Matthew 10:33

[Thoughtmocker]

Hi Everybody,

i am new to all this but i had a friend who quoted this scripture and it stumped me.

33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

Deos anyone have any thoughts on how they would respond to that?

Cheers

jake

[claypot]

I would say amen!

What problem are ya having with these words of God?

cp

[sheila]

 Hey,

  Personally ,I can't read that scripture without taking into account this....

   as you have done unto the least of these my brothers,soyou have done unto me.

   these both are in regard to the throne judgement...

   

  He died for the sins of all...deny one of the least..deny Christ.

  give a cold cup of water of eternal life to the least..as good as giving it to Christ.

  Deny the free gift of eternal life to one of the least,same as doing it to Him

now, there are those who gave Him vinegar and gall...they condemned an innocent man..called Him accursed of God

so, when you do that to any man,the least of these my brethern, you do it to Him...you do that when you tell them
they are guitly before God ;when God has sent His son to redeem them back and is not counting their sin against them

  you crucify a man for the sin in his flesh, you crucify Christ


for He died for the sins of all men

[jabcat]

Just a pretty good link on the TM site, Bible Threatenings Explained;

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

[HartleyDamboiseII]

 this is just a note out of E-Sword Bible program

Mat 10:32-33 
Whosoever therefore shall confess me ... - The same word in the original is translated "confess" and "profess," 1Ti_6:12-13; 2Jo_1:7; Rom_10:10. It means to acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ, and our dependence on him for salvation, and our attachment to him, in every proper manner. This profession may be made in uniting with a church, at the communion, in conversation, and in conduct. The Scriptures mean, by a profession of religion, an exhibition of it in every circumstance of the life and before all people. It is not merely in one act that we must do it, but in every act. We must be ashamed neither of the person, the character, the doctrines, nor the requirements of Christ. If we are; if we deny him in these things before people; if we are unwilling to express our attachment to him in every way possible, then it is right that he should "disown all connection with us," or deny us before God, and he will do it.

[Thoughtmocker]

Well Im trying to reconcile the way it reads....the way it reads is that Jesus will deny others before God and therefore there would be a finality involved in that no?
Like hell.

Cheers

Jake

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Like Hell, NO

Like more hard times in your life until you come around, yes.

I My Opinion only

[jabcat]

A quick glance, looks like there's some swearing/cussing going on here  :laughing7:.

I agree Lee, "like hard times until you come around".

I would approach the verse/question/discussion with questioning the finality.  Just as Paul described us as once being in the world, without God and without hope.

The sheep and the coin were lost...but that wasn't a permanent condition, without any hope of future remedy.  Both were found.

The end of the Lord is merciful, much wood, hay, and stubble will be burned, flesh destroyed so spirits saved, every knee will bow, Jesus will put all enemies under His feet, the leaves of the Tree of Life will be for the healing of the nations, there will be no more pain, God will be All in All.

I try to read all such verses in light of the above.

Blessings, James.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The word deny in Hebrew (for fullness of thought) means to lie (as in not being a witness to the truth), deceive, grow LEAN, dissemble (opposite of join).

Contrast "grow LEAN", with this.......

Isaiah 58:11 KJV
And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and MAKE FAT thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

The Spirit is as the marrow of the bones, the bones are as the letter of scriptures. The blood is made in the bone marrow. His Spirit, therefore, "clothes our bones", ie. the life/revealed hidden manna of the bones comes out, which is why immortality is going to swallow up mortality.

His Word that is His breath is hidden in the bones/scriptures, ie. the hidden manna. This is why not a bone of His was broken; He kept the law perfectly as to it's spiritual intent.

So when we receive some revelation from His breath (His Spirit which IS Truth) and we WALK it out, and stand in it, we are allowing Him to put "flesh" on our bones; HIS flesh, which is as making our bones "fat" (mortality swallowed up of life).

It is forming Christ, and this is the ONLY IMAGE our Father will give His glory to, ie. WITNESS. God the Father, witnessed that Jesus Christ was His Son in heaven/realm of Spirit, by performing the words that He spoke, making them manifest in the natural = witness in earth.

This is why it says whatever you bind on earth (bound because image is NOT of God and His Christ) is bound in heaven (image of God and His Christ). In other words, God the Father will not witness to a lie (wrong image/not witnessing to the Truth), by performing our words. So if we deny Him in earth (wrong image), then He will deny (not witness to a lie) us in heaven/realm of Spirit before His Father.

So all that means is, until our witness of Him in Spirit/heaven and in Truth/earth lines up, He will do no miracles in our "city", because of our unbelief (no witness). Without faith, it is impossible to please God. It takes 2 to witness. Blessings....

[peacemaker]

I would suggest that this is based on judgment, calling attention to a specific point: Objecting to or against something is to deny an allegation, declaring that the contrary is true; challenging it as false (that of another's statement, or their motives). In truth, there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden (motives) that will not be made known. After all, a man's enemies are those of his own household?

"He disavows that which has been attributed to him; disclaiming any association."

Makes one wonder about all the so called, professing teachers? However, if we endure (to hold out against), we will reign with Him; but if we deny Him, He also will deny us, as in withholding something?

Consider: "whosoever gives to (not receiving from) one of these little ones, even a cold cup of water to drink, he shall not lose his reward."

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Kool

[Thoughtmocker]

Thanks for all your posts... i must admit some info has gone right over my head so i will re-read but in general would it be safe to say that it does read like a finality though... I mean if i disown something or someone i am not having anything to do with what or who they are...am i to interpret this scripture that at judgment day thats it...im disowned or could it be interpreted in context to the very people he was talking to for that time?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It's both the people He was talking to at the time, and all people at all times. It falls more in line with, judge yourself so that ye be not judged. What we are to judge is the flesh, which never lines up with His Spirit. If we agree with the judgment of the Spirit, we are not denying Him. If we don't agree with the judgment of His Spirit, then we are denying Him. It's not a one time thing, it's a pick up your cross and follow me daily, kind of thing. Blessings....

[sparrow]

:cloud9: The word deny in Hebrew (for fullness of thought) means to lie (as in not being a witness to the truth), deceive, grow LEAN, dissemble (opposite of join).

Contrast "grow LEAN", with this.......

Isaiah 58:11 KJV
And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and MAKE FAT thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

The Spirit is as the marrow of the bones, the bones are as the letter of scriptures. The blood is made in the bone marrow. His Spirit, therefore, "clothes our bones", ie. the life/revealed hidden manna of the bones comes out, which is why immortality is going to swallow up mortality.

His Word that is His breath is hidden in the bones/scriptures, ie. the hidden manna. This is why not a bone of His was broken; He kept the law perfectly as to it's spiritual intent.

So when we receive some revelation from His breath (His Spirit which IS Truth) and we WALK it out, and stand in it, we are allowing Him to put "flesh" on our bones; HIS flesh, which is as making our bones "fat" (mortality swallowed up of life).

It is forming Christ, and this is the ONLY IMAGE our Father will give His glory to, ie. WITNESS. God the Father, witnessed that Jesus Christ was His Son in heaven/realm of Spirit, by performing the words that He spoke, making them manifest in the natural = witness in earth.

This is why it says whatever you bind on earth (bound because image is NOT of God and His Christ) is bound in heaven (image of God and His Christ). In other words, God the Father will not witness to a lie (wrong image/not witnessing to the Truth), by performing our words. So if we deny Him in earth (wrong image), then He will deny (not witness to a lie) us in heaven/realm of Spirit before His Father.

So all that means is, until our witness of Him in Spirit/heaven and in Truth/earth lines up, He will do no miracles in our "city", because of our unbelief (no witness). Without faith, it is impossible to please God. It takes 2 to witness. Blessings....

Cardinal... Can you put this in the most simplest terms? What is the main gist of your message, (without using symbols) if you were telling this to a person who has never heard of Jesus or the bible, etc.?

[Beloved Servant]

That was amazing Card,
I die daily as a living testimony to my Lord Jesus Christ.

[Thoughtmocker]

Yeah Cardinal i am having a hard time following you.... it just doesn't make sense... you are talking in spiritual terms obviously but i don't get you assumptions and where they are backed scripturally

What we are to judge is the flesh, which never lines up with His Spirit. If we agree with the judgment of the Spirit, we are not denying Him. If we don't agree with the judgment of His Spirit, then we are denying Him. It's not a one time thing, it's a pick up your cross and follow me daily, kind of thing. Blessings....

so this confuses me a bit because it sounds like this last statement has nothing to do with anything and is not pertinent to Matt 10:33 at all.... i am new to this so maybe it's just me...don't mean to step on any toes.

Cheers

Jake

[Beloved Servant]

1 2 3 4...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGPN2Z-bgS0

[reFORMer]

"If the blind lead the blind, they will both fall in the ditch."  What we were wrongly taught to add is, "And so they were for evermore."  But the truth is they are there because they both have something to learn.  One of the first is how to get out of there.  So many beleivers inappropriately universalize or infinitize statements in the Word.  For ever and always, or everybody and everywhere are added when they are not there in the text.

What is not recognized is resurrection is out of death.  We lack understanding of the indestructible and incorruptible.  We fear death as an end in itself, which it never can be.  It is the ground for new life.  We must leave the room we are in to enter into another.  Even the physical law of the conservation of energy teaches us it only changes form.  We are entering into immortal life.  We will accumulate so many experiences of death and transfiguration, at least until we find the rest of faith that He really doesn't forsake us.  What we ultimately are is a special aspect of the Divine nature.  We lay down our lives and take them back again.

Consider the many forms Scripture records Jesus has manifest in.  There are at least eight.  Now, enthroned upon high, the ascended head is present in many members here.  Next on the schedule is for this to become manifest, and in such a way that the entire cosmos begins to be demonstrated as subject to the Glory we've come to radiate.

[Thoughtmocker]

Kool Reformer

[sparrow]

Next on the schedule is for this to become manifest, and in such a way that the world (cosmos) begins to be demonstrated as subject to the Glory we've come to radiate.

This may sound strange.. :laughing7: but that put a very pretty picture in my head.
Like visually, pretty. I know. I'm a weirdo. Sometimes I think of things in pictures instead of words. Anyway, thanks for sharing, reFORMer. :HeartThrob:

[Beloved Servant]

Be the temple of Your Heart!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAlkMfA6uAY

[Cardinal]

Cardinal... Can you put this in the most simplest terms? What is the main gist of your message, (without using symbols) if you were telling this to a person who has never heard of Jesus or the bible, etc.?

:cloud9: I did that as simple as I know how to make it, in the second post. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

That was amazing Card,
I die daily as a living testimony to my Lord Jesus Christ.

:cloud9: Amen, and yes we do. And every time we agree to the killing of our flesh via the letter, the "boundary stone" that it is, gets rolled away in preparation of a resurrection into new life (revelation of the Spirit) in a new "land" (glorified body). Blessings.....

[sparrow]

Cardinal,
Ok, so the second post was a summary of the first post? I thought perhaps you were adding on to what you were saying in the first post. Ok, the second post is more clear.

So all that means is, until our witness of Him in Spirit/heaven and in Truth/earth lines up, He will do no miracles in our "city", because of our unbelief (no witness). Without faith, it is impossible to please God. It takes 2 to witness. Blessings....

What do you mean by this? What type of miracles are you talking about? Are you talking miracles like healing sickness, etc? IF so, are you saying those who are not healed don't have enough faith?  and is your "city" what? Do you mean who you are? And why do you say "truth/earth" What does that mean?
thanks.

[Molly]

That was amazing Card,
I die daily as a living testimony to my Lord Jesus Christ.

:cloud9: Amen, and yes we do. And every time we agree to the killing of our flesh via the letter, the "boundary stone" that it is, gets rolled away in preparation of a resurrection into new life (revelation of the Spirit) in a new "land" (glorified body). Blessings.....

It is really killing the desires of the flesh, because they do not align with his Spirit.  He has always provided a fleshy sacrifice for us from the time of Abel so that we might live in the flesh.

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


Children of wrath means that we were performing acts of wrath through the flesh?  So the flesh has a strong tendency to be aligned with another spirit?  We need to neutralize our vessel so that it can carry the Spirit of God?

Faith and flesh do not mix.  They are the antithesis of each other.  The new land is the faith of Jesus Christ within our [sanctified] flesh bodies, the kingdom of God.


1 The Lord said to Abram, "Leave your country, your relatives, and your father's family, and go to the land I will show you.


--Gen 12

And, what he has sanctified [inner court], he will glorify [Holy of Holies].