Hello! I have been trying to research what Jews thought and currently think regarding heaven and hell, judgments, punishments, etc because that to me would be further evidence that what Jesus was preaching about when he spoke of Gehenna was not eternal conscious torment. Jesus was, after all, a Jew preaching to Jews.
I came across this web site. I have so far gathered the idea from my other readings that there is not a consensus among Jews regarding the afterlife, but this article is very much in align with universal salvation and the interpretation of Gehenna as finite in duration. Of course, what is missing from this equation is Jesus, since the people who wrote this article are Jewish and don't believe he is the messiah. I wanted to get other's views on this:
From chabad.org:
"Heaven and hell are where the soul receives its reward and punishment after death. Yes, Judaism believes in, and Jewish traditional sources extensively discuss, punishment and reward in the afterlife (indeed, it is one of the "Thirteen Principles" of Judaism enumerated by Maimonides). But these are a very different "heaven" and "hell" than what one finds described in medieval Christian texts or New Yorker cartoons. Heaven is not a place of halos and harps, nor is hell populated by those red creatures with pitchforks depicted on the label of non-kosher canned meat.
After death, the soul returns to its divine Source, together with all the G‑dliness it has "extracted" from the physical world by using it for meaningful purposes. The soul now relives its experiences on another plane, and experiences the good it accomplished during its physical lifetime as incredible happiness and pleasure, and the negative as incredibly painful.
This pleasure and pain are not reward and punishment in the conventional sense—in the sense that we might punish a criminal by sending him to jail, or reward a dedicated employee with a raise. It is rather that we experience our own life in its reality—a reality from which we were sheltered during our physical lifetimes. We experience the true import and effect of our actions. Turning up the volume on that TV set with that symphony orchestra can be intensely pleasurable, or intensely painful8—depending on how we played the music of our lives.
When the soul departs from the body, it stands before the heavenly court to give a "judgment and accounting" of its earthly life.9 But the heavenly court does only the "accounting" part; the "judgment" part—that, only the soul itself can do.10 Only the soul can pass judgment on itself; only it can know and sense the true extent of what it accomplished, or neglected to accomplish, in the course of its physical life. Freed from the limitations and concealments of the physical state, it can now see G‑dliness; it can now look back at its own life and experience what it truly was. The soul's experience of the G‑dliness it brought into the world with its mitzvot and positive actions is the exquisite pleasure of Gan Eden (the "Garden of Eden"—Paradise); its experience of the destructiveness it wrought through its lapses and transgressions is the excruciating pain of Gehinnom ("Gehenna" or "Purgatory").
The truth hurts. The truth also cleanses and heals. The spiritual pain of Gehinnom—the soul's pain in facing the truth of its life—cleanses and heals the soul of the spiritual stains and blemishes that its failings and misdeeds have attached to it. Freed of this husk of negativity, the soul is now able to fully enjoy the immeasurable good that its life engendered, and "bask in the divine radiance" emitted by the G‑dliness it brought into the world.
For a G‑dly soul spawns far more good in its lifetime than evil. The core of the soul is unadulterated goodness; the good we accomplish is infinite, the evil but shallow and superficial. So even the most wicked of souls, say our sages, experiences at most twelve months of Gehinnom, followed by an eternity of heaven."
Interesting article in deed.
To a certain extent could indeed be a view of the judgment period- the correction process.
Part of learning will be exposure of errors- then the correct path that could have been taken- the path actually taken with the consequences exposed- the fact that the mistakes are covered by Christ- then the positive outcome that places us in a secure position with increased knowledge and wisdom in Christ.
Whilst the soul is powerful- cannot take any credit for anything. Most diverse and so-called experts all push at some fine line of works.
Christ says to take up the cross daily. I.E His works not ours. The flesh is desperately wicked- will sin- but this is how we were made in the first Adam. Pretty specifically to teach us good from evil.
Jer 17;9 ' The heart is deceitful above all things and it is incurable. Who can know it?'
Then we are covered by the second Adam-Christ-
Sown in dishonour- raised in glory.
The soul/flesh are in dishonour- however will be corrected and raised in glory- each in his own time. New creation and state of being.
Whilst we are learning now, we are to be raised to a new position because of Christ and His sacrifice on the cross.
A problem for the Jews since there is no personal works or obedience. A problem for the Greeks because there is no earthly wisdom involved.
Hi God is Love,
I have been reading Chabad.org for sometime, and other sites like it. Concepts like Olam Haba(world to come, known as Heavenly Eden in tradition), Olam Haze(This world) and Tikkun Olam(repair the world) have provided insights, or glimpses for me into some of the original concepts of the prophets about what the cosmology of the Jews was/is.
This is a post I recently made on another thread.
5776
According to tradition, the Hebrew calendar started at the time of Creation, placed at 3761 BC. The current (2015/2016) Hebrew year is 5776.
Interesting blog post I read today.......(from 2008)
G – d created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. These six days represent 6000 years and it says in Talmud Sanhedrin 97a that our world is going to exit for 6000 years (6000 years according to the Jewish calendar). The Gemara also divides these 6000 years into three time periods:
The first 2000 years are the years of Tohu (Chaos). Later, Avraham was born and the following 2000 years were the years of Torah. The last 2000 years, however, are the years of the Ge'ulah (Redemption) and thus the coming of the Meshiach. And we are living in those last 2000 years. The Hebrew year is now 5768.
Tohu & Tikkun
Tohu & Tikkun: (Kabbalistic terms; lit. "chaos" and "rectification"); Kabbalah explains that at the beginning of creation, the world was in a spiritual condition called Tohu (chaos), an elevated realm of spiritual existence which lacked the balance and order that characterizes our frame of reference and which therefore "collapsed." in an event called shevirat hakeilim – the breaking of the vessels, when the light departed from them. This "break" was planned by G-d in the first place, for it was a "destruction for the purpose of building," since only then could there exist the orderly world we are familiar with, the world of tikkun ("rectification" or "order"). This world possesses lesser lights, but the vessels are plentiful. The sparks of holiness that "fell" when the vessels were broken are hidden within various parts of our world, and awaiting their "correction" through man's Divine service
Many of the popular concepts of charismatic Christianity are recycled(not saying untrue or true) versions of kaballist teaching and the early rabbinical writings.
I think sometimes that is because the concepts are close to the truth and self-evident to reasoning spiritual seekers. I think sometimes it is also just the well-worn pathways of error and near misses through the generations of seekers and teachers. Anyway, they can provide some interesting insights.
A great study.. But aren't tradition, etc, for Jewish folks likely to travel the same path as for others.. But if we could talk to some ancient Hebrew folks - during the prophet centuries, for instance, be more accurate? To me, it's the Word only.. And yes, definitely Old Testament view on death and judgment!!
:smile:
..not too long after coming to the Lord, I realized so much of the world is into 'magic' and part and parcel with that, it seemed and seems to me is the strongly held idea of a floaty afterlife and judgment or reward immediately after each person's death, which to me does not seem to align with the judgment bar of Jesus, which, imo, seems to be the separating of sheep and goats at His return for the judgment (or that is the full drinking down of the consequences/results of mankind's doings-via the limited ability of choice) nor the great white throne judgment which to me seems to imply much more of a collective 'day' of judgment (and imo, review/convincing) ..or of course ecclesiastes 9:10 " All that thy hand findeth to do, with thy power do, for there is no work, and device, and knowledge, and wisdom in Sheol whither thou art going." (no work, no device, no knowing/knowledge, no wisdom, where you are going afterlife. (until resurrection, that is. Which according to Thess 4,etc, also seems very collective.)
:Peace2: and God bless..
Indeed currently there have been many religions I.M.O under the influence of spiritual beings- their teachings and conduct.
We are to be judging angels in the next phase.
This seems to state that they have a role they are currently playing in the big picture.
To become a judge one has to know the whole system comprehensively and be in the correct position to apply that judgment.
Christ went into the heavenly temple for all creation.
Then there are the millennium and great white throne periods of time.
Judgment corrects in varying ways suitable to the recipient.
No discipline/correction is nice at the time-yet produces understanding of the problem that have happened.
This all seems to be pointing at the training of mankind in preparation of considerably greater power and position in the next ages.
Serious jobs need serious training.
Responsible positions have to learn cause and effect.
Man will be/is in a serious, responsible position In Christ- our leader, brother, mediator, tutor, saviour, to place us as God's children; royal princes/princesses in the heavenly kingdom which is to come to fruition.
:iagree:
Interesting line above some of the post.
Not by me deliberately.
Is that divine highlight, or cut out?
you hit the through strike button up by where the bold and italics buttons are.
Little tricks of the trade.
I thought I was underlining. Accuracy sometimes deviates from the intention.
it seems to me 'tis a mix of ancient Judaism and middle age cabala
Quote from: Ross on October 30, 2015, 01:30:07 AM
Indeed currently there have been many religions I.M.O under the influence of spiritual beings- their teachings and conduct.
We are to be judging angels in the next phase.
This seems to state that they have a role they are currently playing in the big picture.
To become a judge one has to know the whole system comprehensively and be in the correct position to apply that judgment.
Christ went into the heavenly temple for all creation.
Then there are the millennium and great white throne periods of time.
Judgment corrects in varying ways suitable to the recipient.
No discipline/correction is nice at the time-yet produces understanding of the problem(s) that have happened.
This all seems to be pointing at the training of mankind in preparation of considerably greater power and position in the next ages.
Serious jobs need serious training.
Responsible positions have to learn cause and effect.
Man will be/is in a serious, responsible position In Christ- our leader, brother, mediator, tutor, saviour, to place us as God's children; royal princes/princesses in the heavenly kingdom which is to come to fruition.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :banana:
P.S. i couldn't see where the strike tag was, it was the s you put in brackets, so I changed it to parenthesis (testing, testing!) The Lord 'touched' me while reading your post..
:smile:
Absolutely amazing just how actually incredible are our loving Father and incredible brother Christ .
He literally opens the heart to the knowledge surpassing love of God.