Explanation on 1 Cor. 11:32?

[Tim B]

26 For as often as you are eating this bread and drinking this cup, you are announcing the Lord's death until He should be coming.
27 So that, whoever should be eating the bread or drinking the cup of the Lord unworthily, will be liable for the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 Now let a man test himself first, and thus let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who is eating and drinking unworthily is eating and drinking judgment to himself, not discriminating the body of the Lord.
30 Therefore many among you are infirm and ailing, and a considerable number are reposing.
31 For if we adjudicated ourselves, we would not be judged.
32 Yet, being judged, we are being disciplined by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

How should verse 32 be explained? Jesus said he came not to condemn the world, but to save it. How then, can the world be condemned if that wasn't Jesus goal??

Any input would be awesome. Thanks guys!

[WhiteWings]

Condemned and judged have the same meaning.

Yet, being judged, we are being disciplined by the Lord, that we may not be judged with the world.

I read it this way: We ought to be judged with the world but that judging is no longer needed because we are being disciplined.

[Seth]

26 For as often as you are eating this bread and drinking this cup, you are announcing the Lord's death until He should be coming.
27 So that, whoever should be eating the bread or drinking the cup of the Lord unworthily, will be liable for the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 Now let a man test himself first, and thus let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who is eating and drinking unworthily is eating and drinking judgment to himself, not discriminating the body of the Lord.
30 Therefore many among you are infirm and ailing, and a considerable number are reposing.
31 For if we adjudicated ourselves, we would not be judged.
32 Yet, being judged, we are being disciplined by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

How should verse 32 be explained? Jesus said he came not to condemn the world, but to save it. How then, can the world be condemned if that wasn't Jesus goal??

Any input would be awesome. Thanks guys!

Greek doesn't have as many words as English, as far as I know. English is one of the languages with the most words. Due to that, there is more opportunity for nuance of meaning even among synonyms.

In one sense you are right, Jesus said "I came not to condemn (krino - judge) the world" yet God appointed Christ to judge in righteousness.

When Jesus said "I came not to judge the world" it was in response to something the Disciples wanted to do. But did they want to judge in righteousness? No. The wrath of man is not the righteousness of God.

That is the key to understanding the "judge" yet "do not judge" scriptures. Man who judges with MAN's understanding and according to MAN's discernment, should judge not. But Christ judges in righteousness..

Due to the few number of words in Greek, we must look at context to see in what manner we should judge and what manner we should not, because in languages which have fewer words have less opportunity to use synonyms to convey differences in intended meaning according to nuance.

With that in mind consider: Jesus did not come to judge the world (according to man's wrath) but that it might be saved through him (from sin, by and through the righteousness judgment of God upon his Sons and the world). God judges us, and he will judge the world, but NOT according to man's ways. However, it is better that the process occur now than later.

JMHO

[chuckt]

Due to the few number of words in Greek

im confused?

in the greek we have: krinō,dikastēs, kritēs,anakrinō,  four greek words translated into ONE english word ""judge""

seems the greek has more, i find this alot, heck, there are 5 greek words translated into ONE english word ""prayer""

many many examples.....

chuckt

[Seth]

What confuses you specifically?

[chuckt]

What confuses you specifically?

WELL...seth....


you said the greek has fewer words, but i showed that there are FOUR greek words for our ONE english word ""judge""

chuckt

[Seth]

How does that affect whether or not there are less Greek words than English?

[chuckt]

How does that affect whether or not there are less Greek words than English?

FOUR GREEK WORDS FOR ONE ENGLISH WORD ""JUDGE""

FIVE GREEK WORDS FOR ONE ENGLISH WORD ""PRAY""

THREE OR FOUR GREEK WORDS FOR ONE ENGLISH WORD """WORLD""

FOUR OR FIVE GREEK WORDS FOR ONE  ENGLISH WORD ""TIME""'

ON AND ON I COULD GO ON.........


im not a mathamatician but seems there are more greek words and definitions than english.

i could be wrong, just trying to understand.

inlove
chuckt

[Seth]

I don't take that to mean that there are more Greek words than English...just that there is some inconsistent translating from the KJV.

[chuckt]

I don't take that to mean that there are more Greek words than English...just that there is some inconsistent translating from the KJV.

no doubt.

and in fact there are about 700,000 greek words and over one million english words, but this has NOTHING to do with the scriptures.

but i will end here.

peace
chuckt

[Seth]

Well, because there are less words in Greek, some words are translated from a bigger bucket of english words that affect meaning even if synonymous. This is according to usage which leads to nuance. That is why looking at context can help to see how "krino" should not stand alone, but what KIND of krino should be acknowledged according to how it is being used.

In English we can simply use different but close words to do that job, so contextual analysis is much easier with English when single words can communicate nuance that way.

[rosered]

  That was  a good answer WW , :winkgrin:
I will thow this out there  too ..

Tim says  here ;

For if we adjudicated ourselves, we would not be judged.
32 Yet, being judged, we are being disciplined by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

How should verse 32 be explained? Jesus said he came not to condemn the world, but to save it. How then, can the world be condemned if that wasn't Jesus goal??

Any input would be awesome. Thanks guys!

   I thought of Jesus telling us , judge not unless you be judged
  on the same  standard we judge others, we also will  go though the same measurment  of a standard set ..
  so showing mercy { a wonderful standard to set as Jesus example ]   would work out best for all  involved   :thumbsup: hee hee
and when we judge ourselves  or let the Lord Judge us we are the better for it , all the way around
   :HeartThrob:rose

[chuckt]

translated from a bigger bucket of english words

HUH?....greek isnt translted FROM english. english is translated FROM greek.

you do realize there are more english words today than 200+ yrs ago? while the greek has stayed the same.

matters not, even english definitions of the same words have changed over time, while the greek remains.


best to always look up in your concordant.


peace
chuckt

[Seth]

translated from a bigger bucket of english words

HUH?....greek isnt translted FROM english. english is translated FROM greek.

you do realize there are more english words today than 200+ yrs ago? while the greek has stayed the same.

matters not, even english definitions of the same words have changed over time, while the greek remains.


best to always look up in your concordant.


peace
chuckt

You are right. I phrased that poorly. I meant translated USING a bigger bucket of English words. And I am not saying that is sound translating.

However, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, that is to say even if words are translated by swapping one English word for one English word (which I am also not saying is the best way) contextual analysis is important to know what the meaning is.

Example:

Joh 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to judge (krino) the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1Co 11:32
But when we are judged (krino), we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be down-judged (katakrino) with the world.

Even when both words are translated consistently, the context shows us what KIND of judgment is being differentiated. If the Greeks language was like English, most likely, a different word would be used for one of the scriptures to communicate that nuance. Since the Greek language doesn't work that way we can look at the context to know that while Christ does not judge the world from a human wrath perspective, he does judge the world with righteousness.

[chuckt]

translated from a bigger bucket of english words

HUH?....greek isnt translted FROM english. english is translated FROM greek.

you do realize there are more english words today than 200+ yrs ago? while the greek has stayed the same.

matters not, even english definitions of the same words have changed over time, while the greek remains.


best to always look up in your concordant.


peace
chuckt

You are right. I phrased that poorly. I meant translated USING a bigger bucket of English words. And I am not saying that is sound translating.

However, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, that is to say even if words are translated by swapping one English word for one English word (which I am also not saying is the best way) contextual analysis is important to know what the meaning is.

Example:

Joh 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to judge (krino) the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1Co 11:32
But when we are judged (krino), we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be down-judged (katakrino) with the world.

Even when both words are translated consistently, the context shows us what KIND of judgment is being differentiated. If the Greeks language was like English, most likely, a different word would be used for one of the scriptures to communicate that nuance. Since the Greek language doesn't work that way we can look at the context to know that while Christ does not judge the world from a human wrath perspective, he does judge the world with righteousness.

thats the same word KRINO in both text, and yes we must look up the word and apply the PROPER definition of that word, as the word has multiple definitions, also being carefull to decern which definitions have been ADDED over the yrs by bias updates of said concordant.

peace
chuckt

[Seth]

Still not sure where you were confused?

[WhiteWings]

My first message appently was written with invisible ink, so I try another explantion. :laughing7:

^KJV 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

^WW 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are set aside, we are teached by the Lord, that we should not be judged guilty with the world.

[eaglesway]

When we are tried/discerned/sued at law, we are trained/disciplined by the Lord that we might not be sentenced with this kosmos

The proper teaching of ultimate reconciliation does not deny (in fact it insists)that "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness"(Romans 1). The issue in question is the nature, purpose, and duration of those punishments that will be laid against the impenitent on the day. Some of those judgments are now,evident in this time(reaping what you sow) "some mens sins go before them into judgment, some follow after"(1 Tim 5:24) "do not go on judging before the time until the Lord comes to bring hidden things to light and makes manifest the counsels(motives, intentions) of the hearts(1 Cor 4:5). Some will be beaten with few stripes, some with many. No one will get out until they have "paid the last penny". Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father.

2Pe 3:4-7  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.  (5)  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:  (6)  Whereby the world(kosmos) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished(Apollumai):  (7)  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment(tribunal) and perdition of ungodly men.

1Pe 3:18-20  For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,  (19)  by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,  (20)  who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
perdition(ruin) of ungodly men.


1Pe 4:4-6  Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:  (5)  Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.  (6)  For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged(sentenced) according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The kosmos is the heavens and the earth.... "the world and all that is is in it" yet we see when God destroyed the kosmos that began in Geneisis 1 and ended in the flood, God did not destroy the substance of the earth but rather those living in that age were judged as men in the flesh and held unto a time(the descent of Christ into Sheol) when they, having paid their debt to society so to speak, received the gospel from Christ himself and were made alive in the spirit unto God.

1Co 5:3-5  For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged (discerned/sentenced) already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,  (4)  In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,  (5)  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh(judged in the flesh as men), that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus(made alive in the spirit unto God).

Here we see the punishment of a man who has committed a serious sin, judged in the flesh as a man that he might be made alive in the spirit unto God "in the day". We do not know what stripes he may be beaten with, or perhaps the forfeiture of his life will be the extent of his punishment. He may lose "his reward".....but the reward is not eternal life as you can see in the next verse.

1Co 3:11-15  For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.  (12)  Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,  (13)  each onework will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each onework, of what sort it is.  (14)  If anyonework which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.  (15)  If anyones work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
1Co 3:15 Amplified But if any person's work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.

There are rewards above and beyond the free gift of life in Christ Jesus. There are punishments that range from this life, to the loss of this life, to the second death and beyond- "age lasting punishment away from the presence of the Lord". There is a lot more to be said from Scripture on the doctrine of eternal(aionios) judgement, one of the elementary principles of the oracles of God(hebrews 5:12 and 6:1-3).....milk, basics etc according to the writer of Hebrews. But this cant be a book :o)


Col 1:16-20  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:  (17)  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.  (18)  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.  (19)  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;  (20)  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Simply, God by Jesus created ALL THINGS everywhere and every when and God will by Jesus reconcile ALL THINGS everywhere and everywhen to Himself.

Eph 1:9-10  He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him  (10)  with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

Simply, this is the mystery and His kind intention(purpose)-an administration(execution of a plan by the distribution of resources- literally, stewardship) the gathering in one(KJV), summing up(NASB), the "anakephalaiomai" of
ALL THINGS.
Anything in a state of punishment forever cannot be reconciled or gathered in one. This fact alone is enough to compel a more thorough examination of the doctrine of eternal judgment.

Rom 16:25-27  Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past,  (26)  but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal(aionios) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;  (27)  to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.

Act 3:19-21  Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;  (20)  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:  (21)  Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

[Seth]

My first message appently was written with invisible ink, so I try another explantion. :laughing7:

^KJV 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

^WW 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are set aside, we are teached by the Lord, that we should not be judged guilty with the world.

WW, you have one of the best senses of humor. LOL

The word "judged" is krino, which of course is to be chastened of the Lord. The disciples did not want to chasten, they wanted to kill. That is what Jesus did not come to the earth do do. That is how I see them being reconciled. Check out this parallel:

1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged (krino), we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be down-judged (katakrino) with the world.

Here we have "krino" but the world is said to be "KATAkrino" which means to "down" (kata) and "judge" (krino). It means to "down-judge." Compare to:

Matthew 23:12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased (tapeinoo - to bring low, to humble); and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Since God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud, there are two roads man can take to be formed righteous: through grace which teaches us to be godly, or to be brought low, to be judged in a way that we must be made humble, which is a harder judgment. Have you ever had to be de-prided? We all have, and it's not fun. Now, since we have that dynamic of grace-to-the-humble and resistance-to-the-proud, God's method of saving the world from sin upon the proud is to bring them low, which means that Paul would rather us learn by grace through chastening, rather than being down-judged with the rest of the world.

[Tim B]

My first message appently was written with invisible ink, so I try another explantion. :laughing7:

^KJV 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

^WW 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are set aside, we are teached by the Lord, that we should not be judged guilty with the world.

lol Thanks for your reply, WW. I'm glad you rewrote it without invisible ink. ;)

When we are tried/discerned/sued at law, we are trained/disciplined by the Lord that we might not be sentenced with this kosmos

The proper teaching of ultimate reconciliation does not deny (in fact it insists)that "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness"(Romans 1). The issue in question is the nature, purpose, and duration of those punishments that will be laid against the impenitent on the day. Some of those judgments are now,evident in this time(reaping what you sow) "some mens sins go before them into judgment, some follow after"(1 Tim 5:24) "do not go on judging before the time until the Lord comes to bring hidden things to light and makes manifest the counsels(motives, intentions) of the hearts(1 Cor 4:5). Some will be beaten with few stripes, some with many. No one will get out until they have "paid the last penny". Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father.

2Pe 3:4-7  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.  (5)  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:  (6)  Whereby the world(kosmos) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished(Apollumai):  (7)  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment(tribunal) and perdition of ungodly men.

1Pe 3:18-20  For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,  (19)  by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,  (20)  who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
perdition(ruin) of ungodly men.


1Pe 4:4-6  Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:  (5)  Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.  (6)  For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged(sentenced) according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The kosmos is the heavens and the earth.... "the world and all that is is in it" yet we see when God destroyed the kosmos that began in Geneisis 1 and ended in the flood, God did not destroy the substance of the earth but rather those living in that age were judged as men in the flesh and held unto a time(the descent of Christ into Sheol) when they, having paid their debt to society so to speak, received the gospel from Christ himself and were made alive in the spirit unto God.

1Co 5:3-5  For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged (discerned/sentenced) already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,  (4)  In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,  (5)  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh(judged in the flesh as men), that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus(made alive in the spirit unto God).

Here we see the punishment of a man who has committed a serious sin, judged in the flesh as a man that he might be made alive in the spirit unto God "in the day". We do not know what stripes he may be beaten with, or perhaps the forfeiture of his life will be the extent of his punishment. He may lose "his reward".....but the reward is not eternal life as you can see in the next verse.

1Co 3:11-15  For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.  (12)  Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,  (13)  each onework will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each onework, of what sort it is.  (14)  If anyonework which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.  (15)  If anyones work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
1Co 3:15 Amplified But if any person's work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.

There are rewards above and beyond the free gift of life in Christ Jesus. There are punishments that range from this life, to the loss of this life, to the second death and beyond- "age lasting punishment away from the presence of the Lord". There is a lot more to be said from Scripture on the doctrine of eternal(aionios) judgement, one of the elementary principles of the oracles of God(hebrews 5:12 and 6:1-3).....milk, basics etc according to the writer of Hebrews. But this cant be a book :o)


Col 1:16-20  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:  (17)  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.  (18)  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.  (19)  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;  (20)  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Simply, God by Jesus created ALL THINGS everywhere and every when and God will by Jesus reconcile ALL THINGS everywhere and everywhen to Himself.

Eph 1:9-10  He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him  (10)  with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

Simply, this is the mystery and His kind intention(purpose)-an administration(execution of a plan by the distribution of resources- literally, stewardship) the gathering in one(KJV), summing up(NASB), the "anakephalaiomai" of
ALL THINGS.
Anything in a state of punishment forever cannot be reconciled or gathered in one. This fact alone is enough to compel a more thorough examination of the doctrine of eternal judgment.

Rom 16:25-27  Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past,  (26)  but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal(aionios) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;  (27)  to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.

Act 3:19-21  Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;  (20)  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:  (21)  Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Wowzorz! That's a long post! Hehe. I like what you said.  :bigGrin:

My first message appently was written with invisible ink, so I try another explantion. :laughing7:

^KJV 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

^WW 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are set aside, we are teached by the Lord, that we should not be judged guilty with the world.

WW, you have one of the best senses of humor. LOL

The word "judged" is krino, which of course is to be chastened of the Lord. The disciples did not want to chasten, they wanted to kill. That is what Jesus did not come to the earth do do. That is how I see them being reconciled. Check out this parallel:

1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged (krino), we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be down-judged (katakrino) with the world.

Here we have "krino" but the world is said to be "KATAkrino" which means to "down" (kata) and "judge" (krino). It means to "down-judge." Compare to:

Matthew 23:12
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased (tapeinoo - to bring low, to humble); and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Since God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud, there are two roads man can take to be formed righteous: through grace which teaches us to be godly, or to be brought low, to be judged in a way that we must be made humble, which is a harder judgment. Have you ever had to be de-prided? We all have, and it's not fun. Now, since we have that dynamic of grace-to-the-humble and resistance-to-the-proud, God's method of saving the world from sin upon the proud is to bring them low, which means that Paul would rather us learn by grace through chastening, rather than being down-judged with the rest of the world.

Thanks for the reply too Seth!  :bigGrin: What was the context that Jesus said he came to save, not judge the world? I can't find anything about the disciples wanting to kill anybody. (From looking through John 3.)

[WhiteWings]

The word "judged" is krino, which of course is to be chastened of the Lord. The disciples did not want to chasten, they wanted to kill. That is what Jesus did not come to the earth do do. That is how I see them being reconciled. Check out this parallel:

1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged (krino), we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be down-judged (katakrino) with the world.

Well, I guess with all the meanings of a certain word it's a bit of pick and choose.
I just used the 3 primary meanings according to strong.
For me it sounds far more positive than your translation. Plus for me it follows the red thread that runs through the Bible.
Basicly I see the meaning of the verse as God declaring He will burn down the house with everyone in it next week. But during the next 7 days He makes shure the house is empty.

2919 kri,nw krino {kree'-no}
Meaning:  1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose 2) to approve, esteem, to prefer 3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion 4) to determine, resolve, decree 5) to judge 5a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong 5a1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it 5b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure 5b1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others 6) to rule, govern 6a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment 7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants 7a) to dispute 7b) in a forensic sense 7b1) to go to law, have suit at law

3811 paideu,w paideuo {pahee-dyoo'-o}
Meaning:  1) to train children 1a) to be instructed or taught or learn 1b) to cause one to learn 2) to chastise 2a) to chastise or castigate with words, to correct 2a1) of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition 2b) of God 2b1) to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities 2c) to chastise with blows, to scourge 2c1) of a father punishing his son 2c2) of a judge ordering one to be scourged

2632 katakri,nw katakrino {kat-ak-ree'-no}
Meaning:  1) to give judgment against, to judge worthy of punishment 1a) to condemn 1b) by one's good example to render another's wickedness the more evident and censurable

[Tim B]

Further reading in context seems to show what exactly is meant when Jesus says he did not come to judge, but to save the world.

17For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

18he who is believing in him is not judged [because such a person is not loving darkness more than light], but he who is not believing hath been judged already [because such a person has already been judged, that is, acknowledged as liking darkness rather than the light], because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19`And this is the judgment, that the light hath come to the world, and men did love the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil;

20for every one who is doing wicked things hateth the light, and doth not come unto the light, that his works may not be detected;

21but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.'

It seems that Jesus is actually saying that He did not come to judge, or to say, that the world loves wickedness more than righteousness. Basically, this has already been judged to be true, so there's no reason to judge it again. And from this judgement (that humans enjoy wickedness), from this human condition, Christ has come to save man from.

What do you think of this idea?

[WhiteWings]

Hi Tim,

Let me start with saying that in none of the above posts my intention was to show Jesus came to judge in a negative way.
John 3:17 God sent his Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but to save the world.
A clear verse. So we agree on the end result. But I think we slighty disagree on the path to that result.
God is rightous. God is just. God is merciful.
I think we shouldn't just pick out the merciful part of God's personality.
I know I'm contracdiction what I wrote a few lines above but I still think God will judge.
But I'm not saying John 3:17 is wrong. I think there is a very delicate balance here.
Throughout the Bible we see God pushing away His people (punishment/judgement/teaching) and later on He always draws them back (mercy).
When satan temped Jesus he said jump down because it's written that Gods sends angels to catch you. Jesus answered that it also is written not to tempt God. That's the balance I'm talking about.
Just as we should read a verse in context we should place that same context in the Bible context as a whole.


That is how I see it. If I would have gotten  :2c: for every mistake I would have been very wealthy :icon_jokercolor:

[Seth]

Hi Tim,

Let me start with saying that in none of the above posts my intention was to show Jesus came to judge in a negative way.
John 3:17 God sent his Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but to save the world.
A clear verse. So we agree on the end result. But I think we slighty disagree on the path to that result.
God is rightous. God is just. God is merciful.
I think we shouldn't just pick out the merciful part of God's personality.
I know I'm contracdiction what I wrote a few lines above but I still think God will judge.
But I'm not saying John 3:17 is wrong. I think there is a very delicate balance here.
Throughout the Bible we see God pushing away His people (punishment/judgement/teaching) and later on He always draws them back (mercy).
When satan temped Jesus he said jump down because it's written that Gods sends angels to catch you. Jesus answered that it also is written not to tempt God. That's the balance I'm talking about.
Just as we should read a verse in context we should place that same context in the Bible context as a whole.


That is how I see it. If I would have gotten  :2c: for every mistake I would have been very wealthy :icon_jokercolor:

I've changed my view alot on what God's mercy is. I used to see his mercy in looking the other way when I sin. Now I see that the most merciful thing he can do for me is to judge the sin right out of me. That is where I am at understanding the mercy of God.

[Seth]

Tim,
I think that is a good explaination, but I also think there is more to it. Check out verse 20 of John 3:

John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved (rebuked).

The original question was: "How should verse 32 be explained? Jesus said he came not to condemn the world, but to save it. How then, can the world be condemned if that wasn't Jesus goal??"

What I believe is that judgment is indeed commended to Christ, only it is not the wrath of man, but the righteousness of God. In the manner that Christ is not here to judge the world is in "destroying men's lives." He did not come to do that. But he is the righteous judge.

Hebrews 10:30-31
For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

John 5:30
"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, becauseI do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.