Notes on Romans Ch. 1& 2, and the judging/discerning of men.

[eaglesway]

Rom 1:17-22  For the righteousness of God in it(the good news, vs 16) is revealed from faith to faith, according as it hath been written, `And the righteous one by faith shall live,'  for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness. Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead--to their being inexcusable;  because, having known God they did not glorify Him as God, nor gave thanks, but were made vain in their reasonings, and their unintelligent heart was darkened, professing to be wise, they were made fools,

   It would first appear in Romans chapter one that Paul is judging unbelievers for sins of the flesh, and this is how it is usually taught. As we know there were no chapters and verses in the original manuscripts. If we do not break the Logos up in this way, we see in Romans one and two together(and onward) a clear revelation of how God judges and reveals His discernment of all men. The real target of this early portion of Romans is those who condemn and control others, and justify it as if they fulfilled the law in their own conduct and knowledge of God. This point is made in the statement "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen".
   Men are judged/discerned by the divine nature. God gave the written law to Israel to establish equity and mercy and life, so that they would be a lampstand to the nations revealing the love and justice of God. The leaders stripped the law of all its provisions for fairness and mercy (swallowing camels) and hung a bunch of additions and misinterpretations upon it(straining at gnats) in order to "suppress the truth in unrighteousness", and maintain their unrighteous stewardship over the people. As their "knowing God"(partakers of the divine nature, heart relation) was replaced by "knowing about God" (mind driven gnostic legalism and self righteousness) they became darkened in their understanding. Why? Because those who are the flesh cannot receive the things of God's spirit for it is foolishness to them. If you take the Spirit of the lawgiver(divine nature) out of the law, it becomes lawlessness. The letter deals death. The Spirit gives life because it is the Spirit that imparts the divine nature(fruits of the Spirit). Anyone who is a ruler in this age cannot receive the hidden wisdom(1 Cor 2:7). The hidden wisdom is that which is revealed unto babes- those who receive the kingdom(patakers of the divine nature) in meekness as a child.

    Rom 2:23-24  You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God?  (24)  For "THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU," just as it is written.
(You who boast in your understanding of the word, when you reject the love of God, do you dishonor God? Because of you the way is evil spoken of among the unbelievers)

    This verse was written to a group of people in Paul's time, but it reveals an eternal truth to all men. If we translate this statement to modern Christians, recognizing that if you want to be justified by the law (religious knowledge and works), you must keep ALL of the law. In other words, if I call myself "Christian" and proclaim everyone else (not doctrinally acceptable or "Christian" as I define it) bound for condemnation because they don't "know Jesus"- while living as if we don't "know Jesus"(not flowing the divine nature), I am the people Paul is writing to. The underlying principle(regarding legalism & hypocrisy) is the truth- not the detail of who Paul was writing to(the Hebrews). Knowing that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", the ones who claim to "know God" and "to be teachers of the blind" ought to embrace the inclusive mercy of God and exclaim it as the "good news" of which Paul was not ashamed. The gospel of those who fail to discern the eternal power and divine nature of God is one which shames every compassionate soul. In understanding the deeper meaning in Romans early chapters, some more of this "good news" is revealed.

Rom 2:26-29  So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?  And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?  For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.  But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

If you make some substitutions and read it like this

Rom 2:26-29  So if the unknowledgeable man keeps the requirements of Christ's love, will not his ignorance be regarded as wisdom?  And he who is unknowledgeable, if he walks in love, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Bible and intellectual awareness are a transgressor of Christ's love?  For he is not a Christian who is one outwardly, nor is the love of God that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Christian who is one inwardly; and God's love is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

In such an understanding you receive the underlying principle- the "absolute being" of the Logos. In this light our gnostic(knowledge based religion) defenses break down. Our "lip service" no longer shields us and our understanding is illuminated. Then we are hesitant to judge others, as we should be, because only God knows the secrets of men's hearts- and he surely knows ours. There will be many who will despise such an understanding however, straining at the gnats(words, the letter) and swallowing the camels(understanding from the heart). The reason they reject understanding is that it sets men free from the dominion of their religion. It takes away their authority for condemning everyone who is on the outside of their understanding. It diminishes the scope of their unrighteous power with which they "suppress the truth in unrighteousness".

Making the same substitutions a little further on in Paul's discourse on how God judges....

Rom 2:14-16  For when people who do not have the intellectual awareness do instinctively the things that Jesus commands, these, not having the Law of God's love, are a law to themselves,  in that they show the work of God's law of love written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,  on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

   Only the arbitrary, religious, letter-bound intellect believes that God is arbitrarily judging all men based on an outer shell of doctrine. Especially when it is so poorly filled with compassion as today's Western fundamentalist Christianity. This is the modern Pharisee. The New Legalist. He is a superficial reader of the Bible, ignorant of the deeper streams of conscience contained in the law of Moses, the writings of the prophets and the words of Jesus and the apostles. It is important to note the fact that in the midst of these organizations there are always people of good heart. But as always, it is the organization that enforces the letter. In order to promote themselves against "the competiton" (other organizations) they elevate peripheral truths, cut them out of whole cloth, and create strongholds and fortresses that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God (which is partaking of the divine nature James 3:15-17; 2 Cor 3:) and condemn all who are on the "outside" of their understanding.
    All the while, it is not the head knowledge God approves, it is the manifestation of His love. "I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and in prison and you visited me." "Love one another". "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ."
    2Pe 1:4  For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises(powerful statements of  grace), so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature(flow the love of the Father and Christ Jesus in the Spirit), having escaped the corruption(of character) that is in the world by lust(the desire for recognition, praise, dominion over men and /or wealth).

More substitutions ( I know, I'm endangering my soul by corrupting the letter with the true meaning, pray for me)
     2Co 3:14-18  But their minds are hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the Bible the same veil remains unlifted, because it is only removed in the spirit of wisdom and revelation in Christ. So to this day whenever the Scriptures are read, a veil remains covering the eyes and ears of their hearts; but whenever a person begins to seek the Lord with their whole being in spirit and in truth, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is the total freedom that comes when the divine nature equips us to love God and man. Now we all who are so equipped by the Spirit, having the veil removed through intimate contact with Jesus (seeing the I AM as He is), beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord (fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith), are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory(progressively by grace to the glory of His grace), because the Lord loves us, and is in us liberally by the Spirit doing the work(Php 1:6  For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus).

   In this light , the overcomer is the one who abides "in Christ", the true vine, as a partaker of the divine nature(flowing the love of God and Christ to God and man) bearing fruit that will remain (eternal fruit). If we fall away from that "first love" into religious works and mind driven, knowledge based Christianity, the day will reveal it, and the fire will consume the works of wood, hay and stubble.
   

[Tim B]

I'm not sure I took it all in, but I enjoyed you're substituting words! It makes more sense, reading it the way you made it. Sometimes reading things, even in English, from 2,000 years ago, is a bit hard!

[Beth]

All the while, it is not the head knowledge God approves, it is the manifestation of His love. "I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and in prison and you visited me." "Love one another". "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ."

Taking some opportunity to read the posts.  Really good stuff  :thumbsup:

[HartleyDamboiseII]

 :goodpost: :NewB1: :IloveU: :Urock: :thanks: :ty:

Eagle , I am printing this cause I am blown away with this post, and want to share it with many.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.... LEE DAMBOISE II

[eaglesway]

YW Lee :smile:

[gregoryfl]

Yes, loved this very much!  :bgdance:

Ron

[Apoc]

I wonder if friendofmankind still reads this post?  I thought his question sparked talk on theology but also human psychology and wanted to chime in too.  If the purpose of entering marriage is to always get along because the two are predicted to remain constant in their persona...well I don't think that is possible.  I worry about making a decision on marriage by polling those around you in social circles too.  The results for each poll will vary drastically for us all.  I suggest that marriage is not always supposed to be a feel good journey.  Sorry to be such a spoiler, but maybe that helps get rid of the utopia or nothing standard when looking for a life-mate. I propose our generation has trouble with marriage because we are more self-centered and life has to always feel good to us, we have no conditioning for sacrifice and giving.

In regards to fornication,  I suggest a word study and study of cultural history. What many are calling fornication today would not match original applications.

As for the challenges of a gay male universal christian, yeah, that must be difficult. Maybe try being less gay, hahaha :laughing7:     I hope that doesn't have to be taken offensive.

[Beloved Servant]

Less gay?

[Apoc]

I think I have a stalker.

[Beloved Servant]

Truly,
Asking a particular single person to be less gay is the same as asking another single to be less hetero.
Fleshly desires are universal and ultimately spiritual in nature.
One's fleshly "desire" simply reflects ones spiritual lack.
If it is soulish; it's female.
If it is spiritual; it's male.
Thus the Lord Jesus was complete in Himself, not of the first Adam, divided, but complete in the Father.
There is no condemnation in Christ.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I wonder if friendofmankind still reads this post?  I thought his question sparked talk on theology but also human psychology and wanted to chime in too.  If the purpose of entering marriage is to always get along because the two are predicted to remain constant in their persona...well I don't think that is possible.  I worry about making a decision on marriage by polling those around you in social circles too.  The results for each poll will vary drastically for us all.  I suggest that marriage is not always supposed to be a feel good journey.  Sorry to be such a spoiler, but maybe that helps get rid of the utopia or nothing standard when looking for a life-mate. I propose our generation has trouble with marriage because we are more self-centered and life has to always feel good to us, we have no conditioning for sacrifice and giving.

In regards to fornication,  I suggest a word study and study of cultural history. What many are calling fornication today would not match original applications.

As for the challenges of a gay male universal christian, yeah, that must be difficult. Maybe try being less gay, hahaha :laughing7:     I hope that doesn't have to be taken offensive.

You make a good point.  My marriage has been great not because of getting along all the time, but the challenges my wife has caused my spirit in times of conflict.

[Quaesitor]

To the OP, that was really interesting, thanks, I think your rewording were right on the spot and brought a new light to my understanding.

About mariage, love is always about self-giving and sacrifice and it is not because of a lack of these virtues that there are so much divorces but because it's not bad to do it anymore.

Self-giving and sacrificial love were never popular in history.