Argument Against US- Matthew 7

[TheDiscipleShip]

Matthew Chapter 7 is filled with verses that explain who will enter the gates of Heaven and who will not.

Matthew 7
Judging Others
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
Ask, Seek, Knock
7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
The Wise and Foolish Builders
24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

28When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.


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Even in John Chapter 3, in the same paragraph that contains what many regard as the most essential verse of Christianity (John 3:16), it speaks about who will enter Heaven and who will be condemned to Hell.


16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]


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In the old testament, Jeremiah, chapter 7, Jeremiah speaks the Lord's word:

Jeremiah 7
False Religion Worthless
1 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD : 2 "Stand at the gate of the LORD's house and there proclaim this message:
     " 'Hear the word of the LORD, all you people of Judah who come through these gates to worship the LORD. 3 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Reform your ways and your actions, and I will let you live in this place. 4 Do not trust in deceptive words and say, "This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD!" 5 If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, 6 if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, 7 then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever. 8 But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.

9 " 'Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and perjury, [a] burn incense to Baal and follow other gods you have not known, 10 and then come and stand before me in this house, which bears my Name, and say, "We are safe"-safe to do all these detestable things? 11 Has this house, which bears my Name, become a den of robbers to you? But I have been watching! declares the LORD.

12 " 'Go now to the place in Shiloh where I first made a dwelling for my Name, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of my people Israel. 13 While you were doing all these things, declares the LORD, I spoke to you again and again, but you did not listen; I called you, but you did not answer. 14 Therefore, what I did to Shiloh I will now do to the house that bears my Name, the temple you trust in, the place I gave to you and your fathers. 15 I will thrust you from my presence, just as I did all your brothers, the people of Ephraim.'

16 "So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you. 17 Do you not see what they are doing in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke me to anger. 19 But am I the one they are provoking? declares the LORD. Are they not rather harming themselves, to their own shame?

20 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: My anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place, on man and beast, on the trees of the field and on the fruit of the ground, and it will burn and not be quenched.

21 " 'This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Go ahead, add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! 22 For when I brought your forefathers out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, 23 but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in all the ways I command you, that it may go well with you. 24 But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward. 25 From the time your forefathers left Egypt until now, day after day, again and again I sent you my servants the prophets. 26 But they did not listen to me or pay attention. They were stiff-necked and did more evil than their forefathers.'

27 "When you tell them all this, they will not listen to you; when you call to them, they will not answer. 28 Therefore say to them, 'This is the nation that has not obeyed the LORD its God or responded to correction. Truth has perished; it has vanished from their lips. 29 Cut off your hair and throw it away; take up a lament on the barren heights, for the LORD has rejected and abandoned this generation that is under his wrath.
The Valley of Slaughter
30 " 'The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the LORD. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it. 31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. 32 So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. 33 Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 34 I will bring an end to the sounds of joy and gladness and to the voices of bride and bridegroom in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate.


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These three series of verses tell us that not everybody will go to Heaven. There are many, MANY other verses about this topic. One of them even says, "He who seeks in life will be rewarded in death, but he who ignores Christ will not be rewarded." I don't have a reference for this (I heard it on some tv show, it might actually be a verse from the book of Mormon, so if it is, ignore it).


There are thousands upon millions of verses in the bible. There are billions upon trillions of words in the bible. I wouldn't be surprised if someone confused themselves. Maybe I'm wrong, but I at least know I'm safe, having accepted Christ as my Lord and savior, and I'm committed to spreading the word to believers and non-believers alike.

I hope this has shed some light on verses some of you have never heard before.

God Bless you,
A brother in Christ,
Stan
TheDiscipleShip

[Beloved Servant]

Mark 13 (CLV)

34 "It is as a man, a traveler, leaving his home and giving his slaves authority, and to each his work, and he directs the doorkeeper that he may be watching.
35 Watch, then, for you are not aware when the lord of the house is coming, at evening, or midnight, or cockcrowing, or morning,
36 that, coming suddenly, he may not be finding you drowsing.
37 Now what I am saying to you, I am saying to all: 'Watch!'"

...or go back to sleep.

[SQ]

Faithful is the saying and worthy of all acceptation. For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, Who is the Savior of all men, specially of them that believe. These things command and teach"
1 Tim. 4:9-11

[SQ]

It is finished!  :bigGrin:

[Paul Hazelwood]

it speaks about who will enter Heaven and who will be condemned to Hell

G2098  euaggelion  yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on

from the same as G2097;

a good message, i.e. the gospel:--gospel.


You cannot reconcile the supposed knowledge of eternal condemnation in the false Christian  Hell with a  Good Message.   You will have to isolate yourself and only claim your beliefs are soley honored by God so as to avoid such a place.  In any event, while you may see a good message for yourself, you are forced to deny that message for some making your beliefs a complete contradiction to the character of God in the first place.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I at least know I'm safe

Belief in and of itself has no power.   You say you know your safe from an eternal hell while believing some may not be.  You cannot prove to yourself or to anyone else that you will not hear these words. 

Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Since you cannot demonstrate anything other than an empty claim of safety your doctrine is absolutely untrustworthy.  For even if there is an eternal hell, you cannot demonstrate the absolute truth that your beliefs will cause even one person, including yourself to avoid it. 

Even among you that believe there is some eternal punishment you can't even agree on what it is,  you cannot even agree the absolute criteria of what it actually means to be saved.  One person says this, one person says that, another says something else.  With the stakes as high as eternity, you really have nothing to offer.



It is however true that universalists have their own disagreements in the ranks, there are many debates and sometimes heated tempers among us because we are still human.   However there is one significant difference that stands to peer into the truth and that is whether the agreements in the ranks qualifies as "THE GOOD MESSAGE" or not.


Christian universalists all agree that ALL are saved through JESUS CHRIST,  we might disagree on the journey to that end, but there is no dispute among us concerning that.


With believers of eternal hell, there is no Good NEWS in their universal agreement.   You universally agree that "NOT all are saved"  that's not the GOOD MESSAGE.   You cannot even agree that everyone in your congregations will make it to heaven,  even among your own ranks you do not have GOOD NEWS amongst yourselves.

That is really sad and yet another example of NO GOOD NEWS.

[TheDiscipleShip]

I can claim that I, on a daily basis, strive to keep my bible handy. I'm still in high school, and I read it every chance I get (to gain attention so that I can start conversation without seeming to do so intentionally), so that I can also better minister to the lost.


How many reference verses do the universalists have that point to "Universal salvation" or a "temporary Hell?" The bible talks about an ETERNITY of hell. Are you ignoring those words? ETERNITY! Not temporary. Let's look at the word Eternity and then the word temporary in the dictionary.
Eternal-
–adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics. existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
–noun
5.
something that is eternal.
6.
the Eternal, God.


temporary-
–adjective
1.
lasting, existing, serving, or effective for a time only; not permanent: a temporary need; a temporary job.
–noun
2.
an office worker hired, usually through an agency on a per diem basis, for a short period of time.


Now obviously, the "noun" definition for temporary here doesn't pertain because we're not talking about a job.

If Hell is eternal.. lets replace the word eternal with a synonym... permanent. If Hell is permanent, it is obviously not temporary. If Hell is not unfailing (yet another synonym for eternal), it is not temporary. It does not vanish. It will not disappear.


-- And, Paul Hazelwood, why can't I use scriptures that are put together in the bible, together in my ministry? It doesn't contradict the character of God, but defines it. God doesn't know you unless you know Jesus.



Here's a little illustration.

You....God.

See, there's a little cliff there that you'll fall off and die without a bridge. That cliff is the entrance to Hell.

You†God

The cross acts as a bridge to God. Without acknowledging that a bridge exists, how are you supposed to cross the bridge? Without acknowledging that the cross was the bridge to Heaven, how are you supposed to cross that bridge TO Heaven? You can't. But if you don't know the dangers of what lies underneath the bridge, how would you know that the cross is the best path to choose?

So, therefore, when spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you should use the good parts and the bad parts. The bad parts you should use to seem like your condemning them, but to warn them what lies underneath the bridge.

There's a reason that the bad parts of ETERNITY are placed in the Gospel. It's very obvious, with logic, and other verses in the bible.


---

I know I'm going to Heaven. Not because of anything I've really done (while the bible tells us that if we accept Christ we'll go to Heaven), but because I know that it's not by my works but by the Grace of God that I'll get into Heaven.

--

SQ, you quoted a bible verse from 1 Tim 4. The word in there, "specially," is either misleading myself, or misleading you.

Specially
base- Special

spe·cial
   /ˈspɛʃəl/ Show Spelled[spesh-uhl] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
of a distinct or particular kind or character: a special kind of key.
2.
being a particular one; particular, individual, or certain: You'd better call the special number.
3.
pertaining or peculiar to a particular person, thing, instance, etc.; distinctive; unique: the special features of a plan.
4.
having a specific or particular function, purpose, etc.: a special messenger.
5.
distinguished or different from what is ordinary or usual: a special occasion; to fix something special.
6.
extraordinary; exceptional, as in amount or degree; especial: special importance.
7.
being such in an exceptional degree; particularly valued: a special friend.


I believe in this verse it is meaning a synonym, specifically. On the bottom of the page of the online dictionary I'm using (reference.dictionary.com), It gives synonyms. Let's look at that quote.

"5.  singular. Special, particular, specific refer to something pointed out for attention and consideration. Special means given unusual treatment because of being uncommon: a special sense of a word.  Particular implies something selected from the others of its kind and set off from them for attention: a particular variety of orchid.  Specific implies plain and unambiguous indication of a particular instance, example, etc.: a specific instance of cowardice. "



So this is your english language, and your Bible. I believe I just defiled your belief in universalism. But I might be wrong, so let's forget I said I defiled your belief in universalism.

God Bless!



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PS. Paul Hazelwood, you said "Belief in and of itself has no power." You obviously have not read the Gospel of Jesus Christ, because it is full of the idea that faith has power.

Faith--
–noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6.
the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7.
the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8.
Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.


So I've established that faith is based on a belief.. which makes it a type of belief.

The Faith of the Centurion
5When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6"Lord," he said, "my servant lies at home paralyzed and in terrible suffering."

7Jesus said to him, "I will go and heal him."

8The centurion replied, "Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and that one, 'Come,' and he comes. I say to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it."

10When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, "I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

13Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! It will be done just as you believed it would." And his servant was healed at that very hour.





The bible also says, in a quote from Jesus Himself, Any man with the faith of a mustard seed will move mountains.



The Healing of a Boy With a Demon
14When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15"Lord, have mercy on my son," he said. "He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him."

17"O unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me." 18Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment.

19Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn't we drive it out?"

20He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."[a]

22When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. 23They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life." And the disciples were filled with grief.

[Zeek]

The journey has begun DsicipleShip, and forever your life has been changed.  It's no fluke you ended up here.  Resist UR with all your heart, because what you resist will persist; and one day; when the LOVE of God floods your heart beyond measurement of "right/wrong"; you will KNOW. 

for this is eternal life, to KNOW the true God. 

blessings, and keep digging; for there is a walk that we must all walk; and the journey is incredible. 

[TheDiscipleShip]

I'm not digging for your beliefs. I'm digging to stop your beliefs. If you haven't read my posts previously, I have no interest in the blasphemy of Universalism. The bible doesn't say everybody will go to Heaven, but that everybody will confess that Jesus is Lord. However, Revelation says that after the bridegroom returns to get the rest of the earth, many will confess that Jesus is Lord, but will not be saved. If you die, and you don't confess that Jesus is Lord before your death, you're going to Hell.. Well, if you don't do it with your heart in it, you're going to Hell.

And you're right, there's a reason I'm here. God showed me how wrong this really is. You're going to lead more people to Hell than you will to Heaven and their blood will be on your hands. You might think I'm wrong, but when I saw a video of the creator of this website speaking, I got very angry. And I felt as if God was speaking to me to stop this perverse belief before it dragged everybody to Hell.

[Beloved Servant]

Stan,
While searching the Holy Scriptures, how about, one day, try to prove the salvation and restitution of all instead of trying to disprove it.
What you find may prove interesting if you just look for it.

[Zeek]

I'm not digging for your beliefs. I'm digging to stop your beliefs. If you haven't read my posts previously, I have no interest in the blasphemy of Universalism. The bible doesn't say everybody will go to Heaven, but that everybody will confess that Jesus is Lord. However, Revelation says that after the bridegroom returns to get the rest of the earth, many will confess that Jesus is Lord, but will not be saved. If you die, and you don't confess that Jesus is Lord before your death, you're going to Hell.. Well, if you don't do it with your heart in it, you're going to Hell.

And you're right, there's a reason I'm here. God showed me how wrong this really is. You're going to lead more people to Hell than you will to Heaven and their blood will be on your hands. You might think I'm wrong, but when I saw a video of the creator of this website speaking, I got very angry. And I felt as if God was speaking to me to stop this perverse belief before it dragged everybody to Hell.

I understand your belief, and it, just like prophecies, tongues and knowledge will cease and become useless; as LOVE springs up from your belly; and living water will flow.  

[reFORMer]

We know Jesus sends us into all the world to preach the gospel to EVERY creature.  Assuming ceaseless torture for ever, He knows ahead of time who will be rejected and have to endure it.  So, by telling us to tell them the good news He has made us liars, because the truth to them would be the worst possible news imaginable.

And TheDiscipleship, the English Dictionary is not the Scripture God gave us which is in Greek and Hebrew.  Generally, using good translations is fine.  However, for important and finer points we should search out the original languages.  If we are going to tell someone else what to believe (or even ourselves) we should use the words God chose to make His revelation known.  If you cannot quote from Scripture the actual words you are using to say what you believe I am not only not obligated to believe what you say, I ought to disbelieve it.

TheDiscipleship said: "Even in John Chapter 3, in the same paragraph that contains what many regard as the most essential verse of Christianity (John 3:16), it speaks about who will enter Heaven and who will be condemned to Hell."

This is an example of what I'm trying to point out.  Heaven and hell are nowhere mentioned in the passage of Scripture to which you refer.  It speaks of conditions of our nature, states of being, not places, and not places in death.

[Zeek]

You're going to lead more people to Hell than you will to Heaven and their blood will be on your hands.

you've given me more power than the cross itself.   :thumbdown:

[peacemaker]

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

"Man cannot comprehend the existence of error; when to deeply immersed in it."

Now, I will ask you again ... What is heaven in the literal sense, based on your feeling?

peacemaker

[eaglesway]

Eph 1:9-10  He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention(eudokia eu-good dokia-will) which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.


Col 1:15-20  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.  For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.  He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.  He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.  For it was the Father's good pleasure(eudokia) for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Everywhere you see red it is the same Greek word, pas-meaning "the all" or "all things" or "everything". In Colossians this "all" is defined by 1)every single thing He created 2)everything He is pre-eminent over 3)everything that holds together in Him 4)all things visible, invisible, in the heavens and in the earth

Joh 1:3  All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.


Heb 1:3  And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and all things hold together by the word of His power.

Php 2:9-11  For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,  so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



1Co 15:22-28  For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.  The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all(pas en pas).

God's kind intention(eu dokia) which He purposed in Him was and is and will be the gathering of all things together into Christ through the reconciliation provided by the blood of His cross so that God's good pleasure(eudokia) will be fulfilled- that He, the I AM, will be ALL IN ALL, FOR FROM HIM AND THROUGH HIM AND TO HIM ARE ALL THINGS. This is the mystery(musterion) hidden from ages past but now revealed through His holy apostles and prophets- the gospel(eu aggelo) of our salvation(sozo-deliverance). It is the good news(eu aggelo) carried by beautiful feet on the mountain tops. It is the glad tidings(euaggelo) of good will(eudokia) towards all(pas), that was declared by the angels to the sheperds at the birth of the one who says, "BEHOLD (see, understand) I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW."

Rev 5:13  And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."


Rom 11:32-36  For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.  (33)  Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!  (34)  For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?  (35)  Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN?  (36)  For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Grace and peace to you, and may the good news awaken your dawn......

Eph 1:15-23  For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,  and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.   And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Act 3:19-21(Peter)  "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;   and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

2Pe 1:19-21  So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.  But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,  for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

[Zeek]

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

"Man cannot comprehend the existence of error; when to deeply immersed in it."

Now, I will ask you again ... What is heaven in the literal sense, based on your feeling?

peacemaker

the world we see is a projection from the lens we wear (the tree we like to perch ourselves upon), one of separation, judgment, anger, right, wrong, blame, condemnation.....

and soon to be replaced with the lens of LOVE (tree of life), once the other tree/lens is chopped down and burned.   Oh to see through the lens of LOVE.  Things seem so beautiful now. 

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfLI1l_Pda4

[eaglesway]

Repent (change your mind, your perception and direction), for the kingdom of heaven is at hand(here now, within you and without)

Act 17:24-29  "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;  nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;  for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.' "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.

[WhiteWings]

How many reference verses do the universalists have that point to "Universal salvation" or a "temporary Hell?"

All the verses you wrongly translate as eternity. It's not about the defenition of the English word, but original Greek/Hebrew word.

I know I'm going to Heaven. Not because of anything I've really done (while the bible tells us that if we accept Christ we'll go to Heaven), but because I know that it's not by my works but by the Grace of God that I'll get into Heaven.

But the Grace is defined in such a way that basicly works earn the grace. Is that still grace?

SQ, you quoted a bible verse from 1 Tim 4. The word in there, "specially," is either misleading myself, or misleading you.

English is not my first language but I know (e)specially is not about excluding certain things. It's about emphasizing certain things.
"I like icecream, especially lemon." Does that mean I don't like strawberry ice cream? No it just means I like lemon even more.

2 Timothy 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.

What does that verse mean according to you? Only take the parchments and leave the cloak and books behind?

[WhiteWings]

I can claim that I, on a daily basis, strive to keep my bible handy. I'm still in high school, and I read it every chance I get (to gain attention so that I can start conversation without seeming to do so intentionally), so that I can also better minister to the lost.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

[jabcat]

Hell is a mistranslation of several specific Greek and Hebrew words. Eternal (as in eternal torment) is mistranslated from the Greek word 'aion', having to do with an age, a period of time. Jesus died to save us from death (the wages of sin is death). Paul declares Jesus to be the Savior of the world, not exclusively, but ESPECIALLY of believers (I Tim. 4:10). He also describes how all will be made alive, each in their own order. And that as in Adam all died, in Christ [the same] all will be made alive.

The Lake of Fire is purifying (Lake of Theos Pur = lake of divine purification), and every knee will bow, every tongue confess Jesus is Lord. Lord means 'master'. Confess means to acknowledge openly/joyfully proclaim. One cannot confess Jesus as Lord except IN the Holy Spirit (not BY the Holy Spirit, as incorrectly translated).

There is no other name whereby men must be saved. God gives the faith to believe upon Jesus for salvation, and enables repentance.  We are required to make choices within the parameters God sets. Scripture states we plan our way, but God directs our steps - in John Jesus said "you did not choose me, I chose you". Scripture describes how some are chosen now, the ecclesia, set aside for a purpose - part of which is to rule the nations and bring in the rest - God is reconciling all creation, as described by Paul.

If one takes a totally literal, futuristic view of The Revelation, in the last chapter of the book the gates to the city of New Jerusalem are open night and day, as the kings of the earth bring their treasures into it. There is no more tears or pain, and the leaves of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations. God has a plan for the ages. Jesus will subdue everything, including death and the grave, then He will hand all to the Father, Who will be ALL in ALL - Not all in Some, but All in All. Praise God for His Son - His death, His resurrection, His grace and mercy.

Search the scriptures. "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, but it is the honor of kings to search out a matter". "By your traditions you make the Word of God of no effect". Nothing unclean can inherit the Kingdom of God - all our wood, hay, stubble will be burned, the spirit will be saved in the day of the Lord.

..unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say..  (Ephesians 1:10)

[WhiteWings]

If one takes a totally literal, futuristic view of The Revelation, in the last chapter of the book the gates to the city of New Jerusalem are open night and day, as the kings of the earth bring their treasures into it. There is no more tears or pain, and the leaves of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations. God has a plan for the ages. Jesus will subdue everything, including death and the grave, then He will hand all to the Father, Who will be ALL in ALL - Not all in Some, but All in All. Praise God for His Son - His death, His resurrection, His grace and mercy.

And that a temporary thing because the endresult is found in another book.

Read again Rev.22:14-15 and you will see that those who are outside the gate are those who are under Gods judgment and that if they keep His commandments have the right to the tree of life and may ENTER IN THOUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.

Revelation 22:14-15  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"In the book of Revelation we do not have the final plan of God. Paul, in 1Co_15:22-28 takes us much further into the future than does the book of Revelation. To illustrate this more clearly, study the following: 1Co_15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20-22: 

In 1Co_15:22-28, we have:
 

No more rule 
No more authority 
No more power 
No more enemies 
No more reigning 
All subjected 
No more death, death destroyed
All made alive, immortal   


In Revelation 20-22, we have: 


Still rule (Rev_20:6; Rev_22:5) 
Son still reigns (Rev_22:1-5; Rev_21:5) 
Authority (Rev_21:24-25) 
Power (Rev_21:24-25; Rev_22:2) 
Kings (Rev_21:24-26) 
Saints reign (Rev_22:5) 
Second death still exists (Rev_21:8) 
The nations still mortal (Rev_22:2)"   

[WhiteWings]

These three series of verses tell us that not everybody will go to Heaven. There are many, MANY other verses about this topic. One of them even says, "He who seeks in life will be rewarded in death, but he who ignores Christ will not be rewarded." I don't have a reference for this (I heard it on some tv show, it might actually be a verse from the book of Mormon, so if it is, ignore it).

Why ignore it? You are using so many apocryptical books and none Bibiblical sources. Then why igonore that one verse?   :winkgrin:

There are thousands upon millions of verses in the bible. There are billions upon trillions of words in the bible. I wouldn't be surprised if someone confused themselves.

I think you are the one that is confused because there are far far less verses/words in a regular Bible. About 31100 verses. Nothing wrong with reading some commentaries by Dante but they are not part of the Bible.

[WhiteWings]

9 " 'Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and perjury, [a] burn incense to Baal and follow other gods you have not known, 10 and then come and stand before me in this house, which bears my Name, and say, "We are safe"-safe to do all these detestable things? 11 Has this house, which bears my Name, become a den of robbers to you? But I have been watching! declares the LORD.
...........
These three series of verses tell us that not everybody will go to Heaven. There are many, MANY other verses about this topic. One of them even says, "He who seeks in life will be rewarded in death, but he who ignores Christ will not be rewarded." I don't have a reference for this (I heard it on some tv show, it might actually be a verse from the book of Mormon, so if it is, ignore it).

Stan let us just look that the above verse.
Does it state such people will eventually enter Heaven? => No
Does it state such people will never enter Heaven? => No

We all have sinned. The Bible even states that someone that broke one law broke 'm all. Other verses mention more sins. Did you ever sin? I guess your answer is yes.
By your reasoning that means you will goto hell because you are a sinner. The wages of sin is death. (Death thats different from eternal torture)
So why you think you are saved? Because you asked for forgiveness? Because you kneeled? Why does that save you but not others after death? (there is no verse that states the repenting stops at death)
Why is your kneeling superior of that of others? Will the people that lived before Jesus started His ministry will rot in hell because they never heard of Jesus, just because they died before they could know about Jesus. For you it's all so obvious: Goto a bookstore and pick up a Bible. Goto a church. Etc. But are you aware many people live in part of the world that don't have bookstores. Will they rot in hell because they live in a poor country. Or for example tribes in the Amazon forrest. They think they are the only ones on this planet. Will they rot in hell because they were born in that forrest?

I don't want to be harsh but because you do the same I want to say to you that you will make 0.0 chance converting anyone on this forum if you don't have a clue what UR is about and you are not aware what the original texts 'say'. And even your commentary on English words......well I will just mention "especially". Never start a battle unprepared.
And then I can very well understand you are upset by the video of Gary. They debunk the teaching of your god mentioned in:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

But there IS hope for you Stan. Lots of it. Your are saved.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous

[WhiteWings]

The cross acts as a bridge to God. Without acknowledging that a bridge exists, how are you supposed to cross the bridge? Without acknowledging that the cross was the bridge to Heaven, how are you supposed to cross that bridge TO Heaven? You can't. But if you don't know the dangers of what lies underneath the bridge, how would you know that the cross is the best path to choose?

Stan, is Moses saved? Job? Noah? David? Daniel? All good men but they didn't know about the cross that acts as a bridge.
I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The mentioned people are part of "no one"; so I assume your answer is no.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I know I'm going to Heaven. Not because of anything I've really done (while the bible tells us that if we accept Christ we'll go to Heaven), but because I know that it's not by my works but by the Grace of God that I'll get into Heaven.

You have just defined the belief that Christian universalism actually teaches.     Amen.

[eaglesway]

Eph 1:3-4  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,  just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

Eph 1:18-21  These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might   which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,  far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Eph 2:4-7  But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,  even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),  and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Eph 4:10  He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.

The kingdom of heaven is here within us, the members of the body of Christ, the tabernacle of the living God- we are being built together as living stones as a habitation of God in the Spirit- a city set on a hill, a Bride "coming down out of heaven". Soon death(finity) will be swallowed by immortality(infinity) and God will be revealed as all in all in the ages to come. The veil between heaven and earth will be removed for all. At present it is only removed for those who believe and are in the Spirit. They have entered the kingdom of heaven and it has entered them. They are the lamps set on the lampstand, individually. They are the ciy set on a hill corporately(see Hebrews 12). "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me."  This is the kind intention(eudokia) of God through the ages, the good pleasure(eudokia) of His purpose(who works all things according to the counsel of His will) in Christ Jesus, the good message(euaggelo) of the gospel(euaggelo), the mystery of His will-the glad tidings(euaggelo) of good will(eudokia) for all people.