Not sure if I like being the super-minority.

[natcat86]

As a believer in UR it puts you in the minority. Its so hard sometimes. I'm at the point now where I know that 99.9999% of christian resources, even the ones where I agree with what they are saying, say about marriage or something, I know they believe in ET, and so I think, well i probably agree with your whole theology about the same amount as a JW! Argh, i'm having a tough one at the moment, I feel very isolated. Sometimes I almost wish I hadnt heard the true good news because then at least I would still feel part of something, the traditional church.

I've been looking at chritstian missions abroad with a view maybe to donate or teach in the future but I dont want to give to any group that believes ET so you can imagine tht reduces the options!

The more I learn about christianity as it is now the more pagan and carnal it seems to me, the more isolated I feel. If I had a group of UR believers to fellowship with in my city it would help but there are no such groups.

I'm just feeling sorry for myself, the news about Haiti has really uspet me so much and I think its just put me into a bit of a sorrowful mood in general so things that were niggeling me before are really troubeling me now.

Sorry for the rant, but was wondering if anyone else has felt like this and what did you/God do about it?

:HeartThrob:

[B_T]

Don't worry. First, don't forget that Jesus actually WAS in the Minority. Knowing the world during this time, only 12 people (the apostles) were his close friends. Most of the theologians rejected him and most of the ordinary people walked with him and left him.  Well... There were thousands of people all over the world that day. So yes, roughly translated those who understood his teachings could have been 99.9% at least.

Secondly... we are not sure if all of these 99.9% are really straight Christian fundies. There are many who are Universalists, but will never share this direcltly with you... because they fear the pastors/teachers won't understand them. Certainly, there are some who defend Endless  torment at all cost. I know such people. We don't know also why these defenders really defend Endless torment (ET). One of the main reason is FEAR - you question a fundamental doctrine and if you believe you will go to hell for this, then... you should avoid questioning it. There are other reasons.

So my advice will be : Don't look for Universal Christians at Church. Look for open-minded Christians who have developed critical thinking. This is also hard - a lot of Christians have been indoctrinated since childhood and have no developed critical thinking. After you find such people, you can start discussing theological issues with them.

[fullarmor2]

I've been looking at chritstian missions abroad with a view maybe to donate or teach in the future but I dont want to give to any group that believes ET so you can imagine tht reduces the options!

      I have been giving to a group called Life Outreach International.  You have probably heard of it.   They have a TV program hosted by James Robinson.  On the program you see pictures and hear testimonials of their missionaries in Africa giving food and water  to the starving, thirsty people.    Now,   I don't really care what they believe doctrinally about eternal torment or anything else,     I support them because they are helping the poor and needy.     When I saw them digging wells for those poor people,  and handing out those red bowls of food,   I just wanted to support them.   Either with money, or by going over there with them.
     

[natcat86]

      I have been giving to a group called Life Outreach International.  You have probably heard of it.   They have a TV program hosted by James Robinson.  On the program you see pictures and hear testimonials of their missionaries in Africa giving food and water  to the starving, thirsty people.    Now,   I don't really care what they believe doctrinally about eternal torment or anything else,     I support them because they are helping the poor and needy.     When I saw them digging wells for those poor people,  and handing out those red bowls of food,   I just wanted to support them.   Either with money, or by going over there with them.
     

My main concern with giving to groups who support and preach ET is that in some cases, there is a certain amount of bribary going on, you can have these things but you must join up to our belief sort of thing. I'm giving to secular charities at the moment because if they are not talking about God at all at least they arent telling them lies about God.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Sorry for the rant, but was wondering if anyone else has felt like this and what did you/God do about it?

:HeartThrob:

Yes I have felt that way.  Nothing has really been done about it other than I accept how I feel and it is worth it.   I feel much much worse to sit in churches smiling at people and pretending that I believe things I really do not.


   

[martincisneros]

It's all a part of the maturing process.  You eventually get to where nobody believes what you believe 'cept for you and Christ Jesus 'cause half the people that MIGHT believe as you believe about all matters, if they were to hear you on all matters would find a way of finding fault with the way you put a particular something. :dontknow:

St. Paul was the only one who believed the way he believed, if you'll remember your pre Acts 15 history.  So, he went into all of the world to fix that little technicality :winkgrin:

Got punched in the mouth a few times for it, but almost nothing he'd do differently if he had it to do all over again :HeartThrob:

[fullarmor2]

My main concern with giving to groups who support and preach ET is that in some cases, there is a certain amount of bribary going on, you can have these things but you must join up to our belief sort of thing. I'm giving to secular charities at the moment because if they are not talking about God at all at least they arent telling them lies about God.

       Thats a good point.   I wouldn't want to support the "turn or burn message" .    I don't think Life Outreach talks about that though.   The only thing I ever hear them talking about is ministering food and water to the people.   What do you think about Life  Outreach,   have you ever heard of it ?   

[reFORMer]

At times screaming and blubbering, spraying tears and begging God...feeling like I can't stand it anymore, like probably the priests of Baal felt when they danced around, cutting themselves to be able to cry out with greater earnestness...it's impossible to express with words the meaning of lack of fellowship with those of like mind, of being alone when He's put so much in you to share.  We're born to love, yet everyone seems to flee from our welcoming arms.  Then, in addition, there's the horrible pain of those that, though they misunderstand certain things about God, have something of a real relationship with God and, rather than be led into a more accurate understanding, viciously reject you for the truth, even lying to others about you.

We need to ask ourselves how able are we to lead them into not just knowledge of His word, but a greater intimacy with the Holy Spirit.  Remind yourself over and over, who we are and what we mean to God should make what other people think of us to be dung by comparison.  But how close to Him is our experience?  How much Has He shown to us of Himself? or of our own selves?  To seek Him with your whole heart, that is an approach to the secret of intimacy with God.  We are divided in our affection, conflicted without realizing it.  We senselessly cannot give our heart over to what we may only slightly discern:  the difference in value between God's revelation and peoples' expression or lack of it toward us.  This is why we receive little or nothing from the Lord.  We are so lacking in knowledge of God.

God would bring us into a greater intimacy if it would be our treasure.  He delights in showing off, in being known and admired.  But He gives His gifts to those who appreciate them.  The problems with it could be presented by way of an example of one who is miraculously healed that goes away with their newfound freedom to indulge in sins of the flesh they had been incapable of participating in before.  "Draw near unto God and He will draw near unto you."  The more we come into His presence , the more everything changes.  As the old song ("Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus") says, "'Til the things of earth grow strangely dim, in the light of His glory and grace."  This may sound trite because it is nothing new.  But there are few who actually enter the depths of God though it is opened to whosoever will without price.

Remember, the Ecclesia is gathered together unto Him, not you or any other kingdom representative, no matter how knowledgeable or gifted.  Enter into your Melchisedec calling.  The first Commandment is first for good reason.  There is no lack of contact with the rest of the universe with God.  But, first there is a God who is more than enough.  When it was that, "...the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him..." the "man" He was speaking of here is "Adam."  Unlike him, the last Adam became through death, resurrection and ascension "the new man" who is inherently a many membered man in its nature.  It is because we are undeveloped we lack experience of this, our reality.

You cannot make much progress into God while you believe other people are your fulfillment.  The desire arising from the death in Adam must be distinguished from outreaching koinia. (see, Rm 1:11)  Get this issue sufficiently resolved knowing He would withhold from us no good thing.  It is Adam who experiences his own isolation as an individual soul in a separate dirt pod.  Through Christ, everyone of us, "We are members one of another." (Ep 4: 25, also Rm 12:5)  Even without being physically present with one another there can be access to other members of the body through intimacy with the Holy Spirit.  Jesus is in each of us and we are in Him; hence, in one another.

To reiterate:  we think our problem is lack of fellowship with other people, while it is really our double mindedness about God, not acting on His being able to fulfill us.  This is foremost a call to prayer.  We are anchored within the veil and God is drawing us in.  Our tether gets shorter and shorter, causing what would have been our errant wanderings to become more like flipping and flapping, bouncing off things rather than entering.

Each of us is unique.  We have our own assignments.  It's still the truth that one member cannot say to another, "I have no need of you." (1 Co 12:21) Look for two or three in a spontaneous meeting here and there.  At the market or the mall, give expression to the Lord in your heart.  Invite to gather those showing interest in what you've shared.  Maybe a few can gather regularly at your place on a Saturday afternoon or some evening.  Just choose a certain day and time, make it known and at least be there yourself with the Lord.  See what God may do.  But don't try it until you feel the blessing of God to go ahead with it.  This is not about someone's "ministry."  True "service" to the body is to be together presented to the Holy Spirit for Him to function through His every member.  All Jesus is and does is in each one who has the indwelling Spirit of God.

Hebrews 13:10-15 (Concordant Literal Translation)...
10 We have an altar from which they have no right to be eating, who offer divine service in the tabernacle.
11 For the animals whose blood is carried into the holy places by the chief priest concerning sin, of these the bodies are burned up outside the camp.
12 Wherefore Jesus also, that He should be hallowing the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate.
13 Now then, we may be coming out to Him outside the camp, carrying His reproach.
14 For here we are not having a permanent city, but we are seeking for the one which is impending.
15 Through Him, then, we may be offering up the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of lips avowing His name.

[martincisneros]

Through Christ, everyone of us, "We are members one of another." (Ep 4: 25, also Rm 12:5)  Even without being physically present with one another there can be access to other members of the body through intimacy with the Holy Spirit.  Jesus is in each of us and we are in Him; hence, in one another.

You can know every single member of the Body on the exact same level & with the exact same thoroughness, even while still in these bodies -- same level as He knows each & every single one, moment by moment of each & every single day -- & to perpetually consciously know that you know each & every single one with the same clarity as if you were already in heaven 'cause according to Ephesians 2, you already are.  But the Written Word of God must become first priority & final authority in absolutely all things and then when Holy Spirit speaks up, then go do what He says when He says to do it, & expect to be His royal horse in the battle according to Zechariah 10:3. There's not a single reason for a single one of you to be unable to do absolutely each & every single thing that Christ Jesus can do RIGHT NOW, but the Written Word can't be just a few minutes a day. You should be just the exact same as Him to where your only limitation is when someone else disobeys.  That should be your only hindrance. Not mortality, not infirmity, not a lack of wisdom & knowledge -- nothing else, & even with that one potential kryptonite, you should still be able to overcome any negative consequences 7 to 9 times out of 10. His Word's gotta be first.

[lomarah]

wOw reFORMer! Awesome post!  :thumbsup:

natcat I am there as well. Like you I miss the fellowship and shared beliefs of those in the "church". Like reFORMer said:

We're born to love, yet everyone seems to flee from our welcoming arms.  Then, in addition, there's the horrible pain of those that, though they misunderstand certain things about God, have something of a real relationship with God and, rather than be led into a more accurate understanding, viciously reject you for the truth, even lying to others about you.

It hurts so badly to be rejected by those who were closest to you... I think maybe in a small way we are feeling what Jesus must have felt when He was on earth. People completely misunderstanding His motives and His message, considering Him a heretic and saying He had a demon. I feel empathy for them because they are so much in bondage and don't even know it. They live in fear when there is no reason to fear. But I know that, compared to eternity, it will only be a short time before every child will know the truth and be set free.  :cloud9:

[HartleyDamboiseII]

I have felt the same way for years,

I have no one to come together with except boards like these.

So I feel happy just dropping a seed here and there in the minds of His people who have been redirected/lied too all their lives.

Lee

[natcat86]

Wow reFORMer, that post spoke straight to my heart, convicting me and encouraging me all at once. I think it is true that I need to seek first a relationship with God, if I were doing that will all my heart, mind and strength I would have more than enough fellowship within that relationship. For some reason I find praying and reading my bible difficult. I find it easy to read articles and listen to worship songs, a sign of my over dependance to use others as a filter in my relationship with God. I guess thts what mainstream christianity teaches these days, bye these tapes/books, go to this meeting, here this person preach, you'll really hear from God. I need to learn to go to God just me alone.

Thanks for the feedback every one. Fullarmor2 I havent heard of them but will check them out now.

:HeartThrob:

[sheila]

   the 'Beautiful Counselor' has appeared on this

   thread! :HeartThrob:

   Isaaih 9;6

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, yes He has. Good post, Reformer  :thumbsup: