Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ - and ditches on both sides

[eaglesway]

Sure. I would like to open by saying that I believe the Bible is clearer than some folks want to admit, so most of the folks who use the name of Jesus and the Bible to promote evil are rarely ever at all familiar with what the scriptures really teach. They just use the name. For instance, if I wanted to turn people against you, I would tell people "Universalist Catholic said this and that...." and just lie all over the place. Then, when people saw you coming, they would run the other way. This is how the enemy works through ignorant and unconverted men to defile the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
(2Co 4:1-6)

But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
(2Co 11:3)

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
(2Jn 1:7)

And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
(Rev 12:9)

Eph 6:11  Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
(Mat 13:18-19)

The word of God is the sword of the Spirit. In the hands of unregenerated men it is nothing but death. In the hands of the called out ones of God who have their minds set on the Spirit it is the incorruptible seed, implanted and growing into the planting of the Lord, bearing fruit in season with leaves for the healing of the nations, Peace.....John

[reFORMer]

some of the early church fathers (pre-Roman Catholisism) "ranked" the books of the NT wrt adhering to the original and true message of Christ...Tertullian was one

1. Matthew and John's accounts of the wanderings and sayings of Christ (Gospels) came first
2. the books of the Apostles and leaders of the church (ie Peter, James, Jude, John, Revelation)
and so on and so on...
lastly came the books by Paul (which was seen at most as "for edification" but never "inspired")

why was Paul rejected?
because the early church established by the Apostles rejected Paul's teachings as heresy (as it contradicts the teachings of Jesus in many ways)

I have never encountered such a statement asserting the early church called Paul's doctrine false. (I assume you intend, not "heresy," which means "divisive," but that his doctrine was false.)  What are your sources?  In my experience there is no contradiction between Paul and Jesus either!

or
the fact that he was tried in Ephesus and rejected by all the churches in Asia (Paul even admits to this himself)

There are ups and downs in the lives of those God uses.  Look at Jesus.  I've never heard of a trial in Ephesus.  Paul spent several years there cultivating several younger apostles.

or
that he belittled the Apostolic authority of Peter and James

Read the first two chapters of Galatians and you will see Paul promotes spiritual authority and the direct leading of God the Holy Spirit in His people rather than man of any sort.  He not so much belittles the apostles as magnifies Jesus.  The apostles gave Him the right hand of fellowship and agreed that he was preaching the same message as they were, only to the nations.

or
because he abrogated the Law

He says he establishes the law; only that it is weak through the flesh and cannot perfect anything.  "If there was a law that could give life it would have been given," he pointed out.

or
all of the above

His writings were abundantly quoted by the earliest leaders of what was become an apostate bureachracy.

To put Paul last in order is not to say he was thought to contradict Jesus in many ways.  I have seen some lists of what was accepted as Scripture by various groups across the millenias but can't remember where at the moment.  We try to avoid discussing these theories here.  I have often avoided spending much time in such controversies because actual investigation and use of the text of Scripture itself is so much more rewarding.  I just wonder where did you get your list of anti-Pauline assertions?  I don't believe any of that list.

We can't get too much into this as it is a diversion that tentmaker has determined not to pursue to better edify guests to the site.  We may take it away from open posting and continue with PM's.

[reFORMer]

Now I want to make sure I explain that I believe that the Bible can be a very dangerous book if in the wrong hands.  We see evidence of how the bible was misused by the Ku Klux Klan, Slaveholders, shovenists, terrorists who bomb abortion clinics, medieval Kings and Popes, the crusades, The Westboro Baptist Church, and probably many other so called bible movements. 
Eaglesway: Could you give me some scriptures about Satan trying to keep people ignorant?  I have heard attacks on the bible promoting Ignorance by the example of Genesis "If you eat of the tree of knowledge, you shall have your eyes opened to good and evil". 

You mostly stated the fact that it isn't the Bible that is dangerous; but, wicked men who falsify it and attempt to use it in evil ways.

[eaglesway]

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
(2Pe 3:14-16)

Peter clearly regarded Paul's epistles as scripture.

[Universalist Catholic]

I personally believe its just our nature to go from one extreme to another.  But I dont think its a good thing.  Kind of like in the Economy, theres one system that the people on top have absolute control of the business, and can always keep you at their mercy.  They have full authority to work you as long as they want, whether or not you get vacation time, and fire you without any notice if they feel like it.  So its not a good system to have one person(s) have absolute authority over the employees.  But on the other extreme we have a system with unions where people cannot get fired for any reason, along with people getting payed equal, creating no initiative.  And in many cases, the people who were not able to work just hang out in a building and get payed for doing nothing.  Or you go too far right, there is moral absolutism, with no gray area.  Everything is black and white, and only certain things are acceptable.  Too far left, and you get moral relativism, where everything is okay, no matter what.  As we have seen, neither of the extremes work.  With religion, its no acception.  New ageism is way too warm and fuzzy, almost like you feel like puking when you see it.  But then the orthodox religious systems are way too harsh and legalistic that you dont want to even think of without being turned off.

[thinktank]

Good post  :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup: That's why we have to be led of His Spirit, because He keeps us balanced.  :skittles:

[jabcat]

     I've said this before, but I came to the understanding of ultimate universal reconciliation from reading Colossians 1:16-20; Ephesians chapter 1; Peters proclamation in Acts chapter 3; Pauls summarry at the end of Romans 11 and 1 Corinthians 15, 1 Jn 2:1,2 etc......all in my beloved but seriously flawed KJV bible. The only words that mattered much to me(translation wise) were aion/aionion/olam and hell/sheol/gehenna. Once I saw the plan of God, the "administration suitable to the fulness of times", I was a few word studies away from freedom.

   However, as Universalist Catholic shared earlier, the attacks of fundie bible thumpers held me in check for a while. There is great resistance to the Victorious Gospel. Satan desires to hold men in ignorance. There is spiritual warfare. We are embattled, but we are called and chosen to declare the good news(eu-aggelo) of God's good will(eu-dokia)towards men in the face of all opposition. Of course, if the evil one can lead us off into either one of the ditches of to the side of the road that Jabcat proposed in his post, he can still win, albeit temporarily-because God will triumph over all.
 
  ETers have to close their eyes to a large number of clear verses that declare the salvation of all. The God of this world has blinded their eyes so that they cannot receive the light of the knowledge of the gospel of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. New Agers also have had their eyes blinded by the god of this world, not recognizing the centrality of Christ in creation, desolation, redemption and restitution of all things. The road is still narrow and their are still few who find it. The Holy Spirit is still bearing witness to all who will listen. The evil one is still working over time to defile the "good news of glad tidings to all." Sometimes I over emphasize the value of debate and try to convince people into something they need to be prayed into.

But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
(2Ti 2:23-26)

Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
(Jas 3:13-18)

While I love to discuss the blurry areas among believers who are sharing perspectives in fellowship, I find every time I get dogmatic or press my point against another dogmatist- fractures erupt all over the place and fruit is rarely born.

I do believe that the unity of the faith will eventually be manifested in a remnant. As the Bride comes down from heaven, as we all come to the "unity of the faith, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature of the son of God". I believe the second coming will be ushered in by a revelation of the Bride and the birthing of "many sons unto glory".

When lightning strikes, negative ions on the ground build up as positive ions build up in the sky. When the growing column of negative ions and the growing column of positive ions connect- BLAM! A burst of light and power is released. Pray brothers and sisters, pray. :HeartThrob:

:thumbsup: