I'm finally convinced that UR isn't true, God is NOT all loving

[Shadow]

This will be my final post on here

I would like to thank the people on the site who have tried to help me and for the gentle responses given to my last post in a different thread, I'd like to believe that UR is true but no matter how hard I try I'm not convinced, as I feel I no longer have a place on this forum, I'd like my account to be deleted, I've requested it to be deleted before via the control panel on numerous accasions, but my requests have been ignored, so I'm making a public appeal, after this post I'm requesting the account to be deleted via the control panel, please honor my request this time

For over 2 years I've tried to hang on to the hope that somehow out there, there is a God that loves us, however the evidence I've seen thus far doesn't support this, it has in fact led to my deconversion, yes I've had to face the painful truth and realize that I'm an apostate and a deconvert, I realized this about a year ago and tried to fight it but I have to concede that I'm defeated, I can no longer honestly call myself a christian, as I could NEVER accept an eternal hell for mankind, people like Bill Weise and Mary Baxter started me towards the slippery slope of deconversion, I have since discovered other things that disprove an all loving, benevolent God

WHAT do I really believe


I believe that there's a God out there who hates most of us. A God who purposely wired us to where we would invoke his wrath. A God who gave us natural desires, yet condemns us for having them. A God who threatens to torch us for just being born. A God who sets us up so we'll fall, just so he can punish us. I believe that life is just a sick joke, where what is good to us is evil to God. I believe in a God who wants to trip us up so he can punish us when we fall. I believe that I'm damned without hope, yet God wants to torture me mentally with obsessive religious thoughts anyway, before he tortures me physically after I die. I don't like what I believe, but I believe it. :dontknow:

Thank goodness I already made the decision to NEVER have kids even as a christian, at least I'm not responsible for dragging another human being into this nightmare, I only wish other people would actually GRASP what their preacher are trying to tell them, like I did :sigh:

[Beloved Servant]

faith

[thinktank]

I encourage you to keep your account so that you can express yourself in future, who knows what might be.
Where else are you gonna post a message like this?

No weapon formed against shadow prospers in Jesus name.

why don't you ask for prayer in the prayer section? Have you asked for prayer before?

[WhiteWings]

Shadow,

Reqeust denied  :thumbsup:

Just stay a bit. Post your stuff in "Arguments against Universal Salvation"

Cheer up lady!

[jabcat]

Shadow, I got your last request to delete your account, and sent you an email stating it could be deleted if you really wanted, but sent you some words of encouragement along with it.  Maybe you didn't see the email.

After that, I saw you back on TM, so figured you were in fact using your account.  Is there any harm in just keeping it?  You don't ever have to use it if you don't want to.  But if you do, then it's here.

James.

[Shadow]

Thanks for the replies people :bgdance: , this seems to be the only board that I can post on without bringing it to silence for 3 or more hours :dontknow:

I'm particularly touched that you would still want me, even although I'm a deconvert, I don't disbelieve in God and Jesus, the love I had has waxed ice cold and I honestly don't know what to do, I don't feel as if prayer will make a difference as everything is set in stone anyway :sigh:

[Beloved Servant]

Don't listen to the lies.

Read the Word.

[jabcat]

Thanks for the replies people :bgdance: , this seems to be the only board that I can post on without bringing it to silence for 3 or more hours :dontknow:

I'm particularly touched that you would still want me, even although I'm a deconvert, I don't disbelieve in God and Jesus, the love I had has waxed ice cold and I honestly don't know what to do, I don't feel as if prayer will make a difference as everything is set in stone anyway :sigh:

We all have doubts.  We all grow cold.  All who believe, do so with the faith that God provides.  We're all clay, looking for a better day.  He doesn't just sit back and watch us.  God gave us a piece of Himself, His own Son, Jesus, to be beaten, tempted, and crucified.    So He knows what we're going through and will redeem us.  He participates with us. 

(this is for me, too)  One day we'll look back and go, "ah, I understand, I get it.  It was for a purpose I didn't see at the time.  Thank You.  What I went through was just a tiny speck compared to this glory You've now given me."

[WhiteWings]

the love I had has waxed ice cold

A little flame and the wax melts like a candle.

and I honestly don't know what to do,

In that case ask me for advise  :laughing7:
Stay. Stay. Stay.
Shadow put you avatar and signature back and participate...

I don't feel as if prayer will make a difference as everything is set in stone anyway

Then just don't pray. You can grow without prayer. Trust me on that.
Just start a thread, this one, to tell us why God hates us and UR is fake. I'm sure you will get answers.
And.... stay away from those fire and brimstone sites....

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Shadow you're always welcome here....we've all had struggles and gone thru doubts; been tested and tried like gold is refined. It's part of the process and it HURTS a lot sometimes.

But don't give up, the light is always at the end of the tunnel. I wish I could pray with you in person, but all I can do is pray in faith for you here. Know that you ARE cared about.  :HeartThrob:

[LS]

Hi Shadow; I am fairly new here but I wanted to encourage you to stay, to hang in there, to keep seeking and knocking and asking.

I don't know your exact story, but I have at least two friends who went through great trials where everything they thought and believed about God was completely shattered. One labeled herself an ex-Christian for a long time and was very angry; the other was just sad. But gradually, God rebuilt their faith and beliefs entirely new. 

As I read your paragraph about what you believe, I had two thoughts.  The first, was going to the dentist.  Try explaining to a terrified child that the dentist, the pain, the discomfort are not torture and are not meant for punishment or evil ... it is completely land 100% meant for his own good, no matter how it appears at the time to his childlike mind!

Second, Cardinal posted a link to a video here. Have you watched it? Those things amaze me ... the so-called painting looks like utter chaos to me.  I can see by the title it will be an artwork of Jesus, but I can never see it as the painter works and progresses.  Until finally ... finally ... the mess and chaos make sense and a beautiful portrait emerges.

I know you are angry, I know you are in pain and suffering.  As much as you are able, try to stop the struggle; try to be still; try to listen.

You have many good hearts here praying for you  :grouppray:

[marcstalkspot]

Shadow...Don't go.

Whatever you think of God and the Bible at this time...Were your friends and we LOVE you.

Were all in this together.

God said He was the savior of ALL mankind, and we will be holding God to that promise...TOGETHER.  Do you (mod edit) hear me?

Love casts out fear girl.  Hang in there, and don't be afraid to love.

[marcstalkspot]

Shadow i made this video earlier...At the time I thot..."Maybe ive gone to far!!"

But this video is for you.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCuaT6-PfgY


See how STUPID the idea of 'hell' is?

[marcstalkspot]

Take a trip over to http://www.nderf.org/

and read about everyone's near death experience!  Wonderful stories from people who went through those things!  And they have BEEN there and DONE it! 

Everything will be ok, if you ever need to talk im here.

[marcstalkspot]

Jesus, Savior of the world, Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world. ALL will praise & confess that Jesus is Lord. All families and Nations will be blessed in HIM. He will draw all men. Where sin abounds grace abounds MORE. God is not willing that any perish, but wants all SAVED. HE is good to all, and His tender mercies are over all His works. Just LIKE all people died in Adam, ALL will be made alive in Christ.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, Marc and thanks for the link.... :thumbsup:

[marcstalkspot]

I hate seeing people give up.  Ive done it myself more than once.  We have to hang in there.  God is love.  The whole world has been deceived!  Satan decieves the WHOLE world!  We see through the glass darkly!  Of course things look rubbish here sometimes!  Thats what faith is all about!  Love always hopes ALWAYS PERSEVERES!  NEVER GIVES UP! NEVER COMES TO AN END.

[eaglesway]

Whatever you may be feeling right now about God..... He knows you and loves you as you are- after all, He created you in His image. He will wait for you, so will we. May grace and peace be multiplied unto you whether you stay or go, John

[micah7:9]

Been there and maybe there now, but this one thing I KNOW, you may quit "deconvert" but Praise His Wonderful Name He WILL not. There is a verse of scripture that has kept me holding on amidst much of what it sounds like you have allowed yourself to be made aware of by your friends(?)
Psa 90:3  Thou turnest man unto a bruised thing, And sayest, Turn back, ye sons of men.
You can go for time, cause time is His tool yet He, of a Truth, is the rudder. You are right where He desires you to be.
Ehp.6:13 ".. and all things having done--to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand, therefore,.."
He is your Peace, He is your Love, it is ONLY Through Him. JESUS

[Shadow]

I'm so touched at the kind responses to my thread, truly I'm really seeing fruits of the spirit as stated in Galatians 5:22-23 on here, I'm moved to tears

Marcstalkspot, I'm glad you are back and thanks for those links, I downloaded the you tube video and have watched it, it's great and you have a great sense of humour :thumbsup:

Please forgive me, I suffer from OCD and GAD, and WW thanks for your advice, I will avoid those websites, I do however come across them accidentally

I'm also particularly touched by the believers in ED responding so gently to my post :HeartThrob:, usually non-URers are so judgmental and harsh

I just don't think I could bear it to finally embrace UR , only to find out it isn't true, I do however think there is more evidence for ED than ET though, although this isn't good news either, it's infinitely better than ET

Card, I only wished God would show me things like he does you :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

My friend you will be overwhelmed in what will be revealed to you when He brings you through this time of trouble.
Psa 13:1  For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. How long, O Jehovah? wilt thou forget me for ever? How long wilt thou hide thy face from me?
Psa 13:2  How long shall I take counsel in my soul, Having sorrow in my heart all the day? How long shall mine enemy be exalted over me?
Psa 13:3  Consider and answer me, O Jehovah my God: Lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Psa 13:4  Lest mine enemy say, I have prevailed against him; Lest mine adversaries rejoice when I am moved.
Psa 13:5  But I have trusted in thy lovingkindness; My heart shall rejoice in thy salvation.
Psa 13:6  I will sing unto Jehovah, Because he hath dealt bountifully with me.

[marcstalkspot]

I'm so touched at the kind responses to my thread, truly I'm really seeing fruits of the spirit as stated in Galatians 5:22-23 on here, I'm moved to tears

Marcstalkspot, I'm glad you are back and thanks for those links, I downloaded the you tube video and have watched it, it's great and you have a great sense of humour :thumbsup:

Please forgive me, I suffer from OCD and GAD, and WW thanks for your advice, I will avoid those websites, I do however come across them accidentally

I'm also particularly touched by the believers in ED responding so gently to my post :HeartThrob:, usually non-URers are so judgmental and harsh

I just don't think I could bear it to finally embrace UR , only to find out it isn't true, I do however think there is more evidence for ED than ET though, although this isn't good news either, it's infinitely better than ET

Card, I only wished God would show me things like he does you :HeartThrob:

Shadow...no two Christians in the world fully agree.
We all believe different things.  (Hence the 39 thousand denominations of Christianity) and literally hundreds of faiths and divisions of countless other religions.

So God...Burns them all?

Nah.

The truth is you are FREE to BELIEVE what YOU want.  This isnt about anyone else.  You have to ask yourself what do YOU believe about God?  Who is God to you?  What is LOVE (God is love) to YOU?

THAT is your truth, your faith, your light...YOUR God.

Maybe you will know the real God better than some others and maybe less than some others, but if your loving God will all your heart soul and strength (as much as YOU can) AND loving your neighbour as yourself (just as important), then YOU are on the right track.

[marcstalkspot]

SHADOW....you only have to know the ENDING, to know what to believe.


God is savior of ALL men.

God all in all.  (love all in all??)


Then you make things fit into that.  IF they don't 'fit' then reject it.  Because it's a lie.  Love wins, it's that simple.  Love (God) is all powerful and working everything out in accordance with it's plan and purpose which is to save everyone.


You will read arguments against UR which seem really convincing at times.  But two people could debate forever about something, both sides having a case and good points.

But this isnt about people.  Its about God who said He is savior of all.

[Molly]

Our God is all loving but he is also righteous.

Our job is to find that righteous spot--Christ--and cling to it.

That is a lifetime job--and infinitely pleasurable..


Isaiah 60:21
Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

[marcstalkspot]

SHADOW.

Listen to me for a minute or two...

Its you CHOICE to believe who God is.
He is love.
Now is your current belief giving you peace, joy, love etc?  (Fruits?) Is your HOPE in the living God savior of all mankind?
The Bible, as hard as it is to understand serves the purpose of....

Hebrews 4:12 >>
....For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

THATS what the bible does.  THAT is why WE have to decide what WE believe about love (God).

Do believers in hell and a failure god have peace, love, joy?  If so...Ive never witnessed it.  The only time ive witnessed any joy in such people is when the 'secretly' have the hope that God will save all.  And so they should for our hope is IN the living God, savior of all.

Shadow, WE judge the world...
"Do ye not know that the saints "shall judge the world"? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

So Shadow...YOU JUDGE what is RIGHT.  YOU JUDGE what LOVE IS.  Do you hear what I'm saying to you??


Noones going to be getting infinitely tortured.


If other people choose not to believe what YOU believe, then so be it.
Some people will say "Jesus draws all mankind to him but that doesnt mean he will save all", or theyll say "God says he will be all in all and every creature will confess", but that doesnt mean all are saved".

What do YOU believe those passages mean?  Does all mean all?  

If you were God.... and you created your own world.... and your "people".... By choice... or process.... Ended up evil....You would have 3choices as to how to deal with it.
1. Annihilation
2. Eternal Damnation
3. Restoration
Which would bring you the most glory?


What belief makes the most sense?

What gives you a sound mind?  What is sound reasoning?

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

Is hell lovely, noble?  Right? Pure?  Lovely? Admirable?  Praiseworthy?
Why then are you wasting your time THINKING about it?

Rev 5:13
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and
under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them,
heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him
that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.


1 TIM 4:9
Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.
11 These things be charging and teaching.

Has your faith in a failure god 'saved' you?  Given you joy peace, sound mind?  Made you want to love your neighbour and God?

JOB 33 -
God always answers, one way or another, even when people don't recognize his presence. "In a dream, for instance, a vision at night,when men and women are deep in sleep, fast asleep in their beds, God opens their ears and impresses them with warnings. To turn them back from something bad they're planning,from some reckless choice, And ... See morekeep them from an early grave, from the river of no return.
"Or, God might get their attention through pain, by throwing them on a bed of suffering, So they can't stand the sight of food, have no appetite for their favorite treats. They lose weight, wasting away to nothing, reduced to a bag of bones. They hang on the cliff-edge of death, knowing the next breath may be their last.
But even then an angel could come,a champion—there are thousands of them!— to take up your cause, A messenger who would mercifully intervene, canceling the death sentence with the words: 'I've come up with the ransom!' Before you know it, you're healed, the very picture of health! "Or, you may fall on your knees and pray—to God's delight! You'll see God's smile and celebrate, finding yourself set right with God.
You'll sing God's praises to everyone you meet, testifying, 'I messed up my life— and let me tell you, it wasn't worth it. But God stepped in and saved me from certain death. I'm alive again! Once more I see the light!' "This is the way God works. Over and over again He pulls our souls back from certain destruction so we'll see the light—and live in the light!


Come back Shadow.  Put your faith in what is right and come back.
We love you and were all in this together.



By the way if your on facebook let me know, my name there is 'Marc Dash'.

If your NOT on facebook, then i suggest you join!  Because its so much fun you would love it!  There are hundreds of UR believers on there and you only need to add UR believers.
You dont HAVE to get involved in debates here there or anywhere.  Our job is to tell the world the GOOD NEWS, and thats it!  Jesus said if they dont listen shake the dust from your feet and move on!

Tentmaker is a great website, but its not easy being on here and reading everyones doubts and frustrations.  You HAVE to get away from all that sometimes, you have to decide what it is you truly believe about God and what love means to you, and what makes the most sense, otherwise your always going to be running around, getting tossed and blown around by the wind and being unhappy.