2nd coming of Christ

[Raggedy Anne]

Glad you are getting something from this, Zero. 

I'm looking right now at their list of anomalies.   I tend to agree with this one, generally.
http://www.bibleufo.com/anomprayer.htm

Raggedy Anne, not really following your comment on anomalies.  :dontknow:

Hey Zero -
Somehow I missed this comment from you.  I was just mentioning some of the other parts of the site I'd read - that's all.
Sorry if I confused anyone with that.

Anne

[Molly]

James 5:7
Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.


I was looking at this verse and noticed that the return of Jesus is associated with punishment of the wicked.


[unto the] "coming" [of the Lord]


G3952
παρουσία
parousia
par-oo-see'-ah
From the present participle of G3918; a being near, that is, advent (often, return; specifically of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physical aspect: - coming, presence.


1)Christ will return= the parousia

2)He will raise the dead, judge the world, establish his kingdom in the world



Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

[Barry DuPont]

James 5:7
Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.


I was looking at this verse and noticed that the return of Jesus is associated with punishment of the wicked.


[unto the] "coming" [of the Lord]


G3952
παρουσία
parousia
par-oo-see'-ah
From the present participle of G3918; a being near, that is, advent (often, return; specifically of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physical aspect: - coming, presence.


1)Christ will return= the parousia

2)He will raise the dead, judge the world, establish his kingdom in the world



Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Hey Molly,

Just a thought, but if the then promised judement is toward the "consience" that was attached to the "law" then would not "punishment" and "wrath" be the conviction and interpretation of the persons "consience"?

Jam 1:7   For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 
Jam 1:8   A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.

Jam 1:10   But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away. 
Jam 1:11   For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.

Jam 2:4   Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

Jam 2:9   But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 
Jam 2:10   For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

Jam 2:12   So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 
Jam 2:13   For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; {concerning that consience or the man of that consience} and mercy rejoiceth against judgment {in love consciousness}. 

Jam 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters {teachers of the law}, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation {as pertains to the consience}.

Jam 3:8   But the tongue can no man tame; [it is] an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. {the tongue that is under law}

Jam 3:14   But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth {of God's love}. 
Jam 3:15   This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish.

Jam 4:1 From whence [come] wars and fightings among you? [come they] not hence, [even] of your lusts that war in your members? {from a conscience under law}

Jam 4:8   Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded. {purifying of the heart, purifying of the consience}

Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. {IE they were not fulfilling the law through love but applying it in condemnation}

Jam 4:17   Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin. {the consience is judged}
Jam 5:1 Go to now, [ye] rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon [you].
Jam 5:2   Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. 
Jam 5:3   Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. 
Jam 5:4   Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. 
Jam 5:5   Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. 
Jam 5:6   Ye have condemned [and] killed the just; [and] he doth not resist you.
{They are judged in consience when they lose what they consider important. It is punishment for them of that consience. Because they did not abide in love consciousness}


Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 
Rom 2:2   But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 
Rom 2:3   And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 
Rom 2:4   Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 
Rom 2:5   But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 

They are punished and judged in their own consience.
None of this IMO has anything to do with a vindictive God, as we were most likely thought. Rather God was going to hold responsible the conscience that was under law imo at the end of the law and as part of the consumation of the law.

Hope you don't mind my thoughts,
Barry

[Molly]

Just a thought, but if the then promised judement is toward the "consience" that was attached to the "law" then would not "punishment" and "wrath" be the conviction and interpretation of the persons "consience"?

I've often wondered if people [in general] were different before Jesus appeared on this earth.  Do you think they were?


Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:



Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;


Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

[Barry DuPont]

Just a thought, but if the then promised judement is toward the "consience" that was attached to the "law" then would not "punishment" and "wrath" be the conviction and interpretation of the persons "consience"?

I've often wondered if people [in general] were different before Jesus appeared on this earth.  Do you think they were?


Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:



Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;


Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Molly, I understand Hebrews 10:16 as a covenant statement. So my view on that text is a kind of like a declaration for the "age" so to speak.

In other words it's not something that everyone know from the womb. It still has to be learned but it is true of this age.

But to address your question I think that you are on to something for sure. IMO, Jesus changed things and did so permanently. We certainly have our ups and downs, but things do over time, move in some very clear and distinct ways.

Dictators are becoming fewer and fewer. {We have a king of kings now we don't need them}
Women's rights are now irreversibly present in the consciousness of so many. {Neither male nor female}
Slavery is constantly and continually under scrutiny globally. {Neither slave nor free}
Even sectarianism which has always ruled the world is coming under increasing scrutiny. {All are one in Christ Jesus}
Statements like "one nation under God" or "inalienable rights" were not norms of the past. Some of this has its roots (to some extent) in the manda carta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta
Which IMO would not have come about if not for Jesus.


We defiantly have our problems, and defiantly have our pendulum swings back and forth, but we will now never totally lose what has been gained in the consciousness of our progress since Christ. And this will over time continue to build upon itself. 

Since Jesus entered the picture history can now begin to build upon itself in productive and loving ways. Before it was just a circular dead end.
IMO Jesus made everything new.
That's my opinion anyway.

Blessings, Barry

[Molly]

Just a thought, but if the then promised judement is toward the "consience" that was attached to the "law" then would not "punishment" and "wrath" be the conviction and interpretation of the persons "consience"?

I've often wondered if people [in general] were different before Jesus appeared on this earth.  Do you think they were?


Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:



Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;


Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Molly, I understand Hebrews 10:16 as a covenant statement. So my view on that text is a kind of like a declaration for the "age" so to speak.

In other words it's not something that everyone know from the womb. It still has to be learned but it is true of this age.

But to address your question I think that you are on to something for sure. IMO, Jesus changed things and did so permanently. We certainly have our ups and downs, but things do over time, move in some very clear and distinct ways.

Dictators are becoming fewer and fewer. {We have a king of kings now we don't need them}
Women's rights are now irreversibly present in the consciousness of so many. {Neither male nor female}
Slavery is constantly and continually under scrutiny globally. {Neither slave nor free}
Even sectarianism which has always ruled the world is coming under increasing scrutiny. {All are one in Christ Jesus}
Statements like "one nation under God" or "inalienable rights" were not norms of the past. Some of this has its roots (to some extent) in the manda carta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta
Which IMO would not have come about if not for Jesus.


We defiantly have our problems, and defiantly have our pendulum swings back and forth, but we will now never totally lose what has been gained in the consciousness of our progress since Christ. And this will over time continue to build upon itself. 

Since Jesus entered the picture history can now begin to build upon itself in productive and loving ways. Before it was just a circular dead end.
IMO Jesus made everything new.
That's my opinion anyway.

Blessings, Barry

Thank you. :HeartThrob:

It's such a battle every day.  Sometimes I lose sight of what you mentioned.  Satan doesn't ever seem to stop.

[Raggedy Anne]

    Molly, somehow I missed your post till tonight. I want to say, YES. I think it will have different effects upon different people. If every eye will see Him (to me meaning every sentient being of every age, place and time up to that time will experience that moment in some way), even those who pierced Him, then some will cry out to the rocks to hide them(even as Adam and Eve hid in the garden), while others will rejoice at His appearing. Some who are rooted in the systems of this age will see their houses fall while others who are rooted in the age to come will stand with all that "cannot be shaken and remains".

    Even now as the dawn grows towards the noon the houses that can be shaken are being shaken in the process of the birth pangs. The earth will yield her fruit like ripened figs shaken from the fig tree. The axe is always being laid to the root of the trees, the wheat always being separated from the chaff and burnt up with unquenchable fire. Every man's work is being tested by fire as the day reveals it, in part now, but then in full. The gold silver and precious stone will remain. That which cannot be shaken will remain. The fruit of John 15 (produced abiding in the vine) will remain, while the withered branches are being cut off and thrown into the fire, because the "day" burns up(withers) anything that falls away from "abiding life". Hence, even in view of the wonderful promise of ultimate universal reconciliation- the salvation of all- the warnings to keep our vessel full of oil, and abide in the vine, and endure to the end.

  I personally believe the body of Christ will become the Lamp set upon the lampstand shining light into all the house(earth), sort of like the negative ions on earth rise up to meet the positive ions coming down from the shy(ouranos/heavens/sky) creating the channel of the lightning when it flashes.

      Eph 4:11-15  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;  (12)  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ(woman clothed in the sun):  (13)  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a mature man(gestation), unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:(manchild)  (14)  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive(dragon breath);  (15)  But speaking the truth in love(effective warfare), may grow up into him in all things(caught up to his throne), which is the head, even Christ:

Eaglesway,

What a wonderful post - this vision you've written will remain with me till I fall asleep in Christ.

So glad to have you sharing your view.  Bless you.

Anne

[Molly]

Yea, amen, Thank you, Eaglesway!

The parousia will be different things to different people.  Maybe even happen at different times?



7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming ["PAROUSIA"] of the Lord. Behold , the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 8 Be ye also patient ; stablish your hearts: for the coming ["PAROUSIA"] of the Lord draweth nigh.

--James 5

[rosered]

  Thanks so much !!    :icon_flower:  God , bless you all  :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

The Fellowship of the Mystery

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship(koinonea) of the mystery(musterion), which from the (beginning of the world-aion) hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal(aion) purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
(Eph 3:8-11)

It is the will of God that we have an epiphany(epiphanea) everyday. A revelation(apokalupsis). An uncovering of the mystery(musterion). That Jesus Christ might be made manifest(phaneroo) in and through us, "TODAY", the day that the Lord has made, that we might hear His voice. "If I be lifted up", so that others may join The Fellowship Of the Mystery". Thus remaining "Awake" until the Coming/Appearing(parousia) of the Lord. (Awake O sleeper and rise from the dead and the light of Christ will shine on you). Only if we are looking forward to His appearing(eagerly awaiting, walking in "the day") will we be those who "rejoice at His appearing". Sleepers will be yawning. The wicked will be running and hiding. As chosen and elect, partakers of the divine nature by grace- " we all with unveiled(anakalupto) face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord and being transformed(metamorphoo) into the same image with ever increasing(progressive) glory by the Spirit......)

Man I love these words :Sparkletooth:

Epipheneia- Appearing (1Tim6:14,2Tim1:10;4:1,8, Tit2;13)fr. epiphaino epi-upon, phaino-shine forth

Apokalupsis- Appearing(1Peter 1:7), Lighten(Luke2:32),Revelation(Ro2:5,16:25,1Cor14:6&26 and many other
           verses),Manifestation(Ro8:17), Coming(1Cor 1:7) fr apo from kalupto to hide i.e. , unveil, uncover

Mysterion-Mystery (muo to shut the mouth) Wale shut ma mouth an call me happy!

Phaneroo- made manifest, appear Fr Phaino shine forth

Parousia (coming) Mt 24:3 (and 24 other verses)- interchangeable with erchomai (coming)Luke 21:27(used in over 600 verses relating physical appearance/arrival). Parousia is used in 2 Cor7:6&7 of the coming of Titus, in Romans 15:22, of Pauls having been hindered in "coming to you(to visit the Roman gathering)" and used relating to physical arrival in many many places of saints arriving. Same with erchomai. In Mt 20:28 erchomai refers to the Son of man coming to serve and give His life a ransom. In Luke 21:27 erchomai refers to the Son of man coming in the clouds with great glory. Always erchomai is refering to the physical arrival of the subject, again, in many many places.

The Lord's glorious return (full noon)will be all of these things that have dawned in those who are awake. Walking as pilgrims and aliens in this present evil aion having herein no continuing city.

The fulfillment of-

The Epiphany (inner revelation) now we know in part then we shall know as we are known
The Coming, when we shall receive the back end of the adoption, even the redemption of our bodies and "thus shall we ever be with the Lord"
The Manifestation of the sons of God for which all creation groans in eager anticipation
The Revelation, when we shall see Him as He is and all the kosmos will experience the veil being removed
The Appearing, when every eye will see Him in heaven and on earth and under the earth
The End, of this present evil aion and the transformation of the kosmos
The Restitution of All Things, when the Lord shall reign from His glorious throne and the Kingdoms of This world will become the Kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.


And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time(kairos, set/appointed time) he will be revealed. For the mystery(mysturion) of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. Then that lawless one will be revealed(apokalupto) whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance(epiphenia-bright shining) of His coming(parousia);
(2Th 2:6-8NAS)

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages(aion) and from generations(genea), but now is made manifest(phaneroo) to his saints: To whom God would make known(gnoizo) what is the riches of the glory of this mystery(musterion) among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
(Col 1:25-29)


Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation(apokalupsis) of the mystery(musterion) which has been kept secret(sigaio) for long ages past(chronos aionios), but now is manifested(phaneroo), and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal(aionios) God, has been made known(gnoizo) to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory throughout the ages. Amen.
(Rom 16:25-27NAS)

Grace & Peace y'all


And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life. "But many who are first will be last; and the last, first.
(Mat 19:28-30)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen! Blessings....