Why Debate Anything?

[thinktank]

So, maybe I ask these questions for all the wrong reasons.  Anytime I do something I must ask why I do it.  And often I don't like the answer.  I am just a sinner saved by the blood of Christ.  I don't have many answers other than that.  That is my faith.  Beyond that I don't have much to tell the world.   

Ah I think you know more than you think kid(I don't know if you are young, but I say 'kid' coz it sounds good;), your asking questions and that's good and they are good questions. You know that Jesus is the saviour of people, you are here on this forum, which shows that you have grown in love, by not believing in ET.

[Nathan]

I'll probably be in the great minority who think this but here goes.  I have done alot of searching, reading, studying.  I have seen many different opinions about many subjects and many have reasonable scriptural support.  Sometimes my head swims in this stuff.  Sometimes I believe I have no chance of "figuring it out".  So, I question is it the destination that is of value (in the knowledge sense)?  Sometimes I believe that this is a journey of futility...that I can not rely on my own understanding.  In this I can find faith...faith in the goodness of God.  I can come to my Father and just bask in his love without knowing all the details.  Ultimately, trusting in his holiness, goodness and mercy.  When Jesus said of the children...that we need to become like these in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.  Is this what he meant?  The more I study the more I think so.

I don't think you're as much of a minority as you suppose bro.  I think what you're describing is the "process" that brings us into truth.  Debate is part of the process.  It opens doors of questioning in us that ordinarily wouldn't be opened on their own.  Once the door is open, then the Father can reveal to us truths about the nature of his son.  But I do agree with you about the implication of how overwhelming trying to obtain everything there is to know about spiritual matters can be. 

Conception of Truth is a wonderful and liberating experience.  But the key to the conception is the disengaging of the mind.  Truth is often illogical and commonly unknown to our understanding.  So if we're walking according to our minds while pursuing truth, it only becomes frustration rather than liberation.  Which for me, is what you were leading to when you mentioned the idea of us approaching the throne as a child.  The natural mind complicates things.  If you have kids, one thing I've learned from mine is ... they don't seem to exercise their minds much.  (Why did you do that???  What were you thinking when you dumped 5 pounds of sugar all over the floor? " . . .I don't know . . .")

They just live in the moment without overthinking anything.  I think walking in the spirit is much the same as that.  It's not about knowing.  All my mind can do in spiritual things is observe.  In "this" realm we live, my mind is in operation.  In the spirit realm, my mind should switch gears from operation to observation so my Spirit can emerge and be in operation which then my mind can harmonize with as my spirit is in operation in the spirit, that then manifests in my minds operations in the flesh.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:    :thumbsup:

[shawn]

I'll probably be in the great minority who think this but here goes.  I have done alot of searching, reading, studying.  I have seen many different opinions about many subjects and many have reasonable scriptural support.  Sometimes my head swims in this stuff.  Sometimes I believe I have no chance of "figuring it out".  So, I question is it the destination that is of value (in the knowledge sense)?  Sometimes I believe that this is a journey of futility...that I can not rely on my own understanding.  In this I can find faith...faith in the goodness of God.  I can come to my Father and just bask in his love without knowing all the details.  Ultimately, trusting in his holiness, goodness and mercy.  When Jesus said of the children...that we need to become like these in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.  Is this what he meant?  The more I study the more I think so.

I don't think you're as much of a minority as you suppose bro.  I think what you're describing is the "process" that brings us into truth.  Debate is part of the process.  It opens doors of questioning in us that ordinarily wouldn't be opened on their own.  Once the door is open, then the Father can reveal to us truths about the nature of his son.  But I do agree with you about the implication of how overwhelming trying to obtain everything there is to know about spiritual matters can be. 

Conception of Truth is a wonderful and liberating experience.  But the key to the conception is the disengaging of the mind.  Truth is often illogical and commonly unknown to our understanding.  So if we're walking according to our minds while pursuing truth, it only becomes frustration rather than liberation.  Which for me, is what you were leading to when you mentioned the idea of us approaching the throne as a child.  The natural mind complicates things.  If you have kids, one thing I've learned from mine is ... they don't seem to exercise their minds much.  (Why did you do that???  What were you thinking when you dumped 5 pounds of sugar all over the floor? " . . .I don't know . . .")

They just live in the moment without overthinking anything.  I think walking in the spirit is much the same as that.  It's not about knowing.  All my mind can do in spiritual things is observe.  In "this" realm we live, my mind is in operation.  In the spirit realm, my mind should switch gears from operation to observation so my Spirit can emerge and be in operation which then my mind can harmonize with as my spirit is in operation in the spirit, that then manifests in my minds operations in the flesh.

I really like this and find alot of truth in that.  I think I often have it reversed.  I try to get my understanding right...then hope the spirit will follow.  Instead, letting go...and letting God seems to be where I struggle.  I have to have it all figured out before I can completely trust.  That's a problem.  I need to find that childlike faith and for me I think it's starting to come through the knowledge of futility.  Through futility comes humility.  And by humility we come to the feet of our Savior.  I do believe God writes his laws on the hearts of believers.  And I need to listen to that voice more than the one in my head.  I thank God for that post.

[peacemaker]

Why did you do that???  What were you thinking when you dumped 5 pounds of sugar all over the floor?

"I don't know."

Amen, me neither!  :laughing7:

[micah7:9]

Well a sound reason for debate, is for reproof and correction. I still want to know just what is the soul. the soul dies. the soul without the body is nothing. the soul with out the spirit is nothing. the soul only has grounds for existance when the body and spirit are together. A soul is a living creature. Count one soul, two soul, three soul..ect.

[thinktank]

What I hate about debate, is that language is a poor communicator, it's nearly impossible to debate without things being misunderstood, also a lot of the times, people such as the scribes and pharisses, will do their best to twist words around for their advantage and make debating pointless and poisonous, sometimes it's best not to debate with these kind of people for their mission is to make you look bad and ruin your reputation as they did with Jesus. I think the most important thing about debate is trust, for sometimes even people we love say things that offend us, either deliberate or because of misunderstandings on both ends, the only thing that can heal this is trust, as Christians we are told to wear the armour of God, so that peoples words will not harm us, I find it helps a great deal to pray to God to give you armour from peoples words, so that they don't pierce the heart.

[Nathan]

Shawn wrote . . .
I really like this and find alot of truth in that.  I think I often have it reversed.  I try to get my understanding right...then hope the spirit will follow.  Instead, letting go...and letting God seems to be where I struggle.  I have to have it all figured out before I can completely trust.  That's a problem.  I need to find that childlike faith and for me I think it's starting to come through the knowledge of futility.  Through futility comes humility.  And by humility we come to the feet of our Savior.  I do believe God writes his laws on the hearts of believers.  And I need to listen to that voice more than the one in my head.  I thank God for that post.

You are exactly where I am in this Shawn.  That's the opposite of what we're kind of taught to think when it comes to establishing doctrines and philosophies.  Those are things constructed through reasoning rather than revelation.  I still have doctrines, but they're so different from what they used to be, I only truly rely on the sound of what's being said rather than the literal interpretation of what was said. 

Hunger is actually the key that unlocks truth in us.  "To all who are THIRSTY . . ."  I can't drink of his nature if I'm content with my own version of it.  Hunger changes my motivations and desires.