned in 1 age, or in 2 ages, it could still be pardoned in another, later age.

"depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness"
If people live evil lifestyles, their doing miracles and casting out demons and prophesying in Jesus' name won't get them into heaven.

"are you asking me because you want to know?"
My dialogues often include numerous questions.
"seems you have made up your mind"
Like everyone else, I have my views.  My views have changed over the years, and will continue to change.

"God also has great anger" 
What are some things God does while angry?  Suppose I put my hand on a piping hot stove, and burn myself; would it be OK for me to speak of the stove being angry?

//////////////////////////////////////////////
a visit to a valley of torture/death

Philip Mantofa Goes To Hell - WP Films (2011)
See Philip in the movie Furious Love: http://wpfilm.co/208jSyG
Philip Mantofa talks about his journey to hell. This is an excerpt from Furious Love: Deluxe Edition from WP Films.
https://youtu.be/RVwtbR2DHc4

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Gehenna
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/gehenna/
Gehenna is a transliteration from the Aramaic form of the Hebrew ge-hinnom, "valley of Hinnom." This latter form, however, is rare in the Old Testament, the prevailing name being "the valley of the son of Hinnom." Septuagint usually translates; where it transliterates the form is different from Gehenna and varies.

Jeremiah 7:32, from LXX:  Hebrew to Greek to English, plus parallelism, perhaps suggest that Gehenna is the Valley of the Slain:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lxx/jeremias/7.html
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
when they shall no more say,
The altar of Tapheth,
and the valley of the son of Ennom, but,
The valley of the slain;
and they shall bury in Tapheth, for want of room.

Jeremiah 7:32
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/hinnom_2011.htm
HEB: וְגֵ֣יא בֶן־ הִנֹּ֔ם כִּ֖י אִם־
NAS: of the son of Hinnom, but the valley
KJV: of the son of Hinnom, but the valley
INT: the valley of the son of Hinnom for but

or Valley of Slaughter:
Jer 19:6, from LXX
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lxx/jeremias/19.html
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
when this place shall no more be called,
The fall and burial-place of the son of Ennom, but,
The burial-place of slaughter.

or maybe Valley of Wailing:
Strong's Concordance 2011. Hinnom
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/2011.htm
Hinnom: a valley Southwest of Jer.
Original Word: הִנֹּם
Part of Speech: Proper Name Location
Transliteration: Hinnom
Phonetic Spelling: (hin-nome')
Short Definition: Ben-hinnom
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of uncertain derivation
Definition
a valley S.W. of Jer.
NASB Translation
Ben-hinnom* (7), Hinnom (6).
Brown-Driver-Briggs
הִנֹּם proper name, masculine (derivation & meaning dubious; according to Sim Bö Gf and others = wailing, Arabic... from cries of children (see below), but this improbable)....

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Mystical teachings"
Such as?
"activations"
Jesus had students, and did activations with them.  The students at first didn't bring God's healing power to others, then Jesus demonstrated, and then Jesus had them go out and bring God's healing to people-- the students got activated.
Do you think "sound frequencies" exist?
Do you think:
astronauts have done "space travel"? 
John the Revelator visited heaven?
Paul knew someone who visited heaven?

Revelation 4:1 (NIV) After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this."
2 Cor 12 (Berean Literal) 1 ....I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago?whether in the body, I do not know, or out of the body, I do not know; God knows?such a man, having been caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man?whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know; God knows? 4 that he was caught up into Paradise, and he heard inexpressible words, not being permitted to man to speak.

DavidFord

"Paul explicitly said (in 2 Timothy 3:16)
that ALL scripture is God breathed and profitable for teaching,
rebuking, correction, and training in righteousness"
Does that include the 'deuterocanonical' books not present these days
in Protestant Bibles?

"Jesus... the scriptures to bolster his arguments in.... By doing
this, he proves the validity of the old testament scriptures"
On the Mount of Transfiguration, there was Moses (representing the
law) and Elijah (representing the prophets).  God said, 'Listen to
Jesus.'  The words and deeds of the God-man Jesus far outweigh the
weight of the scriptures.  If the scriptures suggest X, while Jesus'
words and deeds suggest not-X, we have to side with Jesus.

"someone goes and sleeps around with someone who isn't his wife and ends up contracting an STI, who's to blame for his STI? Not God. That's the natural consequence of his actions from in a fallen world"
So the bacteria and viruses behind syphillis, HIV, and gonorrhea etc. didn't exist before The Fall?

"I'm talking about the divine retribution from God"
I'm supposed to imitate God.  What are some things I can do to imitate "divine retribution from God"?  (call down fire on my enemies to incinerate them?)

"The idea of the lake of fire in the bible isn't to purify anyone"
What's its purpose?  (for the enjoyment of onlookers, who get pleasure from seeing people in agony?)

"the idea is of torment/punishment.... is not a fire that purifies but a fire that torments.... the fire mentioned in revelations is always about torment or punishment"
Saddam Hussein and Hitler tortured certain people for a finite length of time.
In your view, who is more cruel:  Saddam Hussein, or God?  Hitler, or God?

The Old Testament and New Testament contain progressive revelation about the nature of God.  Some ideas about God, e.g. that God prompted King David to sin by taking a census, turned out to be incorrect or incomplete understandings.  Jesus is the definitive revelation of the nature of God; every Old Testament passage about God must be viewed through the lens of Jesus, who was God in an earth-suit.
Do you think God prompted David to sin by taking a census?  (A later, more theologically-informed rendition has satan and not God prompting the sin.)

2 Samuel 24
1 Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."  10 And David's heart condemned him after he had numbered the people. So David said to the Lord, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done; but now, I pray, O Lord, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly."
1 Chronicles 21
1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.  7 And God was displeased with this thing; therefore He struck Israel. 8 So David said to God, "I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing; but now, I pray, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly."

"all scripture is God breathed. They're from God. And God will never contradict himself"
What's your favorite Bible version?  I'll point out some contradictions in it.

"what God does when he's angry.... Revelations.... Acts 12:23, Acts 5:1-11"
Peter killed Ananias and his wife. Do you approve of me killing those who lie to the Holy Spirit?

"Ananias and Sapphira"
Where in Acts 5:1-11 does the Bible attribute the death of the couple to God?
Do you agree with me that:
Elijah incinerated soldiers?
2 of Jesus' students wanted to incinerate Samaritans?

2 Kings 1:10 (NIV), https://biblehub.com/2_kings/1-10.htm
Elijah answered the captain, "If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!" Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men.

Luke 9 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/ylt/luke/9.htm
51 And it came to pass, in the completing of the days of his being taken up, that he fixed his face to go on to Jerusalem, 52 and he sent messengers before his face, and having gone on, they went into a village of Samaritans, to make ready for him, 53 and they did not receive him, because his face was going on to Jerusalem. 54 And his disciples James and John having seen, said, "Sir, wilt thou [that] we may command fire to come down from the heaven, and to consume them, as also Elijah did?" 55 and having turned, he rebuked them, and said, "Ye have not known of what spirit ye are; 56 for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save;" and they went on to another village.

///////////////////////////////////
"Your god says that he never changes"
Knowledge of God's nature has changed and improved-- it's evolved through the years.

"Man interprets his word to suit his own particular mindset"
Do you think people naturally _want_ to forgive their enemies?
"Sola scriptura" is a illogical position.

"the god of the old testament is an obvious and wholly unapologetic tyrant"
Including here?:
Exodus 21:23-25 (HCSB)
If there is an injury, then you must give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, bruise for bruise, wound for wound.

I recall reading that previously, an acceptable response in the Ancient Near East was more like this approach:
Genesis 4:23-24 (NIV)
Lamech said to his wives,
"Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
wives of Lamech, hear my words.
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for injuring me.
If Cain is avenged seven times,
then Lamech seventy-seven times."

"Explain to me how a god of love can conceive such a punishment as stoning to death anyone who as much as picks up sticks to build a fire on the sabbath day"
I haven't stockpiled a ready answer.  Shall I dig up and consult 2 books I have on God & the OT & violence?

I'm here to continue dialogues.
"what causes anyone to believe that the god of Abraham is a god of love"
The God-man Jesus is "the god of Abraham," Isaac, and Jacob, and Jesus was and is very loving.

"god, who orders stoning and burning as punishments"
I'm familiar with stoning.  Reference for burning?

Jeremiah 19:5 (NIV)
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal--something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

"'now, go forward and show no mercy. Kill every man, woman and child. Destroy every living thing'... This is love?"
Doesn't sound like it.  How certain is it that God said that?  Even today, many say things like, 'God told me to marry you, even though I'm already married'-- people often claim God said things that God didn't actually say.

"universalist position.... there are way more scriptures in both testaments, that support the doctrine that very few people are saved from eternal damnation"
In terms of scriptural evidence, the situation is this:
never-ending torture < annihilationism < universalism

Universal Restoration verses
https://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/universal-restoration-verses/

"Jesus taught this clearly"
Including with Jesus' remarks about the woman hunting for her lost coin, the shepherd hunting for his lost sheep, and the father anxiously awaiting the return of his prodigal son?
Including here?:

Luke 16 (Berean Literal), https://biblehub.com/blb/luke/16.htm
8 And the master praised the unrighteous manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the sons of this age are more shrewd than the sons of the light in their own generation. 9 And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by the mammon of unrighteousness, that when it fails, they might receive you into the eternal dwellings.

"Jesus said that very few enter heaven on the narrow path and that most travel the broad path to destruction.... Not a temporary state of punishment, but absolute and permanent destruction"
The NT was originally in Aramaic, not Greek.  The word in question can mean "total and absolute destruction," but it can also mean 'ruination.'

"so did Paul"
Including in Romans 5? 

Incidentally, the Greek copies of Romans 5:7 have a corrupted reading.
Romans 5:7, https://biblehub.com/romans/5-7.htm
(NIV) Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person,
though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) For a man will hardly die for the sake of the wicked,
however a man perhaps may dare to die for the sake of the good.

"to Timothy, that Jesus is the saviour of all"
1 Timothy 4:10 (NIV)
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Philippians 2 (NIV)
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed?not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence?continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

//////////////////////////////////
"I came not except for the lost sheep of Israel"
Indeed.

Matthew 15 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
21 But Yeshua went out from there and he came to the borders of Tsur and of Tsidon. 22 And behold *a Canaanitess woman* from those borders came forth crying out and she said, "Have pity on me my lord, son of David, my daughter is badly driven by a demon." 23 But he did not give her an answer, and his disciples came and begged him, and they were saying, "Send her away, for she is crying after us." 24 But he answered and said to them, *"I am not sent except to the sheep that have strayed from the house of Israel."* 25 But she came and worshiped him [better:  bowed down to him, maybe in worship] and she said, "My Lord, help me." 26 He said to her, "It is not good to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs." 27 But she said, "Yes, my lord, even the dogs eat from the crumbs that fall from their master's table and they live." 28 But then Yeshua said to her, "O woman, great is your faith; it will be done for you as you will." And her daughter was healed from that moment.

Mark 7 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/mark/7.htm
24 Yeshua arose from there and came to the coast of Tyre and of Sidon, and he entered a certain house and he did not want anyone to know him and he could not be hidden. 25 For immediately a certain woman heard about him, whose daughter had a foul spirit, and she came falling before his feet. 26 But she was *a pagan woman from Phoenicia of Syria,* and she was begging him to cast out the demon from her daughter. 27 And Yeshua said to her, *"Let the children be filled first, for it is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs."* 28 But she answered and said to him, "Yes, my lord, but even the dogs from under the table eat the children's crumbs." 29 Yeshua said to her, "Go; because of this saying the demon has gone out from your daughter." 30 And she went to her house and found her daughter lying in bed, and the demon had been cast out of her.

"He did indeed come to his own people first"
Some of whom accepted him as being the promised Messiah, while the bulk of his own people rejected him (I'm looking at Zechariah 12:10-11, 13:1-2, and especially 13:7-9.  Chapter 14 looks interesting.)

Matthew 23 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
36 Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that murdered The Prophets and stoned those who were sent to it! How many times have I desired to gather your children, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing! 38 Behold, your house is left to you desolate!

"He did indeed come to his own people first, but he also always showed a willingness to engage with gentiles"
Jesus also told the subversive story about the good _Samaritan_, and mentioned:

Luke 4 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/luke/4.htm
24 But he said, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is not a Prophet who is received in his town." 25 "For truly I say to you that many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah the Prophet, when the heavens were shut for three years and six months, and there was great hunger in all the land." 26 "And *Elijah was not sent to one of them except to Tsarepta of Tsidon unto a widow woman."* 27 "And there were many lepers among Israel in the days of Elisha the Prophet and *not one of them was purified except Naaman the Syrian."* 28 And when they who were in the synagogue heard these things, they were all filled with rage. 29 And they arose and they thrust him outside of the city and they brought him unto the ridge of the mountain on which the city was built to cast him from the precipice. 30 But he passed through the midst of them and he departed.

/////////////////////////////////
"It is quite possible that words are attributed to god YHVH that he didn't actually say. There is a strong suggestion that he said that scribes had indeed lied in the writing of the old testament.
In regards to burning to death as a punishment for law breaking: Leviticus 20:14, 21:9, Genesis 38:24, Joshua 7:15 - 24-25. I can provide you with at least another half a dozen from the top of my head and I'm pretty sure there are many more.  Once again I ask you, are these the punishments of a god of love?"

"Malachi 3:2-3.
How could i have been so blind??
The fire is truly a purification process. And surely, these verses also confirm my suspicions that the Levitical law was added to by the Levites. Why else would Malachi directly refer to the sons of Levi in these verses?!
Oh Lord Jesus. I pray with tears of true contrition that you forgive me for my blindness and I pray for every other soul that has lived in the anger and torment that I have lived in for so many years because of lack of understanding.
I am so sorry.  .... the lord has once again called me back onto the narrow path.
Time to go off to the woods, get on my knees and pray from the heart. I feel the presence of the holy spirit all around me for the first time in so, so many years. Tears are pouring down my face like a waterfall. Tears of pure relief and joy.
All brought about by holy FIRE."

//////////////////////////////////
That's beautiful.
"appreciate prayers"
Happy to do so. I'll also mention you to my small group for prayer.

"the Lord is true. He told me as a wee lad that he would never leave my side"
He can't, given that he's in you.  He's in everybody whether they know it or not, relentlessly knocking away at hearts awaiting a 'Come in.'  And he's got an infinite length of time to work with.

"take myself off somewhere quiet for as long as it takes and listen to him.... spend time in prayer, away from the world so that i can listen without distraction"
Sounds wise. 

"I feel like Eliyahu must of felt when our Abba called him in the cave. 'What doest though here, Eliyahu'.... Time to come back fully into the light, stop running and do what is required of me, whatever that may be"
I'm reminded of Jonah (meaning Dove in Aramaic, and I assume also Hebrew).
"Do what is required of me" might be better recast as 'Do things I _get_ to do in partnership with/ working with my heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit-- and we have fun doing it.'

DavidFord

Were the early church fathers who were universalists 'heretics'?

_The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume 12_, edited by Albert Hauck, et. al., pg. 96
https://books.google.com/books?id=n2EhAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA96
Under the instruction of these great teachers many other theologians believed in universal salvation; and indeed the whole Eastern Church (q.v.) until after 500 A.D. was inclined to it. In the West this doctrine had fewer adherents and was never accepted by the Church at large. In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria [see ALEXANDRIA, SCHOOL OF], Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is unknown. Doederlein says that "In proportion as any man was eminent in learning in Christian antiquity, the more did he cherish and defend the hope of the termination of future torments." In the dark ages Universalism almost disappeared....

"So all the verses that use 'olam' and that translate into God is eternal, the eternal God, should be the age-during God"
2 examples of such verses?
I'm not sure what Youngs Literal means by "age-during."

"verse says: 'these to eternal life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt'"
I'd render it as,
'these to the world/age of life,' and
'these to shame and the world/age of contempt.'

Daniel 12:2 interlinear, https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/12-2.htm
And many of those who sleep of the earth in the dust shall awake
these to life
5769/ ō w lām/ עוֹלָ֔ם/ everlasting
and these to shame [and] contempt
5769/ ō w lām/ עוֹלָֽם/ everlasting

"Ananias and Sapphira-after lying to the Holy Spirit"
Did God forgive Ananias and Sapphira for lying to the Holy Spirit?  If 'yes,' was that forgiveness granted before, or after, God killed them?
What leads you to the conclusion that God killed them?-- upon what basis/grounds did you conclude that?

"it is very deceitful to pretend like God's anger doesn't exist when there are numerous accounts of it in the Bible"
Jesus was God in the flesh.  What are all the instances of which you're aware of Jesus being angry?

"as much as I know God is abounding in great love, I also know he has a great and terrible wrath"
In your view, is it OK for people to have "great and terrible wrath," just as "God... has a great and terrible wrath"?

Luke 6:32-36 (NIV)
32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

"anyone who reads Acts 5 can tell that Ananias and Sapphira died no ordinary death"
Agreed.

"Unless you intentionally blind your eyes to what is written there, I cannot help you"
It sounds like you're unable to justify your claim that God killed Ananias and Sapphira. 
Here are some more deaths that were far from "ordinary"-- do you think God did these killings?:

2 Kings 1:10 (NIV), https://biblehub.com/2_kings/1-10.htm
Elijah answered the captain, "If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!" Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men.

"what do you say about the Angel that struck Herold?"
I don't know what to make of it. 
Who do you think prompted King David to sin by taking a census?  (satan? God?)

2 Samuel 24
1 Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."  10 And David's heart condemned him after he had numbered the people. So David said to the Lord, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done; but now, I pray, O Lord, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly."
1 Chronicles 21
1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.  7 And God was displeased with this thing; therefore He struck Israel. 8 So David said to God, "I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing; but now, I pray, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly."

"Bible may not contain many passages showing Jesus as angry"
Jesus was God in the flesh.  What are all the passages of which you're aware of Jesus being angry?

"but Jesus himself does talk of a coming time when the righteous (those Justified by the blood of Jesus) and the unrighteous shall be seperated, with the unrighteous being separated into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
Is there anger involved in that separation?  Any sadness?

Matthew 25:41-46 (based on Younan's translation from the original Aramaic, http://dukhrana.com)
41. Then he will also say to those that are at his left,
You cursed, go away from me l'nura-d'l'ailm [to-the fire of-to-the world/age, i.e. to the world/age of fire],
that which is prepared for Akelqartza and his angels.
42. For I was hungry
and you did not give to me (food) to eat.
And I was thirsty
and you did not give me drink.
43. And I was a stranger
and you did not take me in.
And I was naked
and you did not cover me.
And I was sick and I was in prison
and you did not visit me.'
44. Even then they will answer and say,
'Maran [our Lord], when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and (did) not minister to you?'
45. Then he will answer and say to them,
'Amain I say to you, inasmuch as you did not (do) to one of these little ones,
you also did not do to me.'
46. And these will depart l'thshniqa-d'l'ailm [to-torment of-to-the world/age, i.e. to the world/age of torment],
and the zadiqa [righteous] l'khia-d'l'ailm [to-life of-to-the world/age, i.e. to the world/age of life]."

"you disregard old testament passages talking about the judgement of God"
I agree God makes judgments.  We're discussing whether God makes judgments in anger.

"Here are new testament ones for you.... If this doesn't do it, then I don't know what will"
In what you quoted, where did you see any mention of anger?

"everlasting fire"
"you think God can't do worse?"
All of God's judgments have a positive outcome, and are superior to man's attempts at criminal justice.
Saddam Hussein and Hitler tortured certain people for a finite length of time.
In your view, who is the bigger, meaner torturer: 
Saddam Hussein, or God?  Hitler, or God?

Jesus is the role model.  Jesus' words and deeds show us what sort of behavior God wants from people.  In no way did what Jacob's sons do comport with Jesus' example.

Signs for the definitive end of the Old Covenant era appear in Mt 24 and parallel passages, and Revelation.

"purpose of the church"
2 Corinthians 5 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/2_corinthians/5.htm
17 All that is in The Messiah is therefore The New Creation; the old order has passed away to such. 18 And everything has become new from God -- he who reconciled us to himself in The Messiah, and he has given us the Ministry of the reconciliation. 19 For God was in The Messiah- he who reconciled the universe with his Majesty, and he has not accounted their sins to them and has placed in us our own message of the reconciliation. 20 We are Ambassadors therefore in the place of The Messiah, and as if he who is God requested of you by us; in the place of The Messiah, we beseech you therefore: "Be reconciled to God." 21 For he who had not known sin made himself to become sin in your place, that we would become the righteousness of God in him.

All those children who were aborted, or who died young, have glorified bodies and reside in heaven. 
Brad Jersak had a woman who'd aborted 2 talk with Jesus, and Jesus showed her her 2 children.  They were in heaven with Jesus, and had desired to remain as young children rather than grow up.  Jesus told the woman she could visit her 2 kids whenever she wanted. See
_IN: Incarnation & Inclusion, Abba & Lamb_ (2019), 184pp., 140-146
https://www.amazon.com/Incarnation-Inclusion-Abba-Lamb/dp/1082461733/

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"So what does it mean for him to tell us to depart, he never knew us, and how will he remain unchangeable if he reversed his judgment?"
Do you think that from humanity's perspective, God sometimes changes his mind?

2 Kings 20 (NIV), https://biblehub.com/niv/2_kings/20.htm
1 In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, "This is what the Lord says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover."
2 Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the Lord, 3 "Remember, Lord, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes." And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
4 Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the Lord came to him:
5 "Go back and tell Hezekiah, the ruler of my people, 'This is what the Lord, the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you. On the third day from now you will go up to the temple of the Lord. 6 I will add fifteen years to your life. And I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria. I will defend this city for my sake and for the sake of my servant David.' "
7 Then Isaiah said, "Prepare a poultice of figs." They did so and applied it to the boil, and he recovered.

'Thrown is the Greek word "bollo" which means to "cast away without further thought as to where it lands." '
Do you think God has the power to take cut-off olive branches and graft them "into their own olive tree"?
Do you agree with Romans 11:26 that "all Israel will be saved"?

Romans 11 (NIV), https://biblehub.com/niv/romans/11.htm
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved.

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For Mt 24:30 and Rev 1:7, "tribes of the earth" should be "tribes of the land" (as in, the 12 tribes of the land of Israel). 
Many "of the earth" in Revelation should be "of the land" (Revelation speaks of horrors that descended on Israel before the end of A.D. 70, and not about calamities spanning the entire globe).

'Race' as in the phrases below doesn't belong in the NT.
Syrophoenician by race
Cyprus by race
Joseph's race
took advantage of our race
Pontus by race
Alexandrian by race
you are a chosen race

DavidFord

Without the possibility of not-loving, there can't be love.
If God made Adam and Eve, and they _had_ to 'love' him because that's what they were programmed to do, and there was never a possibility of not-loving him, and the _only_ option was to 'love' him, then their loving him _couldn't_ happen.
God created humans to be and to mature as sons of God.  God didn't envision robots programmed to serve God.
Billions have suffered pain, but God is developing/rearing/training sons of God.

"God's plan is perfect"
God has numerous plans.  Whatever humans do, God has a plan for proceeding from there.  It's backup plan upon backup plan upon backup plan.  God has an end goal in mind, and human successes and human failures are all a part of the road toward that ultimate end goal.  The all-powerful, all-knowing, infinitely-loving God will get what he wants.

Mike Parsons says that God told him this:
"The restoration of all things is not Our ultimate desire but it is the way Our original intention for oneness can be achieved. Once all things are restored, then the journey continues into the ages to come; and My sons can become ascended fathers who can be like We are. Restoration first begins with the truth of who We are unveiled. Love, in Perichoresis and Trinitarian truth restored, leads to inclusion being revealed as a consequence of love's passion and zeal for relationship with our children."

"My sons can become ascended fathers who can be like We are" is similar to a remark by Sadhu Sundar Singh. Parsons is a guy on youtube.

https://freedomarc.blog/2011/09/21/welcome-to-freedom-arc/
On this blog we post content including the teaching of Mike Parsons (photo above) and others....

https://www.youtube.com/c/MikeParsonsFreedomAR/playlists

_My Journey Beyond Beyond: An autobiographical record of deep calling to deep in pursuit of intimacy with God_ (2018) by Mike Parsons 
https://www.amazon.com/My-Journey-Beyond-Autobiographical-Intimacy/dp/1789630088/

Because of what Jesus did, God forgave everybody's sin.  Those who have believed in/ trusted in Jesus have accessed/ gotten hold of/ appropriated that forgiveness.
It's as if everybody on earth was given a million dollars, held at a local bank; only those who have withdrawn money from their million dollar account have made use of/ accessed that million dollars.
Because of what Jesus did, every human is immensely rich.  Unfortunately, only a fraction of people have even an inkling of the immense riches made available to them.

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"it's a place of never ending torture"
Evidence for the never-ending part?  In terms of scriptural evidence, the situation is this:
never-ending torture < annihilationism < universalism

Universal Restoration verses
https://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/universal-restoration-verses/

"Jesus himself spoke of a place called hell"
I agree there is a hellish realm.  I'd add there are several hellish realms.

"God is more merciful than we think"
Indeed.
"there are fallen angels on this earth who belong to Satan"
Everything created belongs to its Creator.
Mike Parsons has released love to and forgiven 3 dark angels, including one called Destiny Robber, and now those 3 are serving God. Destiny Robber became Destiny Restorer.

"God wants all to come to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4)"
Indeed.  And God is relentless in that pursuit, and has an infinite length of time to work with.

At one point, I almost became a Catholic.  If I became anything these days, it'd be Eastern Orthodox.

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"mixture of Law plus Grace"
The Old Covenant was definitively ended in A.D. 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple.

"Rule in heavenly"
Do you agree with this?:

Ephesians 2:6 (NIV)
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Andrew

I haven't really found any red flags with Mike Parsons - as I discussed red flags for the Mystical movement in The Futuristic Maze thread - he actually stated that before he found the mystical path; he started reading out loud Bible verses over his life and this method allowed him to receive more and more insight into the verses.

DavidFord

Quote from: Andrew on August 18, 2020, 07:45:54 PM
I haven't really found any red flags with Mike Parsons
Sounds good.

Quotehe started reading out loud Bible verses over his life and this method allowed him to receive more and more insight into the verses
Neat.

DavidFord

A neat video:
https://anchorednorth.org/enlightened/

Hellish realms exist.  Many are suffering badly in those hellish realms right now.
Nobody will suffer in hellish realms for an infinite length of time, because eventually the people there will be preached to by Jesus and by humans residing on earth, and the suffering will end.
Some of the information about the spiritual world uncovered by New Age people is true.

Here's a healing miracle of tinnitus, and a healing of back pain and of a detached kneecap, that look credible to me:

Todd White - Miracle at the Shawarma Shop (ISRAEL Part 8 ) - Jan 6, 2018
https://youtu.be/R71UJ_E7CwE

3:00+:
Must Watch Dramatic New York Healing and Salvation - Oct 20, 2013 - Thomas Fischer
https://youtu.be/w_b2B15037U

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Abram aka Abraham got life, despite not being an Israelite.
Genesis 15 (Berean Study Bible), biblehub
6 Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness.
7 The LORD also told him, ?I am the LORD, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to possess.?

Despite not being an Israelite, Abraham had righteousness accredited to him. God gives life to the dead, including Abraham. Ultimately, _all_ humans will believe in Yeshua the Meshikha, and have abundant life-- including you.

Romans 4 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), biblehub
3 For what do the Scriptures say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." ....
5 But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness. ....
9 Is this blessing therefore on the circumcision or on the uncircumcision? For we say "His faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness." 10 How therefore was it accounted to him, in circumcision or in uncircumcision? It was not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 For he received circumcision as a sign and the seal of the righteousness of his faith, when in uncircumcision, that he would be the father to all those who believe among the uncircumcision, that it would be reckoned to them also for righteousness.
....
16 Because of this, he would be justified by faith, which is by grace, and The Promise would be sure to all his seed, not to the one who is of The Written Law only, but also to the one who is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 According to what is written: "I have appointed you a father to the multitude of the nations", before God, in whom you believed, who gives life to the dead, and he calls those who are not as though they are.
....
22 Therefore, it was accounted to him for righteousness. 23 And this was not written for his sake alone that his faith was accounted for righteousness, 24 But also for our sake, for he is going to reckon it to us also, we who believe in The One who raised Our Lord Yeshua The Messiah from the grave, 25 And who was handed over because of our sins; and he arose to justify us.

DavidFord

_The Jesus Secret:  Who I Am_ by Daniel Yordy (2007), 197pp. 
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Secret-Who-Am/dp/147913208X/
On 70:
If there is one lost, I do not rest until I have found that one.  Do not think that hard hearts or cold minds can stop Me, or sin or wickedness or evil.  Violence and murder cannot hold Me back. Death does not prevent Me.  The gates of Hades do not stand against My assault.  I never stop.
I never stop until that last, final one is found.  Until I have reached that final frozen heart and it melts before Me and says, "Jesus, You are Lord."  I AM the Relentless One.
I live in your heart.

DavidFord

_The Ecstatic Journey:  Walking the Mystical Path in Everyday Life_ by Sophy Burnham (1999), 323pp. 
https://www.amazon.com/Ecstatic-Journey-Walking-Mystical-Everyday/dp/0345424794/
https://www.bookfinder.com
On 212-214:
Here is the revelation of another friend of mine, seen while "tripping" on LSD.   ....  A moment later:  "I was in heaven.  I was on a cloud, certainly no longer on Earth.
"I remember saying, 'I want to see God.'  There was a Voice or Knowledge over to my left.  It said, _I am God_.
"I turned and saw a bright, BRIGHT light!
I was quite matter-of-fact.  'Why am I alive?' I asked.  'What is the point of my life?'

"Then I was taken to the edge of the cloud and shown a Vision.  I saw a long rope, and Jesus at the front of it had the rope over his shoulder, and he was pulling humanity by the rope.  Humanity in the form of thousands of people stretched out in a long V, like a cone or the point of a pencil if Jesus were the lead at the tip.  I couldn't see the end of this huge mass of people.  I was up toward the point, and all of us were pulling Humanity toward this.... toward God!  Toward the light!

But the Light was on the cloud with me.  There were other Beings up on the cloud, full of light.  I don't remember features.  They were separate from the Light Source.  They moved around.  I felt that one of them looked over the edge of the cloud with me.

"This cone, this mass of humanity, was coming through a narrow cleft or gorge carved between high cliffs.  I was also down there, fairly near the front of the cone, helping to pull it to a lighter, happier place.
"I had no more questions to ask God.  God was in the Light where there is no Time.  Then I had to come back into my body, which had now moved to a chair in the kitchen.  I kept repeating, 'I don't want to go back.'
But I was given the information that without a body you can't take action on the earth.  Therefore I had to return.  It was emotionally painful, sad.  I felt constricted in my body.  I didn't like it.  I loved the spacious, open feeling of heaven."