Split from Pray for Pres. Thread - Jealousy in God's Plan to be All in All

[Gab]

You seem to forget about the people who WERE drawn to Jesus, Molly - the throngs who followed him and all the good works he did going about healing the sick everywhere he went.  Just because there were thugs along the way doesn't mean that everyone rejected his goodness. 

And, for that matter, the people who were drawn to Jesus were not exactly the sort one would expect.  Matthew was a tax collector; Paul was a Pharisee.  The ones with the most faith included in their ranks lepers and Roman soldiers.  Meanwhile, the ones receiving the lion's share of Jesus' criticism and rebukes, and the ones depicted as having the most evil hearts, were the most religious members of society.

I have often remarked about the striking similarities that I see between modern-day Christians and the Pharisees in Jesus' time.  The outcasts are now the "in" crowd.  If Jesus were here on Earth today, I do not believe that those he would rebuke are those who most think he would rebuke.

[natcat86]

Those who persecuted Jesus the most were the "religious" ones. Maybe they weren't jealous, just worried they would be shown up by Jesus? Or maybe they were jealous but not of His relationship with Father but rather His relationship with people?

[Molly]

But in the end, they all turned on him--those he helped, the crowds who followed him through dusty streets hoping to see a miracle or hear a word, the high, the low, his friends, even Peter denied knowing him.


66And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

67And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

68But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.

--Mark 14

[noname]

I have often remarked about the striking similarities that I see between modern-day Christians and the Pharisees in Jesus' time.  The outcasts are now the "in" crowd.  If Jesus were here on Earth today, I do not believe that those he would rebuke are those who most think he would rebuke.

...and He would be a Palestinian from Gaza...

"Modern genetics testing has demonstrated that modern-day Palestinians have a direct genetic trail back to the biblical Israelites.

So here is the deal. Some of the people walking around Palestine, Gaza, and the West Bank are blood relatives of Jesus. Distant blood relatives, but still blood relatives. Given 2000 years, it is possible that the vast majority of present day Palestinians are remote relatives of Jesus."

full article here:
http://palestinian.ning.com/video/palestine-jesus-of-nazareth

[natcat86]

But in the end, they all turned on him--those he helped, the crowds who followed him through dusty streets hoping to see a miracle or hear a word, the high, the low, his friends, even Peter denied knowing him.


66And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

67And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

68But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.

--Mark 14

I'd always just assumed it was the mob mentality that they turned against him, with all the fear of the Roman occupation I imagine that it would be easy to turn Him into an enemy. The Romans didn't hate Him because of Him being the Christ, but becuase they were following orders. But I haven't really thought about it before in much detail so will look back over all the scripture you have posted Molly!  :happygrin:

[Molly]

I'd always just assumed it was the mob mentality that they turned against him,..

But isn't the mob mentality the flesh in action?  Or at least, our basest qualities?

[Taffy]

But in the end, they all turned on him--those he helped, the crowds who followed him through dusty streets hoping to see a miracle or hear a word, the high, the low, his friends, even Peter denied knowing him.


66And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

67And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

68But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.

--Mark 14

I'd always just assumed it was the mob mentality that they turned against him, with all the fear of the Roman occupation I imagine that it would be easy to turn Him into an enemy. The Romans didn't hate Him because of Him being the Christ, but becuase they were following orders. But I haven't really thought about it before in much detail so will look back over all the scripture you have posted Molly!  :happygrin:

Hi Nat ..Im From Ross-On Wye In Gloucestershire..I dnt think we met :icon_flower:

These Scrips Testify , that Flesh is Willing BUT weak Indeed, For we are NOTHING, lest  we are Born of Him. :icon_flower:

[natcat86]

Hi Taffy!

Hi Nat ..Im From Ross-On Wye In Gloucestershire..I dnt think we met :icon_flower:

These Scrips Testify , that Flesh is Willing BUT weak Indeed, For we are NOTHING, lest  we are Born of Him. :icon_flower:

Hi Taffy! I'm from Coventry! Do you attend a UR church? I havent been able to find any!  :sigh:

Sorry thats off topic!

I was wondering if like anger and sexual desire, Jealousy is another emotion that can be righteous but can be mutated into a carnal emotion unless you are born of Him??

[Taffy]

Hi Taffy!

Hi Nat ..Im From Ross-On Wye In Gloucestershire..I dnt think we met :icon_flower:

These Scrips Testify , that Flesh is Willing BUT weak Indeed, For we are NOTHING, lest  we are Born of Him. :icon_flower:

Hi Taffy! I'm from Coventry! Do you attend a UR church? I havent been able to find any!  :sigh:

Sorry thats off topic!

I was wondering if like anger and sexual desire, Jealousy is another emotion that can be righteous but can be mutated into a carnal emotion unless you are born of Him??

Hi Nat

yeah saw you were from Coventry..not tooooooooo many miles away.

as for the later..we are given authority \ power to cast out Spirits[ those that Give Life too] such as envy, hatred, fear etc... and all those which dont align to HIS Will

A bird [spirit]may Nest in your Hair[thoughts] , but you dont have to keep it there :icon_flower:

[sparrow]

First, it doesn't have to be literally murderous.  It just turns out that way a lot in the Bible.  For instance, Jesus on the cross--remember?  Also, Jesus tells us if you think it, it's as good as doing it.  So if you are thinking hateful, murderous thoughts about someone, it's as good as carrying out the act.

Finally, something I agree on Molly with.   A good example of this is those who are seething with hatred for President Obama and are praying for God or man or anyone to literally kill him.   Such people are walking in darkness, whether or not they are using the name of Jesus at the very same time.  In fact, to be doing such things while naming the name of Christ makes it even worse.

I've never been seriously persecuted for being a Christian.   However, if I went around trying to poke my beliefs down others throats, they very well might get sick of me in a hurry and if I were to think of that as being persecuted, I'd just be being dishonest with myself.   No one has the right to try to force with a hateful spirit the teachings of Christ on others.   People should be drawn to you because of goodness, not because of your railing against their sin.   It is astonishing how many "Christians" do that and then cry that they are being persecuted.

My two cents......

Anne

AMEN!!

[Gab]

But in the end, they all turned on him--those he helped, the crowds who followed him through dusty streets hoping to see a miracle or hear a word, the high, the low, his friends, even Peter denied knowing him.


66And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:

67And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.

68But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.

--Mark 14

And yet, even as he was dying on the cross at Calvary, a criminal sentenced to death for his crimes had faith in him to the end:

"'Don't you fear God,' he said, 'since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.'

"Then he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.'

"Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'" (Luke 23:40-43)

For as we are told, "the first will be last, and the last will be first."

[sparrow]

You seem to forget about the people who WERE drawn to Jesus, Molly - the throngs who followed him and all the good works he did going about healing the sick everywhere he went.  Just because there were thugs along the way doesn't mean that everyone rejected his goodness.  

And, for that matter, the people who were drawn to Jesus were not exactly the sort one would expect.  Matthew was a tax collector; Paul was a Pharisee.  The ones with the most faith included in their ranks lepers and Roman soldiers.  Meanwhile, the ones receiving the lion's share of Jesus' criticism and rebukes, and the ones depicted as having the most evil hearts, were the most religious members of society.

I have often remarked about the striking similarities that I see between modern-day Christians and the Pharisees in Jesus' time.  The outcasts are now the "in" crowd.  If Jesus were here on Earth today, I do not believe that those he would rebuke are those who most think he would rebuke.

Exactly! I couldn't have said this better myself.

[sparrow]

Speaking of rooster's crowing...
I read this quote not too long ago and it stuck with me:
"The nearer beings are to God, the more humble they are;the further from Him, the prouder." Well, just something to ponder.  :HeartThrob:

[peacemaker]

Speaking of rooster's crowing...

"The nearer beings are to God, the more humble they are; the further from Him, the prouder."

Self preservation leads to denial.

[Beloved Servant]

Hey jab, I just have an issue with the whole idea of provoking others to jealousy.
That is something that needs to be ERADICATED from us, not nurtured.
Despite what verses say, I just can't go along with it.
In my heart, it is wrong.
It is not love.

Let people wonder and be curious about the peace in my heart, and let people wonder how I may be making it through a hard time without getting angry or resentful or full of rage. Let people wonder about my PEACE and be drawn to God's love that is INSIDE of me. But I just cannot nurture the idea of "provoking others to jealousy". Maybe this is something for others. But not for me. Jealousy is ugly.
YEARNING to have peace. YEARNING to have love. I can understand.
Jealousy is ugly resentment.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic, because apparently I feel very strongly.
Unless someone wants to try to explain it in another way that makes sense to my heart and my spirt.

peace.

Sparrow,
We need faith to follow the Lord wherever He leads, even up the mountainside to sacrifice our own child, through faith we please God.

[sparrow]

Hey jab, I just have an issue with the whole idea of provoking others to jealousy.
That is something that needs to be ERADICATED from us, not nurtured.
Despite what verses say, I just can't go along with it.
In my heart, it is wrong.
It is not love.

Let people wonder and be curious about the peace in my heart, and let people wonder how I may be making it through a hard time without getting angry or resentful or full of rage. Let people wonder about my PEACE and be drawn to God's love that is INSIDE of me. But I just cannot nurture the idea of "provoking others to jealousy". Maybe this is something for others. But not for me. Jealousy is ugly.
YEARNING to have peace. YEARNING to have love. I can understand.
Jealousy is ugly resentment.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic, because apparently I feel very strongly.
Unless someone wants to try to explain it in another way that makes sense to my heart and my spirt.

peace.

Sparrow,
We need faith to follow the Lord wherever He leads, even up the mountainside to sacrifice our own child, through faith we please God.

I have faith. And I follow God wherever HE leads.
Does it occur to you that God has never, ever, not once LED me to provoke others to jealousy so this is why I have an issue with it...???

Think about that, beloved.
Blindly follow words in the bible, or follow HIS spirit.

I choose to read the words in the bible, but wait for HIM to move me.
I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a really long time for my Father to lead me to provoke others to murderous jealousy. I don't see where it would ever happen. Not from what I know of my beautiful Father.

Just my  :2c:

:HeartThrob:

peace.

[Beloved Servant]

Abraham probably thought the same thing.
Yet the beautiful Father did it, none the less.
I pray you do not be asked to follow Abraham in his faith.

[jabcat]

I've been thinking for awhile about this aspect of this thread.  The gospel isn't necessarily pretty, or always warm and fuzzy to where people will be drawn by its surface attractiveness.

God does the drawing and choosing.

Jesus' crucifixion wasn't pretty;  "...the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring..."  Is 53:10

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I  Cor. 1:18

 

[sparrow]

Abraham probably thought the same thing.
Yet the beautiful Father did it, none the less.
I pray you do not be asked to follow Abraham in his faith.

Did God actually have Abraham murder his own son? No.
Perhaps his testing Abraham's faith isn't quite what you think.
There are other ways of looking at it.

I may see things in a different way, I suppose.
And that's fine.

But as far as questioning my faith, I answer to Him. Not mankind.

[Cardinal]

I've been thinking for awhile about this aspect of this thread.  The gospel isn't necessarily pretty, or always warm and fuzzy to where people will be drawn by its surface attractiveness.

God does the drawing and choosing.

Jesus' crucifixion wasn't pretty;  "...the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring..."  Is 53:10

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I  Cor. 1:18

:cloud9: For sure it's not pretty.....there is a "honeymoon" stage (which some never come out of) but there also comes a time where we are expected to lay down everything and get serious about the "family business". Blessings....

[sparrow]

I've been thinking for awhile about this aspect of this thread.  The gospel isn't necessarily pretty, or always warm and fuzzy to where people will be drawn by its surface attractiveness.

God does the drawing and choosing.

Jesus' crucifixion wasn't pretty;  "...the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring..."  Is 53:10

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. I  Cor. 1:18

:cloud9: For sure it's not pretty.....there is a "honeymoon" stage (which some never come out of) but there also comes a time where we are expected to lay down everything and get serious about the "family business". Blessings....

Hmmm.  :thumbsup:

[Molly]

I like the way Cardinal puts that, 'the family business.'  lol