Matthew 25:46 & Aionios

[FineLinen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=TycwY-e1pUc

[marie glen]

I liked much of what he said but think he is taking (unnecessary) liberty with the meaning of the word aion, etc.. Though His premise is correct.. imo, he needs a new way to express it however (rather than adding a new meaning to an old greek word..

But I think we can blame the translators and their habit of projecting.. extension based on a perception (accurate or inaccurate)

     

Bible > Strong's > Greek > 166

◄ 166. aiónios ►
Strong's Concordance
aiónios: agelong, eternal
Original Word: αἰώνιος, ία, ιον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: aiónios
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-o'-nee-os)
Definition: agelong, eternal
Usage: age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 166 aiṓnios (an adjective, derived from 165 /aiṓn ("an age, having a particular character and quality") – properly, "age-like" ("like-an-age"), i.e. an "age-characteristic" (the quality describing a particular age); (figuratively) the unique quality (reality) of God's life at work in the believer, i.e. as the Lord manifests His self-existent life (as it is in His sinless abode of heaven). "Eternal (166 /aiṓnios) life operates simultaneously outside of time, inside of time, and beyond time – i.e. what gives time its everlasting meaning for the believer through faith, yet is also time-independent. See 165 (aiōn).

[166 (aiṓnios) does not focus on the future per se, but rather on the quality of the age (165 /aiṓn) it relates to. Thus believers live in "eternal (166 /aiṓnios) life" right now, experiencing this quality of God's life now as a present possession. (Note the Gk present tense of having eternal life in Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47; cf. Ro 6:23.)] 

I do believe there is aionian life - life pertaining to an age..

I also liked the pointing out how the fire on Sodom and Gomorrah is not an eternally burning fire (but is our example of fiery judgment  :Chinscratch: (looking down upon it, would it look like a fiery lake? AND, it was earthly not afterlife, nor during death. :Chinscratch: )

Even though it was short I didn't watch it all.. I get way too restless a feeling watching videos..

:Peace2: :gsmile:

[FineLinen]

Dear Marie: The following quotes relating to aionios may help.

The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. R. F. Weymouth

Eternal: Greek: "aeonion," i.e., "of the ages." Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify "during," but "belong to" the aeons or ages."

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643)

Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life," then "age," "lifetime."

Elliot's Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46)

Everlasting punishment–life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios-it must be admitted that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25).

Hasting's Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. I, p. 542, art. Christ and the Gospels)

Eternity. There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity. (Vol. III, p. 369): Eternal, everlasting-nonetheless "eternal" is misleading, inasmuch as it has come in the English to connote the idea of "endlessly existing," and thus to be practically a synonym for "everlasting." But this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the variations of the noun aion from which it comes. (p. 370):

The chronoios aioniois moreover, are not to be thought of as stretching backward everlastingly, as it is proved by the pro chronon aionion of II Tim. 1:9; Titus. 1:2. (Note: pro chronon aionion means "BEFORE times eonian." Since this Scripture tells us that there was time "before" eonian, eionian cannot possibly mean eternal, for nothing can be "before" eternity.)

The large Catholic Bible dictionary, The Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible (p. 693)

ETERNITY: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gen. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as 'forever,' means in itself no more than 'for an indefinitely long period." Thus me olam does not mean 'from eternity' but 'of old' Gen. 6:4; etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam. (Note: even the Catholic translators of The Jerusalem Bible and The New American Bible have failed to heed the scholarship of their own Catholic authorities.)

Dr. R. F. Weymouth, a translator who was adept in Greek, states in The New Testament in Modern Speech (p. 657)

Eternal, Greek aeonion, i.e., of the ages: Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed does not signify, "during" but "belonging to" the aeons or ages.

Dr. Marvin Vincent, Word Studies of the New Testament (Vol. IV, p. 59).

The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective in themselves carries the sense of "endless" or "everlasting.' Anionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time.

Dr. F. W. Farrar, author of The Life of Christ and The Life and Word of St. Paul, as well as books about Greek grammar and syntax, writes in The Eternal Hope (p. 198)

In Dr. Farrar's book, Mercy and Judgment, (p. 378)

"Since aion meant 'age,' aionios means, properly, 'belonging to an age,' or 'age-long,' and anyone who asserts that it must mean 'endless' defends a position which even Augustine practically abandoned twelve centuries ago. Even if aion always meant 'eternity,' which is not the case in classic or Hellenistic Greek- aionios could still mean only 'belonging to eternity' and not 'lasting through it."

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, (Vol. 4, p. 641)

"The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the concept of eternity as timelessness." Page 655: "The O.T. has not developed a special term for eternity." Page 645: "The use of the word aion in the N.T. is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means long, distant, uninterrupted time. The intensifying plural occurs frequently in the N.T. but it adds no new meaning."

Dr. Edward Plumptre, an eschatologist

"I fail to find, as is used by the Greek Fathers, any instance in which the idea of time duration is unlimited."

Time and Eternity by G. T. Stevenson, (p. 63)

"Since, as we have seen, the noun aion refers to a period of time it appears, very improbable that the derived adjective aionios would indicate infinite duration, nor have we found any evidence in Greek writing to show that such a concept was expressed by this term."

Professor Herman Oldhausen, German Lutheran theologian

"The Bible has no expression for endlessness. All the Biblical terms imply or denote long periods."

Professor Knappe of Halle wrote

"The Hebrew was destitute of any single word to express endless duration. The pure idea of eternity is not found in any of the ancient languages."

An Alphabetical Analysis by Charles H. Welch (Editor of The Berean Expositor and a man well versed in Greek), (Vol. 1, p. 279)

"Eternity is not a Biblical theme." (Vol. 1, p. 52), "What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration is entirely outside the scope of revelation."

Dr. Mangey, a translator of the writings of Philo, says

"Philo did not use aionios to express endless duration."

The Complete Works of Falvius Josephus.

Josephus obviously did not consider anionios to be "everlasting," seeing that he uses the word to represent the period of time between the giving of the law of Moses and that of his own writing [clearly not an eternity] . He also assigns aionios to the period of imprisonment of the tyrant John by the Romans [clearly he was not imprisoned for an eternity] , and also for the period during which Herod's temple stood [since Herod's temple was not even standing at the time Josephus wrote, it too proves that Josephus did not mean 'eternity' when he wrote 'aionios'] .

Saint Gregory of Nyssa speaks of anionios diastema

"an eonian interval." How many intervals do you know of that are "endless" or "eternal?"

Saint Chrysostum, in his homily on Eph. 2:1-3

"Satan's kingdom is aeonian; that is, it will cease with the present world."

Saint Justin Martyr, in the Apol. (p. 57)

Used the word aionios repeatedly: aionion kolasin...all ouchi chiliontaete periodon, "eonian chastening but a period, not a thousand years," or as some translate this clause "but a period of a thousand years only." Hence, to Justin Martyr, aionios was certainly not "endless."

Dr. O.B. Jenkins

http://orvillejenkins.com/theology/aionios.html

[FineLinen]

Dear Marie: Perhaps the following may be more your cup of tea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=_kfKQJfT0C8

[marie glen]

Dear Marie: Perhaps the following may be more your cup of tea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=_kfKQJfT0C8

Oh! I forgot to add - how "punishment" should read "correction" - i believe punishment to be a translator projection / extension based on a perception. An inaccurate perception that assumes God means punishment. When what He says is "correction" which logically is more in line with being a (good) Father.
:gsmile:

https://biblehub.com/greek/2849.htm

[marie glen]

Satan’s kingdom is aeonian; that is, it will cease with the present world.

..not sure that fits aionian being only from God's essence.. As aion, etc., root of eon/age, not being  eternal  :laughing7:

Amen!

The word aion originally meant “vital force,” “life,”

..may be right..  but I'd have to study the Greek myself.. The world is literally flooded with new doctrines.. which makes me very distrustful.. :gsmile:

I very definitely agree with the - "pertaining to the/an age".

[WhiteWings]

Matthew was written in Hebrew.
Aion was translated from Olam.
Aion/olam is used as an adjective.
That means it's not about time but source.

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into God's punishment: but the righteous into God's life.

So the duration of aion isn't relevant because it's not used as noun in this verse.



http://radical-reaction.com/MyChristianSites/BitsAndPieces/hebraic_meaning.html#Olam

[marie glen]

..might I add that of course that's kolasis which a better translation is correction, and not as likely to be punishment.. neither one of course being 'forever'.. :gsmile:

[WhiteWings]

I agree; I focused on the word that's being discussed.

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into God's pruning: but the righteous into God's life.

[WhiteWings]

..might I add that of course that's kolasis which a better translation is correction, and not as likely to be punishment.. neither one of course being 'forever'.. :gsmile:

While I agree with that conclusion you can not draw that conclusion based on the word aion because it's 100% unrelated to time as and adjective. It's 100% unrelated to the verse.

Punishment could be of any duration, including forever.
Having established that we need a new thread discussing kolasin, and see if that's about duration in some way.

Those who know me, know my view is UR. I'm just someone that takes great value in not adding false word meanings to make a point. If I/we would do that I/we would be just like ETs who translate about everything into everlasting hell.

:2c:

[jugghead]

And we could go as far as saying, when the word is revealed to us, we are resurrected to be a person of judgment which comes through the covenant of the law, or we are a person of love which comes through the covenant of grace.

my  :2c:

[FineLinen]

"To say it again, eternal life is less about a kind of time that starts when we die, and more about a quality and vitality of life now in connection to God. Eternal life doesn't start when we die; it starts now. It's not about a life that begins at death; it's about experiencing the kind of life now that can endure and survive even death." - Rob Bell (Love Wins)-

This is zoe aionios that we may know You....

[FineLinen]

The noun aion nowhere means eternal. Its simple meaning is an age. In its plural form it means ages. We have unquestionably and incontrovertibly demonstrated this fact from numerous New Testament passages. Now once we understand that aionios is the adjective form of the noun aion, a simple little sixth-grade grammar lesson should once and for all establish the exact meaning of aionios.

And yet men who should know better tell us that the Greek noun aion means an age, or ages, which is TIME, and then proceed to ridiculously explain that the adjective form of the same word means exactly the opposite - unending, everlasting, eternal!

www.kingdombiblestudies.org/savior/SOW1.htm

[FineLinen]

What The New Testament Teaches

Aeonian Life Passes Into A Region Above Time

Let us consider the true meaning of the words "aion" and "aionios".

These are the originals of the terms rendered by our translators "everlasting," for ever and ever" and on this translation, so misleading, a vast portion of the popular dogma of endless torment is built up. I say, without hesitation, misleading and incorrect; for "aion" means "an age," a limited period, whether long or short, though often of indefinite length; and the adjective "aionios" means "of the age," "age-long," "aeonian," and NEVER "everlasting" (of its own proper force), it is true that it may be applied as an epithet to things that are endless, but the idea of endlessness in all such cases comes not from the epithet, but only because it is inherent in the object to which the epithet is applied, as in the case of God.....

NOTE:

The word "Aionios" by itself, whether adjective or substantive, never means endless"--Canon Farrar -

"The conception of eternity, in the Semitic languages, is that of a long duration and series of ages."--Rev. J. S. Blunt-- Dictionary of Theology.

" 'Tis notoriously known," says Bishop Rust, "that the Jews, whether writing in Hebrew or Greek, do by 'olam' (the Hebrew word corresponding to "aion"), and aion mean any remarkable period or duration, whether it be of life, or dispensation, or polity."

The word aion is never used in Scripture, or anywhere else, in the sense of endlessness(vulgarly called eternity), it always meant, both in Scripture and out, a period of time; else how could it have a plural--how could you talk of the aeons and aeons of aeons as the Scripture does? -C. Kingsley-

So the secular games, celebrated every century were called "eternal" by the Greeks.--(See HUET, Orig. 2 Page 162)

...Much has been written on the import of the aeonian (eternal) life. Altogether to exclude, (with Maurice) the notion of time seems impracticable, and opposed to the general usage of the New Testament (and of the Septuagint). But while this is so, we may fully recognize that the phrase "eternal life" (aeonian life) does at times pass into a region above time, a region wholly moral and spiritual. Thus, in Saint John, the aeonian life (eternal life), of which he speaks, is a life not measured by duration, but a life in the unseen, life in God. Thus, e.g., God's commandment is life eternal,--ib. 17.3, and Christ is the eternal life.--1 John 1:2, 20.

Quality & Quantity

Admitting, then, the usual reference of aionios to time, we note in the word a tendency to rise above this idea, to denote quality, rather than quantity, to indicate the true, the spiritual, in opposition to the unreal, or the earthly. In this sense the eternal is now and here. Thus "eternal" punishment is one thing, and "everlasting" punishment a very different thing, and so it is that our Revisers have substituted for "everlasting" the word "eternal" in every passage in the New Testament, where aionios is the original word. Further, if we take the term strictly, eternal punishment is impossible, for "eternal" in strictness has no beginning.

Aaronic Priesthood Long Ceased To Exist

Again, a point of great importance is this, that it would have been impossible for the Jews, as it is impossible for us, to accept Christ, except by assigning a limited--nay, a very limited duration--to those Mosaic ordinances which were said in the Old Testament to be "for ever," to be "everlasting" (aeonian). Every line of the New Testament, nay, the very existence of Christianity is thus in fact a proof of the limited sense of aionios in Scripture. Our Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ, our Holy Communion, every prayer uttered in a Christian Church, or in our homes, in the name of the Lord Jesus: our hopes of being "for ever with the Lord"--these contain one and all an affirmation most real, though tacit, of the temporary sense of aionios.

Aionios Repeatedly Applied To Things That Have Long Ago Ceased To Exist

As a further illustration of the meaning of aion and aionios, let me point out that in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the Septuagint)--in common use among the Jews in our Lord's time, from which He and the Apostles usually quoted, and whose authority, therefore, should be decisive on this point--these terms are repeatedly applied to things that have long ceased to exist.

Thus

The Aaronic priesthood is said to be "everlasting," -Numb.25:13-

The land of Canaan is given as an "everlasting" possession, and "for ever" -Gen. 17:8...Gen. 18:15-

In Deut. 23:3, "for ever" is distinctly made an equivalent to "even to the tenth generation."

In Lamentations 5:19, "for ever and ever" is the equivalent of from "generation to generation."

The inhabitants of Palestine are to be bondsmen "for ever" -Lev. 25:46-

In Numb. 18:19, the heave offerings of the holy things are a covenant "for ever."

Caleb obtains his inheritance "for ever" -Joshua 14:9-

And David's seed is to endure "for ever," his throne "for ever," his house "for ever;" nay, the passover is to endure "for ever;" and in Isa. 32:14, the forts and towers shall be "dens for ever, until the spirit be poured upon us."

So in Jude 7, Sodom and Gomorrah are said to be suffering the vengeance of eternal (aeonian) fire, i.e., their temporal overthrow by fire, for they have a definite promise of final restoration.--(Ezek. 16:55)

Christ's Kingdom Is To Last Forever & Yet

And Christ's kingdom is to last "for ever," yet we are distinctly told that this very kingdom is to end.--(I Cor. 15:24) Indeed, quotation might be added to quotation, both from the Bible and from early authors, to prove this limited meaning of aion and its derivatives; but enough has probably been said to prove that it is wholly impossible, and indeed absurd, to contend that any idea of endless duration is necessarily or commonly implied by either aion or aionios.

NOTE:

Thus Josephus calls "aeonian," the temple of Herod, which was actually destroyed when he wrote. PHILO never uses aionios of endless duration.

Aion Either Means Endless Duration Or It Does Not

Further, if this translation of aionios as "eternal," in the sense of endless, be correct, aion must mean eternity, i.e., endless duration. But so to render it would reduce Scripture to an absurdity.

In the first place, you would have over and over again to talk of the "eternities." We can comprehend what "eternity" is, but what are the "eternities?" You cannot have more than one eternity. The doxology would run thus: "Thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, unto the eternities."

In the case of the sin against the Holy Ghost, the translation would then be, "it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this eternity nor in that to come."

Our Lord's words, (Matt. 13:39), would then be, "the harvest is the end of the eternity," i.e., the end of the endless, which is to make our Lord talk nonsense.

Again, in Mark 4:19, the translation should be, "the cares," not of "this world," but "the cares of this eternity choke the word."

In Luke 16:8, "The children of this world," should be "the children of this eternity."

In 1 Cor. 10:11, the words, "upon whom the ends of the world are come," should be: "the ends of the eternities."

Take next, Gal. 1:4: "That He might deliver us from this present evil world," should run thus: "from this present evil eternity."

In 2 Tim. 4:10, the translation should be: "Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present eternity."

And "Now once at the end of the ages hath He been manifested," should read, on the popular view, "at the end of the eternities."

Let me state the dilemma clearly. Aion either means endless duration as its necessary, or at least its ordinary significance, or it does not. If it does, the following difficulties at once arise;

Difficulties

1. How, if it mean an endless period, can aion have a plural?

2. How came such phrases to be used as those repeatedly occurring in Scripture, where aion is added to aion, if aion is of itself infinite?

3. How come such phrases as for the "aion" or aions and beyond?--ton aiona kai ep aiona kai eti: eis tous aionas kai eti.--(see Sept. Ex. 15:18...Dan. 12:3...Micah 4:5)

4. How is it that we repeatedly read of the end of the aion?--Matt. 13:39-40-49;...Matt. 24:3...Matt. 28:20...1 Cor. 10:11...Hebr. 9:26.

5. Finally, if aion be infinite, why is it applied over and over to what is strictly finite? e.g. Mark 4:19...Acts 3:21...Rom. 12:2...1 Cor. 1:20...1 Cor. 2:6...1 Cor. 3:18, 10:11, etc. etc.

If Aion Is Not Infinite

But if aion be not infinite, what right have we to render the adjective aionios (which depends for its meaning on aion) by the terms "eternal" (when used as the equivalent of "endless") and "everlasting?"

Indeed our translators have really done further hurt to those who can only read their English Bible.

They have, wholly obscured a very important doctrine, that of "the ages." This when fully understood throws a flood of light on the plan of redemption, and the method of the divine working. Take a few instances which show the force and clearness gained, by restoring the true rendering of the words aion and aionios.

Turn to Matt. 24:3. There our version represents the disciples as asking "what should be the sign of the end of the world." It should be the end of the "age;" the close of the Jewish age marked by the fall of Jerusalem.

In Matt. 13:39-40-49, the true rendering is not the end of the "world," but of the "age," an important change.

So John 17:3, "this is life eternal," should be "the life of the ages," i.e., peculiar to those ages, in which the scheme of salvation is being worked out.

Or take Heb 5:9; Heb. 9:12; Heb. 13:20, "eternal salvation" should be "aeonian" or of the ages; "eternal redemption" is the redemption "of the ages;" the eternal covenant is the "covenant of the ages," the covenant peculiar to the ages of redemption.

In Eph. 3:11, "the eternal purpose" is really the purpose of "the ages," i.e., worked out in "the ages."

In Eph. 3:21, there occurs a suggestive phrase altogether obscured (as usual, where this word is in question), by our version, "until all the generations of the age of the ages." Thus it runs in the original, and it is altogether unfair to conceal this elaborate statement by merely rendering "throughout all ages."

In 1 Cor. 10:11 "the ends of the world" are the "ends of the ages." In 1 Cor. 2:6-7-8, the word aion is four times translated "world," it should be "age' or "ages" in all cases.

And here it is impossible to avoid asking how--assuming that aion does mean "world" in these cases--how it can yield, as an adjective, such a term as "everlasting?" If it mean "world," then the adjective should be "worldly," "of the world." And great force and freshness would be gained in our version by always adhering to the one rendering "age."

[marie glen]

Amen.. Very interesting read(s)! And logical! One of the really good examples of translator error, and not hard for the believer, or not yet believer, to understand.. Especially the summary points 1-5! :thumbsup:

[DavidFord]

Early Greek-speaking theologians knew 'aion' means 'world/age.'  Augustine knew Latin but not Greek.  Augustine's misunderstanding of the meaning of 'aion,' and his promotion of the never-ending-torture view, resulted in many bad translations over the centuries. 
Someone on youtube:  "all I read on hell topics is that it's eternal" 
There are other materials that could be read.  I invite you to study the Bible, and compare the support for the universal restoration vs. annihilation vs. never-ending-torture views.  I suspect you'll conclude that nobody will suffer in hell for an infinite length of time.

Universal Restoration & the Fate of the Wicked
https://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/universal-restoration-verses/
R.H. Charles: bring eschatology into harmony w/ Xtian theology of God
https://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/r-h-charles-bring-eschatology-into-harmony-w-xtian-theology-of-god/

[FineLinen]

Aion Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM-3DYy5pfY

Duration or Essence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=TycwY-e1pUc

Part 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FQJ2AVBZCM

F.W. Farrar on “Aeonian”

http://www.saviourofall.org/Writings/faithfathers.html

[marie glen]

Hell, at worst, a state of mind.. Not a place - not even aionian! I.e. I have become convinced that gehenna is a state of mind.. that "the judgment" is for "correction" and God being "perfect" never ever "misses the mark". / Aka, there is no "one" He cannot correct.. and the correction precedes the mention of lake of fire - which I believe will be the elements melting in a furious heat (2Pet.3:12-13). And the mention of lake of fire at Jesus' return/appearing is also a furious melting of elements, but manmade.

If "correction" precedes lake of fire.. And God "is perfect" NEVER missing the mark.. who would be hurt of by the 2nd death - which the verse says what it is - the death of death and all its shadow / imperfection.

"It is given to man, ONCE to die".

If one hardens their heart they may have a share in the manmade lof.. After all, the wheat is gathered into His barn, initially, at His return/appearing.. so I figure that is also when the tares are gathered (to Armageddon) to be burned.. I figure it's just the et fake news that keeps us struggling with 'hell'. But I am more and more convinced there is no temporary corporal torment or torture.. But "the judgment" as their day of atonement like ours is "today" .. Same process of convincing, of repentance and of being born again.. and God did not burn us alive.. except our own remorse or burning shame we initially felt.

[Andrew]

Could hell actually be forever but since the Hebrew and greek didn't have a word to describe it they used the next best thing(a word describing a long time)?

[Forest]

Andrew,

It is my understanding that they actually did have a word for eternal / never ending, which was used to describe God.

I've also read that they couldn't fathom the idea of eternal / never ending, which would mean that they wouldn't expect judgment/punishment to last that long.

Just my  :2c: ! I can't remember where I read these things though!

[DavidFord]

Hell, at worst, a state of mind.. Not a place.... I.e. I have become convinced that gehenna is a state of mind

So, does Hitler currently have a hellish state of mind?  And if so, what's that like for him to experience/ be in?

"the judgment" is for "correction".... there is no "one" He cannot correct

Agreed.

"who would be hurt of by the 2nd death

I bet the will in a man that always opposes God would be mortally hurt.  But the will in a man that always strives to obey God would be perfectly fine.

[DavidFord]

Could hell actually be forever but since the Hebrew and greek didn't have a word to describe it they used the next best thing(a word describing a long time)?

I recall reading Greg Glaser saying that they could have simply said 'not end' i.e. without end.  But they didn't-- they spoke of 'age,' and spoke of the 'age of ages.'  Nor did they put 'amen' i.e. 'continuing' after 'age of ages' in reference to humans.

Greg Glaser note on Crawford Codex Rev 20:10, http://dukhrana.com
Every single punishment described throughout the entire literal bible utilizes _finite_ terms (as here with Nyml9-ailmyn ("ages/worlds"), which refers to finite planetary bodies/eras). See Greg Glaser article for full scripture citations. The glory of the Father has the word Nym0-amyn ("perpetual", "continuing") after it (Nym0 Nyml9 Ml9 - ailm ailmyn amyn). In every single instance where the punishment of wrongdoers is described, the word Nym0-amyn is noticeably absent. Accordingly, the literal text does not teach infinite or eternal torment, but rather _finite_ punishment.

"Preacher Man – Get the Mistranslation Out of Hell!" (2015) by Greg Glaser
https://www.logicalhierarchy.com/blog/preacher-man-hell-mistranslation/

[darryl]

Could hell actually be forever but since the Hebrew and greek didn't have a word to describe it they used the next best thing(a word describing a long time)?

they did have a word, 'aidios...= eternal/forever/everlasting which is NEVER  used to describe 'hell'

[darryl]

how 'aionios' is used in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT that was quoted by Jesus and all NT authors, is essential to understanding what it means....and 'olam' is ALWAYS translated into Greek as 'aionios'...eg, in Genesis where it describes the (temporal) duration of the rainbow, the Septuagint  uses 'aionios', the same word as used in Mt25:46...so 'aionios' CANNOT mean 'eternal' in Mt25:46.

[darryl]

Dear Marie: The following quotes relating to aionios may help.

The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Dr. R. F. Weymouth

Eternal: Greek: "aeonion," i.e., "of the ages." Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed, does not signify "during," but "belong to" the aeons or ages."

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (vol. IV, p. 643)

Time: The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the conception of eternity as timelessness. The O.T. has not developed a special term for "eternity." The word aion originally meant "vital force," "life," then "age," "lifetime."

Elliot's Commentary on the Whole Bible (Matt. 25:46)

Everlasting punishment–life eternal. The two adjectives represent the same Greek word, aionios-it must be admitted that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal" does not, in itself, involve endlessness, but rather, duration, whether through an age or succession of ages, and that it is therefore applied in the N.T. to periods of time that have had both a beginning and ending (Rom. 16:25).

Hasting's Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. I, p. 542, art. Christ and the Gospels)

Eternity. There is no word either in the O.T. Hebrew or the N.T. Greek to express the abstract idea of eternity. (Vol. III, p. 369): Eternal, everlasting-nonetheless "eternal" is misleading, inasmuch as it has come in the English to connote the idea of "endlessly existing," and thus to be practically a synonym for "everlasting." But this is not an adequate rendering of aionios which varies in meaning with the variations of the noun aion from which it comes. (p. 370):

The chronoios aioniois moreover, are not to be thought of as stretching backward everlastingly, as it is proved by the pro chronon aionion of II Tim. 1:9; Titus. 1:2. (Note: pro chronon aionion means "BEFORE times eonian." Since this Scripture tells us that there was time "before" eonian, eionian cannot possibly mean eternal, for nothing can be "before" eternity.)

The large Catholic Bible dictionary, The Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible (p. 693)

ETERNITY: The Bible hardly speaks of eternity in the philosophical sense of infinite duration without beginning or end. The Hebrew word olam, which is used alone (Ps. 61:8; etc.) or with various prepositions (Gen. 3:22; etc.) in contexts where it is traditionally translated as 'forever,' means in itself no more than 'for an indefinitely long period." Thus me olam does not mean 'from eternity' but 'of old' Gen. 6:4; etc.). In the N.T. aion is used as the equivalent of olam. (Note: even the Catholic translators of The Jerusalem Bible and The New American Bible have failed to heed the scholarship of their own Catholic authorities.)

Dr. R. F. Weymouth, a translator who was adept in Greek, states in The New Testament in Modern Speech (p. 657)

Eternal, Greek aeonion, i.e., of the ages: Etymologically this adjective, like others similarly formed does not signify, "during" but "belonging to" the aeons or ages.

Dr. Marvin Vincent, Word Studies of the New Testament (Vol. IV, p. 59).

The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective in themselves carries the sense of "endless" or "everlasting.' Anionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time.

Dr. F. W. Farrar, author of The Life of Christ and The Life and Word of St. Paul, as well as books about Greek grammar and syntax, writes in The Eternal Hope (p. 198)

In Dr. Farrar's book, Mercy and Judgment, (p. 378)

"Since aion meant 'age,' aionios means, properly, 'belonging to an age,' or 'age-long,' and anyone who asserts that it must mean 'endless' defends a position which even Augustine practically abandoned twelve centuries ago. Even if aion always meant 'eternity,' which is not the case in classic or Hellenistic Greek- aionios could still mean only 'belonging to eternity' and not 'lasting through it."

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, (Vol. 4, p. 641)

"The O.T. and the N.T. are not acquainted with the concept of eternity as timelessness." Page 655: "The O.T. has not developed a special term for eternity." Page 645: "The use of the word aion in the N.T. is determined very much by the O.T. and the LXX. Aion means long, distant, uninterrupted time. The intensifying plural occurs frequently in the N.T. but it adds no new meaning."

Dr. Edward Plumptre, an eschatologist

"I fail to find, as is used by the Greek Fathers, any instance in which the idea of time duration is unlimited."

Time and Eternity by G. T. Stevenson, (p. 63)

"Since, as we have seen, the noun aion refers to a period of time it appears, very improbable that the derived adjective aionios would indicate infinite duration, nor have we found any evidence in Greek writing to show that such a concept was expressed by this term."

Professor Herman Oldhausen, German Lutheran theologian

"The Bible has no expression for endlessness. All the Biblical terms imply or denote long periods."

Professor Knappe of Halle wrote

"The Hebrew was destitute of any single word to express endless duration. The pure idea of eternity is not found in any of the ancient languages."

An Alphabetical Analysis by Charles H. Welch (Editor of The Berean Expositor and a man well versed in Greek), (Vol. 1, p. 279)

"Eternity is not a Biblical theme." (Vol. 1, p. 52), "What we have to learn is that the Bible does not speak of eternity. It is not written to tell us of eternity. Such a consideration is entirely outside the scope of revelation."

Dr. Mangey, a translator of the writings of Philo, says

"Philo did not use aionios to express endless duration."

The Complete Works of Falvius Josephus.

Josephus obviously did not consider anionios to be "everlasting," seeing that he uses the word to represent the period of time between the giving of the law of Moses and that of his own writing [clearly not an eternity] . He also assigns aionios to the period of imprisonment of the tyrant John by the Romans [clearly he was not imprisoned for an eternity] , and also for the period during which Herod's temple stood [since Herod's temple was not even standing at the time Josephus wrote, it too proves that Josephus did not mean 'eternity' when he wrote 'aionios'] .

Saint Gregory of Nyssa speaks of anionios diastema

"an eonian interval." How many intervals do you know of that are "endless" or "eternal?"

Saint Chrysostum, in his homily on Eph. 2:1-3

"Satan's kingdom is aeonian; that is, it will cease with the present world."

Saint Justin Martyr, in the Apol. (p. 57)

Used the word aionios repeatedly: aionion kolasin...all ouchi chiliontaete periodon, "eonian chastening but a period, not a thousand years," or as some translate this clause "but a period of a thousand years only." Hence, to Justin Martyr, aionios was certainly not "endless."

Dr. O.B. Jenkins

http://orvillejenkins.com/theology/aionios.html

how 'aionios' is used in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT that was quoted by Jesus and all NT authors, is essential to understanding what it means....and 'olam' is ALWAYS translated into Greek as 'aionios'...eg, in Genesis where it describes the (temporal) duration of the rainbow, the Septuagint  uses 'aionios', the same word as used in Mt25:46...so 'aionios' CANNOT mean 'eternal' in Mt25:46.