Any information, insight and/or opinions that any of you may have in regards as to just how much influence non-canonical and/or apocryphal books/scripture may have had in inspiring or helped to institutionaliza the harrowing hell teaching(s) in the many churches?
I.e. The Apocalypse of Peter or the Gospel of Nicodemus?
http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/TheGehennaOfFire.html
Quote from: Tom on October 02, 2014, 04:05:17 AM
http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/TheGehennaOfFire.html
I liked this link! but of course being somewhat obsessive compulsive about the word.. I cannot resist adding my 2 cents worth.. (though I did mostly scan the page)
when speaking of tartarus the author quotes "messengers" (angels) "who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, Yahweh has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day" (Jude 6).. "imperceptible bonds"! perfect way of putting it, i.e., translation! I think of those 'bonds' as their consequent im-Perfection (God being Perfection and Life) .. and once upon becoming imperfect they are in bonds awaiting 'judgment' because they cannot change their course and make their selves perfect, what with being imperfect.. They are trapped... Gloom.. bonds of darkness...
About the Hinnom Valley, that was good ...did the author mention that Gehenna is also where the last battle of mankind will occur, Armegeddon? a fire not quenched/put out.. doesn't say never..
..the gnashing of teeth as equated with "outer darkness" :thumbsup: (the state of rising still in one's sins? 2nd resurrection, and the analogy of "outside the city" of rev 22)
All believed references to 'hell' I believe are easily explained..
-- two more.. "He descended to the lower parts of the earth".. the dust of the grave..
-- "He preached
via the Spirit to those outside the ark
while it was being built.." Not He went to 'hell' and preached to those in 'hell' from the flood.. 1 Peter 3;18,19
..there's also the olde englishe which I heard or read would say "helle the potatoes" meaning bury..
Quote from: RaiderGonzo on October 02, 2014, 04:01:16 AM
Any information, insight and/or opinions that any of you may have in regards as to just how much influence non-canonical and/or apocryphal books/scripture may have had in inspiring or helped to institutionaliza the harrowing hell teaching(s) in the many churches?
I.e. The Apocalypse of Peter or the Gospel of Nicodemus?
:Chinscratch: hmmm, I don't know! I haven't read much of them before I was turned off to them.. :smile: strike me as weird.. though the apocrapha, I believe, is more history.. with a little embellishment..
'legend' or rumor has it, it was the Roman Catholic Church of the day (early) which encouraged the vision of 'hell' though it is, was pagan lore.. greek underworld.. persephone..? and of course the horror of the fire sacrifices to Molech.. (of which God said "it never came up in MY mind!" .. didn't originate from Him!)
Where did it come from? might take reading those early church fathers..? it would be interesting, would it, to find the first reference to such a thing! (As you have said, not the ones thought to be in the canon of Scripture)
Would sure be a good thing to be able to point to.. a before and after thing.. :smile:
Somebody may have already researched it.. could find it upon googling it? I may try that tomorrow..
Google search , looked it up http://www.ntcanon.org/writings.shtml (http://www.ntcanon.org/writings.shtml)
For me , I believe knowledge does "puff up" humanity and also wisdom causes sorrow , this is what usually divides and separates many from one another :sigh:
But according to Paul , there is the gospels the Testimony of Jesus Christ AS the Spirit of prophecy and New Testament , that teaches Jesus Christ and Him crucified
and its the perfect bond of perfection /completeness , Whole and entire and found only in your relationship with Him that matters most That Love in Him and Him in you by grace in unmerited favor because the Lord is no respecter of persons
One for all and ALL for ONE and being found alive in HIM
I need something fresh clean and new in the Lord daily , not some ol message of dark times with wondering ones still in the shadows of turning
Jesus told His disciples I have many things to tell you but you could not bear them now
and the apostles after His return were given MIGHTY SPIRITUAL TRUTHS and went on suffering in the same manner of Christ bearing it
as we also must follow Him and continue to do
I put "hell" in the search bar of this page:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/churchfathers.html
And got this list, past the ads of course:
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-2665675471425577%3A4654561773&ie=UTF-8&q=hell&sa=Search#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=hell&gsc.page=1
which I'm going to investigate a little.. :smile:
..I like this list.. it looks very promising.. the names look familiar:
http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/early-church-fathers/
the text of this page - [the titles and the names/authors/early church fathers are links also]
- "The Writing of the Early Church Fathers is a 38-volume collection of writings from the first 800 years of the Church. This collection is divided into three series, Ante-Nicene, Nicene and Post-Nicene.
These files are in the public domain and may be freely used and distributed.
Ante-Nicene Fathers(a link)
Writings of the early Church fathers from the beginning of Christianity to the time of the creation of the Nicene Creed. Includes Polycarp, Tertullian, Julius Africanus, Ignatius, Origen, Clement and more.
Nicene Fathers(a link)
Writings of the Church fathers around the time of the Council of Nicaea. Includes Confessions of St. Augustine, City of God, Homilies on John, Homilies on Hebrews and more.
Post-Nicene Fathers(link)
Writings of the Church fathers after the Council of Nicaea. Includes Jerome, Cyril of Jerusalem, Basil, Ambrose, Hilary of Poiters, The Seven Ecumenical Councils and more."
I've bookmarked this so I can read up on these guys.. I'm assuming they are all in order.. starting with Polycarp, pre-nicene council.. who wrote 65 a.d.? to ? to see if he mentions or alludes to a 'hell' {where did it originate and how did it get there? and accepted?}
the other link I posted lists the gnostic type extra biblical writings, this one, the accepted (I am assuming) church fathers..
About Gehenna, I read the other day that there is a popular urban legend about Gehenna. The legend goes that Gehenna was used as a garbage dump for Jerusalem in Jesus' day, and that the garbage was always burning, as they were trying to get rid of all the rubbish and dead bodies that were thrown in there. Some UR teachers use this legend as a symbol of the cleansing fire that eventually cleansed this valley (humanity) and made it beautiful. This author said that there is no archaeological evidence of the valley having been used as a garbage dump. The area has supposedly been excavated extensively through the years. I don't know which is true, but if the legend is false, then what was the symbolism Jesus was using when he figuratively warning about Gehenna? :dontknow:
I think some folks prefer to think of "Gehenna" as "hell" especially if they're reading an inaccurate translation of scripture. I think the common misconception of "hell" is a lie perpetrated by the church. The word "hell" is an Old English word used to translate the Greek "hades," literally "unperceived" or "unseen," referring to the "unseen" state of dead souls. "Gehenna" is confused with "hell" by intentional mistranslation twelve times in the Douay-Rheims Catholic Version and the King James Version in the following verses: Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6. "Gehenna," the ravine of Hinnom southwest of Jerusalem, was used by the ancient apostate Jews to sacrifice their children in fire to Moloch, an Ammonite god. "Gehenna" was later used to burn the corpses of criminals condemned to death as it will be in the coming eon. I think the Jews to whom Christ spoke about "Gehanna" knew he was using literal language because it was a disgrace to have one's corpse cast into the city dump to be burned with the garbage. I think Christ referred to Isaiah's prophecy when he spoke of "Gehenna." "And it will come to be, as often as the new moon comes in its monthly time, And as often as the sabbath comes in its sabbath cycle, All flesh shall come to worship before Me, says Yahweh. And they will go forth and see the corpses of the mortals who transgressed against Me, For their worm shall not die, And their fire shall not be quenched, And they will become a repulsion to all flesh." (Isaiah 66:23,24)
Amen Tom!
http://www.hellisamyth.com/hell-is-a-myth.html (http://www.hellisamyth.com/hell-is-a-myth.html)
:happyclap: :happyclap: