It's start this morning, my good friend, Rhoda, (I love her) a christian go-to-church taking my wife to her church, I been to her church many time last year but quit because I don't believe in Hell, My wife quit there too, the reason she go back is not for the church but to see her friend there and greet them and see how they are doing, so they left this morning but before they left, Rhoda said things very uncomfortable and I felt my spirit trembling with fear and shaking in my body, why? Because of this:
Before I explain why, let me explain my grandmother, 86 year old, dementia problems, forgetting thing, sometime she think I lived in miami (I live in wisconsin now) and Rhoda checking up with grandma every week to make sure she okay, she live 12 mile away from me but I cannot drive because I don't have a driving liscease so Rhoda help by checking up to make sure because grandma keep forgetting, she fell, she have delusional, like seeing some ghost, now she told Rhoda that the spirits are living at her house now and they having a baby now in her house (oh man...she is so lost now) sometime, she doesn't eat, she fell and almost pass out because she doesn't eat alot, she feed the animals more than herself, she even feed the rats outside, she once hate the rat now care for them, her brain is truly lost, all I can do is to make sure she is okay and stay home and Rhoda let me know anything happen
there, now you know my grandma's problem, but this morning, Rhoda send a chillin' evil spirit in my body left me shaking ( my hand shaking right now.) what she does is the most evil thing I ever image, what to expect from a christian's most popular motto of all time for 1000 year which I hate the most:
she asked me this:
"Do you think she is saved? Do you think she go to heaven?"
HOW COULD SHE!?!?!?!
STUPID
WHY?!?!
MY GRANDMA SEND TO HELL BECAUSE SHE NOT SAVED OR WHAT?!
My grandmother do believe in God, she is part-catholic and part-christian (mix)
BUT HOW COULD SHE?!?!?! IF GOD SEND MY GRANDMOTHER TO HELL, I WILL GO DOWN TO HELL WITH MY ARMOUR OF LOVE AND GRACE AND PULL HER OUT AND WE GO TO OUR PLACE OURSELVE IN A BETTER PLACE WHERE EVERYONE IS SAVED AND LOVE AND LEARNED WHAT WE HAVE LEARN FROM GRACE AND UNDERSTAND
HOW COULD SHE?!?!?!
Quote from: IceDash on October 18, 2009, 06:15:27 PM
"Do you think she is saved? Do you think she go to heaven?"
WHY?!?!
MY GRANDMA SEND TO HELL BECAUSE SHE NOT SAVED OR WHAT?!
My grandmother do believe in God, she is part-catholic and part-christian (mix)
IF GOD SEND MY GRANDMOTHER TO HELL, I WILL GO DOWN TO HELL WITH MY ARMOUR OF LOVE AND GRACE AND PULL HER OUT AND WE GO TO OUR PLACE OURSELVE IN A BETTER PLACE WHERE EVERYONE IS SAVED AND LOVE AND LEARNED WHAT WE HAVE LEARN FROM GRACE AND UNDERSTAND
Hi! IceDash
I would like to comment on your thoughts above:
Ummmm, the short answer is this: No, your GrandMother is not about to be sent to Hell 'er whatever at her passing.
Actually, absolutely no human being is sent to Hell by God.
Absolutely no one!
So, your GrandMother (at her passing from this visible world to the invisible world) will not find herself in 'Hell'. You can be absolutely sure of this.
Now that we have that said, here's the long story:
Remember that scriptural narrative about the swine herd going off the cliff into the sea? Well, a re-reading of those verses might explain things a bit better for you.
Luke 8:26-32 "And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee. And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in [any] house, but in the tombs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness). And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them. Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked."
And again:
Matthew 8:28-32 "And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters".
This story/event is a visible (earthly) picture to show an invisible (heavenly) reality. After Jesus ascended to heaven, the disciples of Jesus remembered this event; but then then their rememberance was quickened by the Holy Spirit and their minds were equipped to comprehend the invisible things.
The first thing we notice with the verses is that the devils recognized Jesus for who He really was: a Son of God; something which only a handful of His human followers barely suspected at this point.
The second point I wish to make is that you should learn why the devils specifically asked, "Did you come to torment us before the time"?
We know that those who have become acquainted with the Gospel of Jesus have passed from death to life. John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life". From the time of the resurrection of Jesus, all who are Born Again do not enter Hades, (the realm of death). Rather, they enter the Holy City. Therefore, those who are acquainted with the words of Jesus and believe in His Gospel HAVE (presently) everlasting life ... HAVE (presently) passed from the realm of the dead and are PRESENTLY seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
Those who have received Jesus and have been born again have been resurrected from out of this situation of death and out of the power of darkness and placed into the Kingdom of the Son of God's love. As far as their physical life is concerned, they live 'away' from the Lord, that is, under the control (shadow) of death. However, (and most importantly!), as far as their inner man is concerned, they live in the heavenly sphere, ("heavenly places").
When a Christian dies, (when he lays down his earthly tabernacle), his inner man remains in the new Jerusalem. A Christian does not see death! True, Christians remain subject to mortality and can fall ill and be injured because of living under the 'shadow' of death. This will continue until the church has reached perfection in spirit, soul AND BODY; for "in the twinkling of an eye" the body will change in a point of time at the coming of the Lord.
Hades is known as the 'realm of the dead'.
The Scripture says that the soul who sins will die. This means that so far as their inner being (soul and spirit) is concerned, the person remains under the control of death and the powers of death. Everyone who does not have a share in the Gospel of Jesus is spiritually 'dead'. Physically, your GrandMother is now alive; but inwardly she is dead in sins and trespasses. Because she has not heard the unadulterated Gospel of Jesus, she is outside an intimate spiritual fellowship with God and cannot develop into a truly spiritual being. The spiritually 'dead' abide in Hades.
But this does NOT mean that your GrandMother is evil or anything as such. It does not mean that the Heavenly Father does not love her. It simply means that your GrandMother has not yet passed from death to life; is not yet presently living in the kingdom of God. Instead, your GrandMother (her spirit and soul) presently remain in the realm of the dead (Hades); and will remain there even at the time that her physical body can no longer contain her spirit and soul.
During this present time that your GrandMother's physical body continues to exist, she will at best be able to maintain herself in this visible world as a good and honorable natural person; but still remains under the seduction and pressure of the powers of sin and sickness. Consequently, her spirit and soul (inner man) continues to be hindered and damaged.
For those located in the realm of death, the time in which they are able to work has come to an end. They remain in Hades being guarded by their keepers awaiting the day of their resurrection. To such as your GrandMother applies: "In the place where the tree falls there it will lie". While she will not sustain further injury, neither will she experience further spiritual development. At her physical death, she rests from her earthly labors and enters her allotted place at the end of the days, (Dan12:13).
When finally her mortal body is destroyed by the influence of the powers of sickness and death, her inner man (soul and spirit) remains where she is presently, namely in the realm of death, (Hades). The realm of death should not be pictured as a place, but rather as a situation. A situation in which the inner man is encompassed by the powers of death.
In Romans 5:14 we read that death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgressions of Adam. So there are those who did not sin as Adam had sinned and yet remained under the control of death.
Among this group are the little children who do not even know their left hand from the right and who are yet subjected to death and may even die at an early age.
Another group that comes to mind are the mentally challenged, mentally handicapped; the groaning creation which had no possibility/ability to choose between good and evil. Because they are unable to receive the Gospel of Jesus and to experience a renewal of the mind or regeneration, they have not been transplanted into the Kingdom of God. Rather, their life is limited to the earth, and there death is in control. Death encompasses them like a fog. It robs them of all spiritual insight. For lack of spiritual development, they remain in the realm of death when they die.
In the realm of death (Hades) is the entire multitude of unregenerate mankind.
We think of the righteous who followed the voice of conscience during their life on earth and who therefore acted in keeping with the laws of God had created in them. Their righteousness was related to doing good on earth. But they did not know the gospel of Jesus Christ.
As unspiritual people, they are similar to the many righteous of the Old Covenant whose laws and ceremonies belong to the 'dispensation of death'; meaning: that these laws were valid only under the reign of death. The saving dispensation of the Holy Spirit still being unknown. The limit of their righteousness lay in the visible world. When they died, their works could not follow after them because they had never worked in the heavenly places.
And we think of your GrandMother too. A lady who tried her best to live a just and fruitful life on this earth. A lady who was kind and merciful.
However, this is IMPORTANT: your GrandMother's name is among untold millions whose names are recorded in the Book of Life.
Now to explain a little more about Hades / the Realm of Death:
We should acknowledge at the outset that Hades was not prepared for the devil and his angels. When a person is "united" with unclean spirits (as is illustrated by the demon possessed man at Gadarenes), the unclean spirits can be said to be 'attached' to him. If this man had died in such a spiritual state, both he AND the spirits attached to him would have entered the realm of death. This is why the demons frantically asked Jesus: "Art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" In Hades the demons no longer have a duty to fulfill and become inactive. That is why they are afraid of being cast into Hades; for there they will be stopped from functioning. This inactivity they experience as pain. For that reason they requested Jesus not to send them to the abyss (Hades) and thereby torment them before the time, (Matt 8:29 & Luke 8:31).
Those who are united with evil (having attached themselves to unclean spirits) enter into the dark side of the realm of death accompanied by their unclean spirits. This explains why the rich man in Hades was under torment by the demons who were united/attached to his inner man and which accompanied him. The rich man had not listened to the voice of the law God created in him which says that we have to be charitable towards our fellow men. He had not fed the hungry, had not given the thirsty to drink, had not helped the weak nor comforted the sick. He had failed to do what many natural people do; such as the Samaritan of the parable.
In the story of Lazarus and the rich man we read of an unbridgeable chasm. It is impossible to go from one side to the other. This situation remains unchanged until the last judgment. From the great white throne it will be said to those who remain united with the demons even in the realm of the dead: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels", (Matt 25:41).
God has never cursed man. Man is not intended for the eternal fire or the Second Death. Cursed are those who love iniquity, who refuse to relinquish the evil spirits, who willingly attach themselves to unclean powers and enthusiastically make themselves available to Satan and his kingdom. When the devil and his angels arrive at their destination in the Lake of Fire, those who are united with them from among mankind will accompany them. (It is not for nothing that the Bible says that some are "possessed" by the evil one. When the evil powers are cast into the Lake of Fire, they demand to take their "possessions" with them).
During this present time, (before the 'Millennium' when Satan himself is consigned to the Abyss), evil spirits are cast into the Abyss by the holy angels at the request or command of the child of God who acts in accordance with his Master's words: "They will cast out evil spirits", (Mark 16:17). This is how the evil spirits are made powerless and are condemned to inactivity in the First Death. From there they will go into the Second Death at the Last Judgment. The Second Death is the Lake of Fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; NOT FOR MAN.
In Hades, (the realm of the dead), there are many whose names are written in 'the book of life', but "if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire", (Rev 20:15). There are sinners 'unto the Second Death", and sinners not "unto the Second Death".
We read in the Bible that all whose names are written in the Book of Life are 'relinquished' by the sea, by Death, and by Hades. Hades had to relinquish all the people it had kept from among all nations and tongues because Jesus is the mighty conqueror who said: "I have the keys of Death and Hades".
At the Millennium, (in which the groaning creation of earth will receive a share in the liberating and regenerating power of the Gospel of Jesus), the deceased righteous of the Old Covenant and who are in the New Jerusalem, will partake of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, "And all these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect", (Heb 11:39-40).
The last category of nations which will have to be led into the gates of the New Jerusalem are those who rose from the dead. All of these are people who never knew the gospel of Jesus Christ; including your GrandMother. On earth they lived more or less after the laws of God instilled within them; as Paul wrote of certain Gentiles who, although not having the law of God, yet did by nature what the law commands",(Rom 2:14-16).
So, we clearly see that one of God's qualities which He especially seeks to reveal through man is His loving kindness. Not even the holy angels have this quality of God; only in man is the image of God present. At the Last Judgment this quality is used as the standard.
It is the proof of charity and love towards God and fellow man which is the requirement of the law. In His first Sermon on the Mount, the Lord said: "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy." Mercy is a quality which is abundantly available in God, for He is full of loving-kindness and compassion. On several occasions the Bible says that the man Jesus 'had compassion'. God's loving kindness also shows in the fact that our heavenly Father wants everyone to be saved and that no one perish.
At the Last Resurrection it will apply: "For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy; yet mercy triumphs over judgment", (James 2:13). Those who have shown mercy, however, will say to the Lord at the last judgment: "When did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothed thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee? And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did this to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me",(Matt 25: 38-40).
People in whom the image of God is not entirely lost, still have a place in the thoughts of God, for they listen to the law in them. In the judgment their conscience may witness for them for it proved not to be seared with a hot iron. They would have liked to do more but their spiritual power was insufficient and they knew they were poor in spirit. But they did what they could. They were merciful and had the same purpose at heart as God, namely to help and to save. We also see that our Lord identifies with the human race, not only with the great but also with the small among men. He testifies that He Himself benefits by the love shown to His brethren, great and small.
God will not abandon His creation. Even the smallest and the least significant among his creatures will finally receive mercy. We are reminded of the sufferings of Job. This righteous man was oppressed by Satan who robbed him of all he had. But from the end, which the Lord made to follow, we see that the Lord is compassionate and merciful, (James 5:11).
In the last judgment we see the same. We think of the suffering of those who are oppressed by the devil for as long as they lived; the mentally ill, the imbeciles, the retarded, all who are enslaved and injured in soul or spirit. They were incapable of receiving the gospel of the Kingdom of heaven. Throughout the centuries, the church also proved unable and insufficiently equipped to deliver and heal them.
The saving gospel of Jesus Christ was not preached and therefore not practiced either. What is the expectation of an average Christian about the future of a child who dies young? What is the eternal destination of human life that is murdered in the womb? The unborn fetus will not perish for ever, together with those who do not see fit to acknowledge God, who do unnatural things because they have been given up to a base mind and improper conduct. God is a good God, and He will save whatever He can.
So with regards to your GrandMother, an inner spiritual healing/restoration is required through the Gospel of Jesus for all those who are now recorded in the Book of Life and who have to be transferred to the Book of Life of The Lamb, which is in the New Jerusalem. Those who have been subject to the shadow of death will not be lost for all eternity because they did not seek their own humiliation and they did not want to serve the devices of the evil one. These will all rise from the dead and live.
This is the consolation for those of us who have unbelieving parents, relatives and friends: that 'their' dead will be given back to them even if salvation fails to come now.
thank, I know everything what I read, I just don't understand why christian do this all the times when someone about to die or haven't heard of Jesus
The point is, why christians who understand grace and love telling people if someone are saved or not is like saying, "God will throw your mom in hell" they treating God just like hitler, no doubt, it the same saying like those jewish who are hiding from hitler, "If you go out, Hitler's trooper will find you and kill you!"
IT THE SAME!
It sick!
The trooper never said he likes Jews. the trooper "only" kills the Jew once. That makes Father even worse.
Jesus had it figured out:
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
:cloud9: The comment was very insensitive to say the least, but that insensitivity is bred in them by the ET and rapture mindset to begin with. Blessings....