Jesus Returned in Power and Glory

[jabcat]

Re: resurrected spiritual body, I like and agree with this from Randy Alcorn;

Someone recently showed me an article from a reputable Christian magazine that stated we will not have physical bodies in the future heaven, based on an (incorrect) understanding of the reference in 1 Corinthians 15 to a "spiritual body"

When Paul uses the term "spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15:44), he is not talking about a body made of spirit, or an incorporeal body—there is no such thing. Body means corporeal: flesh and bones. The word spiritual here is an adjective describing body [incorruptible, immortal vs. our current earthly corruptible ones]...

:Peace2:

(Paul also said we don't yet know what we shall be [exactly what that will look/feel/be like?], but we will be as He is and see Him face to face.)    :dsunny:

[jabcat]

So you know I have to do this  :laugh:

How do we see the topic of full pret/partial pret/futurism  as connecting to UR?   What are the ramifications, if any?     

[Patinak]

James,
I knew it was coming, but it was fun while it lasted!
Pat

[jabcat]

 :laugh:

:mblush:

[GodIsLove]

I don't know if body always means flesh and bones in a material sense, I did a search and the word used for body is also the word used to describe the "body of Christ" in the sense of all believers being connected in Christ. It is also used when Jesus said the bread was his "body" and unless someone is Catholic they don't believe this to be literal flesh and bones. So i think we just don't know what it will be like, because we have only experienced life in this state of existence.

I think to connect this to UR, for me, it helps to explain the "big picture," but it's not something we should well on if it causes division.

I think it's peripheral, like all of the end times, second coming, apocalypse, do u celebrate Christmas, free will vs God's sovereignty etc...

So let's get back to our focus here! :)

[jabcat]

ahum, staying off focus with my post  :spank:...you threw out a bone about UR, maybe the next person will actually follow up on it!  I think it's OK to chat about this stuff, as long as we don't get "lost" in it, too off track, contentious, and keep bringing it back toward UR application.   :thumbsup:

here's what I think about our new spiritual body, and my main point would be to address the idea that we'll "just" be some invisible spirit in the future.  i think some do believe that ...So maybe his outer layer wasn't "flesh" as we currently know it.  I don't even know that He had "bones" as we know it. However, the disciples saw Jesus, touched Him, He walked and talked with them.  So in my view, He wasn't invisible, a wisp of smoke, or "just" a spirit.  However, He was able to "transport"/move in and out miraculously, etc., was incorruptible, immorrtal..so definitely different.

Still, I agree, we don't know all the exact details, just as Paul said and I've noted a couple of times.  I have to say it again though..."Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is."   

As far as UR for me, and Christianity in general, I think it's important to maintain a greater hope that there's more to look forward to than this old world;  that we haven't already attained, that "this is it"/it's already happened.  But rather, Him being All in All is going to be a whole lot better than this!   :dsunny:

[GodIsLove]

Er, I meant let's get back to our focus here on Tentmaker of the victorious gospel.

I wasn't saying that YOUR post was off focus...

Yikes for your emoticon thingie.

And if you re read my original post about spiritual bodies I mentioned that the disciples were able to touch Jesus's body. I believe the spiritual to be more real than the material, meaning that now on this plane of existience we can't comprehend the spiritual existence yet but whatever it is it will be more real than this, not less real.

So I don't think we are in disagreement with anything, somehow the medium of type and internet has caused you to think this tho, and I apologize for the confusion.

[GodIsLove]

Also, I don't think anyone, preterist or not, thinks this is as good as it gets!

In my understanding and what I have tried to convey, preterism believes we are in the period of time of leavening, where we are called out to bring forth the kingdom, gradually over time. We are in the point of this:

"The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life."

The spirit being the Holy Spirit, the bride being His people/church. We are urging those around us to come and take of the free gift, and we will continue this work with and through Christ until:

"22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet." c Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."

[jabcat]

I think you thought I was talking solely to you.  My post was more general than that :)

I didn't think you were talking about me being off track, I was talking about my own post I was about to make being off-topic;  and the spanking was for me.  (I usually deserve it).

I probably should have used an "I" in a place or two and it would have been more clear.  Because of that I think you misunderstood me.    :laughing7:

I'll research it some more, but in reading in the past I've gotten the impression that some full/extreme preterists do see things as more "final" now, i.e., "this is it" (or maybe that all the "big events" have already happened and it just keeps getting better and better).

:Peace2:

[DavidFord]

Yes, I believe Jesus could very well come to earth many times, in spirit.

How about bodily?

james c in a comment on https://youtu.be/DakEcY7Z5GU
Some Dandy:  I had a Road to Damascus experience when I was 34.  Next month I will turn 62.  Although I was alone in my car back in 1991, I was not as alone as I thought.  A hand came to rest on my left shoulder, & a voice whispered into my right ear.  And the voice whispered to me "I will bear your burdens."  A couple of days later, I finally wandered into a Catholic Church & told a priest about it, & that I had stopped in just to say "Thank You."  He told me that I was the 10th Leper.  And I have not been the same since.

Yes!

Edit: I mean yes as in I agree with experiences such as this, but as Sheila said, I believe this is a spiritual body, not a material/natural body. I do believe we can see and touch the spiritual body just as the apostles did. I also believe Jesus can, did, does, and will come spiritually to individuals and to groups when and how he chooses.

Is it a body that can:  eat fish?  eat honeycomb/honey?  be poked by fingers exploring a wound in the side of the chest cavity?

[sheila]

I see preterism-partial-future..like this Rev 1;18 I am the living one..I was dead...and behold,I am alive forever and ever...

and the beast that was,is not..and yet will come forthupoutof the abyssRev 17;8...

there's alwayspast,present-partial-futurefullfillment of these things..til THE END when all in all :2c:

[sheila]

our faces will shine like the light of the sun....Moses face shone..and Jesus face/body,too.Youv'e seen the old paintings with

a light halo around their head..only it's much  brighter. :2c:

[DavidFord]

How do we see the topic of full pret/partial pret/futurism  as connecting to UR?   What are the ramifications, if any?   

Mt 23:33 was talking about Gehenna, the valley outside Jerusalem-- not some place of constant conscious unending torture.
Mt 23:29, 33 (YLT) 'Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the tombs of the righteous,  .... 'Serpents!  brood of vipers!  how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

Mt 23:29 through Mt 25:46 is a big unit of thought.   Mt 25:31-46 can't be used to support the never-ending-torture view because the events of those verses already occurred as of the end of A.D. 70.

from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqqVwzMkiPc&lc=z22hcltr4qjvwdyy404t1aokgpuda1cj4gko1iw5ufbybk0h00410.1545692938155601
Lex Treme 1 year ago
Correct Donna and you make a very good point that many don't consider. Why was Adam not warned about an eternal hellfire, or Abraham, Moses, even the Apostle Paul ,who was appointed to the nations by the risen glorified Christ doesn't mention it once! People don't look at scripture in context.

This is a long comment but I hope it may be helpful. The original Hebrew/Greek words that were used all had specific meanings, however over time the original meanings strayed, mainly through traditions so now have taken on different meanings. Hell for example is not a Greek word, (hence can't even be found in many bible translations) it's actually used in the word HEL-MET which is a head COVERING, not a place of eternal torment. The four words often lumped together are, Sheol (Hebrew) or Hades (Greek) grave/pit/unseen, then Tartarus (Greek) used for sinning angels, finally Gehenna (Greek) had the strongest link to fire because it was a literal place located just outside the walls of Jerusalem, in the Valley of Ben Hinnom (Gehhinnom), it was a rubbish dump, you can visit the area today, although obviously it looks very different now.

Matthew 25:31-46 is the passage many turn to for the doctrine of 'hell' or 'eternal torment', but sadly people rarely read the specific context of what is going on in Matthew 25:31-46? We find the use of the words follow a specific judgement, at a specific future time, involving a specific group.

I won't post all the verses here but below is a summary of Matthew 25:31-46, highlighting some key points that are often overlooked.

(1)The target audience is NATIONS
(2)They are GATHERED (not resurrected from the dead as in Revelation 20:12) so are living at the time.
(3)TWO 'GROUPS' are formed in the judgement - Sheep (Right hand) / Goats (Left hand).
(4)REASON For Judgement – The King's brethren Hungered, was Thirsty, a Stranger, Naked, Infirm or in Jail. Which of the nations responded to these circumstances? (So it's a humanitarian judgement)
(5)RESULT of the Judgement - The Sheep (nations) responded to the above circumstances, so WILL ENJOY AGE-ABIDING/DURING LIFE in the allotment of the kingdom (notice NOT rule and reign in it), but the Goat (nations) did not respond to the above circumstances, so will go away to AGE-ABIDING/DURING CORRECTION/PUNISHMENT/CHASTENING.
(BOTH the Sheep and the Goat nations actually acknowledge Jesus as Lord in the judgement).

Verse 46 reveals (addressing the goat nations below)
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (KJV)
"And, these, shall go away, into, age-abiding correction, but, the righteous, into, age-abiding, life." (REB)
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during." (YLT)
"And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian." (CLV)

We find the judgement is based on who helped the King's brethren (Israel) I believe during the difficult tribulation period to come. Verse 46 reveals 'the goat nations' who don't help won't get entrance into the Kingdom, but will rather miss out. Rotherham emphasized bible is probably the clearest in it's choice of words, revealing no one goes away to eternal torment, but much rather to a specific time of age-abiding/during correction, to basically be set right.

The Book of Revelation does reveal that at a future time some will enter "the second death" Rev 2:11 , 20:6, 20:14, 21:8, but this is dealing with the Great White Throne Judgement, which is a different judgement to the one in Matthew 25, however 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 takes us to a time beyond the Great White Throne Judgement, therefore we read that ultimately death will be abolished, i.e. hold no one, 1 Cor 15:26 and we find God's ultimate purpose is to be "ALL in all" 1 Cor 15:28! People think if God is going to save all, that means He does away with His Judgement's, but far from it, God is wise, His Judgement's do not work against His purpose, but much rather they are used as a MEANS for Him to accomplish a glorious end, i.e. to ultimately be "All in all" 1 Cor 15:28.

The doctrine of eternal torment takes sin THE LEAST seriously, as this doctrine demotes God to a little g "god" who can't ever resolve the problem and so has to dump it somewhere for all eternity. To sin means to miss/fall short of the mark, therefore if God intended to save all, which even most eternal torment believers will agree He did, but is now unable to, they are saying God is missing/falling short of His mark and therefore sinning! This is a far more serious attack on God's character than many realize.

The doctrine of Annihilation is somewhat more humane, BUT it sadly denies both God and His Christ the glory, something many have sadly lost sight of.

I look forward with great expectation to a future time when all will not only come into a realization of the truth, but for when "in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing ... and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father." Phil 2:10-11 (CLV), because we are told this will be FOR THE GLORY OF God!  All believers should truly long for this, otherwise they should be the most miserable of believers, in holding to a doctrine where the God they worship won't ultimately get His rightful glory.

Thankfully all will come to realize the following truths because God is indeed ALMIGHTY and will accomplish:
Reconciliation of all (Col. 1:20)
Justification of all (Rom. 5:18)
Vivification of all (1 Cor. 15:22-24)
Subjection of all (1 Cor. 15:28)
Salvation of all (1 Tim. 4:9-11)
Merciful To All  (Rom. 11:32)
God All in all (1 Cor. 15:28)

In His grace.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup: David and sheila.

adapted from biblestudytools.com

Mild/partial and/or moderate preterism holds that most of the prophecies of Revelation were fulfilled in either the fall of Jerusalem (A.D. 70) or the fall of the Roman Empire (A.D. 476), but the Second Coming of Christ and resurrection of believers is yet future. This form of preterism.. is the most frequent view encountered in our day.

Full or extreme preterism holds that all the prophecies of Revelation are already fulfilled, that we are currently living spiritually in the "new heavens and new earth" and denies a future bodily return of Jesus.....believe that "the second coming MUST HAVE already occurred, since it was one of the things predicted in the O.T. which had to be fulfilled by the time Jerusalem was destroyed" . . . This means there will never be a future second coming, for it already occurred in A. D. 70. Further, there will be no bodily resurrection of believers.. Full preterists say . . . we are now living in what we would call the eternal state or the new heavens and new earth of Revelation Rev. 21:1+-Rev. 22:1+.

[GodIsLove]

Yes, I believe Jesus could very well come to earth many times, in spirit.

How about bodily?

james c in a comment on https://youtu.be/DakEcY7Z5GU
Some Dandy:  I had a Road to Damascus experience when I was 34.  Next month I will turn 62.  Although I was alone in my car back in 1991, I was not as alone as I thought.  A hand came to rest on my left shoulder, & a voice whispered into my right ear.  And the voice whispered to me "I will bear your burdens."  A couple of days later, I finally wandered into a Catholic Church & told a priest about it, & that I had stopped in just to say "Thank You."  He told me that I was the 10th Leper.  And I have not been the same since.

Yes!

Edit: I mean yes as in I agree with experiences such as this, but as Sheila said, I believe this is a spiritual body, not a material/natural body. I do believe we can see and touch the spiritual body just as the apostles did. I also believe Jesus can, did, does, and will come spiritually to individuals and to groups when and how he chooses.

Is it a body that can:  eat fish?  eat honeycomb/honey?  be poked by fingers exploring a wound in the side of the chest cavity?

Sure

I still don't think it's the same substance as our current bodies, which are made of carbon and whatever.

[rosered]

  I have sure enjoyed  just listening  , what everyone is sharing .

I also am one whom believes  ,  that Gods Word is perpetual and  it   comes in times and seasons   and in every generation  to some degree .occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted.

  The unending or never ending or changing   Word of God will be summed up  as TRUTH in the end .



  And  the spiritual bodies are  of the nature  of God ,a holy thing ,  that  is  LIFE in and of itself  and has never known death  ever .
  Even Jesus come  , had a mortal body prepared for Him  , to be sent as a  baby  , born of woman under the law  and ministration of death   Gal 4;4 3So also, when we were children, we were enslaved under the basic principles of the world. 4But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5to redeem those under the law, that we might receive our adoption as sons....  and BE the daily sacrifice , the daily bread  of heaven ,,,, to fulfill the  sacrifice  in the fulness of times , The phrase is derived from a passage in Ephesians 1:10  which reads: "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him."



  for me the mortal bodies  are dying  and decaying the moment  of  conception .  as Gods Word being true in the day  we eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil   we shall surly die ...

  I have  come to  realize  that  , when we read Gods Word   , it causes great fear  in the carnal mind  , to be carnally minded is death   and  when we see the scriptures   that invoke  fear   in us , it is the beginning of Wisdom  ..

But I see even in the scriptures we are to choose the good in them also  , because they judge us all  , This word judges us all

   when making the tree good   or the good news of the gospel , the tree of Life is  found in Jesus Christ    and His rewards are with Him .

Now for me  , I  see the eating fish  with honeycomb and  poking the holes where the wounds  were made    are literal to those whom read it as literal  and making it a miracle of sorts ,   as unbelievable    , like walking on water   is , not possible with man , but with God  all things are possible   in that    thinking of faith

   but to the ones   whom   can grasp  metaphorical   meanings  and symbolism  in the bible like a code  of hidden manna  ,  like angels food , spiritual in nature  , the scriptures bring a joy    that surpasses   the literal   interpretations      , that  have meanings for sure   , but lack   the very substance of faith  in hope and love  in my own opinion   , because it is tasting the things of God in the here and now   and to me thay are the true treasures that no man can  steal or take from you , those things  that God has given   you ,   that peace  and joy   that keeps you enduring to the end   

   the fish are  spiritual in meaning as a hope  , like fishers of men  , you hope,  they are made good by the hope of glory  to God  and  fulfilling  the WORD OF GOD 
  we read all the fish in the sea died  as a dead man  The second poured out his bowl into the sea. It turned to blood like that of a dead person, and all life in the sea died.,  there hope was  destroyed   in my opinion ..

When Jesus sent Peter to get a coin out of the fishes mouth   to pay the temple tax ,Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours."


Here is what helped me to understand   some of the hidden meanings  , it was   Jesus  was  giving everyone whom wanted to work for a penny a days wage   , and a day is a meaning of itself   ,   and many come on the last hour and received the same wage   and many were upset as they bore the heat of the day  , I see a day and our day or time to work  in the Lord   and given   life  by Him   ,    the things was Jesus said  ,why do you   imply I am evil   for giving  everyone the same wage ,
Can I DO WHAT I WANT with my own things !

  Everyone knows the wages of sin is death , but  the work in Gods vineyard   is a days wage and  Life /purpose   in meaning to me ...

  the honeycomb is the sweetness in our mouths to share the gospel of the good news   of our Lord Jesus Christ 
  and the  wounds   are   the suffering for the sake of GODS  Kingdom and fulfilling Gods Word as the continual daily  sacrifice as well as the prize ,   that is to be just LIKE JESUS  , not above but like Him in this world     and be made known   in the heavens as  a faithful servant , none is above His master .

just a few thoughts  sparked by this   thread and    the sharing their  thoughts  also .

[marie glen]

:thumbsup: David and sheila.

adapted from biblestudytools.com

Mild/partial and/or moderate preterism holds that most of the prophecies of Revelation were fulfilled in either the fall of Jerusalem (A.D. 70) or the fall of the Roman Empire (A.D. 476), but the Second Coming of Christ and resurrection of believers is yet future. This form of preterism.. is the most frequent view encountered in our day.

Full or extreme preterism holds that all the prophecies of Revelation are already fulfilled, that we are currently living spiritually in the "new heavens and new earth" and denies a future bodily return of Jesus.....believe that "the second coming MUST HAVE already occurred, since it was one of the things predicted in the O.T. which had to be fulfilled by the time Jerusalem was destroyed" . . . This means there will never be a future second coming, for it already occurred in A. D. 70. Further, there will be no bodily resurrection of believers.. Full preterists say . . . we are now living in what we would call the eternal state or the new heavens and new earth of Revelation Rev. 21:1+-Rev. 22:1+.

I think that perfectly describes Matthew 24..

I think also the idea of the book of revelation as full futurist is way off.. Especially future from now.. the way it's packed into a box..

[DavidFord]

:thumbsup: David and sheila.

adapted from biblestudytools.com

Mild/partial and/or moderate preterism holds that most of the prophecies of Revelation were fulfilled in either the fall of Jerusalem (A.D. 70) or the fall of the Roman Empire (A.D. 476), but the Second Coming of Christ and resurrection of believers is yet future. This form of preterism.. is the most frequent view encountered in our day.

Full or extreme preterism holds that all the prophecies of Revelation are already fulfilled, that we are currently living spiritually in the "new heavens and new earth" and denies a future bodily return of Jesus.....believe that "the second coming MUST HAVE already occurred, since it was one of the things predicted in the O.T. which had to be fulfilled by the time Jerusalem was destroyed" . . . This means there will never be a future second coming, for it already occurred in A. D. 70. Further, there will be no bodily resurrection of believers.. Full preterists say . . . we are now living in what we would call the eternal state or the new heavens and new earth of Revelation Rev. 21:1+-Rev. 22:1+.

I think that perfectly describes Matthew 24..

I think also the idea of the book of revelation as full futurist is way off.. Especially future from now.. the way it's packed into a box..

"the idea of the book of revelation as full futurist is way off"  Especially when Revelation's depiction of the devil's being cast out of heaven, and of Jesus' birth, clearly already occurred.  Much of Revelation-- but not all-- has occurred in our material realm of existence.
Also, the events Jesus prophesied about in Mt 24 already occurred. 

_The End of An Era: Rediscovering A Hidden History_ (2016) by Ana Mendez Ferrell, 171pp., on 63
https://www.amazon.com/End-Era-Rediscovering-Hidden-History/dp/1933163828/
When I read these 7 books [_The Wars of the Jews_ by Flavius Josephus], I was perplexed at seeing the accuracy of the words Jesus used to prophesy the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the era.  Everything was vividly narrated by Josephus.

[DavidFord]

God made a covenant with Israel, but people couldn't fulfill their end of the arrangement and kept wandering away from God.  God introduced a New Covenant, thereby making [Heb 8:13]"the first old," about which the author of Hebrews observed, "that which is outdated and old is near destruction."  In the New Covenant, God does the hard work (which people failed miserably at) of changing peoples' hearts to be godly.  With the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in A.D. 70, priests ceased offering old covenant sacrifices, and the outdated old covenant was definitively destroyed.  Jesus returned to earth around that time, and is now all people's High Priest-- not just Israel's.  Being [Heb 2:17]"a compassionate and trustworthy High Priest," Jesus made [Heb 2:17]"atonement for the sins of the people."  Jesus has [Heb 2:9]"tasted death in the place of every person."

Heb 8 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/hebrews/8.htm
4 And if he were on Earth, he would not be a Priest, because there have been Priests who have been offering gifts according to what is in The Law,
5 Those who serve the form and the shadow of these things that are in Heaven, as it was said to Moses when he made The Tabernacle, "See and do everything by the image that appeared to you on the mountain."
6 Now Yeshua The Messiah has received the Ministry which is better than that, as The Covenant of which he is made The Mediator is better, and it is given with better promises than that.
7 For if the first one had been without fault, then there would have been no place for this second one.
8 For he found fault with them, and he said, "Behold, the days are coming, says THE LORD JEHOVAH [Aramaic: MrYa, i.e. Master YHWH], and I will perfect a New Covenant for the family of the house of Israel and for the family of the house of Judah."
9 "Not like that Covenant that I gave to their fathers in the day when I took their hands and brought them from the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in my Covenant; I also rejected them, says THE LORD JEHOVAH."[Aramaic: MrYa, i.e. Master YHWH]
10 "But this is The Covenant that I shall give to the family of the house of Israel: 
After those days, says THE LORD JEHOVAH [Aramaic: MrYa, i.e. Master YHWH],
I shall put my law in their minds
and upon their hearts I shall write it,
and I shall be to them a God,
and they shall be to me a people."
11 "And a man will not teach a citizen of his city, neither his brother, and say,
'Know THE LORD JEHOVAH',[Aramaic: MrYa, i.e. Master YHWH]
because they shall all know me,
from their little ones and unto their Elders."
12 "And I shall purge them of their evils,
and I shall not remember their sins again."
13 *In that he said, "New", he has made the first old, and that which is outdated and old is near destruction.*

Hebrews 2 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
5 For it was not to Angels that he subjected the future world, about which we are speaking;
6 But as The Scripture testifies and says,
"What is a man, that you remember him,
and the son of man that you care for him?"
7 "You have brought him a little lower than The Angels.
You have placed glory and honor on his head
and you have authorized him over the works of your hands."
8 "You have subjected all things under his feet."
But by this, that He subjected everything to him, it does not leave anything which is not subjected; but now, we do not yet see that everything is subjected to him.
9 But we see that he is Yeshua, who became a little lower than the Angels for the suffering of his death, and glory and honor are placed upon his head, for God himself, by his grace, tasted death in the place of every person.
10 For it was fitting for him by whom are all things and for whom are all things, and bringing many children into the glory, that The Prince of their life would perfect himself by his suffering.
11 For he who makes holy and they who are made holy are all of one; therefore, he is not ashamed to call them his brothers,
12 When he said, "I shall announce your name to my brethren and within the church I shall glorify you."
13 And again, "I will trust in him", and again, "Behold, I and the children whom God has given me."
14 For because the children shared together in flesh and blood, he also shared in these things in the same form, so that by his death he would destroy the one who had held the authority of death, who is Satan,
15 And he would free those who, by the fear of death, all their lives were subjected to bondage.
16 For death was not authorized over the Angels,
but death was authorized over the seed of Abraham.
17 Because of this, it was right that he would become like his brethren in all things, that he would be a compassionate and trustworthy High Priest in what is God's, and would make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 For in this, because he has suffered and was tempted, he can help those who are tempted.

[marie glen]

Amen! He is the High Priest! Literal and spiritual. And He is "forever preeminent" Colossians 1:18. And one day He will hand the kingdom over to the Father, having subdued all things! So the Father will be all in all! (1 Cor. 15:22-->28)

The all in all 'event' (?) = Rev.21:1-5?

[DavidFord]

Most of the book of Revelation was fulfilled by the end of A.D. 70.  There's a nice chart of judgments of the seals, trumpets, and bowls in Revelation correlated with the judgments prophesied to come on Israel in the last days, on pages 157-8 of
_How The End Times Ended In AD 70:  An Optimistic View of The Last Days_ (2018)
https://www.amazon.com/How-End-Times-Ended-Optimistic/dp/1722662794/

[marie glen]

With such a claim should be included, imo.. or I believe.. etc.. :gsmile:

I can see many things of the Book of Revelation big as you please all around us..

And I think there is still more belief that revelation was written close to the end of the century, 90 to 95 a.d. than so much earlier.

And it's called "Consummation of the ages".. "hour of trial to try all upon Earth.."


I've seen a lot of charts.. Biggest thing missed is it's not strictly in order.. has a couple of meanwhiles.. Some inserts.. And at least 2 locks.

https://bibleprophecy4today.blogspot.com/

         BOOK OF REVELATION ~ IN PICTURES -
               https://bibleprophecy4today.blogspot.com/2016/10/book-of-revelation-in-pictures-lesson.html
         Where In Bible Prophecy ~ Are We Now?! - right column, home page
         REVELATION IN POEM / 8 Revelation Riddles In The Middle Of The Night -
              https://bibleprophecy4today.blogspot.com/p/eight-revelation-riddles-in-middle-of.html

But the main point for this UR forum, to me, anyway, is how it's the church of the Philadelphians (Greek, of brotherly love) that the Lord said He would keep safe from the hour of trial which is going to test all upon earth.. I know many make that an inner only thing.. (there's a fondness, I think, for putting Revelation in a box.. and we've devised a few of them..)

And whatever plays out.. the main thing is "God is the savior of all".. No matter what man can devise to do to himself. :laughing7:

God wins. And He wins all. :cloud9: :Peace2:

[jabcat]

With such a claim should be included, imo.. or I believe.. etc.. :gsmile:

I can see many things of the Book of Revelation big as you please all around us..

And I think there is still more belief that revelation was written close to the end of the century, 90 to 95 a.d. than so much earlier.

But the main point for this UR forum, to me, anyway, is how it's the church of the Philadelphians (Greek, of brotherly love) that the Lord said He would keep safe from the hour of trial which is going to test all upon earth..

And whatever plays out.. the main thing is "God is the savior of all".. No matter what man can devise to do to himself. :laughing7:

:thumbsup: marie

[Patinak]

Bamboozled Believers, copyright 2015 by Michael Biehler was one of the first books I read in regards to fulfilled prophecy.  I think his information is right on, however he seems to hold a grudge against what he calls "futurists".  At the writing of his book, he was not a U.R. believer.  Maybe he has seen The Light since then. 

[marie glen]

I think if we continue to read the scriptures it will all be cleared up..

Without the Book of Revelation, I think Obadiah verse 15 sums it up.. 15 For near [is] the day of Jehovah, on all the nations, As thou hast done, it is done to thee, Thy deed doth turn back on thine own head. Which I think refers to modern nations as well as those in the past.

Mostly I think of the bible as one story, from beginning to end, alpha to omega, a to z.. which I tend to think of from Genesis to Revelation/consummation.. I could be wrong of course. In which case, continuing to read God's Word should clear things up quite tidily. :gsmile: But i definitely do NOT think Revelation, is 100% future!