So you say you believe in eternal torment

[valueallhumanlife2008]

Then please answer a few questions

1.  a)  eternal torment b) the holocaust
If you could've prevented one of them from occuring your choise would be "a" without question.  Yes or No?

2.  You Love God and desire to strengthen your relationship with Him, but eternal torment is putting a major strain on it.  You know that if eternal torment were false it would do wonders for your relationship with our All Loving God.  Yes or No?

3.  You certainly do strive to care for your unsaved Loved ones, but it's a struggle everyday for your tormented in your mind of their fate if nothing changes.  Yes or No?

4.  It is a struggle for you everyday to just get out of bed.  Smiling is extremely difficult, you are tormented every single day with thoughts of the unsaved in horrible agony for all eternity.  The horror of your mental condition is not just suspected by others, but they see it clearly and know that you are extremely mentally ill.  They worry for you.  Sometimes you wish you were never born, because to you the universe is nothing but one big cosmic nightmare.  You yourself are in nearly unbearable inner torment.  Yes or No?

5.  You would NOT DARE have kids.  You would know that is one of the most selfish things you can possibly do.  When others have kids and all their friends and family are giving their congratulations, you can not honestly congratulate them, because you know that it is a tragedy every single time a baby enters this world.  It is something more horrible than you can imagine.  Yes or No?


If you answered "No" to any of these questions then you do not truly believe in eternal torment.  It's as simple as that. 

Just so you guys know, I am actually not a universalist.  I believe in conditional immortality, however I can truly sympathize with universalists and share with them in the glorious truth that one day suffering will no longer exist.

God bless you all,
Chris

[Paul Hazelwood]

Just so you guys know, I am actually not a universalist.  I believe in conditional immortality, however I can truly sympathize with universalists and share with them in the glorious truth that one day suffering will no longer exist.

What exactly is the fate you believe will happen to someone that does not become immortal?

[valueallhumanlife2008]

I believe that the second death is where unbelievers are mercifully put to death body and soul.  I do not believe that God tortures people forever, but at the same time I believe that immortality and eternal life is a gift only for those who believe.

[WhiteWings]

Then please answer a few questions

1.  a)  eternal torment b) the holocaust
If you could've prevented one of them from occuring your choise would be "a" without question.  Yes or No?

2.  You Love God and desire to strengthen your relationship with Him, but eternal torment is putting a major strain on it.  You know that if eternal torment were false it would do wonders for your relationship with our All Loving God.  Yes or No?

Hard question for me. My belief is very weak at best. So I also never feared hell. That said: No

3.  You certainly do strive to care for your unsaved Loved ones, but it's a struggle everyday for your tormented in your mind of their fate if nothing changes.  Yes or No?

No

4.  It is a struggle for you everyday to just get out of bed.  Smiling is extremely difficult, you are tormented every single day with thoughts of the unsaved in horrible agony for all eternity.  The horror of your mental condition is not just suspected by others, but they see it clearly and know that you are extremely mentally ill.  They worry for you.  Sometimes you wish you were never born, because to you the universe is nothing but one big cosmic nightmare.  You yourself are in nearly unbearable inner torment.  Yes or No?

No. But I have to add that I don't agree with "If you answered "No" to any of these questions then you do not truly believe in eternal torment.  It's as simple as that."
Some believe ET exists but they are elected for Heaven; so they don't fear because they won't feel the pain of eternal torture.

5.  You would NOT DARE have kids.  You would know that is one of the most selfish things you can possibly do.  When others have kids and all their friends and family are giving their congratulations, you can not honestly congratulate them, because you know that it is a tragedy every single time a baby enters this world.  It is something more horrible than you can imagine.  Yes or No?

No

Just so you guys know, I am actually not a universalist.  I believe in conditional immortality, however I can truly sympathize with universalists and share with them in the glorious truth that one day suffering will no longer exist.

Personally I find ED more logical than UR. I've seen quite  a few arguments for ED. Again far more reasonble/solid as the ET stuff. But overall I vote UR. My guess I you will find several other UR voters on this forum  :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

I believe that the second death is where unbelievers are mercifully put to death body and soul.  I do not believe that God tortures people forever, but at the same time I believe that immortality and eternal life is a gift only for those who believe.

Do you believe they will be killed immediately or after some punishment?
One thing that always puzzled me about ED is: Why are the dead resurrected and after that almost immediately killed again?

[valueallhumanlife2008]

I believe that the second death is where unbelievers are mercifully put to death body and soul.  I do not believe that God tortures people forever, but at the same time I believe that immortality and eternal life is a gift only for those who believe.

Do you believe they will be killed immediately or after some punishment?
One thing that always puzzled me about ED is: Why are the dead resurrected and after that almost immediately killed again?

I believe the reason for this is because God will have all people come to a knowledge of the truth.  They will see what they missed and be put to shame and then die a second death.  The second death is eternal because there will be no resurrection from it.  Therefore unbelievers suffer "eternal punishment" not "eternal punishING" which is something completely different altogether.

[WhiteWings]

Fully agree with the "ING" argument.
I could be totally wrong but I think God is a very fast Judge. No hearing that last for months. The verdict is ready when you are resurrected. Say God resurrects-judges-kills the sinner in 1 second. Does the sinner really comprehend the truth? Or do you think the sinner will be kept alive, say a year, to feel the shame?

The judgment is of no benefit for God. He already knew things so nothing to gain for Him. Perhaps "every knee will bow" That would give Him glory. Or not? Depends what kneeling means. Worship? Speaking for myself now: If I would be judged to be killed, aka put on death row, I will likely know God exists etc. But I doubt I can really worship someone that is going to kill me in a short while.... :dontknow:

[Shadow]

1.  a)  eternal torment b) the holocaust
If you could've prevented one of them from occuring your choise would be "a" without question.  Yes or No?

YES

3.  You certainly do strive to care for your unsaved Loved ones, but it's a struggle everyday for your tormented in your mind of their fate if nothing changes.  Yes or No?

YES

4.  It is a struggle for you everyday to just get out of bed.  Smiling is extremely difficult, you are tormented every single day with thoughts of the unsaved in horrible agony for all eternity.  The horror of your mental condition is not just suspected by others, but they see it clearly and know that you are extremely mentally ill.  They worry for you.  Sometimes you wish you were never born, because to you the universe is nothing but one big cosmic nightmare.  You yourself are in nearly unbearable inner torment.  Yes or No?

YES, YES, OH YES and this has lasted well over 2 years now  :sigh:

5.  You would NOT DARE have kids.  You would know that is one of the most selfish things you can possibly do.  When others have kids and all their friends and family are giving their congratulations, you can not honestly congratulate them, because you know that it is a tragedy every single time a baby enters this world.  It is something more horrible than you can imagine.  Yes or No?

YES again, when I identified as christian, I grasped this concept so quickly, then approximately 10 years ago, I knew for sure I'd never be a mother, however on the 13 Jan this year my brother gave birth to a baby boy, under the ET paradigm it's a nightmare beyond comprehension  :sigh: , will the nightmare ever end  :dontknow:

I had to answer question 2 as a "NO", although I believe in God, I don't identify as a christian (I am theistic agnostic, which means I believe in God, but don't know God)

Just so you guys know, I am actually not a universalist.  I believe in conditional immortality, however I can truly sympathize with universalists and share with them in the glorious truth that one day suffering will no longer exist.

I could never, ever worship an ET God, and I think that conditional immortality is closer to UR than ET

Not existing to me is not such bad news to me as to most people here, in fact it's my own personal preference right now, and sounds like music to my ears, I don't like the idea of living forever (immortality)