I'm finally convinced that UR isn't true, God is NOT all loving

[LS]

Have you ever wondered if God is listening to you any more? I keep praying but thinking at the same time that God has other plans than answering my prayers. I have started praying for God to just help us to deal with this awful thing but so far I am getting more down and out and my husband is getting weaker.

Thank you all for the words you wrote to Shadow they were a blessing to me, just wanted everyone to know this. I would appreciate everyone's prayers.

CHB, I understand how you are feeling ... I've been through my own dark night. I will surely be praying for you as well   :grouppray:

[peacemaker]

 (http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/350/350758hgthp12u5o.gif)
        Love is patient, love is kind.
               It does not envy,
              it does not boast,
                it is not proud.
   It is not rude, it is not self-seeking.
It is not easily angered, it keeps no record
  of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil,
    but rejoices with the truth. It always
   protects, always trusts, always hopes,
    always perseveres. Love never fails.

          ~I Corinthians 13:4-8~

[peacemaker]

If the only new thing we have to offer is an improved version of the past,
then today is just a reflection of yesterday with no hope for tomorrow.

peacemaker

[LS]

CHB and Shadow, this was my reading this morning and I thought of both of you:

"We also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us." (Romans 5:3-5)

[CHB]

CHB and Shadow, this was my reading this morning and I thought of both of you:

"We also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us." (Romans 5:3-5)

Thanks LS,

I also try to keep these verses in mind.

(2Tim. 2:12) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him.

(Rom. 8:18) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

CHB

[Beloved Servant]

This one has stuck in my gut since my youth:


PAUL TO THE PHILIPPIANS, Chapter 3 (CLV)

8 But, to be sure, I am also deeming all to be a forfeit because of the superiority of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, because of Whom
I forfeited all, and am deeming it to be refuse, that I should be gaining Christ,

9 and may be found in Him, not having my righteousness, which is of law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is from God for faith:

10 to know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, conforming to His death,

11 if somehow I should be attaining to the resurrection that is out from among the dead.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Did you notice there that knowing the power of His resurrection precedes being made comformable to His death?  :winkgrin:

[Beloved Servant]

Otherwise you would just remain — dead!

[Molly]

:cloud9: Did you notice there that knowing the power of His resurrection precedes being made comformable to His death?  :winkgrin:

The 'knowing' is the quickening?


to know..

"the power"[ of his resurrection]

G1411
δύναμις
dunamis
doo'-nam-is
From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.



There's that 'dynamite' word--dunamis.



1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

[Beloved Servant]

That's the hope that draws us up hither.

But — we MUST LOOK FOR IT.

Where do we find our own spoken words?

That's where we will find Him, the Word of the Lord, the Son of God.

[peacemaker]

Shadow...

I have found that in the most difficult times in life, the Spirit has a gentle way of holding us up
and shining light, love, peace and hope into our minds and hearts. We just need to remember
that this infinite, unconditional love lives within us always.

ALL of us love you.   :boyheart:

peacemaker 

[reFORMer]

We are to love people, not because of what they are, but because of what we are.  That's being like God.  I see Jesus in people that have so many different and erroneous ideas about God and His Word.  He relates to us through faith that functions by love.  He rejoices over the finished product while we are not yet firmly establish in His path.  Staying in the love of God, relating to one another as persons in His love, this is what is important.  Whether or not one's doctrine about this, that or the other thing is oh-so-perfect should not be allowed to interfere with what is important.  "Love one another."

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Lift up Shadow Father, hide her under Your wings.  :HeartThrob:

[coldwar]

Shadow et al,

It seems your original plea and all the loving replies show the true purpose of "the Church" here on earth- which is to be the reflection of the face of Christ, and His hands, feet, Word- all that is Him is actually found in us! It also proves the "Church" is not a building, because it isn't a cold stone building that has written all that is contained here.This is the love of God Himself working through His "living stones".

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen  :thumbsup:

[onlytruth]

hi Shadow...glad your still here.I missed your posts ,I always found them so honest
blessings :icon_king:

[Aleax]

people like Bill Weise and Mary Baxter started me towards the slippery slope of deconversion, I have since discovered other things that disprove an all loving, benevolent God

I know of one Christian who was about to start reading Baxter but had the Holy Spirit speak him the words "this is not my book".

As for Wiese, even Endless Hell believers don't seem to take him that seriously...

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/bill_wiese.htm

Blessings.

[Shadow]

Thanks again for the replies, all  :HeartThrob:

onlytruth about my honesty, I've become so honest in my postings that I joined forums under my real name (when discussing christianity) and I call a spade a spade

I'm glad that you all love me, and I know that you are genuine :HeartThrob: , I love and appreciate you all too, although I no longer consider myself a christian, I guess that I still have a glimmer of hope that you are right, the problem is I truly don't know if UR is true, but I do know this much, URers and ETers do NOT worship the same God

Unfortunately, I'm unable to discern which one is correct, I feel as if I have to prepare myself for the worst, if ET is the truth I could NEVER worship it's God, most christians say that we just have to accept ET and if we don't we are not true christians, once you realize this fact, and the ET doctrine is the truth, then it's over

I thought I was making progress until I read and reviewed this book HERE, after an ETer argued with my review, I just went ice cold, it was then that I realized just how dear and cherished the ET doctrine is to ETers (I've changed my status back to theistic agnostic)

Card, I appreciate your prayers, but I don't think it's working (yet), the last 2.5 years have left a bitter taste in my mouth, and I just don't know what to do, ETers imply that we are scum worthy of damnation just for being born, God is supposed to be portrayed as a loving Father, even my earthly father doesn't think so little of me

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I don't see God as a loving father (at least not yet) :dontknow:

[thinktank]

All Christians worship the same God that is Jesus Christ. The difference is that we have different interpretations of what the scriptures mean. Most Christians belive in ET (I think) I don't belive that means they are not christian, just they have not had a revelation yet, the topic of hell is rarely discussed, so how can one have a revelation on something they never think about. Also most people have a herd mentality, that's how humanity is, it takes pioneers with great guts to rebel and go against the system and such pioneers are not regarded with respect until many years after. Christopher columbus is a good example.
So eternal hell will continue to be belived by the masses until they gradually embrace the new change of no etrnal hell.

I see your still arguing with Eter's Shadow, I'm not suprised, habits are hard to break, I hope though you receive a revelation of the loving father in heaven.

[WhiteWings]

The difference is that we have different interpretations of what the scriptures mean.

See Christianity as an exam of 10 questions.
Are you a Christian if you have all questions wrong? 7 wrong?
What if your answers aren't just wrong but the opposite of the correct answers?
Isn't there a point that you have to say s/he is not a Christian?

[jabcat]

people like Bill Weise and Mary Baxter started me towards the slippery slope of deconversion, I have since discovered other things that disprove an all loving, benevolent God

I know of one Christian who was about to start reading Baxter but had the Holy Spirit speak him the words "this is not my book".

As for Wiese, even Endless Hell believers don't seem to take him that seriously...

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/bill_wiese.htm

Blessings.

Really good post.  Interesting that the link is to a fellow that believes in ET, but still debunks Bill Weise and has some good things to say about salvation.   :thumbsup:

[Shadow]

All Christians worship the same God that is Jesus Christ. The difference is that we have different interpretations of what the scriptures mean. Most Christians believe in ET (I think) I don't believe that means they are not christian, just they have not had a revelation yet, the topic of hell is rarely discussed, so how can one have a revelation on something they never think about. Also most people have a herd mentality, that's how humanity is, it takes pioneers with great guts to rebel and go against the system and such pioneers are not regarded with respect until many years after. Christopher columbus is a good example.
So eternal hell will continue to be believed by the masses until they gradually embrace the new change of no eternal hell.

What I meant was that ETers refer to themselves as born again christians and annihilationists as annihilationists and Urers as Urers, they refuse to acknowledge them as christians, some ETers even view URers as being worse than atheists, URers do accept ETers as christians though, as I cannot accept the ET POV, I accept the non-christian label given by ETers

About the topic of hell not being discussed by ETers, this is the epitome of dishonesty, especially when trying to portray such a God as all loving :thumbdown:

I see your still arguing with Eter's Shadow, I'm not suprised, habits are hard to break, I hope though you receive a revelation of the loving father in heaven.

I'm not arguing with ETers anymore, I did till recently, but not anymore as it's an exercise in futility, they are hard to avoid though, they always turn up like a bad penny unexpectedly

[WhiteWings]

Interesting that the link is to a fellow that believes in ET, but still debunks Bill Weise and has some good things to say about salvation.

James I think you should read the rest of the site. :winkgrin: He's a very hardcore ET

[thinktank]

The difference is that we have different interpretations of what the scriptures mean.

See Christianity as an exam of 10 questions.
Are you a Christian if you have all questions wrong? 7 wrong?
What if your answers aren't just wrong but the opposite of the correct answers?
Isn't there a point that you have to say s/he is not a Christian?

I'm not sure if questions are the best way, maybe we are tempted to do that and seems easier, but Christ says

By their fruits you shall know them

It's that idea of show me your faith and I'll show you my works, for faith without works is dead.

I guess the only people qualified to judge a person whether they be a christian are the people that spend time with that Christian, e.g. Church members, familly, they are the only ones who know whether the person has grown or not and even then, sometimes they do not know, only God knows, for sometimes seeds, take a long time to mature and produce manifested fruit for people to see.

[WhiteWings]

About the topic of hell not being discussed by ETers, this is the epitome of dishonesty, especially when trying to portray such a God as all loving :thumbdown:

I noticed the same thing on other forums. For a while I followed TM people posting on City-Data. Whoever replies with torturous comment got high praise. The content of the post was not that important.