Is "100%" certainty of UR being true possible?

[Syndicated]

1Jn 2:1-2  My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

I have read this verse I don't know how many times, heard it spoken soooooo many times, but tonight I just saw something in it in a different light!  WOW!

:dsunny: :ty: :banana:

[sscoulter]

  I personally came to believe that the ultimate salvation of all was 100% possible through a process of elimination combined with a word study. I was saved by a supernatural revelation of Jesus outside the church. I never had any Christian teaching before that. After that I read the word on my own for a long time before I went to churches looking for fellowship. When the things I was taught in churches didn t jive with what I already knew from the Spirit and the Word I was greatly troubled, and ET and the doctrines surrounding it was the biggest pain of all.

   But I always believed that the scriptures were true, and that any seeming paradox was a gateway to deeper truth if I could press through, for "everyone who seeks finds". So I just kept praying and studying. The clincher for me was Colossians 1:16-20. It says(16-17)  "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together".
As John wrote , Joh 1:3  "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being". So, when Col 1:19-20 says "For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,  and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven", then to me that means the same "all things" he created is the "all things" He reconciled.
 
 Then I saw Eph 1:8-11, saying....  "He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him   with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will..."
 
 And 1 Cor 15:22-28  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,  then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. ......... When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

 And   Rom 11:32-36  For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

  And  1Jn 2:1-2  My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Well, I've always been a word guy. I mean, "It is written". I mean, "the scriptures cannot be broken". I mean, "all scripture is God breathed".I mean, "no prophecy of scripture is given to any man's private interpretation, but holy men moved of God.....", etc., etc., ad infinitim.

So I began to perceive that the scriptures could not be true if all these verses were not true as written. Then, as I began to do the word studies on "forever" and "hell" it became clear to me that it could not be any other way. If these verses, and many more like them are not true, then I might as well just throw it all out, because the integrity of the scripture is a foundation of the faith.

  Believe me when I say that it is all right with me if God wants to burn Hitler right out of existence. I am no holy man. I might even prefer it so. Manson, Caligula, pedophiles, serial killers, sure, I'm OK with that, fry em forever or burn em up.......  I am not proud of that, its just true. But I believe the word of God and I believe the scriptures more than anything anyone has ever reasoned with me, pro or con or otherwise.

  When I read those verses in Colossians and Ephesians and 1 Corinthians I am left with no choice but to believe all punishment is remedial(reforming/transforming) and finite(an appropriate sentence for the purpose of rehabilitation not revenge), and that the "summing up"(gathering into one) and the "reconciliation" of all things includes every angel, every principality and power, every living soul that was created through Jesus Christ. He is "the light that lighteth everyman that cometh into the world". So that is my testimony. I wrestled for years with this, so I know it is not as simple as what I have presented here, but I believe it is the "good news" that beautiful feet carry upon the mountains.

Literally, tears running down my face.....


S

[Beloved Servant]

His blood is inexhaustible. Praise the living blood of Christ Jesus!

[Beloved Servant]

There's only grace, mercy and love.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ArVuqm324

[reFORMer]

Many wonderful and true things may be said about Holy Scripture; but, of utmost importance is that the Holy Spirit uses the words of Scripture to bring about conditions favorable to the manifestation of God to our awareness.  This point, to know God by experience, is primary to the work of Jesus:  His incarnation, life, death, resurrection and ascension.  The gospel is for you to experience God.

This is the only path to whatever certainty it is possible for us to have:  we must fix our gaze intently upon the face of God Who is the Absolute Truth.  Bathe in His radiance. Soak in His presence.

Something I ask people who have some experience with the Holy Spirit is if your personal revelation of Jesus is that of a Master Torturer Whose purpose is to make you in that image also.  Is that alright with your conscience?

[friendofmankind]

  I personally came to believe that the ultimate salvation of all was 100% possible through a process of elimination combined with a word study. I was saved by a supernatural revelation of Jesus outside the church. I never had any Christian teaching before that. After that I read the word on my own for a long time before I went to churches looking for fellowship. When the things I was taught in churches didn t jive with what I already knew from the Spirit and the Word I was greatly troubled, and ET and the doctrines surrounding it was the biggest pain of all.

   But I always believed that the scriptures were true, and that any seeming paradox was a gateway to deeper truth if I could press through, for "everyone who seeks finds". So I just kept praying and studying. The clincher for me was Colossians 1:16-20. It says(16-17)  "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together".
As John wrote , Joh 1:3  "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being". So, when Col 1:19-20 says "For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,  and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven", then to me that means the same "all things" he created is the "all things" He reconciled.
 
 Then I saw Eph 1:8-11, saying....  "He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him   with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will..."
 
 And 1 Cor 15:22-28  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,  then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. ......... When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

 And   Rom 11:32-36  For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

  And  1Jn 2:1-2  My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Well, I've always been a word guy. I mean, "It is written". I mean, "the scriptures cannot be broken". I mean, "all scripture is God breathed".I mean, "no prophecy of scripture is given to any man's private interpretation, but holy men moved of God.....", etc., etc., ad infinitim.

So I began to perceive that the scriptures could not be true if all these verses were not true as written. Then, as I began to do the word studies on "forever" and "hell" it became clear to me that it could not be any other way. If these verses, and many more like them are not true, then I might as well just throw it all out, because the integrity of the scripture is a foundation of the faith.

  Believe me when I say that it is all right with me if God wants to burn Hitler right out of existence. I am no holy man. I might even prefer it so. Manson, Caligula, pedophiles, serial killers, sure, I'm OK with that, fry em forever or burn em up.......  I am not proud of that, its just true. But I believe the word of God and I believe the scriptures more than anything anyone has ever reasoned with me, pro or con or otherwise.

  When I read those verses in Colossians and Ephesians and 1 Corinthians I am left with no choice but to believe all punishment is remedial(reforming/transforming) and finite(an appropriate sentence for the purpose of rehabilitation not revenge), and that the "summing up"(gathering into one) and the "reconciliation" of all things includes every angel, every principality and power, every living soul that was created through Jesus Christ. He is "the light that lighteth everyman that cometh into the world". So that is my testimony. I wrestled for years with this, so I know it is not as simple as what I have presented here, but I believe it is the "good news" that beautiful feet carry upon the mountains.

Literally, tears running down my face.....


S

[Universalist Catholic]

I have been intensely angry with God for a long time.  Yeah I hate to admit
it but I have HATED GOD (even as a so-called Christian) - no pulling punches - no excuses - I'm guilty.
Many things have occurred over the years  re-enforcing my perception that God seems to hate me.    I accept that I'm being punished/chastised deservingly so.
So Paul, I think I see what you're saying.

Is there a possibility that you were only hating what you thought was God, and not actually God?

[gky]

Hello Universalist Catholic,

Thank you.  YES I believe I am going through a very long drawn out spiritual/mental/emotional/psychological/(and even physical) detoxification process, attempting to understand Who the REAL God/Christ is.  The God I've been taught
from Catholic school when I was 5-7 years old to the God presented by the self-proclaimed "verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book non denominational" CULT I've spent 20 years did drive me to HATE GOD, so you're right on the money
with your question.

One of the things I began doing when entering a short but very traumatic season of
evolving into an "Ex-Christian" was to ask myself - If I could have lived and been there
to hear Jesus Christ's voice and experience HOW He spoke at the Mount of Olives "Sermon on the Mount", His facial and vocal tone, etc I thought I might have a chance to "REALLY MEET HIM PERSONALLY".  Many pulpit performers present Him as unconditionally loving on one side of their mouth, but on the other side, they read the RED LETTERS in a hyper-stoic and condensending vibe.    Reading the RED LETTERS over and over again for myself helped a lot, but still (to this day) doesn't answer what seems to be Jesus' insinuations of eternal exclusivity for many.  I have a lot to learn.

I would like to have seen His face, heard His vocal tone, body language when He spoke those phrases that have been leveraged as "certain proofs" of Hell i.e. "weeping and
gnashing of teeth", "where the worm never dies and the fire is not quenched", "on that
day many will say Lord Lord ... depart from me you doers of iniquity, I never knew you" and the like.  If I had the nerve and lived in that day, I would have attempted to tap Him
on the shoulder and asked what He meant.  I would have been way more "doubting"
than Thomas if I could have been there myself. 

But I also need to answer you honestly and share the severe failures of my expectations of God/Christ.  If I were alive during His time on earth, I would have been a guilty accomplice of His execution. I would have chanted "Hosanna in the Highest" on that Sunday, only to  chant "Crucify Him - I want Barabbas" in the middle of that fateful week.  Why do I say this?  Because I've made the mistake of initially following Jesus assuming He would facilitate my selfish dreams of "ministry".  When He did not "answer my prayers" I began to resent, then hate Him.   Like the citizens of that time who wanted deliverance from those "evil" Romans,  we American Christians assume God will "rapture" us once the "world" starts to "persecute" us and destroy our own delusional bubbles. We are foolishly filled with presumption and self-entitlement
thinking God will deliver us the moment someone causes a hang-nail, while currently,
REAL believers in Christ are being martyred in many other parts of the world as we speak.   And throw in yet another horrific disaster in Chile following Haiti - I can't help but wonder (no I don't wish for calamity upon us) why we are so spared - so far ... that's
the part that scares me - I feel like that other shoe will eventually drop on
America and it's going to be a very heavy shoe to recomense for our hideous presumption and arrogance. 

Sorry for rambling.  Thank you all for your patience!

[Universalist Catholic]

gky, I had that same problem.  Its still hard to push all that ET dung off.  Those ET apologists try to defend that doctrine, but their defense are terrible.  One person asked what is the purpose of Hell.  Someone explained that "Purpose is reserved only for time, and hell is outside of time, so hell has no purpose."  But by that logic, that would make Purgatory or Heaven with no purpose.  Last I checked, Purgatory carries the purpose of Purification. 

[eaglesway]

Is there a possibility that you were only hating what you thought was God, and not actually God?

Sooooooo many caught in this. Thats why we cannot judge, we must love and share in meekness with patience. Dear Jesus knows the secrets of our hearts. I actually believe hating a god that would torment so many forever is actually loving the God who wouldn't. Therefore, our recognizing through the spirit man His eternal power (to save all) and divine nature (to forgive all) is so important to Him that He easily understands, forgives, and waits for the dawn to break in us. Those barriers in our mind, false icons of God and of Christ, are the towers and the strongholds that exalt theselves against "the true knowledge of God" and are being torn down.  :swordfight: He is utterly patient as the cobwebs of the darkness begin to pass away. Then, when we are finally standing in the noonday sun, He rejoices with us in joy unspeakable and full of glory- :dsunny: At last, we finally have seen His face, and know Him, the great I AM- as He really is. That is all He ever wanted. This revelation of the mystery was His kind intention which He purposed from the beginning- to the praise of the glory of His grace. As you begin to see that the father who abused you with the whip and the threat never was the Father who loves you so dearly- GREAT DELIVERANCE is accomplished. The Father is rejoicing through your entire journey into it, because He knows the fulfillment of His desire for you is coming. He loves you. HAHA! YEAH!  :bgdance:

[gky]

Thank you eaglesway,

Your post and especially this comment was very encouraging:

"I actually believe hating a god that would torment so many forever is actually loving the God who wouldn't."