God in the Old Testament

[fullarmor2]

    I just wanted to comment on the question of  "why does God appear to be different in the Old Testament from how Jesus revealed God to us in the New".     The possibility I'm considering is that the ancient Hebrews had a false perception of God from a spiritual standpoint.(in other words, in the Spirit, God was just like Jesus has revealed him to be, even back then, and it was only in the natural that God appeared to be different or meaner)  They perceived God as more stern, fearful, angry,  and quick to judge.   And  I think that God caused them to have this false perception on purpose.  God played the part if you will,  of this meaner more angry God.   Apparently,  God wasn't ready to reveal himself back then.  And I also think that this may have been a part of God's plan,  because the false image of God that they had caused them to not recognize Jesus when he came,  so allowing Jesus to be rejected by them and to become the Lamb of God.
     I can think of something that illustrates this.   Remember after Joseph became a powerful leader in Egypt and his brethren came to buy food?  Joseph pretended to be this stern mean guy to his brothers, when in reality he had a very loving heart towards them.   Joseph put on an act in order to accomplish certain things.   Even after the brothers found out who he was,  they were still scared to death of Joseph,  thinking he was mad at them for what they did. Then eventually Joseph revealed his true heart to them.   And it seems like this is so similar to what God has done.      God only acted indifferent in the Old Testament.   And in the New God revealed his heart to us in Jesus!     

[Molly]

They perceived God as more stern, fearful, angry,  and quick to judge.

5And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

6And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

--Ex 34



Psalm 103:8
The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.




Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

[rosered]

  Hi fullarmor2 ,

   the Lord has two covenants
  the old seems to me to be the letter of the law that kills 

the law of moses
the  new is the Spirit that gives life    Jesus Christ   Jesus was revealed in the fulness of times ,  born of woman under the law [moon] look in to Jericho

Jericho = "its moon"

1) a city 5 miles (8 km) west of the Jordan and 7 miles (11.5 km) north of the Dead Sea and the first city conquered by the Israelites upon entering the promised land of Canaan

Num 22:1 And the children of Israel set forward, and pitched in the plains of Moab on this side Jordan [by] Jericho.

moses was never able to cross over /Law of moses natural law   the Jordan  river  to the promised land  what does that tell you ?


Deu 34:7 And Moses [was] an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Deu 34:4   And the LORD said unto him, This [is] the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see [it] with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither.  because of the  bloody man and violence sis in the letter of the law that kills !!! because of the circumcision

  Exd 4:25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast [it] at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband [art] thou to me.
Exd 4:26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband [thou art], because of the circumcision.

no flesh and blood can inherit the kingdom !

   Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?


Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.


there is alot more to it ..
  hard to place in a few  words  :icon_flower:

[Molly]

the Lord has two covenants
 the old seems to me to be the letter of the law that kills  

The original covenant made with the gentile Abraham is the one we inherit from today.


Matthew 1:1
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.



Acts 3:25
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.


Romans 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.


Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.



The Israelites, however, decided they could keep the law themselves and, thus, made what I think is called the covenant with death.


7 So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the LORD had commanded him to speak. 8 The people all responded together, "We will do everything the LORD has said." So Moses brought their answer back to the LORD.
--Ex 19


3 When Moses went and told the people all the LORD's words and laws, they responded with one voice, "Everything the LORD has said we will do." 4 Moses then wrote down everything the LORD had said.

--Ex 24


John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?


Isaiah 28:15
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

[Paul Hazelwood]

God in the old testament is depicted in the light of what he does to the bad parts of each of us,  the new testament assures us that the process of stripping things away from us is GOOD NEWS.

[CHB]

After reading all of the post, I think you all are right. Just put all of the post together and you get a better idea of who the God of the OT is.

CHB

[Molly]

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

[rosered]

  Thanks  for the Encouragement  CHB
  Molly there must be 3 than  huh?  not really  :laughing7:


Exd 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled [it] on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
Exd 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Num 14:44 But they presumed to go up unto the hill top: nevertheless the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and Moses, departed not out of the camp.
Deu 29:1 These [are] the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
Deu 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.
Deu 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go [to be] among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.


  here we see that  the moses covenant was the first that is passing away in Heb 9   and 10

we see here Hbr 9:1 ¶ Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.


  the Abraham   by Faith covenant is in effect today  :thumbsup:

  the Living covenant Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.  :icon_flower:

[Molly]

Molly there must be 3 than  huh?  not really  

There is only one covenant, which covenant is totally dependent on God alone.  He is the one who keeps the covenant.    The Israelites, in their stubborn pride, insisted on the law which they swore they would keep, but, as we know, that lasted a few weeks.   If man could keep the law, who needs God?  And, pretty soon, man thinks he is god and starts writing laws himself, and what do we end up with--the spirit of liberty?  No.  They descend into madness as they are doing now in our times, and make a covenant with death--

2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof...

Descending into the law is descending into the darkness of carnality.  What did Jesus call the scribes [lawyers]?  Hypocrites, Vipers!

Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.


This is the only true covenant, and the one that all peoples will inherit from--Jew and Gentile alike--


Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.


"promise"

G1860
ἐπαγγελία
epaggelia
ep-ang-el-ee'-ah
From G1861; an announcement (for information, assent or pledge; especially a divine assurance of good): - message, promise.


God swears the oath of this covenant by Himself.  This is his one holy covenant.



71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

--Luke 1

[Lupac]

After reading all of the post, I think you all are right. Just put all of the post together and you get a better idea of who the God of the OT is.

CHB

What do you mean by that?

[CHB]

After reading all of the post, I think you all are right. Just put all of the post together and you get a better idea of who the God of the OT is.

CHB

What do you mean by that?

Well, fullamor2 said " the ancient Hebrews had a false idea as to who God was". I believe even today the world has a false idea as to who God really is. I believe what he said was true.

rosered said, it had to do with Covenants. " the Lord has two covenants the old seems to me to be the letter of the law that kills 
the law of moses

the  new is the Spirit that gives life    Jesus Christ   Jesus was revealed in the fulness of times ,  born of woman under the law [moon] look in to Jericho".

I think this is right also.

Paul said, "God in the old testament is depicted in the light of what he does to the bad parts of each of us,  the new testament assures us that the process of stripping things away from us is GOOD NEWS."

I think what Paul said was right to.

CHB

[rosered]

 
  Good  thoughts CHB :thumbsup:

  The light  or knowledge of  the moon /law of Moses  is shadows of the good things to come which is Jesus Christ the Light of the World thats BRIGHT !  :dsunny:  This knowledge of Him   is seeing HIS FACE   the Fathers  real heart which is LOVE  :HeartThrob:

I like word placement theology  ,  when   you put
darkness as ignorance and light as Knowling or knowing the Lord  its easier to see  in this verse below
 
2Cr 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 we also know that the moon is only a very small "reflection " off the Sun / Light of the World ...

 in the beginning we know the two lights ruled the Day and Night
 the children of the Day are Jesus possesion / born  of God /Word

 the lesser light is the moon  and it casts shadows  and runs in cycles of 12 months etc  
 than taking this on a spiritual note we see the letter of the law
 thats good  ,  showing us our sin or lack of knowledge and love for God
 and  how that letter kills others  with it  , not   what God had in mind maybe ?  and  it was  supposed  to  kill us  , bringing death    that Jesus would be the Life in us from that time  on ...


Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.

 here is a couple on the shadow/ light of darkness  of the moon / law of moses

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.


Hbr 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle:

for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.


Hbr 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things,

can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
the two lights / knowledge  of the covenants   moon/LAW   and Sun / SON
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The woman being the Church  when the law / moon is under her feet
  than does  that mean  has overcome  the law of sin and  death   the 12 stars being the  12 tribes of Israel ... and growth in Jesus Christ the Light of knowledge  shining out of the darkness or ignorance  od sin and death

  Babylon aka  Jerusalem  is the church that has all the blood shed of the prophets and Jesus Christ is that last blow / fulness   of the cup of the wrath of God in her   rev 17    makes good sense when seeing her  that way


 you can see  a little in the moon light  when its full  when the moon turns to blood  we see that as violence / bloodshed  that the law kills and why Jesus said this  here !


Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.


but never  see / percieve clearly and when the moon does not give any light  we are  stumbling in darkness / ignorance  :mblush:

 the blind  /ignorant have no sin  the law was for those who said they see / understand  Gods will  that their sin remains  

Jhn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, you  should have no sin: but now you  say, We see; therefore your sin remains.
 they did not accept mercy  and grace they loved to kill with the Law of moses  ,and  would  lie murder  in pride  hating  the brothers  / Jesus Christ

  the Sun or Day   swallows up all the darkness / ignorance  so we can walk
in the Spirit / Christ light /life ...
hope this is a little bit  more clearer    Lupac  :icon_flower: