Hebrew Word Study – He Departed - January 13, 2019 by Chaim Bentorah
http://www.chaimbentorah.com/2019/01/hebrew-word-study-he-departed/
Numbers 12:9: "And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them; and he departed."
God has now spoken to Aaron and Miriam and reprimanded them for questioning Moses' separation from his wife. All our translations say that the anger of the Lord was kindled. Although the word 'aneph could be rendered as anger it could be rendered as many other types of emotions. I have discussed 'aneph at length in earlier studies and will not rehash the whole word study except to remind you that the origin of this word is in the snorting of a camel. A camel will snort if it is upset if it is frustrating if it has lost a mate and is grieving and a camel will snort when in heat, desiring an intimate relationship with a female camel. Hence, we do not have to say God was angry, we could say He was frustrated, or He was grieving or He was longing for a relationship He could not have. Only from the context will we really know what God felt. The traditional church view is that God was angry, I mean would you not be angry if you were in God shoes, if your child was accusing his brother or sister of something terrible when you specifically asked that brother or sister to perform that act? Maybe. .... I don't believe for a moment God was angry, He was hurt, disappointed but more important this act of superiority over God's chosen vessel had to be nipped in the bud.
"If I am wrong" If I created a being that could feel pain, and placed that being in a location where he would experience a constant, very high level of pain for an infinite length of time, what would you call me? (a torturer? a sadist? a being worthy of worshiping?)
https://youtu.be/4GqQMzv64Xk
Shane Strickland 1 hour ago (edited; and edited by df to remove some typos)
@David Ford Well personally I don't believe God would be so cruel to eternally torment anyone.
But if I'm wrong and he does eternally torment people are anything. I do not want anything to do with him.
If God is an eternal tormentor all the evils human's have committed combined are nothing to that one evil act.
Because if God would eternally torment 1 person as far as I'm concerned heaven would not be a paradise.
He would most likely abuse the people that go to heaven.
He would most likely treat them wrong.
I mean if eternal torment is true God would be one hell of a Sadist.
Why can't people understand the problem with a God of love and a Just God being an eternal tormentor does not add up.
So the point of my post is to say that a God of love and a Just God can not be an eternal tormentor.
Because the punishment has to be rooted in love and a Just nature.
Eternal torment is an unbalanced punishment so it's an unjust punishment.
Eternal torment conflicts with a loving God.
But some punishment has to happen if God is just.
The type of punishments that can work with a Just God and a God of love would be saving everyone who has ever lived.
But have it be like a trial for them to get saved.
Are the ones that are not saved leave no trace of body and soul.
As in no after life for the wicked Just the end of their existence.
Gabriel Camarena
Eventually all people, including your husband will come to the knowledge of God and will believe and will be saved. If not in this life, than in the next after death. God will will. Death, sin, and the devil will not be able to take one single soul permanently. God has loves every person deeply and has made full provision for every single sin. It is written he left the 99 sheep to find and rescue the 1 that went astray. There is not one person that God does not love enough that he would not go out of His way to save. God will win, and he will win big! Funny enough...most Christians think this is too good to be true. They think the good news are good, but not that good. God is so under estimated.
God may not be cruel enough to eternally torment them. But they think God is cruel enough to give them a pointless existence, where He knew they would not want them and He would have to kill them off.
:2c:agood part of the reason is because men have failed to subject evry thought unto Christ.That God is love....that at present
we temporally face an adversary[prince of this world] that we shall all be changed,have all been redeemed
The adversaries 'thoughts,slanders,accusations" have as yet to be overcome. Like a 'crown of thorns"piercing the mind of man...great
torment and pain and suffering result...anger at God for our suffering,lack of understanding..the decieving of the minds of most of
mankind in the world. Along with the temptations of the weak flesh,the constant accusing of the wicked one for these very weaknesses
Thus, the adversary accuses,slanders both God and man.
Psalms 8;4 what is man that THOU art mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him.You made him a little lower than
the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honour. ...... You made him ruler over the works of your hands.
From now on call no man your Father..the son of man IS the son of God.
yet,since the garden..the lie and leading into temptation,disobedience and death..another has been ruling....UNTIL JESUS........
and He reveals the Father to us..the truth..and even reveals the sons of God..and the glorious freedom that awaits us all.
p.s.til LOVE is perfected in all of us..we hurt one another..even when we don't intend to. His instructions/remedy for this..is to
freely forgive one another..as He has all of us. Make no memorial to sin.....for He remembers sin no more..and we must do what
we behold Father and Jesus doing.[Dan9;24..to put an end to sin,to atone for wickedness,to bring in everlasting righteousness
to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.]
the priesthood is all about atoning for sin...and we are a nation and kingdom of priests.
Philipch3....put no confidence in the flesh...v3 for it is we who are the circumcision,we who worship by the spirit of God
who glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh.[ps...Paul counted natural birth as jew,legalistic righteousness as rubbish
that he may gain Christ]
I tend to think most people fall into one of 2 categories. Those who have been raised to accept Hell, without thought that it might not be true, and those that don't give it much thought at all, and go about their business, each day, not focused on God very much, perhaps.
Then, there are those, who do read the Bible, and/or contemplate things of Heaven and Hell, and are bold enough to question what has been taught to them. I do think they are the minority, however. Thus, we have Tentmaker.
But, I do see hints in our world of some new thinking about Heaven and Hell.....I am hopeful. But, also, I am consoled that eventually all will know the Glorious Gospel of Love, whether in this world or the next. I believe those of us on Tentmaker have a responsibility to do what the Holy Spirit puts on our hearts to do, to help spread the good news of everyone's salvation.
Here I am Lord.
D.
Deut 21:23 (NKJV) his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God.
Do you think God cursed a sinless Jesus? Do you agree with this?: Proverbs 26:2 (NKJV) Like a flitting sparrow, like a flying swallow, So a curse without cause shall not alight.
"The Bible makes it very clear that God's wrath was poured out on Christ"
In which specific Bible passages do you see that?
"Jesus voluntarily came as a man to take the full wrath of the father"
If X murders Y, and then Z volunteers to be punished for the murder and is executed, would that execution be: just? unjust?
Jesus asked the Father to forgive those crucifying Jesus. Do you think the Father forgave them? Who if anyone did the Father punish for the sin of murdering Jesus?
Luke 23, from the original Aramaic, based on Younan, http://dukhrana.com
33. And when they came to a certain place that is called "Skull," they crucified him there and those doers of evil, one at his right and one at his left. 34. And Yeshua was saying,
"Abba [Father], forgive them
for they do not know what they are doing."
And they divided his clothing and cast lots for them.
"If a judge let a murderer go because he forgives him, is that just? No it's called being unjust."
A human judge lacks authority to forgive people that come into his courtroom.
Jacob's son Joseph forgave his brothers' selling him into slavery. Was that forgiving: immoral? unjust? Do you think Joseph should have instead had his brothers: imprisoned? flogged?
Genesis 50:19-21 (NKJV)
19 Joseph said to them, "Do not be afraid, for am I in the place of God? 20 But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive. 21 Now therefore, do not be afraid; I will provide for you and your little ones." And he comforted them and spoke kindly to them.
"If you break God's moral law, you pay the consequences. That's justice."
Is God unjust if he shows mercy?
Bradley Jersak mentioned the illustration of a father who tells his young son to not touch the hot stove, and then the child touches the hot stove and gets burned. The child might interpret the burning as his father getting angry/wrathful, when in reality such didn't occur. Just because bad consequences occur from breaking God's moral law, it's not necessarily the case that God got angry. Furthermore, I could easily see God becoming sad about people breaking his moral laws. Jersak's _A More Christlike God: A More Beautiful Gospel_ does an excellent job of debunking wrathful conceptions of God.
https://www.amazon.com/More-Christlike-God-Beautiful-Gospel/dp/1889973165/
Mt 23
36. Amain I say to you that all these things will come upon this generation.
37. Urishlim! Urishlim!
Murderess of the nabia [prophets] and stoner of those that are sent to her!
How often I have desired to gather your children
like a hen gathers her chicks under her wings,
and (you) did not desire (it)!
38. Behold, your house is left to you desolate.
"the Bible is filled with examples of God punishing the wickedness of man"
And there are instances where God declined to retaliate, e.g.:
Luke 9
51. And it happened that when the days of his journey were fulfilled, he hardened his face to go to Urishlim. 52. And he sent messengers before his face, and they came (and) entered a village of the Shamaritans in order to prepare for him. 53. And they did not receive him because his face was set to go to Urishlim. 54. And when his talmida [students/disciples] Yaqub and Yukhanan saw (it), they said to him, "Maran [our Lord], do you desire us to speak and have fire descend from heaven and consume them as Eliyah [Elijah] also did?" 55. And he turned around and rebuked them and said,
"You do not realize of which rukha [spirit] you are.
56. For the Barh-d'Ansha [Son of Man] did not come to destroy souls,
but to make (them) live."
And they went to another village.
"if God were to just let sin go without punishing it, then he would be unjust"
In the account below, was the king unjust in initially forgiving the guy that had pleaded for mercy?
Mt 18, from Aramaic
21. Then Keepa [Peter] drew near to him and said, "Mari [my Lord], if my brother is at fault with me, how many times should I forgive him-- up to seven times?" 22. Yeshua [Jesus] said to him,
"I do not say to you up to seven times,
rather, up to seventy times seventy-seven.
23. Because of this the kingdom of heaven is likened to a malka [king]
who desired to take an accounting from his servants.
24. And when he began to take an accounting,
they brought to him one who owed ten thousand talents.
25. And when he had no (way) to repay,
his lord commanded that he be sold, he and his wife and his children and everything that he owns, and he repay.
26. And that servant fell down (and) saged [bowed or prostrated before] him and said,
'Mari [my lord], be patient with me, and everything I will repay to you.'
27. And the lord of that servant had compassion
and released him and forgave him his debt.
28. Now that servant went out and found one of (his) fellow servants who owed him one hundred denarii,
and he seized him and was choking him and said to him,
"Give to me that which you owe to me!"
29. And that fellow servant fell down upon his feet beseeching him and said to him,
'Be patient with me and I will repay you.' 30. And he did not want (to),
but went (and) cast him into prison until he paid him what he owed him.
31. And when their fellow servants saw the thing that had happened, it saddened them very much,
and they came (and) made known to their lord all that happened.
32. Then his lord called him and said to him that,
'Evil servant!
I forgave you all of the debt because you beseeched me.
33. Was it not right for you also to have mercy on your fellow servant
as I had mercy on you?'
34. And his lord was angry and delivered him to the scourgers until he repaid everything that he owed him.
35. Likewise, Abbi [my Father] who is in heaven will do to you unless
you do forgive (each) man his brother his offenses from your heart."
Is it immoral to, instead of filing a lawsuit, to let go i.e. release i.e. totally forgive one's having been cheated/wronged?
1 Corinthians 6 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+6&version=NKJV
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers! 7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated?
"If God could just let sin go and forgive everyone whilst still being just, why on earth did Christ die?"
Jesus died because sinful, ignorant humans, goaded on by the devil, were angry at the sinless Jesus and murdered him. What the devil meant for bad-- and it was bad-- God brought much good out of. God didn't kill Jesus, rather, certain humans did.
"What do you think judgement day is all about?"
I've not thought much about it, and am not sure.
"Why do you think he'll exists"
Because God made it. I believe Melvin's frightening account of his visit to hell, and believe that those suffering there are suffering in the exact same ways as they harmed others while living on earth. Furthermore, Jesus-- who holds the keys to hell-- preached there once, and I'm sure he cleared the place out. Perhaps he'll preach there once again.
"why do you think Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven?"
I dunno. In all the preaching in the book of Acts, how many times is hell mentioned?
Nicely stated.
Todd K at https://youtu.be/fk9wGv2U6nU
The idea that Jesus had to die in order to satisfy God's wrath, that he took the full force of God's anger against sin, etc. is a particularly western and somewhat modern soteriology. Why cannot God simply forgive? Is he bound to conform to some "principle of justice" above himself, is this conformity to such a principle necessary in order for God to be truly God? I personally find this line of reasoning dubious, and not supported by Scripture.
The more ancient Christian perspective (described somewhat hyperbolically by Athanasius, for example) is that God became man so that man might become God... that God, in sharing with us all that it is to be human (including taking on material flesh, suffering, and death), has sanctified the material universe and opened the possibility for mankind to participate in what it is to be holy. Jesus's death is necessary because whatever he did not assume is not saved.
Also, that he is Life, when he entered into the mystery of death, he destroyed it, because there is no longer any domain where God is not.
....
A judge who shows clemency or mercy is not for that reason unjust. If your neighbor wrongs you, are you somehow unjust if you just let it go? How would it make God unjust to simply forgive, as he instructs us to do? ....
The verbiage employed by some of the ancient Christians.... Their language was somewhat more poetic and elliptical (hyperbolic, as I previously stated) than the verbiage of modern theologians. It was not the belief that man's nature, in the process of salvation and sanctification, would become divine... that people would literally become God. Rather, it is that by grace, salvation allows man to participate in holiness, which is entirely other than what is the natural condition of man. A metaphor, again used by ancient Christian thinkers, was that of a sword in a flame, glowing red hot. The sword does not really become a flame, but it takes on those properties. The psalms and Jesus do speak of us being 'gods', in this sense. The Bible does not, however, speak of God needing to take out his wrath on somebody, in order to really be just.
....
What I reject is specifically this: that Jesus had to die for the reason that, in doing so, he "experienced the full brunt, or weight, of the divine wrath, and therefore could appease the wrath of God" [4:40]. This is a gross mischaracterization of God's salvation in Christ, and frankly, makes God to be hardly indistinguishable from a pagan deity.
I am not saying that all shall be saved, or whether all are forgiven. But I am saying that God is free to forgive, or not to forgive, without his validity as a 'just God' coming into jeopardy. Jesus did not have to die so that God could forgive. Jesus died so that he could bring the Goodness and Life of God to a falling and dying humanity.
....
Punishing the innocent on behalf of the offender is not, in any sense, the administration of justice.
....assertion that God supposedly must punish each and every offense, or else he is not just. I reject it. God may do as he pleases. He may show mercy on whom he wishes to show mercy. God is just, and yet can allow the wicked (the murderer, etc.) to go unpunished, if he so chooses. Unlike the analogy of a judge in a civil court, all offenses of sin are ultimately an offense against God. And he can forgive, just as he commands us to forgive, in fact, even more so.
There is one who is Innocent, and that is Jesus.
....
Dishing out wrath upon the innocent, rather than upon those who did the crime is not justice. A more appropriate word would be malice.
....
Salvation is union with God. He has united himself to our fallen condition, the sinless one taking onto himself even the consequence of sin, which is death, so that by God uniting himself fully with man, man might be united to God, who is Life. This is not a bloodthirsty God. It is a God who is willing to lower himself, to pour out his very blood for the humanity he loves.
Sorry to be so long-winded. May God have mercy on us all.
=====================================
IMO: In the Old Testament, the scapegoat carried off Israel's sins. Similarly, Jesus' body on the cross absorbed all of humanity's past present and future sins sicknesses diseases wounds etc. and carried them off. When Jesus resurrected himself, he was resurrected with a new, glorified body. God didn't punish the innocent Jesus for anything. Misguided humans put Jesus to death, but God brought much good out of that murder. What the devil meant for bad-- and it was bad-- God made good come from it.
The Bible contains progressive revelation about God's nature/ character. Not everything attributed to God in the Bible is accurately attributed to God.
Isaiah 45:7 incorrectly states that God creates calamity. *God allows calamities to occur,* including calamities precipitated by wayward humans and fallen angels misusing the free will God gave them, *but God doesn't create calamities.*
Deuteronomy 28 incorrectly says God would rejoice over destroying certain people. In reality, God made humans in his image and greatly loves humans, and doesn't enjoy seeing humans being destroyed.
Isaiah 45 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah+45&version=NKJV
1 "Thus says the Lord to His anointed,
To Cyrus, whose right hand I have held—
To subdue nations before him....
7 I form the light and create darkness,
*I make peace and create calamity;*
I, the Lord, do all these things.'
Deuteronomy 28 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=deut+28&version=NKJV
63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so *the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing;* and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.
Ezekiel 33 (NKJV)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezek+33&version=NKJV
10 "Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: ....
11 Say to them: 'As I live,' says the Lord God, *'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked,* but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?'
Hat tip: the brilliant _The Old Testament Case for Nonviolence_ (2017), 243pp., 193-227.
https://www.amazon.com/Old-Testament-Case-Nonviolence/dp/0999430602/
:thumbsup:
Even when live children and babies were being burned and, or buried alive to Baal Molech.. His anger may have burned - logically, what God worth His salt wouldn't be angered at such actions.. Yes, I think all abuses, oppression and injustices may indeed at times anger Him.. and verses seem to me to support that.. But He is still foremost a parent. What parent is angry at a disobedient / learning child forever? Not a good parent!
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during." - Mt.25:46 Youngs Literal Version
But the word translated "punishment" is kolasis which ='s CORRECTION
"And these shall go away to correction age-during, but the righteous to life age-during." ("He alone is immortal" there is only life in Him, (imo.)
I do believe most judgment is results and consequences.. that apocalypse began in Eden.. What better way to teach "all" the difference between "the way" of LIFE, and the wrong way... which not built upon the Rock can only fall.. and the fall of it be great.. (from some words of Jesus)
:Peace2: :gsmile:
"Hard hearted Christians are growing exponentially" I hope you're incorrect.
"it's supernatural and that it's not all them doing this but the results are the same" Wherever there's stealing, killing, and destroying, the devil's minions are at work. Many Christians are infected with demons of anger and sexual immorality, and since far too few deliverances are being done, the infections sadly remain.
"I know pagans and atheists who treat people better than most of the Christians I know" Scary.
"It's sad, but it's been this way before and it will be again" Christians have burned other Christians alive at the stake, and have slaughtered Native American women and children, while claiming that God approved of those killings. The opinion that 'God tortures and that's OK' encourages mistreatment of humans.
An excellent book:
Peter Tan, _The Spiritual World_ (2007), 144pp., 103+
http://johannministries.com/site/messages/book.html
Blemishes in the organized church
The church is to be without blemish or spot for Jesus'
coming (Ephesians 5:27). The following are some of
the greatest flaws that need to be corrected in the
present modern church:
1. The present emphasis on physical and material
wealth. ....
2. The religiosity without love. ....
3. The lack of interest and hunger in spirituality. ....
4. The persecution of the church by the church. ....
There is a dark cloud and shadow trying to enter the
church in these last days. ....
The Good News ....
Ref for Native Americans:
_Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God: The Scandalous Truth of the Very Good News_, (2017), 209pp., 33
https://www.amazon.com/Sinners-Hands-Loving-God-Scandalous/dp/1601429517/
which quoted from
_Ethnic Cleansing and the Indian_, 43
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Indian-Should-America/dp/0806151749/
and mentioned
https://www.colonialwarsct.org/1637.htm
:2c: that is because of two things...Christians have become especially attacked by satan/demons....and in the end days church
Jesus spews them out of His mouth[the saints were overcome[churches]o- hands them over to satan for the destruction of the flesh-
that NO FLESH MAY BOAST...that God alone be exalted in that day[no righteous works of our own.]
He truly does bind up all men in disobedience[of which the lawless/wicked spirits see to it that wicked works[sin] are brought forth in
the flesh.
Turning over the flesh to satan...and then delivering our spirits[savior]creates a very appreciative bond of love between God and us.
cords of love He draws us with...He goes through hell/death with us....going through the bad times togather strengthens
our bond[of love] with God. HE IS OUR HERO!Our Saviour! OUR DELIVERER!HE WILL SOON SHOW HIMSELF AS THESE ,
AND AS OUR PROTECTOR IN WAYS MANY HAVE NEVER EXPIERENCED BEFORE.
:2c:some pretty big things are about to go down..don't be anxious or afraid..no matter what happens. Trust Him,He'll never
forsake us..and nothing can seperate us[all men]from His love.
Isaiah 44;8 Do not tremble..do not be afraid..did I not foretell it long ago?
Jeremiah 29;11
Quote from: Dandelion on January 21, 2019, 03:03:14 PM
I tend to think most people fall into one of 2 categories. Those who have been raised to accept Hell, without thought that it might not be true, and those that don't give it much thought at all, and go about their business, each day, not focused on God very much, perhaps.
Then, there are those, who do read the Bible, and/or contemplate things of Heaven and Hell, and are bold enough to question what has been taught to them. I do think they are the minority, however. Thus, we have Tentmaker.
But, I do see hints in our world of some new thinking about Heaven and Hell.....I am hopeful. But, also, I am consoled that eventually all will know the Glorious Gospel of Love, whether in this world or the next. I believe those of us on Tentmaker have a responsibility to do what the Holy Spirit puts on our hearts to do, to help spread the good news of everyone's salvation.
Here I am Lord.
D.
Amen, sister D.. And how beautifil!! :dsunny:
Quote from: sheila on May 13, 2019, 02:47:27 PM
:2c:some pretty big things are about to go down..don't be anxious or afraid..no matter what happens. Trust Him,He'll never
forsake us..and nothing can seperate us[all men]from His love.
Isaiah 44;8 Do not tremble..do not be afraid..did I not foretell it long ago?
I don't think many realize there will be (at some time) a rather severe drought - or so I think - see Rev.12:15, reading the chapter as an insert and total history (from birth of Jesus/Son of man to the gathering to Armageddon, but which verse, 17, needs Mt.23:39).
But before then(?)
limited thermo-nuclear type warfare, which is Seal 6 (12-17, but is told as a blend of its first, in 1945, and, its last at the very 'end' which makes it hard to see and distorts the vision). After its first, it's been held in check - "four angels holding back the winds of it... that earth and sea be not harmed".. (And 13:13 was that 1st occurrence, but the verse pinpoints an office - the AC one is in (or was in at one time?) - doesn't (imo) pinpoint an individual. Things escalate, I believe, after this pause/holding back ends..
I also think there will be 5 months of marshall law.. "out of the smoke" of late days, come what looked to John like loud locusts which can sting from their head and tail - Rev.9:9 (I believe it is).
Philadelphians to be kept safe from the "hour of testing of all upon Earth". But, I think we do well, for someone in that day, if we have planned for these things somewhat.. a little H2O.. a few dried peas or rice in glass jars.. that the Lord can use them(?) for someone in that day, if it's a little beyond ours, which of course is very possible, or could be sooner.. Jesus said to watch and #1 warning was to not be mislead lest we/they be caught unaware..
We can be confident in all things whatever occurs or doesn't occur.. Even as Paul, who wrote -
"Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing." The interlinear w/ links - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_timothy/4-8.htm
"
But the day of the Lord will come like-a-thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness," (but we look for -- after 2 ages, the millennium & the judgment) "
looking for, and hastening, the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! According to His promise we are looking for new heavens and
a new earth, in which righteousness will dwell. 2 Peter 3:10-11,12-13 In which "
the bear will graze with the cow, the lion will eat straw like the ox" Isaiah 11:7. :dsunny:
"In that day His feet will stand on Mount of Olives and a great earthquake will split it in half.." Zechariah 14:4
:dsunny: :cloud9: :friendstu:
:2c: as He continues His plagues against the Prince of this world..satan indeed becomes wrathful knowing his time is short. Having taken
the 'final sting'of death from satans arsenal.[O'death,I SHALL BE THY PLAGUES}
He does use satans influence on men to hew trees of righteousness to be raised up in heaven for assembly of the House that Christ
raises up. And also of hewers of stone[living stones] raised up into heavenly temple....H[E]U-MANS.
WARS and desolations will continue until the end...these things must occur.
three years ago I was told 'tellyour people toprepare for a great great war..and that things would start to get bad that Nov."
this war[battle of armaagheddon]is over who will possess control of your body/mind..satan covets your temple vessel..and demonic
madness of mens minds have increased..also men under satan influences and controls will also be used for physical warfare.
2 Esdras ch 15 and ch 16
some of these horrific injustices may try you to render 'an eye for eye.".but keep trusting the Lord.
Amen..
I'm curious.. ..a friendly question or two.. :friendstu: not a test. lol.. i'm just curious (tho I myself love a good quiz, lol)
Revelation 16:14-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." 16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.
truth?
Luke 21:20 - And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies (plural, so more than just the Roman army?) then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
I understand that quite a few folks believe this was fulfilled in 70 a.d.and that's the only fulfillment.
Joel 3:21 -
I will also gather all the nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and I will enter into judgment with them there on account of my people and mine inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations: and they have parted my land;
Is this literal? or metaphor alone?
From Rev.3:10-12 - Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God..
Revelation 21:1 - Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
Truth? ..as written? including metaphor, a way of saying again, all things new.. Or metaphor only? and not a literal new heaven and earth?
thanks! :Peace2: :girlheart:
:2c: the camp of the Holy city..is man's spirit[free gift] in this body of death /sown in corruption and weakness..the 'sin'in our flesh and
other's that surround us . the day's ofLot..God removes His lot[all mens spirits ] before He causes fire to comedown and destroy
satan/evil spirits..burn tares/chaff.
My people will not be ashamed.........as in the garden Adam and Eve were naked but not put to shame..The prodigal was clothed with
the BEST robe when he returned home.Jesus gives clean white garments. Satan/demons/evil spirits are naked though.nope there are
no invisible little tailors or sewing machines to sew clothing for them. Repentance has been preached to those imprisoned on this earth
awaiting their judgement/LOF.But satan won't let God's people go
. All men are covered by the bloodof the covenant. The Blessed[allmen] and the cursed[satan/evil spirits] Satan loses what he
possessed[God's children captive to sin in their flesh/all the kingdoms of this world]Man,while in the corrupt image[may bear the
likeness of satan and be caught naked in our fleshly body]..but not the new creature.]Jesus is able to present us without spot or wrinkle
God's nation/spiritual Israel..is God's son...mans spirit...there are also demonic nations. The Valley of the DECISION has to do
with 'The Court sit" and the time come for the saints to receive the Kingdom[of Heaven] recorded in Daniel. They are legal court
judgements of God..pertaining to satan/demons..into LOF and all men recieving the new heavenly kingdom. Jesus has kept all men
through the trial...and takes away all their sin. Now,there are 'rewards'in addition to the free gift...for those who follow the Holy spirit.
about the new earth and new heavens. Today you will be with me in paradise..when our spirits leave this body..a world not seen
appears to us.That is the GARDEN of EDEN.[new earth].and where we meet Jesus..others who have risen from their body of death
also meet there...very beautiful
..when quite a few gather togather....they are called sheaves...and the reapers[angels of heaven] come down from
heaven and'bring in the sheaves' to take us up to Our Father's house.[be gathered in the barn/storehouse of heaven]
Thus we see the Holy city coming down from heaven onto the new earth to gather us. Going up is mounting up on the wings of the
eagle[Michael and his angels]as we are escorted up.
IT'S A LITERAL NEW ETERNAL CREATION WE HAVE NOT SEEN WITH OUR HUMAN EYES..........
now are there things to be gained in understanding metaphorically from what is written...I believe so, but I see this as tokens to
receiving the fullness and substance of what our Father has prepared for us.
as far as lying signs..I believe Constatine's fiery cross was alying sign...we war not against flesh and blood...we are to be peaceable
with all men,as far as it depends on us. Hitler etc. They attack and come in upon a peaceful and unsuspecting nation. Who knows what lying
signs/dreams/visions/omens/portents these receive to spur them on to such things........2 Esdras 12;22Most High raise up three kings
who will rule the earth and it's inhabitants more oppressively than all before them. 3 unclean inspired expressions like frogs..hmmn
I wonder if they come up out of deNI[a]LE[and I'm talking about a river in Egypt....I don't know all of the particulars of how this will
all play out. But no matter what happens our security is in God. :friendstu: