2 lonely consenting adults? :sigh: :violin: :gimmefive:
Its all right saying - "Get married, lest ye burn", :LoveH1: but noone wants to get married these days....especially to me lol. :pointlaugh:
Relationships without comittment have always been a problem.
Supposing it was a committment Paul? :HeartThrob:
Albeit, not a marriage, but a commitment none the less, an agreement between two people. :bgdance:
Im not sure what you mean by 'Relationships without comittment have always been a problem', but I do know that most married people I know regret getting married and consider their marriage much of the time, 'a problem'. :thewife: :swordfight:
I certainly couldnt be stuck with the same person my whole life...People change....What was once compatible can and does over time (most of it) become incompatable (from what ive seen).... I may as well be honest on my thoughts about this.
In fact my own self last year is a completely different person altogether than the 'me' of this year.... :dontknow:
In fact to be damn right truthful, i very much doubt the 'me' of today would really get on with the 'me' of last year....
It takes me to look at my own ugly mush everyday. :laughing7:
Quote from: friendofmankind on January 29, 2010, 08:20:23 PM
Supposing it was a committment Paul? :HeartThrob:
You state that you couldn't spend your life with the same person, so could you explain what you mean by committed?
Fornication is clearly stated a sin in the New Testament. Something we are to avoid and if we fall into the sin, confess it and seek deliverance.
The Spirit and soul are betrothed when engaged to be married, this usually takes place before unification; the marriage.
"Let us rejoice and be glad, giving the glory to Him (the SPIRIT), for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice. And so this joy of mine has been made full. But "I am anxious for you with the deep concern of God himself, anxious that your love should be for the Spirit, just as a pure maiden saves her love for one man only, for the one who will be her husband. But I am frightened, fearing that in some way you will be led away from your pure and simple devotion, as Eve deceives herself.
"Trust Him to provide a spouse, who is clothed in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the Saints."
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on January 29, 2010, 08:59:53 PM
Quote from: friendofmankind on January 29, 2010, 08:20:23 PM
Supposing it was a committment Paul? :HeartThrob:
You state that you couldn't spend your life with the same person, so could you explain what you mean by committed?
Committed to me, means being committed to someone, as in loyal to them, whether that be for a month or a lifetime.
For example, in my job I was 'committed' to tend to someones garden, but when that person broke the committment off, (because they moved house and no longer required a gardener)...the committment ended...Which was fair enough.
A cop could be 'committed' to his job, and then suddenly become a Christian, and have no more drive to do the job but rather become a pastor and so give up the job as policeman and end his committment to the police force....etc etc...
If both parties feel that their 'committment' is not going anywhere and is making each others life worse instead of better (and those around them) (negative instead of posiive) and the problems cannot be sorted,, i believe that they should part ways...It makes sense to me....Or else they would be staying together for ALL THE WRONG REASONS, (im not even going to bring up the unhappy home life for the kids) and i certainly wouldnt praise them for 'sticking it out' and making each other unhappy, I would just think they were foolish and likewise, i wouldnt say to the cop "STAY A COP YOU MADE A COMMITMENT TO THE FORCE!" IF he didnt want too. Or if someone was committed to the armed forces and then decided that they just couldnt go to IRAQ and start shooting people, then I would say "Good on the them....it wasnt for them...move on".
Im just trying to see the logic in denouncing fornication as a sin, specially when no-one really gets married anymore and we have a sex drive just as powerful (or pretty damn close) to our very survival instinct which cant just be turned off and on, unless you want to crack up anytime soon, and of course the fact that two adults cant share their bodies if they have a commitment going and do in fact 'love' each other.....I mean, by nature, its just gona happen isnt it? Brave-heroic-Christian-hero-soldier or not. You cant turn off your survival instinct, and i dont care what anyone says, you CANNOT turn off your sex drive or the need to 'share' with another human being.
Its hard enough dealing with the lonelyness of being gay...add to that being a Christian!
A GAY CHRISTIAN!
And then add to that a gay UNIVERSALIST Christian!
Im the scum of the earth to the world! Hated NOT only in church for being gay, but for being a universalist too, and do you think gays speak fondly of the Christians that tell them they are gona burn in hell? They avoid Christians like the plague.
And not only do i have to NOT BE gay, but i have to be straight and committed to a woman according to mainstream Christians!
My chances arent that good lets face it. :laughing7:
:cloud9: The truth of the matter is, what is not possible with man IS possible with God and His Spirit. The soul is composed of 4 parts; mind, will, emotions and DESIRES. Total surrender to the Spirit means the soul allows Him union with all of "her", INCLUDING desires.
Eve DESIRED the fruit, because it LOOKED PLEASANT, which was the root of the fall, and so our desires have to bow the knee to the Spirit. Compare Eve with what Daniel said about how he would eat no PLEASANT bread, ie. Word that costs nothing.
If you want to know the true strength of desire, ask the Lord to put you on an extended fast. I'm not talking desire manifested as the simple hunger pains of the body for food here, I'm talking desire raised up as a primal portion of our make-up as a living soul (or soul that has life) from the fall. The "dark night" of the soul, really IS darkness. Blessings.....
Quote from: Cardinal on January 29, 2010, 10:57:47 PM
:cloud9: The truth of the matter is, what is not possible with man IS possible with God and His Spirit. The soul is composed of 4 parts; mind, will, emotions and DESIRES. Total surrender to the Spirit means the soul allows Him union with all of "her", INCLUDING desires.
Eve DESIRED the fruit, because it LOOKED PLEASANT, which was the root of the fall, and so our desires have to bow the knee to the Spirit. Compare Eve with what Daniel said about how he would eat no PLEASANT bread, ie. Word that costs nothing.
If you want to know the true strength of desire, ask the Lord to put you on an extended fast. I'm not talking desire manifested as the simple hunger pains of the body for food here, I'm talking desire raised up as a primal portion of our make-up as a living soul (or soul that has life) from the fall. The "dark night" of the soul, really IS darkness. Blessings.....
I still dont see how fornication is a sin Card?
Its like having a ferrari and not being allowed to drive it, it just seems stupid.
Looking at things from another angle,
If i poke someone in the eye...I deserve to be punished.
If i lie to someone, again, i deserve to be punished.
Cheat, steal, murder,....punish punish punish.
BECAUSE I HAVE DONE THESE PEOPLE A WRONG!
Now...
...Two committed people who love each other having sex? ..... Why the punishment?
WHAT HAVE THEY DONE that deserves 'punishment'?
Some would say "Its against Gods law", and rightly so, but again, thats not the point here...If something doesnt make sense i question it. God or not, in fact its through that kind of thinking that eventually led me to Universalism, because when something doesnt smell right i ask questions.
Did God really think that most of his creation with an inbuilt sex drive (which HE GAVE THEM) was going to live like little bishops all their days and that they would all get married (an impossibility in itself, there are places people hasnt even heard the word), and stay with one partner ALL their lives, even if supposing that one of them turned into a rapist (or worse). (Never mind that STAND BY YOUR MAN!) Or he starts to beat the crap out of her, or she turns to drugs and he cant live with her anymore. Oh but STAY TOGETHER! You made a COMMITMENT! Go home and let him rape you and beat the crap out of you and the kids! THE COMMITMENT! REMEMBER THE COMMITMENT!
Well....I for one live in the real world, and i dont talk in spiritual hog wash holy talk (forbidden apples and happy talking snakes) for the reason that; in the real world its actually no help to anyone.
As Captain Kirk once said "Why does God need a starship"?
So I am asking, "Why is fornication a sin".
Because until i can see it as one, i wont be treating it as one.
I have rejected a lot of things in my life (including other religions) because they made NO sense, and so I reject this, because i cannot see the sense in it.
Two people, love each other, committed, ready to do it, then he says
"Lets not, lets just go home to our own houses and stay alone all night and miserable and forsake our EVIL worthless human desires that God kindly gave us...even though we could be dead the next day".
Urgh im off on a date.
It matters much less what you, I, or anyone else thinks than what God thinks and says. IMO, any time the scriptures are as clear on a topic as they are on this one, it doesn't have to make sense, feel good, or please my carnal mind and flesh for it to be something I need to humble myself over, ask God for help with it, and crucify my flesh. It may not immediately feel good, but if we believe the scriptures, including that God works all things to good, then IMO, the two options are that God either eventually drags us kicking, screaming, and suffering the consequences for our rebellious sinful behavior (the broad road of destruction - saved as by fire) or we bow before Him, submit, and be a willing vessel for Him to flow through; thus receiving His peace, joy, comfort, and the blessing of a clean conscience. I've had both - a defiled conscience, and a clean(er) one. I can attest that a defiled conscience is miserable.
Whether that's this particular issue of fornication, active homosexuality, gluttony, lust, pride, etc., etc., then I believe that's us taking up our cross and following Him - and He rewards those that diligently seek Him. I have my own battles of the flesh of sin - for one it's one thing, for another something else. Sometimes I fail, sometimes I submit and He brings me closer to Him and matures me a little more.
Is our heart - mine included - to please Him, or rather to find some way around things that fits our flesh and sinful desires? Sometimes mine's pure, sometimes not - but I don't have to "accept" what God says, or decide I'm going to "treat it as" right for it to be true nonetheless. We all reap what we sow. "because he who is sowing to his own flesh, of the flesh shall reap corruption; and he who is sowing to the Spirit, of the Spirit shall reap life age-during"...Galatians 6:8
Sorry People , But the sinfullness bull dung is really making me sick to hear all the time in the UR people IMO, IF you don't understand, Point blank,
:hammerhead: :Violinhit: IF YOU ARE IN CHRIST, YOU HAVE "BEEN" RAPTURED IN THE NEW LIFE WHERE THERE IS no SIN...NEVER CAN BE, THE NEW CREATION, DON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS, MAKE CONFESSION, BE BAPTIZED IN A RIVER, ETC...
But for all those that want to live under the rule of God Law, good luck with that.... :bottlebump:
Lee Damboise II
Lee, go through and see all the times Paul talked to the church about sin, the flesh, etc., then get back with me. I can give you many specific examples if you want.
I agree we are not to dwell on the dark side of things, and that there is a balance we may not understand at times. But I am not willing to go against the whole of scripture and go to the extreme to which you have gone.
P.S. This is not a place where open sin will be allowed to be encouraged and taught without appropriate scriptural rebuttal. And if someone doesn't even believe in sin at all and constantly attempts to teach/expound such? That may require some further consideration...
I don't teach no sin, I don't say that all people are where I am yet, I simply say that I am not a follower of Law, and IT takes Law to make sin....
people live where they live.
but don't forget the prime directive! live- there is NO LIFE IN DEATH EVER
Lee, there are MANY things I don't understand, but perhaps it's you that doesn't understand some things about this particular topic as well. Just because one believes the New Testament, including Paul's many admonitions to the church about sin, the dangers and consequences of living for and sowing to the flesh, DOES NOT MEAN ONE IS TRYING TO LIVE BY THE LAW. If you can, separate that in your mind.
We are now under grace, the free gift. We cannot be good enough IN and OF OURSELVES. It MUST be Christ who has renewed us through the new birth (spiritual) and then Who works HIS righteousness through us. Paul talked about a body of sin and death in which he dwelt, while at the same time relying on God's mercy and grace to forgive him, and deliver him. I have actually agreed with you to some point in an area of this, as I wonder about this particular thing myself - how Paul said it was no longer him that did it, but the sin that dwelled in him. However, he did not say there was no sin, or that we had no responsibility for obedience - that we should just give in to the law of sin and death, don't worry about it, it's all good, God doesn't care. He made it clear there were consequences, we'd reap what we sow, and that some were to be delivered to satan that their spirit may be saved "as by fire" in the day of the Lord.
So again, just because someone attempts (in a feeble way) to take in the whole counsel of God - and not just find one or 2 pet doctrines and cling to them at the expense of all others - does not mean they also believe in trying to justify themselves by the Law. It's a matter of the reconciliation of the scriptures - admittedly we all see through a glass darkly - but at least let's make an effort to take the whole of scripture into account.
Take care, James.
This was just posted by Eaglesway, and very worth reading.
AND if a person is IN Christ, you are new and not under sin - Law, too.
Paul speaks of a better way, it 'might' be this better way he is expecting...?
Rom 1:17-22 For the righteousness of God in it(the good news, vs 16) is revealed from faith to faith, according as it hath been written, `And the righteous one by faith shall live,' for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness. Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead--to their being inexcusable; because, having known God they did not glorify Him as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened, professing to be wise, they were made fools,
It would first appear in Romans chapter one that Paul is judging unbelievers for sins of the flesh, and this is how it is usually taught. As we know there were no chapters and verses in the original manuscripts. If we do not break the Logos up in this way, we see in Romans one and two together(and onward) a clear revelation of how God judges and reveals His discernment of all men. The real target of this early portion of Romans is those who condemn and control others, and justify it as if they fulfilled the law in their own conduct and knowledge of God. This point is made in the statement "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen".
Men are judged/discerned by the divine nature. God gave the written law to Israel to establish equity and mercy and life, so that they would be a lampstand to the nations revealing the love and justice of God. The leaders stripped the law of all its provisions for fairness and mercy (swallowing camels) and hung a bunch of additions and misinterpretations upon it(straining at gnats) in order to "suppress the truth in unrighteousness", and maintain their unrighteous stewardship over the people. As their "knowing God"(partakers of the divine nature, heart relation) was replaced by "knowing about God" (mind driven gnostic legalism and self righteousness) they became darkened in their understanding. Why? Because those who are the flesh cannot receive the things of God's spirit for it is foolishness to them. If you take the Spirit of the lawgiver(divine nature) out of the law, it becomes lawlessness. The letter deals death. The Spirit gives life because it is the Spirit that imparts the divine nature(fruits of the Spirit). Anyone who is a ruler in this age cannot receive the hidden wisdom(1 Cor 2:7). The hidden wisdom is that which is revealed unto babes- those who receive the kingdom(patakers of the divine nature) in meekness as a child.
Rom 2:23-24 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? (24) For "THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU," just as it is written.
(You who boast in your understanding of the word, when you reject the love of God, do you dishonor God? Because of you the way is evil spoken of among the unbelievers)
This verse was written to a group of people in Paul's time, but it reveals an eternal truth to all men. If we translate this statement to modern Christians, recognizing that if you want to be justified by the law (religious knowledge and works), you must keep ALL of the law. In other words, if I call myself "Christian" and proclaim everyone else (not doctrinally acceptable or "Christian" as I define it) bound for condemnation because they don't "know Jesus"- while living as if we don't "know Jesus"(not flowing the divine nature), I am the people Paul is writing to. The underlying principle(regarding legalism & hypocrisy) is the truth- not the detail of who Paul was writing to(the Hebrews). Knowing that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", the ones who claim to "know God" and "to be teachers of the blind" ought to embrace the inclusive mercy of God and exclaim it as the "good news" of which Paul was not ashamed. The gospel of those who fail to discern the eternal power and divine nature of God is one which shames every compassionate soul. In understanding the deeper meaning in Romans early chapters, some more of this "good news" is revealed.
Rom 2:26-29 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
If you make some substitutions and read it like this
Rom 2:26-29 So if the unknowledgeable man keeps the requirements of Christ's love, will not his ignorance be regarded as wisdom? And he who is unknowledgeable, if he walks in love, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Bible and intellectual awareness are a transgressor of Christ's love? For he is not a Christian who is one outwardly, nor is the love of God that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Christian who is one inwardly; and God's love is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
In such an understanding you receive the underlying principle- the "absolute being" of the Logos. In this light our gnostic(knowledge based religion) defenses break down. Our "lip service" no longer shields us and our understanding is illuminated. Then we are hesitant to judge others, as we should be, because only God knows the secrets of men's hearts- and he surely knows ours. There will be many who will despise such an understanding however, straining at the gnats(words, the letter) and swallowing the camels(understanding from the heart). The reason they reject understanding is that it sets men free from the dominion of their religion. It takes away their authority for condemning everyone who is on the outside of their understanding. It diminishes the scope of their unrighteous power with which they "suppress the truth in unrighteousness".
Making the same substitutions a little further on in Paul's discourse on how God judges....
Rom 2:14-16 For when people who do not have the intellectual awareness do instinctively the things that Jesus commands, these, not having the Law of God's love, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of God's law of love written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
Only the arbitrary, religious, letter-bound intellect believes that God is arbitrarily judging all men based on an outer shell of doctrine. Especially when it is so poorly filled with compassion as today's Western fundamentalist Christianity. This is the modern Pharisee. The New Legalist. He is a superficial reader of the Bible, ignorant of the deeper streams of conscience contained in the law of Moses, the writings of the prophets and the words of Jesus and the apostles. It is important to note the fact that in the midst of these organizations there are always people of good heart. But as always, it is the organization that enforces the letter. In order to promote themselves against "the competiton" (other organizations) they elevate peripheral truths, cut them out of whole cloth, and create strongholds and fortresses that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God (which is partaking of the divine nature James 3:15-17; 2 Cor 3:) and condemn all who are on the "outside" of their understanding.
All the while, it is not the head knowledge God approves, it is the manifestation of His love. "I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and in prison and you visited me." "Love one another". "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ."
2Pe 1:4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises(powerful statements of grace), so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature(flow the love of the Father and Christ Jesus in the Spirit), having escaped the corruption(of character) that is in the world by lust(the desire for recognition, praise, dominion over men and /or wealth).
More substitutions ( I know, I'm endangering my soul by corrupting the letter with the true meaning, pray for me)
2Co 3:14-18 But their minds are hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the Bible the same veil remains unlifted, because it is only removed in the spirit of wisdom and revelation in Christ. So to this day whenever the Scriptures are read, a veil remains covering the eyes and ears of their hearts; but whenever a person begins to seek the Lord with their whole being in spirit and in truth, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is the total freedom that comes when the divine nature equips us to love God and man. Now we all who are so equipped by the Spirit, having the veil removed through intimate contact with Jesus (seeing the I AM as He is), beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord (fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith), are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory(progressively by grace to the glory of His grace), because the Lord loves us, and is in us liberally by the Spirit doing the work(Php 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus).
In this light , the overcomer is the one who abides "in Christ", the true vine, as a partaker of the divine nature(flowing the love of God and Christ to God and man) bearing fruit that will remain (eternal fruit). If we fall away from that "first love" into religious works and mind driven, knowledge based Christianity, the day will reveal it, and the fire will consume the works of wood, hay and stubble.
I don't see eaglesway as encouraging sin, ignoring God's commands, advocating that we live according to and pleasing the flesh. IMO, if we are truly IN CHRIST, the evidences will be apparent - Christ's works of righteousness will be on display. This is different than our fleshly attempts at righteousness, which fail miserably; but it will look much different than "anything goes"/sowing to the flesh mentality. I don't believe we should throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Mod Note - Realizing there are many sincere questions about things, and also many things that are not clear-cut, black-and-white, easily understood, matters of interpretation, etc. (as stated before) if anyone is truly interested in overcoming the flesh in problematic areas, and honestly wants help and support in doing so, any of the mods would be glad to discuss things more by PM. However, if anyone just wants to inflame the boards with things that are clearly anti-scriptural, not being willing to listen to scriptural counsel - and, especially anything not clearly related to UR/the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ, then Gary does not want TM used for such things.
Quote from: Lee Damboise on January 30, 2010, 02:26:14 AM
Sorry People , But the sinfullness bull dung is really making me sick to hear all the time in the UR people IMO, IF you don't understand, Point blank,
:hammerhead: :Violinhit: IF YOU ARE IN CHRIST, YOU HAVE "BEEN" RAPTURED IN THE NEW LIFE WHERE THERE IS no SIN...NEVER CAN BE, THE NEW CREATION, DON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS, MAKE CONFESSION, BE BAPTIZED IN A RIVER, ETC...
But for all those that want to live under the rule of God Law, good luck with that.... :bottlebump:
Lee Damboise II
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
Paul understood, he was no longer under the Law. He also understood who he represented!
Your actions 'in Christ' show whom you represent, especially when all things are lawful!
Fornication exposes your understanding of
All things are lawful. Give in and you will learn the truth of "not all things are profitable or edify" the hard way.
After the resurrection Lee... Jesus said... Rev 2:11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Overcomes what? The law... No, the world!
Paul
Quote from: jabcat on January 30, 2010, 05:38:20 AM
I don't see eaglesway as encouraging sin, ignoring God's commands, advocating that we live according to and pleasing the flesh. IMO, if we are truly IN CHRIST, the evidences will be apparent - Christ's works of righteousness will be on display. This is different than our fleshly attempts at righteousness, which fail miserably; but it will look much different than "anything goes"/sowing to the flesh mentality. I don't believe we should throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I think YOU are refering to a certan set of commandment/rules/Laws/or
sins when you say "anything goes" here.
I will try to make it clear here, " I do what is good, I don't get made at anyone for harming me, I help all people I can in my limited income, I dress according to what my city sees as normal, I cut my hair so as to not offend the natives, I give extreme respect to all I come in contact with, I love mostly all people and things because of God, I am calm , caring , thoughtful, knowing of somethings, missing in others/but the latter is the first step to fixing issues. all the above is to be a conduit of Grace "" The Devine Influence Upon the 'humen' Heart and its reflection of that LIFE""
when I walk talk and be, it is to show God in Men.
All the above was not me when I was living in the life that people call sin, or to the flesh, God :HeartThrob:Lives through me now-here-in this earth :HeartThrob: I am truly sorry if some of the
rulers of this forum don't like my thinking. But truly if I choose to use my bible for heat to keep warm this winter in the stove then I would have no problem with that because I rely more on His understanding then well more than the average 99.99999 could never understand. 99.9 % can't even come close to an inkling of understanding of the bible in any form/version. Maybe its time to through out the bible with the wash water and rely on Father.
Lee Damboise II
Quote from: Lee Damboise on January 30, 2010, 09:55:14 AM
I am truly sorry if some of the rulers of this forum don't like my thinking. But truly if I choose to use my bible for heat to keep warm this winter in the stove then I would have no problem with that because I rely more on His understanding then well more than the average 99.99999 could never understand. 99.9 % can't even come close to an inkling of understanding of the bible in any form/version. Maybe its time to through out the bible with the wash water and rely on Father.Lee Damboise II
:cloud9: Lee, please read the forum rules, specifically, "What you MAY NOT DO". This paragraph violates the forum rules as well as the owner of the forum's personal wishes regarding any comments "dissing" of the Bible or throwing out of the scriptures.
It has nothing to do with anyone harboring any ill will towards you at all, but this will be the final warning and further forays into violating the board rules and the owner's mandates, will result in a ban without further notice. Thank you for your cooperation. Card
Lee, if you don't know it yet, I'll tell you, that I care about you and empathize that life apparently hasn't been easy. But why do you say these things? I believe by making statements such as there is no sin, a man who had sex with another man didn't sin he just offended the religious, and indicating it would be OK to throw away the Bible, really isn't helping people live the life of an overcomer – pressing forward toward the mark, etc. You have said how much you like J. Preston Eby. He doesn't advocate a "son of God" living his life to satisfy the flesh. He often says quite the opposite.
Paul's writings are FULL of him talking about things like crucifying the flesh, him struggling with sin (the things I want I don't do/the things I don't want those I do,etc.). I just went through earlier tonight and found several scriptures of Paul condemning sexual immorality, including fornication and homosexuality.
Lee, 2 things. If you DON'T see things the way I've just said I perceive, then please explain very clearly what you do believe. Because right now it's appearing to at least several, that by your beliefs you are in fact (if not directly, then indirectly) advocating sin by saying there IS no sin to worry about. Again, if that's not correct, then please take the time and make the effort to very clearly lay out what it is you do believe. 'Cause, honestly, right now, it's not looking like it's a very good idea for you to be encouraging people in some of the things it at least appears that you're encouraging them in – especially newbies and/or those struggling with things like this open, accepted, active homosexual lifestyle issue.
Secondly, I'm going to list some verses, that seem to clearly contradict some of the things you've said. If you'd like, please explain how you see these verses if you believe I/we are somehow missing something. (Again, I'm NOT advocating following the Law, I DO believe in grace through faith, the gift of God – but I DO believe we are to humble ourselves before God, as He shapes our will to His, and to seek to walk in obedience before Him – looking to HIM for our strength and to live through us. Again, NOT THE LAW that makes us righteous – it's Jesus, His blood, His strength, His mercy, His grace.) But He does ASK things of us, as noted in the following scriptures.
Again, I do care about you, as do the others. But we need to reason together, as well as abide by the forum guidelines and expectations. IN FACT, IN A SENSE I HAVE PROBABLY ALLOWED THIS PARTICULAR THREAD TO GO ON LONGER THAN THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE FORUM IDEALLY ALLOW FOR. Maybe we can do some good here with this quickly – if not, we need to move on.
Hebrews 12:14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
I Cor. 6:9, 10 Or aren't you aware that the unjust won't inherit a share of God's Kingdom? You must stop being led astray; neither those who are having nonmarital sexual intercourse...nor those who are having extramarital sexual intercourse, nor those who have a soft, self-indulgent way of life, nor those who are homosexuals, nor those who are thieves, nor those who are greedy, nor those who are drunkards....will inherit a share of God's Kingdom!
I Cor. 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to be mingling wiht those who are having nonmarital sexual intercourse. 10 It positively didn't mean with those of this world who are having nonmarital sexual intercourse...11 I wrote to you not to be mingling with anyone who is being called a brother or sister, if that person is a person who is having nonmarital sexual intercourse...[or] drunkard...[or] takes things by force. You shouldn't even eat [at love feasts] with such a person. Because what responsibility do I have to judge outsiders [unbelievers]? Isn't it those who are inside [believers] that you are to judge? 13 Now God will judge the outsiders. You must expel the wicked person from among yourselves. The Christian Bible (1991)
"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but
fornicators and adulterers God will judge." (He 13:4)
Romans 1:24 Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves;
25who did change the truth of God into a falsehood, and did honour and serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed to the ages. Amen.
26Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature;
27and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving.
28And, according as they did not approve of having God in knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things not seemly;
29having been filled with all unrighteousness, whoredom, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil dispositions; whisperers,
30evil-speakers, God-haters, insulting, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31unintelligent, faithless, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful;
32who the righteous judgment of God having known -- that those practising such things are worthy of death -- not only do them, but also have delight with those practising them.
Quote from: friendofmankind on January 29, 2010, 11:14:18 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on January 29, 2010, 10:57:47 PM
:cloud9: The truth of the matter is, what is not possible with man IS possible with God and His Spirit. The soul is composed of 4 parts; mind, will, emotions and DESIRES. Total surrender to the Spirit means the soul allows Him union with all of "her", INCLUDING desires.
Eve DESIRED the fruit, because it LOOKED PLEASANT, which was the root of the fall, and so our desires have to bow the knee to the Spirit. Compare Eve with what Daniel said about how he would eat no PLEASANT bread, ie. Word that costs nothing.
If you want to know the true strength of desire, ask the Lord to put you on an extended fast. I'm not talking desire manifested as the simple hunger pains of the body for food here, I'm talking desire raised up as a primal portion of our make-up as a living soul (or soul that has life) from the fall. The "dark night" of the soul, really IS darkness. Blessings.....
I still dont see how fornication is a sin Card?
Its like having a ferrari and not being allowed to drive it, it just seems stupid.
:cloud9: Well, can we agree that He has more wisdom than we do, has our well being in mind, and as such, His statements are to be listened to irregardless of whether we understand them at present or not?
When I was a child I thought the rules of my parents were unjust and silly sometimes. When I matured, I saw that they had my best interests at heart as they wanted to prevent me from harming myself in some way. Is man more righteous than God?
So, for the simplest answer I personally can give regarding fornication, do you yet realize that when it says they are one flesh, it is not just talking about physical bodies? Since there is little understanding out there regarding deliverance and I don't have the computer capabilities at present for long posts, let me just say that anything of the serpent nature contained within the dust of us (the serpent's meat) when joined to another STRENGTHENS THOSE BANDS because it allows for transference.
In regards to adultery, when you sleep with another, lets say the wife of another, since she is one flesh with her husband, you also are joining yourself to her husband without his consent. It's spiritual rape for the innocent husband, just as it is for the innocent wife.
David's sin with Bathsheba did not go unnoticed or unpunished. The thing is, because He has set the law of sowing and reaping into motion, He's not "actively" bringing judgment to us, we bring it to ourselves. Blessings....
Okay , I guess I will just stop posting for a while and reflect on my thinking,
Always Be the exact reflection of God in this life, Grace.
By
Lee Damboise II
Quote from: Pierac on January 30, 2010, 07:13:06 AM
Quote from: Lee Damboise on January 30, 2010, 02:26:14 AM
Sorry People , But the sinfullness bull dung is really making me sick to hear all the time in the UR people IMO, IF you don't understand, Point blank,
:hammerhead: :Violinhit: IF YOU ARE IN CHRIST, YOU HAVE "BEEN" RAPTURED IN THE NEW LIFE WHERE THERE IS no SIN...NEVER CAN BE, THE NEW CREATION, DON'T HAVE TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS, MAKE CONFESSION, BE BAPTIZED IN A RIVER, ETC...
But for all those that want to live under the rule of God Law, good luck with that.... :bottlebump:
Lee Damboise II
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
Paul understood, he was no longer under the Law. He also understood who he represented!
Your actions 'in Christ' show whom you represent, especially when all things are lawful!
Fornication exposes your understanding of All things are lawful. Give in and you will learn the truth of "not all things are profitable or edify" the hard way.
After the resurrection Lee... Jesus said... Rev 2:11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Overcomes what? The law... No, the world!
Paul
I found this really interesting, thank you for this.