Eternal state at death?

[SevanthDay]

Imagine the scenario for those who died before Christ had been resurrected. All the old testament folks.
I.M.O this is the people referred to in the statement the last shall be first and first shall be last.
I.E  those after Christ are the last; those before Christ are the first.
Being resurrected without having known about Christ seems to be the need for a training program that will teach them.
So they seem to be  raised from the dead but still with a physical body; then they are corrected through the judgment process- then they will die the second death to receive the spiritual  body which is then eternal.
To me this make logical sense and explains the whole White throne of Judgement era- an unlimited time period.

Well said!  :dsunny:

God bless you,

SeventhDay

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:......the soul stays trapped in whatever it did not overcome while still in a body. The spirit returns to the One who sent it. The RE-union of same is the resurrection from the dead. Both stay divided (a divided house cannot stand) because of sin. Should any besides Yeshua overcome while still in the body (and some WILL because He said they would), that is the resurrection Paul was talking about where he said he didn't desire to be unclothed (put off the body) but rather clothed upon, mortality swallowed up of immortality. Blessings....

[jabcat]

:)  My 1.5 cents

I know this is a more "traditional" view, and goes against the "immortality in this life/Jesus doesn't physically return, He rather returns in us" view, but up until now I just haven't been able to see compelling evidence to show me differently.

Seems to me everyone in this life dies physically, with the following exception.  I do believe Paul looked forward to Christ's physical return in his lifetime (as apparently did all the apostles), so he wished that to occur instead of him having to die.  Thus, there would/will be many alive and remaining when He returns.  "Watch and pray for you know not the hour when the Son of man comes...with His angels..won't all sleep, trumpet sounds, changed in twinkling of an eye", etc.

Paul died.  If he didn't achieve immortality in this life, I don't have a chance, and that's not what i personally strive for.  I strive for obedience and closeness (and usually fail.  His grace is sufficient).  Everyone I've ever heard about, known, or read about died (possible exception the one translated [Enoch], but even that interpretation is debated).

I've gone back and forth between the 'eternal state' at death.  I entertained the whole "soul sleep" idea, and can see some reasons why folks see it that way.  I don't think it's as open and shut a case though as many contend.   I tend to lean more toward "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".  I remember Michelle Amirault trusting their son Scott being currently used in the kingdom, post earthly death.  Also, not sure why we'd pray for deceased if something's not already happening with them, but that's just "thinking".   That may call into question when each person's judgment is, etc., which is a bit over my head at present (although i believe believers' are MOSTLY already judged in Christ - and acquitted).  Anyway, lots to know and consider (I do the 2nd part :).  I obviously don't have it all figured out - some thoughts.   Blessings.

[sheila]

David...a man after God's own heart...[type of Christ]  BOUGHT THE GROUND...at the threshing floor...to stop the 3 days of

  the death plague[redemption of your bodies/souls/spirit to return to God.  sodom and gomorrah will return unto what they

  were before.[whole restoration/outer/inner/HOH]

   the sin of numbering Israel...........which satan incites to do in disobedience...is against the word of God to Abraham.....

and the promise of God to Abraham...with children/descendants so vast as the stars...that can Not be numbered or sands of the

sea that can NOT be numbered.  ALL..if you 'number' those of the resurrection of men and redemption of their bodies/return of

their spirit unto God..as less then ALL men..then the death plague continues in your heavens and earth..and satan still reigns/loosed

and rules through sin and death in your old earth. albeit in your old heaven..

  the potter's field...Jesus bought it for those poor in spirit,blind,naked[unclothed]=broken pot's..of which God has authority to remake

in incorruptible image/honour.   Over coming is BY MY SPIRIT.....and in the last days I shall pour out my spirit upon all flesh


  not many believe unto the salvation of the soul...[1st Adam become a living soul/last Adam a quickening spirit]

  restoration is returning to the WHOLENESS[HOLINESS] that was lost.

   yet...some will say...not all Israel is Israel........... Jesus tell's us what the 'not all" is....JOHN 13;10  speaking of the son of

perdition that goes into cutting off..of which Judas served as a type..of satn himself...that is the only one lost.......

  the sons of God come to present themselves before the Lord[all] and satan entered in among them[not all]

[sheila]

THIS SALVATION..This restoration..this REDEMPTION AND BUYING BACK WHAT WAS LOST..is not dependant of Corrupt Adam

   THANK GOD!!! It is ALL a work of His Hands.  It is IMPOSSIBLE WITH MEN..for men are a divided house and can NOT stand.

   Jesus said..'Destroy this temple[death plague] and I will raise it up in 3 days!!!  do you not know your body is the temple of the Holy

     spirit?  HE BOUGHT THE THRESHING FLOOR AND STOPPED THE PLAGUE OF DEATH!!!!! the very place where God's temple is built.

   

[sheila]

Isaaih  ch 14

[Cardinal]

 :friendstu: Amen Sheila...... :iagree: Good word.... :banana:

[jabcat]

Hi Sheila.  Could you give me (a simpler folk) the Cliff Notes version of what you're saying?  I.e., pull it together in a direct couple of line summary so I can tell if you're arguing with me or not?   :laughing7:  Or if you're totally just addressing the 'eternal state at death' issue, etc. I can surmise some things from your post, but I might be misunderstanding.   Thanks.   :)

[sheila]

 :laugh:  jab.smh  I like your post!!!!! I am not arguing with you.  lol! :friendstu:

[sheila]

all men will have a full first resurrection....Happy and Holy are those in the first resurrection[in Jesus Christ's image]

   the spirit was always to return at death..unto God who gave it..but those who lost their souls will have them restored because

   Jesus come to seek that which was lost;and the only one lost/typified as Judas/son of perdition/devil/ satan " have I not chose you

    12,yet one of you is a devil?" what good is it to a man to gain the whole world and lose your soul?[all these kingdom's I will give to you

  if you bow down and do one act of worship.] only soul lost and not restored is satan's


  The body was redeemed..because the Greater David bought the land at the threshing floor..of

which God's temple is built on...and covered the cost himself..and the death plague was stopped. potter's field bought with His

blood[sweat].

  and God has authority to make of the same lump[body of man] one vessel of wrath and one of honour.

  hope this clarifies...Grand-daughter come in/distracted...and I've been reading up on world news after I wrote it..it is a whole

different frame of mind; things of the Lord/things of this world.      :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

 :high5:

[marie glen]

Ephesians 2:6-7 -Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

6 and did raise [us] up together, and did seat [us] together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus,
7 that He might show, in the ages that are coming, the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus,

If all at death 'go to heaven or hell', everything being finalized at each one's death - that He might show, in the ages that are coming - might show who? ...and why, if all is finalized at each person's death... some might think show those who survive on earth - but it says ages ...show who "the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus"?

And if it's grace, not earned... why so infinitely kind to few, yet infinitely unkind to so many others?? (I hate to even use the Word "unkind".. the Spirit in us, imo, rejects such a word to describe Him!!) ...show who? and why? (if all is final at each one's death...)
:Peace2: :gsmile: