Greetings from South Africa!

[peteresther]

Hi! I am fascinated by this doctrine of universalism!

I have a few questions, and hope they can be answered.

What does Tentmaker believe happens to a person when they die? Does Tentmaker believe in soul sleep?

Thank you.

Kind regards,
peteresther

[jabcat]

Hello, and welcome.

You'll find varying beliefs on both.

However, bottom line if I may, would be that whether there is afterlife "punishment" or not, if so, it is corrective and temporary in nature, with no "eternal hell"/eternal torment.  The Lake of Fire (most believe spiritual/figurative - "our God's a consuming fire") is cleansing and leads to redemption and faith in Jesus.

As far as soul sleep, again, though different views, a bottom line is that we will be resurrected to be in God's presence and participate in His mercies and restoration of everything.

Enjoy your time here.  James.

[peteresther]

Thank you so much for that quick reply, jabcat!

Now for my next question: "Do universalists attend church?" Should I post this question in another section? Kindly have some patience with me as I learn how to navigate and use this site! :mblush:

Esther:)

[jabcat]

You're welcome.  Again, a wide variety  :winkgrin:.  Many types of chocolates in the same box!

Approximations here:  a few still in organized religion.  Some organize their own, such as the Universalist Association.  There are a few scattered congregations that believe in universal reconciliation and teach it.  Some still attend mainstream with families, or as God leads, but don't agree with much or even most of what's being taught - still fellowshipping and holding to what's common, i.e., Jesus is the Son of God and the Savior.

I'd say though that most have felt called out and have left attending local congregations.  I personally think it would be nice if folks could get together and fellowship, but it seems to me that most people are happy to attend their mainstream churches a time or two a week and then get on with their lives.

Bottom line, I think most here understand that WE are the church, the ecclesia, the called out ones.  That we live the church every day, as we live our lives walking with the Savior, interacting with others, sharing His love and Good News - Jesus, savior of the world (John 4:42).

[WhiteWings]

Hi and  :welcome: peteresther.

Or should I say welcome sister Esther and welcome brother Peter ?  :winkgrin:

Now for my next question: "Do universalists attend church?"

Some do and some don't.
Many went to church very often before seeing UR. But after UR was revealed to them many got sick from hearing the ET message and stopped attending to church.
BTW the Biblical church isn't a big building. It's a meeting of two or more people with the intention of worshipping God and/learning more about Him. (I hope I said that right)

/EDIT
I see Bugs is to fast again.....  :laughing7: :laughing7:

[jabcat]

Nope, you did good, WW!   :bigGrin:    Good addition.  :thumbsup:

[peteresther]

Thank you again jabcat and also WhiteWings!

So nice to find out these things...I have been reading this website all afternoon, and did not find these questions in the FAQ.

I so want to just dive into this deep end, to believe that all will be eventually saved! It seems to make sense, as scripture says that God knows our frame, that we are but dust...It has always worried me that some nice people, who are not Christians will be sent to hell forever...I have left it up to the judge of the universe, and not leant on my own understanding.

Must say though, that I am cautious...I do not wish to be led astray by strange doctrines, and will have to "sleep on it" and mull it over and read and learn more...but sheeew am I tempted! (No offense!)

So far I can feel one side effect of leaning towards UR, and that is that I may be in danger of losing my passion to see people saved in the here and now! I am a regular poster on an atheist forum, and they literally cause me sleepless nights, as I so don't want them to be eternally damned! Now I think, okay, so they will suffer a bit, but eventually it will be all good! Makes me not so "eager" for lack of a better word.

Anyhow, I truly appreciate the welcome, and hope not to be a burden with my questionings!

ALL Blessings! :bigGrin:

Esther:) (Peter is my husband, an artist who does not post, but I do share posts with him while he paints! I like our names together.)   

[jabcat]

No burden.  Ask God to let you know what's truth.  We learn from each other, but God and His Word, and His Spirit teaching and leading us is to be our ultimate authority.  He will let you know.

God's blessing, James.

[jabcat]

The following are good posts on the topic of your last post, IMO.  I personally see it much the same way as the poster:  Also look for J. Preston Eby's writings on the TM main page, specifically "Why Should We Preach"?

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=2430.msg24831#msg24831
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=2430.msg24878#msg24878

James.

[WhiteWings]

So nice to find out these things...I have been reading this website all afternoon, and did not find these questions in the FAQ.

In case you don't know this forum is just a small part of the site.
www.tentmaker.org  => many articles there. Have a look at the scholars corner. My favourite is "Hansons four works."
Or on www.youtube.com search for tentmaker777
An other recommended site is: http://bible-truths.com/  => Read teh Lake of Fire series halfway down the page!

I so want to just dive into this deep end, to believe that all will be eventually saved! It seems to make sense, as scripture says that God knows our frame, that we are but dust...It has always worried me that some nice people, who are not Christians will be sent to hell forever...I have left it up to the judge of the universe, and not leant on my own understanding.

Must say though, that I am cautious...I do not wish to be led astray by strange doctrines, and will have to "sleep on it" and mull it over and read and learn more...but sheeew am I tempted! (No offense!)

None here will see that as a offense. It's even a commandment of God Himself....
2 Timothy 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
That means double or even triple check what WW writes  :laughing7:
But if you read teh articles I mentioned above you will see UR has a solid foundation. You don't have to agree with it but you can no longer claim, as many do, that UR is based on 2 verses taken out of context.

So far I can feel one side effect of leaning towards UR,

Your brain just hasn't catched up with your  :HeartThrob: yet.... :bigGrin:

and that is that I may be in danger of losing my passion to see people saved in the here and now! I am a regular poster on an atheist forum, and they literally cause me sleepless nights, as I so don't want them to be eternally damned! Now I think, okay, so they will suffer a bit, but eventually it will be all good! Makes me not so "eager" for lack of a better word.

There is a current thread on this forum about what the Bible teaches about spreading the Gospel.
Watch out for those atheists! Double or even triple check all they write!!!

Anyhow, I truly appreciate the welcome, and hope not to be a burden with my questionings!

Without questions this forum would be...erm... empty.
Fill 'em up!  :beerburp:

Esther:) (Peter is my husband, an artist who does not post, but I do share posts with him while he paints! I like our names together.) 

A painting says more than a thousand words....

[WhiteWings]

I think I'm gonna check my room for hidden webcams because Mr. Bugs is a mindreader or  a spy.
:laughing7:

[sparrow]

Welcome Esther!  :icon_flower:

I (99%) don't believe in soul sleep. I will leave that 1% open for God to come in and give some revelations that I didn't have before, though.

I don't attend a building church, but I tend to feel/believe that I am "in church" 24/7...if that makes sense.

Glad to have you here.

And I like what you said here:

Must say though, that I am cautious...I do not wish to be led astray by strange doctrines, and will have to "sleep on it" and mull it over and read and learn more...but sheeew am I tempted! (No offense!)

I think most folks here are nodding their heads at that one! I think this is the only way to be when seeking out a matter. Otherwise, whatever you believe is kind of built on sand, it's not solid. :thumbsup:

So far I can feel one side effect of leaning towards UR, and that is that I may be in danger of losing my passion to see people saved in the here and now!

Y'know what... I don't think you'll lose your passion...I think you'll gain MORE passion,  you'll just have a lot more peace about it. 

Again, Welcome!!  :happy3:

[Beloved Servant]

Dear Peter and Esther,
The here and now is finally come.
These are the days the prophets spoke of during their lives.
Ears all over the world are being opened to the abundant beauty of Christ Jesus.
Welcome to the brethren.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Nothing to add, except hello! I'm sure you'll be blessed here. Welcome to the Tent......... :welcome: :newb: :Peace:

[Gab]

So far I can feel one side effect of leaning towards UR, and that is that I may be in danger of losing my passion to see people saved in the here and now! I am a regular poster on an atheist forum, and they literally cause me sleepless nights, as I so don't want them to be eternally damned! Now I think, okay, so they will suffer a bit, but eventually it will be all good! Makes me not so "eager" for lack of a better word.

Well, I don't think that one ought to lose one's passion once one comes to believe in UR - rather, I think that the passion ought to just change its focus: instead of having passion to get people converted as soon as possible, you can have passion to love each and every person no matter what.

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Nothing to add,

Sort post!

except hello!

Owww, there is more :winkgrin:

I'm sure you'll be blessed here.

As everywhere. :HeartThrob:

Welcome to the Tent......... :welcome: :newb: :Peace:

Psss, you for got to mention the part about bringing drinks..... :sigh:

[peacemaker]

(http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/686/686484gmktongvp4.jpg)
WELCOME ON BOARD!

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Hi,

It is very very simple

God wills all men to be saved.

"This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"
(1 Tim. 2:3-4).

Nothing can thwart Gods will.

Daniel 4:35
"And all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but He does according to His will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth; and no one can ward off His hand or say to Him, 'What hast Thou done?'"

Romans 9:15-16
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

[peteresther]

Welcome Esther!  :icon_flower:

Thank you sparrow,

I (99%) don't believe in soul sleep. I will leave that 1% open for God to come in and give some revelations that I didn't have before, though.

Good to hear. Do you or anyone else by any chance understand what Tentmaker's point is about the non-existence of hell? I understand the point that it will not be an eternal hell, but surely there is a hell? (People just ultimately get let out of it?)

I don't attend a building church, but I tend to feel/believe that I am "in church" 24/7...if that makes sense.

I also do not attend church. I feel so quilty because I think it is a good thing to attend, and I do not expect the churches to be perfect, but I feel as if I am just "playing church" when I attend...

Glad to have you here.

Thank you, this is kind of you!

I think this is the only way to be when seeking out a matter. Otherwise, whatever you believe is kind of built on sand, it's not solid.

Yes, I have not even set a time limit for myself! I am going to trust Jesus for this, and do my part and study.

Y'know what... I don't think you'll lose your passion...I think you'll gain MORE passion,  you'll just have a lot more peace about it. 

Yes, I forsee this advantage too!

Kind regards, Esther:)

[WhiteWings]

Do you or anyone else by any chance understand what Tentmaker's point is about the non-existence of hell? I understand the point that it will not be an eternal hell, but surely there is a hell? (People just ultimately get let out of it?)

Views on that vary a bit.
But all agree there is no real fire. No torture. Not endless. Not punishment but teaching/correcting.



Acts 7:30  And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
1 Chronicles 21:26  And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings, and called upon the LORD; and he answered him from heaven by fire upon the altar of burnt offering.
1 Corinthians 3:13  .... for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Deuteronomy 4:24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Ezekiel 1:27  And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, ....  saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about ....
Genesis 15:17  ....  behold a smoking furnace (God), and a burning lamp (God) that passed between those pieces (cut up sacrificial animals).
Hebrews 1:7  And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hebrews 12:29   For our God is a consuming fire
Isaiah 4:4  .... and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Isaiah 4:5  ....  a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.
James 3:5  Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
Judges 6:21  Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight.
Luke 3:16  ....  he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Þ Baptism is a positive act.
Malachi 3:2  But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Malachi 3:3  And he shall sit as a refiner (uses fire) and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi (priests), and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mark 9:49-50  or every one shall be salted with fire .... Salt is good ....
Matthew 3:11  .... whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
2 Kings 6:17  And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
1 Peter 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried (=tested) with fire ....
1 Peter 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
Psalm 18:8  There went up a smoke out of his (God) nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
Psalm 66:10-12  .... thou hast tried us, as silver is tried (=tested) .... we went through fire and through water: but thou broughtest us out into a wealthy place.
Psalm 104:4  Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Romans 12:20  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him (=love); if he thirst, give him drink (=love): for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire (=love) on his head.
Tormented
928 basani,zw basanizo {bas-an-id'-zo}
Meaning: 
to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the color of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal

[Taffy]

A Belated Welcome Peter :icon_flower: