Bible contradictions, help anyone?

[jesushandsarekindhands]

If your faith isnt strong - dont read this, im not here to try to destroy anyones faith, just to make some sense of what im reading.

Everytime i pick up the Bible i just run into more confusion and seemingly (to me, very evident) contradictions.

Can anyone help me with these ones? 

I started reading the bible tonight, (Books of Peter and John).

1 PETER 4 17  For it is time for judgement to begin with the family of God and if it begins with us, what will teh outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?

Im struggling to see any univeral salvation here, all im reading from this is that even the family of God are going to have a pretty harsh time in judgement.

The part under the Bible then tells me to check out the part in proverbs where this came from which doesnt even say this!  It says
"If the righeous recieve their due on earth how much more the ungoldy and the sinner!"  (PROVERBS 11:31).


Then i read 2 Peter about the destruction of ungodly men, blackest darkness being reserved for them etc etc.

Finally I read John who says one minute that if we claim to be without sin we LIE.  (1 John 8), then later on he contradicts himself by saying this "We know that anyone born of God does not conintue to sin" (5 :18).

John then says that anyone who doesnt acknowledge that Jesus has come in the flesh is not from God and is an 'antichrist' but then goes onto say that ANYONE who LOVES 'knows' God because God is love.

Sometimes i just feel like im wasting my time, i really do!  And really getting fed up of the confusion it's causing me now.  I wanted to have a hope for all mankind but all im seeing is a contradiction here there and everywhere.

If God had just wrote a simple page saying what was right and what was wrong fair enough, but theres almost 900 pages in my bible and on everypage i see some kind of error or contradiction.  Im trying here, but really, im begining to think this might not be worth all the confusion.  I dont mean to sound nasty or anything, i just dont want to spend my days on somthing that makes me feel..confused and utterly miserable.

Is the original tounge version of the bible any clearer?  Because the NIV and the King James just seems a contradiction from start to finish.

"If the trumpet give an uncertain sound," Paul wrote in I Corinthians 14:8, "who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air." Exactly! For almost two millennia, the bible has been producing a most "uncertain sound....  And i just wonder if im wasting my time.

If I only have one life id rather make the most of it and not spend it trying to make sense of somthing that to me really makes no sense.  All i wanted was hope for mankind and to love people more...I could do that without the bible.  At the very least i wouldnt be confused and bringing others into this very very confusing way of life.  I could go out, find a boyfriend at at least salvage some happiness from my life, but as things are right now, all im seeing is confusion, i really really am.  The only reason i came back to the bible was because SOMEONE answered my prayers at some important points in my life.  Could it really have been the same God who answered them for me who is also causing all this confusion?  I really am beginging to wonder now.

And it isnt like this is the first time ive found contradictions.  I could write a very very thick book full of them.  Naturally some of you may think im offending the faith or God, but its not deliberate, so sorry if it seems that way in advance.

This is how i feel right now, i hope i wont be disliked for this, im being honest with everyone here.  I would like to hear some answers, and if they are reasonable ill stay, but if not...I dont see the point in being here anymore, because the last thing id want to do is rob anyone of their faith which would include their whole way of life and happiness.

[CHB]

Hi Hands,

Here is how (1Peter 4:17)  is in the Concordant version. You might want to compare verses with the Concordant, here is the address.
http://concordant.org/version/CLNT_Intro.htm

If you notice in verse 14 it starts by bringing up about suffering for Christ. I believe this is the main subject Peter is referring to.

As for the other verses, well all are right if you really think about it.  Take for instance (1John 1:8) It is true that we are all sinners and no one is without sin, let's face it our flesh is sin. On the other hand if we have Christ dwelling in us, in the Father's eyes we are no more sinners, because when he looks at me he only sees Christ and what he did not what I have or have not done.


14 If you are being reproached in the name of Christ, happy are you, for the spirit of glory and power, and that of God, has come to rest on you.
15 For let not any of you be suffering as a murderer, or a thief, or an evildoer, or as an interferer in other's affairs;
16 yet if as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, yet let him be glorifying God in this name,
17 seeing that it is the era for the judgment to begin from the house of God. Now if first from us, what is the consummation of those who are stubborn as to God's evangel?
18 And, "If the just one is hardly being saved, where will the irreverent and the sinner appear?"
19 So that, let those also who are suffering according to the will of God commit their souls to a faithful Creator in the doing of good.

CHB

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Thank you CHB.

Its so confusing, its a real struggle for me.

The John part makes more sense now.

But the Peter part sounds much the same in the Concordant.

And this part "18 And, "If the just one is hardly being saved, where will the irreverent and the sinner appear?"  makes it sound like its almost impossible for anyone to get saved.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

I dont know if this is right, but im going to put this out there anyway.


Would someone talk to me sometime on webcam with mic, i know its a big ask but...ive so many doubts and stuff, just to talk to someone about it all would be a help.

I really want to believe the bible and universal salvation, why?
Because i truly TRULY believe, (In fact i KNOW) that God has done things in my life before, miraculous things that its immpossible for them to have been chance.  I want to find him.  Or maybe thats it?  Maybe ive already found him WITHOUT a bible?  I really dont know.  It makes no sense anymore.

The other reason is that i want all people to oneday be ok.  I want justice...You know, i want the handicapped lad and the blind girl who had it TERRIBLE in this life to be able to see and walk forever. 

These are the reasons i keep persevering with the most contradictory book IVE EVER READ!!! ARRGH!!!

The bible to me is like this...

"One day Bobby went out a walk.  While he was out his drive in the car he saw Phillip.  Phillip waved at her and shouted 'Isnt it a lovely afternoon!'
'Why yes!' Replied Casper!  'Night time is great, hey why don't we go for a game of bowls?'
'Ok' said Tony, 'that's a great idea!'
And so Herbert and Esmarelda went for a game of pool.

Seriously!  Thats what im getting here!  And whats worse, after reading it i TRY to make sense of it....Is there two bobbys in the tale?  Did they play bowls and THEN play pool?  Maybe Bobby had 45 different names?

[jesushandsarekindhands]

I just read a massive spiel about this passage...

-----------"If the just one is hardly being saved, where will the irreverent and the sinner appear?"

It was a universal salvation website that (typically 'tried' to make it fit to their views) and went on to justify it by saying:
"Oh but God meant Israel and the people of that day and this and that", and basically it was just another load of rubbish to try to support HIS view.
I read the passage!  Its plain as day from it that FEW WILL BE SAVED!  If he was talking about Jews or whatever, why not say so?

Then i looked at some other views of this passage
--------"If the just one is hardly being saved, where will the irreverent and the sinner appear?"
...The hellfire websites love this passage! 
Apparently theres not many going to be saved at all!  You know, aside from those PERFECT idiots who go around all day laughing at people because theyre going to hell.

Then I read this line of offensive bigoted, hateful drivel...

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

Im not going to make excuses for this rubbish any longer by trying to think that maybe Paul meant this and maybe Paul meant that, and maybe he was talking about a particular kind of man or woman AT THAT TIME, and all that crap to make me 'feel' better.
IT SAYS WHAT IT SAYS. 
God HATES gays plain and simple according to the bigoted, women suppressing idiot.

Well punish me then, im fed up now...he hates gays, he wont let women speak in church,
"If the just one is hardly being saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

Im sick of making excuses for this crap. 
It sounds to me like hes going to be very alone in heaven...But at least he won't have to look at a gay person.  No doubt it will be full of little Fred Phelps' by the sounds of it.

And another thing...Christians all have Gods spirit?  The spirit of truth?  Well how come noone seems to bloody well know the truth?  They spend most of their time arguing and debating with each other!
I'd rather go out and help some people, visit a sick person or somthing than sit around trying to JUSTIFY St Pauls horrible words.

Well he can keep his heaven, I don't want it anymore.  I'm a much nicer person without him it seems.  I really dont want to be doctrined into stopping women speaking in church, hating gays and I'm not even going to get into all the horrible things he did to people in the OT.



I'm off back to my life everyone.


"His ways are beyond figuring out".

You can say that again God, i dont think i could write a book with more crap in it if i tried.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: We've ALL come up against the contradictions, which were ALLOWED by Him in the first place, because..........

Pr 25:2 - It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

The things that we've shared with you so far, showed you that we have spent our time searching out the hidden things of God, when once found, do away with all the contradictions.

And I don't have Skype, and I'm not one of the really strong well versed in UR people on here, or I would be happy to talk with you, anytime. It's the weekend, not a lot of people on here, maybe by Monday when they start reading again, someone with both will come forward. Sorry I can't help any more than that. Blessings..... :girlheart:

PS. And I'll tell you what I would tell anyone else. It does you no good spiritually speaking, to go to anti-UR sites until you are well established and grounded in UR. It's sorta like going to the dump a week later to take back your trash, and then you can't figure out where all the flies are coming from.

[reFORMer]

(I'll try to get a way for us to communicate.  Typing is very slow and you raise some large questions.)

Just a few thoughts for things that many books have already been written about.
__________________________________________________
Judgment is simply setting things right.  To be Judged by God is something  we should beg for as several of the Psalmists did.
__________________________________________________
In the entire recorded history of mankind there is no example of of a culture where homosexual couples married each other.  They had sexual acts with corpses, animals and any number of other people and family.  In many cases this was done as an act of worship.  Homosexuality probably predominated in Sparta.  The bureaucracies of three of the four world empires were run by something we mostly don't think of today.  It was a kind of third sex:  The Eunuch.  In the Roman Empire of Jesus' day families of the nobility would often castrate their sons in order to give them an advantage as a government employee.  Marriage was important for producing heirs.  Because they couldn't procreate, women as well as men had sex with them, even in public, with no threat to their marriage.  Men sometimes preferred their Eunuch rather than their wife.  But there was no homosexual marriage, not in all of human history, not until the last couple of decades.

In the countries in Europe where  such marriage has been practiced for a while they are surprised at the statistics.  Most don't last beyond two years.  Only 2 % of their homosexual populace are getting married.  Applying that to the populace of the USA, there are only about 120,000 persons or 60,000 couples participating in homosexual marriage if legalized.  What is all the hype about then?  I wish I could take the time to answer that more fully.  But, my point to you is you can grow up in today's world molded by certain currents of thought you accept as normal self-evident truth that are none the less unprecedented perversion in the history of mankind.  Yet, you can't see why that could possibly be true.  It seems it is wrong to say God hates homosexuality.
________________________________________________
Every form of ministry was done by women according to the Bible.  There were even female apostles.  Andronicus, a name used by men and women, and Junicas, only used by women, are named as "notable among the apostles."  All of Israel went to The Seeress Judge Deborah who was a married woman.  Scripture says in Christ there is neither male or female.  In Adamic families there is an order.  There is hierarchical authority in the flesh.  But in the Church we are supposed to operate in the liberty of the Spirit with Christ as our present head.  This is seldom done and is deeply fought by some.  Because the nature of the kingdom of God is inward change by the presence of the Holy Spirit and not outward subjection, specially to other mediators as the nations do, we can plainly see much of what is called the Church is Babylon and in deep apostasy.   When have you last attended a meeting called "church" and the Church was on the program?  Where have you gone that on the order of service they noted from say 11 to 12 , or maybe Sunday night, the members of the body of Christ would freely minister one to another as they were led of the Spirit?  They just can't confess the Lordship of Christ over even one of their meetings.  Yet, they get hysterical about defending the authority of men over other men.

Don't esteem Mystery Babylon, Mother of Prostitutes as the Church.

[Cardinal]

They just can't confess the Lordship of Christ over even one of their meetings.  Yet, they get hysterical about defending the authority of men over other men.

:cloud9: That was profound. Never thought about that connection before, but there is the root in the heart of those that were made to be one with the Head (spiritual priesthood), that has defiled the Body (all those in the outer court).

I have asked Him several times to show me the root in the heart of the priesthood. And they condemn their own "flesh" (their "woman") even though He said for the "husbands" to love their "wives", they have HATED theirs. I know I'm speaking in "tongues" here, but I trust you can hear me. Thanks for posting this. Blessings....

[jesushandsarekindhands]

It just seems to me that the more i dont read the bible, and the further i stay away from Church, the more i know 'God'.
Ive had answered prayers.  But was it the bible God?  Certainly i had him in mind when i prayed in some ways, but my image of God was like this...

"If I love, his love is greater, if i have mercy, his was greater", and so on.  Basically every 'good' attribute i have, his is greater.

Now most people would say "Thats the Bible God!"  But really is it?  He does some pretty wild things in the OT, and if i DO know God as many people think then why do i need a Bible, or to even understand everything?

I'll always trust in 'God', but to me that might be a different God now.  When i have prayed and had answers in the past (which were very strong, beyond chance and the reason ive looked for God in the first place in religions), i simply prayed to someone called 'God' who i called 'the creator'.  Although I believe i did find out more about him through Jesus' teachings.

I believe that love creates and hate destroys.  Therefore anything 'sinful' does destroy.  (Although i wouldnt use the word 'sinful' because to me it sounds about 3000 years out of date).  All the 'sinful' or 'wrong' things i can think of do eventually destroy someone, eg, hating people, bad thoughts, being addicted to something, lieing, stealing etc etc.
And i believe that as hate destroys, love creates, so i've always believed that the world was 'created' because of love.

These are all inner beliefs of mine, beliefs that have given me more answered prayer than most Christians ive spoken too.  Am i doing something right then?  I think so.  Are they doing something wrong?  I think so too....I think they worship 'God' in a way he doesn't want.  My last church would pray for about 3 hours for all the people in the world, even people they didn't know.  Did they ever get off their fat bottoms and go out and actually 'help' anyone?  No!  What good is a prayer if they won't lift their fingers to help anyone?  I used to think (know in fact) that God was sitting up their thinking this...
"There are over 30 of you in that church, all able bodied to help others yet you pray for them before youd lift a finger to help them...If you helped some of them i would do the rest and help the others that perhaps you couldnt reach, but there is people you could help RIGHOUT OUTSIDE YOUR FRONT DOOR who you won't even help, and because youd rather just pray rather than help i can see your not really interested in helping anyone at all, so your prayer is meaningless...Your asking me to help everyone.  YOU HELP THEM!  Your the ones with 'faith' in the world, your the ones that can give hope."

Is that Biblical?  I've no idea.  But what i do know is that its true.  Ive always found that I have to go as FAR AS I CAN and THEN God does the rest when its no longer in my power to do anything.

Why did God write his bible in such a way as to make women feel oppressed, to make gay people put a gun to their heads and blow it off because they think God hates them?  ...  I don't know.
Its ok saying "Yeh but languages have changed", etc etc, but cant an all powerful God preserve his word?  How can anyone knows what hes saying?

No wonder we have people using the Bible for all kinds of evil, wars, hatred etc..

Thanks for your answers, i could chat on skype or somthing sometime but only if you want too, im not sure where i go from here, although im feeling almost 100% today, because IVE decided to help ME, and not wait on the God of the bible any longer. 

[whyiloveitaly.com]

jesushandsarekindhands,
I noticed the verse you have at the bottom of your posts: that perfect LOVE casts out fear, because fear has torment.
When man stands before God he sees the LOVE, and is converted.
The problem is that most "believers" are filling people with fear and torment instead of sharing with them that God has saved them and reconciled them to Himself.
Ours is a message of Love, and always will be. There is nothing else. (It's even more important than faith!)

Blessings!
Brian

[jesushandsarekindhands]

jesushandsarekindhands,
I noticed the verse you have at the bottom of your posts: that perfect LOVE casts out fear, because fear has torment.
When man stands before God he sees the LOVE, and is converted.
The problem is that most "believers" are filling people with fear and torment instead of sharing with them that God has saved them and reconciled them to Himself.
Ours is a message of Love, and always will be. There is nothing else. (It's even more important than faith!)

Blessings!
Brian

Im totally in the right place, my church used to say faith was the most important, love didnt count for very much with many of them it seems...it was more or less a tea party for old people on a wednesday morning and a youth club with no discipline the rest of the time...i dont want to bring them down...they just never seemed to me like they knew God...I left that place years ago, tried to find God, i did, i just didnt know it because of all the lies, and now im having problems getting back, but its coming, it really is, ill tell you one thing im in the right place, and owe to this place a LOT.

[anti_nietzsche]

Hi friend,

I often felt a lot like you. When I was an atheist still (as a label with which I identified in society, because of my upbringing, not because I really didn't believe in a God), I used to know God as someone supremely good. And then when I discovered the bible I found that the God I had known was different from the God of the book ... not in all its places, but in some. For example, there is this part of the bible where David calls the disabled son of former King Saul (his name was Mefi Boschet) to live with him and to eat at his table always, he even gave him an inheritance again. When I read this, I find this is the God I have always known, the God of mercy and love. At other places I am simply baffled. I don't understand why Judas had to hang himself so that prophecies could be fulfilled. Stuff like that is dangerously close to certain Calvinist ideas after which God actually predestines people to end in hell.

But lately I'm being led to see that things will make sense in the end. We just can't figure it out now. Sometimes our love for mercy even clouds our view a little. I mean, if God is so merciful, why did he drive out Adam and Eve and their kids from paradise? Couldn't He just have said, ok, I forgive you, now learn from the mistake? Couldn't He have uttered a word of power and might invoking His divine ability so that no one would ever sin again?

God doesn't do this. He wants to save mankind through justice. And if you add to justice Jesus sacrifice, you have salvation like He intends it.

Try not to get mad about God. He really loves you.

And about gays, that is a failure of the church, of christians. I was a transvestite for many years, but then I confessed it and God healed me from it. The problem is, the church still doesn't know how to heal homosexuals ... after 2000 years it still doesn't know. It has no real strategy. And because of that inability some christians hate gays, resorting to the law which in the truth doesn't help us much, like Paul says, because it only produces quarrels. I don't think homosexuality is ok, but we must not stop identifying with sinners. This is a fallen world, and our sexuality is fallen too. I doubt there is anyone out there with a completely pure sexuality like God once intended it to be.

[noname]

I believe that love creates and hate destroys.  Therefore anything 'sinful' does destroy.  (Although i wouldnt use the word 'sinful' because to me it sounds about 3000 years out of date).  All the 'sinful' or 'wrong' things i can think of do eventually destroy someone, eg, hating people, bad thoughts, being addicted to something, lieing, stealing etc etc.
And i believe that as hate destroys, love creates, so i've always believed that the world was 'created' because of love.

you've got it right there hands! :thumbsup:

the Bible will allways be full of contradictions because people will interpret it in different ways...and because it was written by imperfect people, just like you and me...what does stand out for me though is the words and actions of Jesus...everything else should be measured against that :2c:

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Hi friend,

I often felt a lot like you. When I was an atheist still (as a label with which I identified in society, because of my upbringing, not because I really didn't believe in a God), I used to know God as someone supremely good. And then when I discovered the bible I found that the God I had known was different from the God of the book ... not in all its places, but in some. For example, there is this part of the bible where David calls the disabled son of former King Saul (his name was Mefi Boschet) to live with him and to eat at his table always, he even gave him an inheritance again. When I read this, I find this is the God I have always known, the God of mercy and love. At other places I am simply baffled. I don't understand why Judas had to hang himself so that prophecies could be fulfilled. Stuff like that is dangerously close to certain Calvinist ideas after which God actually predestines people to end in hell.

But lately I'm being led to see that things will make sense in the end. We just can't figure it out now. Sometimes our love for mercy even clouds our view a little. I mean, if God is so merciful, why did he drive out Adam and Eve and their kids from paradise? Couldn't He just have said, ok, I forgive you, now learn from the mistake? Couldn't He have uttered a word of power and might invoking His divine ability so that no one would ever sin again?

God doesn't do this. He wants to save mankind through justice. And if you add to justice Jesus sacrifice, you have salvation like He intends it.

Try not to get mad about God. He really loves you.

And about gays, that is a failure of the church, of christians. I was a transvestite for many years, but then I confessed it and God healed me from it. The problem is, the church still doesn't know how to heal homosexuals ... after 2000 years it still doesn't know. It has no real strategy. And because of that inability some christians hate gays, resorting to the law which in the truth doesn't help us much, like Paul says, because it only produces quarrels. I don't think homosexuality is ok, but we must not stop identifying with sinners. This is a fallen world, and our sexuality is fallen too. I doubt there is anyone out there with a completely pure sexuality like God once intended it to be.

Hi thanks for the post, Yes its like i knew God all along but the bible was saying somthing to the contrary and so was the church and its hard to understand the Bible.

The way i see the Judas thing is that God gave EVERYONE free will, but, because God IS God, he could 'see' before time began that Judas would betray Jesus, so God KNEW it would happen, but allowed it, i dont think God forced Judas into anything, i just think that God knew it would happen, and nothing can happen without God, so the bible tries to put that accross as best as it can, but its hard to describe...

As for the Adam and Eve initial sin, i think God wants us to know always what sin does, how bad it really is.  Revelation says somthing about the fire from Satan rising forever, i think that will be a reminder to all of us forever just how bad sin is to make none of us ever want to go back to it, and serve as a reminder of what we did.  I even heard that Jesus will always have those marks from the cross on him now forever, I could be wrong.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

I believe that love creates and hate destroys.  Therefore anything 'sinful' does destroy.  (Although i wouldnt use the word 'sinful' because to me it sounds about 3000 years out of date).  All the 'sinful' or 'wrong' things i can think of do eventually destroy someone, eg, hating people, bad thoughts, being addicted to something, lieing, stealing etc etc.
And i believe that as hate destroys, love creates, so i've always believed that the world was 'created' because of love.

you've got it right there hands! :thumbsup:

the Bible will allways be full of contradictions because people will interpret it in different ways...and because it was written by imperfect people, just like you and me...what does stand out for me though is the words and actions of Jesus...everything else should be measured against that :2c:

Jesus has always been my little favourite i must admit lol.