Hiya

[CrossoverManiac]

It's me.  CrossoverManiac.  I'm the guy who argued against universalism by citing the visions of Fatima.  Well, I'm still interested in theology and, in particular, universalism.

[arcticmonster2003]

Hello there.

[SeekerSA]

:welcome: to the forum

Never heard of Fatima.

Blessings

[hopeful]

Be blessed, Cross!
It is the Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom!

:HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

:welcome: to the forum

Never heard of Fatima.

Blessings

Welcome Crossover.

Following is a post from Martin Zender in response to a letter from a fellow arguing for eternal torture.  Thought it might give you some insight on Fatima, SeekerSA.

Zender:
"The essence of your claim is that 100,000 religious lunatic peasants said they saw an apparition of Mary, who somehow told them (via loudspeaker? pamphlets?) "Hello. I'm Mary. The punishments of hell are eternal. This is the main thing I wanted to tell you. Good-bye for now. Oh, and don't forget to live in peace. And remember that my Son died for all your sins—ha! Just kidding! You're all in danger of hell, which is eternal. Or did I already mention that? Sorry. I can't remember. I'm only an apparition and I'm confused because I feel all wispy." This is fine, and we can all laugh privately at the preposterousness of it, that is until your next paragraph, where you question my intellectual depth. At that point we have no choice but to laugh out loud—at you.

I'm sorry if I cannot scale to the cerebral heights of superstitious Catholic peasants who see g-g-g-ghosts. I'm just dumb enough to believe scripture, which says that the dead know nothing (Eccl. 9:5) and that the resurrection of the saints of Israel is yet future (Dan. 12:1-2). All except Catholic cult members—forgive the redundancy—realize that Mary died. The Assumption (of Mary into heaven) is a Catholic fable, unknown to scripture. Surely with all your intellectual depth you must be aware that the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary is brought to us by the same people who gave us bone worship, baby baptism, papal infallacy, and the power of legal tender to propel disembodied souls to heaven. Those peasants at Fatima saw something, I'm sure, but it wasn't Mary. Since the resurrection of Christ, Satan and his minions have been going about the earth deceiving people, transfiguring themselves into messengers of light (2 Cor. 11:14). Hm. Fatima/Satanic messengers transfiguring themselves into messengers of light. Are you sure you still want to make Fatima the bedrock of your argument? Okey-dokey then. I'll stick to scripture, thanks.

For the word of the cross is stupidity, indeed, to those who are perishing, yet to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I shall be destroying the wisdom of the wise, and the understanding of the intelligent shall I be repudiating. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the discusser of this eon? Does not God make stupid the wisdom of this world? For since, in fact, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom knew not God, God delights, through the stupidity of the heralding, to save those who are believing" (1 Cor. 1:18-21)."  God's blessing, James.

[jenna]

:welcome: to the forum

Never heard of Fatima.

Blessings

Lunatic peasants indeed! Even Satan appears as an angel of light.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Welcome to the Tent!

[Pierac]

Hi CrossoverManiac,  :hihat:

:welcome:  I hope you find what you seek.  :thumbsup:

Paul

[dboutwell]

Welcome, CrossoverManiac.

Debbie :grin:

[adam]

Welcome Crossover!

Fatima is probably by far the most convincing apparent miracle for proof of the supernatural as the crowd who saw it included atheists and journalists, many of whom recorded compelling statements.

But many Christians would agree with Jabcat that it wasn't neccessarily a true sending from God.  Also ,  while the children were told about demons and hell, Im fairly sure nothing was said about Hell lasting for ever so even if we accept Fatima as a genuine miracle it doesn't contradict universalism in the broad sense.

Even some Catholics right up to Cardinal level still hope for universal salvation!

http://www.romancatholicism.org/cormac-apokatastasis.htm

[Universalist Catholic]

Welcome Crossover!

Fatima is probably by far the most convincing apparent miracle for proof of the supernatural as the crowd who saw it included atheists and journalists, many of whom recorded compelling statements.

But many Christians would agree with Jabcat that it wasn't neccessarily a true sending from God.  Also ,  while the children were told about demons and hell, Im fairly sure nothing was said about Hell lasting for ever so even if we accept Fatima as a genuine miracle it doesn't contradict universalism in the broad sense.

Even some Catholics right up to Cardinal level still hope for universal salvation!

http://www.romancatholicism.org/cormac-apokatastasis.htm

Mary asks us to pray for the damned souls salvation.  However the church has twisted the message to mean those on the way to unending perdition.

[reFORMer]

:welcome: to the forum

Never heard of Fatima.

Blessings

Fatima is the opposite of thinipa.

[peacemaker]

"Listen and remember, nothing is a sacrifice."