Hope or prefer if........

[claypot]

Hi again Gang,

Do you hope God is and what you believe/know about Him is true or do you (secretly) kind of hope that we just perish into nothingness?

Would perishing into nothingness really make life devoid of meaning? I don't think so.

cp

[WhiteWings]

Life can/should be fun.
Eternal life of perish into nothingness doesn't make much difference to me.
Surely eternal bliss would be nice to experience. But if I don't exist anymore I simply don't know I'm missing out that eternal bliss.

[sven]

honestly, sometimes I've wished we actually had the choice between everlasting life and everlasting death (I mean literal, not "theological" death).

however, when you spend time with people you really, really like, isn't the time you've had not always to short?

At the moment I look forward to the world to come and am happy to hopefully see the people again I liked in this world.

[WhiteWings]

however, when you spend time with people you really, really like, isn't the time you've had not always to short?

Yes, but that's of no importance. When you no longer exist you no longer know how much time you are missing.

[Molly]

however, when you spend time with people you really, really like, isn't the time you've had not always to short?

Yes, but that's of no importance. When you no longer exist you no longer know how much time you are missing.

You have something no other being on this planet can boast--a consciousness that can both perceive itself living forever and contemplate its own death.

That's not by accident.

[ducktapehero]

Do you hope God is and what you believe/know about Him is true or do you (secretly) kind of hope that we just perish into nothingness?

Never, although being burned up for an eternity wouldn't be my 1st choice I'd gladly rather live for an eternity in a so-so existence if it meant I could be with the ones I love.

I had cancer 2 years ago. Kidney cancer, I was only 35 years old. I wasn't scared of dying, honestly I wasn't. However, being away from the ones I loves scared the hell out of me. This was before I believed in UR. I was terrified that my son would "choose wrong" and spend eternity away from me. That was hell.

[Tim B]

Hi again Gang,

Do you hope God is and what you believe/know about Him is true or do you (secretly) kind of hope that we just perish into nothingness?

Would perishing into nothingness really make life devoid of meaning? I don't think so.

cp

Hmm, it's weird. If I could choose to live forever or not, right now, I don't think I would. I say this, I think, because it's very hard for me to be at complete rest. Sure, sleep works for a while (as long as you don't dream, or your dreams are pleasant). But then you wake up. If I could be at absolute rest, then and peace, and be surrounded by those I love, and a God of absolute lovingkindness, then I think I could live forever. At the same time, I'd rather not die and go into nothingness, mostly because the idea of absolute meaninglessness in life fills me with sadness and/or emptiness. (I mean, I wouldn't know that if I was dead, if I really died into nothingness, but right now I don't like the idea.)

You know, in thinking about this, I realized what I'm scared about most: God not loving me, or not forgiving me! Because, I realize, if I lived forever, in this so-so life, at least I wouldn't have to "face" God, or about being annihilated (not that I believe in eternal torment, but sometimes I worry God will annihilate people).

This is interesting (for me anyway).

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi again Gang,

Do you hope God is and what you believe/know about Him is true or do you (secretly) kind of hope that we just perish into nothingness?

Would perishing into nothingness really make life devoid of meaning? I don't think so.

cp

Fact remains for me that I cannot prove a thing that I believe when it comes to the spiritual realm.  I can relate many things to make an inference to it's possibility.   But prove it?  Just is not happening.   I have heard people tell stories and am not blatently doubting things, but I will not believe something just because someone tells a story. I expect the same from others, but I don't tell stories to try to convince others I'm right, it is simply my perspective.

We know so little about the natural world that I am convinced that things happen that are unexplained because of our lack of knowledge.  Although I do not have an example to give, I believe that 100 years ago Christians probably talked about miraculous things that today could not be attributed to a "miracle". 

But I believe this problem to be a religious one.   I believe all of life is a miracle and being able to explain how it works is irrelevant to that fact.   But we have to be careful about attributing something to a miracle to boost an emotional responce just because we cannot explain it with our current knowledge.

With that said,  I think life is worth living because it is.  I do not need a belief to enjoy my wife, my sons, to do things to help people, the belief is because I believe.

In otherwords my belief isn't what gives my life meaning it is a simple matter that I do not know how to NOT believe a God exists and I study that aspect of my life.

I HOPE that there is something great on the otherside,  but if not,  so what?   No one can prove that we can ultimatly do anything about it.   Most assertions are based on better safe than sorry.  I suppose that's not all bad.

[peacemaker]

Death in the worst-case scenario:

"A sleep without dreams; no thought or consciousness."

peacemaker

[Gab]

Hmm, it's weird. If I could choose to live forever or not, right now, I don't think I would. I say this, I think, because it's very hard for me to be at complete rest. Sure, sleep works for a while (as long as you don't dream, or your dreams are pleasant). But then you wake up. If I could be at absolute rest, then and peace, and be surrounded by those I love, and a God of absolute lovingkindness, then I think I could live forever. At the same time, I'd rather not die and go into nothingness, mostly because the idea of absolute meaninglessness in life fills me with sadness and/or emptiness. (I mean, I wouldn't know that if I was dead, if I really died into nothingness, but right now I don't like the idea.)

You know, in thinking about this, I realized what I'm scared about most: God not loving me, or not forgiving me! Because, I realize, if I lived forever, in this so-so life, at least I wouldn't have to "face" God, or about being annihilated (not that I believe in eternal torment, but sometimes I worry God will annihilate people).

This is interesting (for me anyway).

It's interesting for me too. :wink2:

To be honest, I can wholly sympathize with the thoughts you mention.  I've always wondered how people do it who seem so absolutely unwaveringly 100% convinced of the truly Good News, because I've always found that it just doesn't work for me.  When I speak, it is indeed what I believe and what I hope, but it can never really get itself over the hill and become what I know.  I suppose I'm comforted at least a little by the knowledge that figures such as Mother Teresa went through experiences a hundred times worse, but not completely.  I would say I envy those people, but then I think better of it since is not mine to complain about that which God has and has not given me.  But still, it's painful at times.

A bit of background: I'm an amateur fiction writer, and as such, I'll often for the purposes of inspiration and for writing imagine myself in a different situation and then play it out in my mind.  One recurring scene, however, is that of me before God, and God asking me why I ought to be allowed into heaven.  And, you know, my answer is always the same: "I shouldn't."  I have no real good reason why I ought to be: I am certainly not righteous (no one is), and we are told in no uncertain terms that we are not saved through works.  The only thing I have is the hope that it is not in God's intention that I am to be given what I deserve.  My only hope is that mercy truly does triumph over judgment, as we are told.

...Well, I suppose we'll all find out soon enough.  But hopefully not too soon.  I've got books I'd like to write...  :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

Hmm, it's weird. If I could choose to live forever or not, right now, I don't think I would. I say this, I think, because it's very hard for me to be at complete rest.

4 : peace of mind or spirit

I think the defenition of rest is very important here.
I think it's merely the absense of evil/negative acts/illness/etc.
I wouldn't be suprised that rest was a very busy activity.

[Tony N]

God has to exist because only God could raise someone from the dead and give them back all their memories which tells me everything we see, think and do is recorded by God. Weird, huh?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Especially since the mind is part of the soul of man.........Blessings....

[Tony N]

:cloud9: Especially since the mind is part of the soul of man.........Blessings....

Is it really? Did you read that in the Bible? No, you didn't.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Didn't I? The soul is comprised of the mind, will, emotions, and desires. It's what makes us, us, and it's the "wife" of the Spirit. Blessings....

neh'-fesh        Noun Feminine
Definition

   1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
         1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
         2. living being
         3. living being (with life in the blood)
         4. the man himself, self, person or individual
         5. seat of the appetites
         6. seat of emotions and passions
         7. activity of mind
               1. dubious
         8. activity of the will
               1. dubious
         9. activity of the character
               1. dubious

[Tony N]

:cloud9: Didn't I? The soul is comprised of the mind, will, emotions, and desires. It's what makes us, us, and it's the "wife" of the Spirit. Blessings....

No, you didn't read that in the bible that the mind is part of the soul.

I think what you are getting at is this: Since I said there must be a God since only God can raise a person from the dead and then give him back all his thoughts and memories it was then that you said that is because the mind is part of the soul. In other words, it seems to me you were saying that the soul was somehow the repository of all our memories and that God somehow saves the soul in some form and when He resurrects a dead person He gives that soul back to that person with all the memories intact. This is not in the bible.

[claypot]

God has to exist ......

I think I agree with you Tony but our definitions of God may be different. I define God as life so God does exist. I think life is an intimate essence with an intelligence that is infinite. Life is also all that is around us.

Death and evil are much the same to me and both have no part of God yet they exist as an antithesis to Life/God.

Hope this doesn't sound new agish!

cp

[Tony N]

God has to exist ......

I think I agree with you Tony but our definitions of God may be different. I define God as life so God does exist. I think life is an intimate essence with an intelligence that is infinite. Life is also all that is around us.

Death and evil are much the same to me and both have no part of God yet they exist as an antithesis to Life/God.

Hope this doesn't sound new agish!

cp

Evil has no part of God? Maybe I misunderstand what you are getting at.

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Yet He does all things for good.

[rosered]

A bit of background: I'm an amateur fiction writer, and as such, I'll often for the purposes of inspiration and for writing imagine myself in a different situation and then play it out in my mind.  One recurring scene, however, is that of me before God, and God asking me why I ought to be allowed into heaven.  And, you know, my answer is always the same: "I shouldn't."  I have no real good reason why I ought to be: I am certainly not righteous (no one is), and we are told in no uncertain terms that we are not saved through works.  The only thing I have is the hope that it is not in God's intention that I am to be given what I deserve.  My only hope is that mercy truly does triumph over judgment, as we are told.

  Cool  fiction writer huh !  :thumbsup:

  I was  reading that  faith is what gets us  where we need to be  :icon_flower: and that faith is in Christ Jesus  and what He has done for us  that  we enter  into that Holy City  :HeartThrob:
hope faith and charity/ LOve  :HeartThrob:


1Cr 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.  

G3306 - menō 1) to remain, abide

a) in reference to place

1) to sojourn, tarry

2) not to departa) to continue to be present

b) to be held, kept, continually
b) in reference to time

1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure

a) of persons, to survive, live

c) in reference to state or condition

1) to remain as one, not to become another or different

2) to wait for, await one

 seems these  3 things  are already what keeps us in the heavens / realm of Life in Christ  :thumbsup:

 I dont have a clue  what is to come , I know my sister  died literally  for  a few moments
 and told me she was looking down at her old flesh body  , yet she was very much alive and  had something  like electricty running though her  that was so peacful and connected to  something so much more  grander than she ever knew before  ,  her thoughts  were her communication   with the Lord and she said it was the most profound and glorious experience of her life, ever  and she is now ,no longer afraid to  die a literal death ..   you got to realize how ''pumped ''I got to just her her talk about this experience to me  :HeartThrob:
wow I do believe there is more to life than this state of being  mortal
and when I was young I did feel dark and ignorant and empty , I looked to the world for pleasure  and some type of meaning , but it was  the vanity of youth  the Word speaks of , I do know that now , Thank God ..

 we trust the Lord  and thats a good thing  :thumbsup:

[claypot]

God has to exist ......

I think I agree with you Tony but our definitions of God may be different. I define God as life so God does exist. I think life is an intimate essence with an intelligence that is infinite. Life is also all that is around us.

Death and evil are much the same to me and both have no part of God yet they exist as an antithesis to Life/God.

Hope this doesn't sound new agish!

cp

Evil has no part of God? Maybe I misunderstand what you are getting at.

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Yet He does all things for good.

I know, I hear ya Tony. I hear the words of Isaiah but I also hear the words of John

And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.  1jn1.5

I think by being Life and manifesting 'Himself' in physical ways, evil appears like you appearing out of doors on a sunny day, your shadow appears. It is inevitable.

In God is no darkness at all. Tony, do you see evil as darkness?

cp

[Tim B]

Hmm, it's weird. If I could choose to live forever or not, right now, I don't think I would. I say this, I think, because it's very hard for me to be at complete rest. Sure, sleep works for a while (as long as you don't dream, or your dreams are pleasant). But then you wake up. If I could be at absolute rest, then and peace, and be surrounded by those I love, and a God of absolute lovingkindness, then I think I could live forever. At the same time, I'd rather not die and go into nothingness, mostly because the idea of absolute meaninglessness in life fills me with sadness and/or emptiness. (I mean, I wouldn't know that if I was dead, if I really died into nothingness, but right now I don't like the idea.)

You know, in thinking about this, I realized what I'm scared about most: God not loving me, or not forgiving me! Because, I realize, if I lived forever, in this so-so life, at least I wouldn't have to "face" God, or about being annihilated (not that I believe in eternal torment, but sometimes I worry God will annihilate people).

This is interesting (for me anyway).

It's interesting for me too. :wink2:

To be honest, I can wholly sympathize with the thoughts you mention.  I've always wondered how people do it who seem so absolutely unwaveringly 100% convinced of the truly Good News, because I've always found that it just doesn't work for me.  When I speak, it is indeed what I believe and what I hope, but it can never really get itself over the hill and become what I know.  I suppose I'm comforted at least a little by the knowledge that figures such as Mother Teresa went through experiences a hundred times worse, but not completely.  I would say I envy those people, but then I think better of it since is not mine to complain about that which God has and has not given me.  But still, it's painful at times.

A bit of background: I'm an amateur fiction writer, and as such, I'll often for the purposes of inspiration and for writing imagine myself in a different situation and then play it out in my mind.  One recurring scene, however, is that of me before God, and God asking me why I ought to be allowed into heaven.  And, you know, my answer is always the same: "I shouldn't."  I have no real good reason why I ought to be: I am certainly not righteous (no one is), and we are told in no uncertain terms that we are not saved through works.  The only thing I have is the hope that it is not in God's intention that I am to be given what I deserve.  My only hope is that mercy truly does triumph over judgment, as we are told.

...Well, I suppose we'll all find out soon enough.  But hopefully not too soon.  I've got books I'd like to write...  :laughing7:

Oh, you're a fiction writer? That's awesome! I love writing! I tend to write on real life subjects, but I could see myself writing some sort of fiction in the future.  :bigGrin:

And yeah, this is kind of how I'm viewing God right now, although I'm hoping he'll lead me into a deeper understand of his love: either God will accept me through his Love, or if he doesn't, he'll annihilate me. But the thing is, if he annihilates me, I won't notice the the difference anyway! At least it's not eternal torment!

[Tony N]

God has to exist ......

I think I agree with you Tony but our definitions of God may be different. I define God as life so God does exist. I think life is an intimate essence with an intelligence that is infinite. Life is also all that is around us.

Death and evil are much the same to me and both have no part of God yet they exist as an antithesis to Life/God.

Hope this doesn't sound new agish!

cp

Evil has no part of God? Maybe I misunderstand what you are getting at.

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Yet He does all things for good.

I know, I hear ya Tony. I hear the words of Isaiah but I also hear the words of John

And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.  1jn1.5

I think by being Life and manifesting 'Himself' in physical ways, evil appears like you appearing out of doors on a sunny day, your shadow appears. It is inevitable.

In God is no darkness at all. Tony, do you see evil as darkness?

cp

God creates darkness but in Him is no darkness.
God creates evil but in Him is no evil.

All darkness and evil subserves His greater purpose which is "working all together for good."

[claypot]

God has to exist ......

I think I agree with you Tony but our definitions of God may be different. I define God as life so God does exist. I think life is an intimate essence with an intelligence that is infinite. Life is also all that is around us.

Death and evil are much the same to me and both have no part of God yet they exist as an antithesis to Life/God.

Hope this doesn't sound new agish!

cp

Evil has no part of God? Maybe I misunderstand what you are getting at.

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Yet He does all things for good.

I know, I hear ya Tony. I hear the words of Isaiah but I also hear the words of John

And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.  1jn1.5

I think by being Life and manifesting 'Himself' in physical ways, evil appears like you appearing out of doors on a sunny day, your shadow appears. It is inevitable.

In God is no darkness at all. Tony, do you see evil as darkness?

cp

God creates darkness but in Him is no darkness.
God creates evil but in Him is no evil.

All darkness and evil subserves His greater purpose which is "working all together for good."

Let me play devils advocate here a bit, for a good purpose.

Being God created evil and darkness, doesn't that mean it came out from Him? Didn't the thought of evil and darkness have to come from 'within' God in order for Him to create it?

I see the words that say God created evil as meaning that when God created creation as we know it, evil came to be just from the creation itself. So, God is taking responsibility for the evil while there still is no darkness or evil in Him.

These kinds of discussions fascinate me yet they are hard.

cp

[sparrow]

God has to exist ......

I think I agree with you Tony but our definitions of God may be different. I define God as life so God does exist. I think life is an intimate essence with an intelligence that is infinite. Life is also all that is around us.

Death and evil are much the same to me and both have no part of God yet they exist as an antithesis to Life/God.

Hope this doesn't sound new agish!

cp

Evil has no part of God? Maybe I misunderstand what you are getting at.

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Yet He does all things for good.

I know, I hear ya Tony. I hear the words of Isaiah but I also hear the words of John

And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.  1jn1.5

I think by being Life and manifesting 'Himself' in physical ways, evil appears like you appearing out of doors on a sunny day, your shadow appears. It is inevitable.

In God is no darkness at all. Tony, do you see evil as darkness?

cp

God creates darkness but in Him is no darkness.
God creates evil but in Him is no evil.

All darkness and evil subserves His greater purpose which is "working all together for good."

Let me play devils advocate here a bit, for a good purpose.

Being God created evil and darkness, doesn't that mean it came out from Him? Didn't the thought of evil and darkness have to come from 'within' God in order for Him to create it?

I see the words that say God created evil as meaning that when God created creation as we know it, evil came to be just from the creation itself. So, God is taking responsibility for the evil while there still is no darkness or evil in Him. These kinds of discussions fascinate me yet they are hard.

cp

I definitely agree with the bold.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

If life wasnt forever i just dont see the point.  (God has set eternity into the hearts of man).
Whats the point in ever learning...learning from mistakes, learning how to love, to succeed, to correct yourself, to play piano lol, if you just die and forget it all!  What a waste of time!  But, then again, when i didnt believe i used to see life like this "This life may be all we have, but ive got what...60, 70 years maybe more if im lucky, all that time to be with all the nice people in my life and its all for free!" So in a way, i guess you can see the good in anything, but living forever in perfect peace with God and all our friends...Having unlimited time to talk to everyone who ever existed!  No more worrying about ill health, death etc etc.