Away from me, i never knew you?

[jesushandsarekindhands]

If Jesus is going to one day say to some people "Away from me, I never knew you".
Does that mean 'everyone' wont be saved?

I've always been of the belief that hell rather than being eternal punishment is simply 'death'.  Hell/sheol/hades/the grave etc....Not pleasant, but still better than an eternal hell which is utter nonsense.

However...A small part of me still thinks that some people won't be saved to a degree.

Now, I don't want massive pages of scripture thrown at me, because anyone can make the scriptures say what they want it to say.  (The church has been doing that for centuries lol). - I just want an answer to my question....If Jesus says to some people "Away from me, I never knew you", it sounds pretty plain to me like he wants nothing to do with them.

Although I live and HOPE that all men be saved and believe that God CAN do it, i still wonder if maybe God will just leave some behind, cast them out of his presence and sentence them to eternal death, but I believe it will only be to some who really are evil through and through and just won't accept Gods love and salvation. 
And if he is one day ALL in ALL, maybe the people who are dead (have body and soul destroyed as the bible says) are just 'none existent anymore', so God cant be in them because....They don't exist anymore...AT ALL.
"The face of the LORD is against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth." (Niv)Psalm 14:16

We all "see through the glass darkly" (I Cor. 13) and none of us know everything, so, what do you think about this?
I know what i WANT to believe, but what I want and what is true is two different things.

Anyone?

[WhiteWings]

Short answer.
The verse doesn't say "go away forever"

However...A small part of me still thinks that some people won't be saved to a degree

That's what some Jewish scholars believe too.
All will get to heaven but a few very very nasty ones won't enter heaven.

[WhiteWings]

Longer version

1.
re-thinking some of the parables ... No.20
BUILD YOUR HOUSE ARIGHT!
ENTRY INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS NOT AUTOMATIC JUST
BECAUSE YOU ARE 'BORN FROM ABOVE'!
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Condition for entry . . . DOING FATHER'S WILL
Some can say, "Lord, Lord" and it will come from their oneness with their Lord. It is implied here that most
will says the words but will not have the reality in them!
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have
cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?
Moving in the gifts of the Spirit on its own, without a real relationship with Father, is not sufficient. 'My
ministry' is not on the 'pass' for entry into the Kingdom of God!
'I never knew you' . . . 'knew' = Gk. GNOSKO 1087 = UNDERSTAND; PERCEIVE; BE IN UNION WITH. It could
be written, 'We have not become fully acquainted.'
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
'iniquity' = LAWLESSNESS = unharnessed ways of man that have ignored God's ways.
We must seek that relationship with Father . . . for out of it will come His will, His way and His timing . . .
above all, His will in regard to building one's house is of paramount for knowing Him and entering His domain, the
Kingdom of Heaven.
THE HOUSE-BUILDING TEST!
This house is your whole life (spirit, mind and body) wherein God dwells as you.
The WISE MAN is one who KNOWS His God well, not just knowing ABOUT Him. It will be evident
because this wise man can and will hear these words and, by God's grace, do like He says.
(24) Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man,
which built his house upon a rock:
Building on rock is harder and takes longer than building on sand . It has to be done with great thought as to
its detail. The foundation is solidly joined into the rock and its top surface is level to receive the superstructure and
roof. Once the house is complete, the foundation usually gets covered up and will look just like the house that is built
upon sand. However, . . .
2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless THE FOUNDATION OF GOD stands sure, having this seal, The Lord KNOWS them
that are his. And, Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Just like we say that our house has a foundation of concrete, here we must have the testimony that our life's
foundation is God. . . our foundation, when examined, will show that God is very present in every part.
The only reliable (true) foundation in the building of one's life is Christ. Christ in you is the Living Word in you
which is solid and cannot be moved/changed. We have the mind of Christ once our foundation has been laid in our
lives. Our foundation must be laid correctly as to size and content. There are no short-cuts! Does the foundation of
your life match up with the parts shown in Hebrews 6? . . .
(1) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection (the completion of
one's house); not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
(2) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal
judgment. (3) And this will we do, if God permit.
2.
HOW YOU BUILD YOUR 'HOUSE' is very important
FOR EVERY 'HOUSE' (LIFE'S BUILDING) WILL BE TESTED
The test will come as . . . 'rain '= 'words' from the 'religious' realm coming to you — pounding on your roof
(head!). Friends who do not understand where you are coming from, will do everything (including threats) to
convince you to come back to their way of building one's house.
'floods' = all sorts of words muddied with the 'earthly' thinking of man who just cannot soak up the
true life giving content . . . beating upon one's thinking! The scriptures will be quoted at you without any semblance
of revelation, and they expect you to submit to their building code!
'the wind' = of adversity . . . whereby circumstances just seem to overwhelm us . . . testing whether
we have that relationship with Father. All these things happen to you because you are not traditional or conventional.
(25) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell
not: for it was founded upon a rock.
TEST RESULT = 'PASSED'!
NOW BY CONTRAST
These ones heard the word of the Lord also. . . BUT either didn't understand them by the Spirit or would rather go
with the crowd — anyway, they did not do what Father desired.
(26) And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man,
which built his house upon the sand:
'foolish man' = one devoid of wisdom and understanding that comes from the Holy Spirit that would set him
free from the traditions of men.
'sand' depicts people and their words that are not compacted together for when the test comes, it is every man for
himself! Here comes the same TEST.
(27) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell:
and great was the fall of it.
TEST RESULT = FAILED!
THESE SAYINGS OF JESUS — whether done or not — will show up the strength of your 'house'. These
teachings go back in context to include the whole 'Sermon on the mount', which is the foundation of God.
(28) And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at His doctrine:
'doctrine' = teaching.
(29) For He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
AUTHORITY COMES FROM RELATIONSHIP
Jesus taught with authority BECAUSE HE had a perfect relationship with His Father.
The Scribes knew the Word of the Lord but they did not know the Lord of the Word.
Entering the Kingdom of Heaven is more than being 'born' into the family of God. In the same way, the
Children of Israel of old were brought out of Egypt by the blood of the Lamb, they still had to WALK INTO the
Promised Land which equates to the Kingdom of God . . . we too have to walk it out. The wise ones will make it,
but the foolish ones will not. Remember the foolish virgins of Matthew 25 were still in God's plans, but not a part of
those 'first-fruits' that were ready! Let us press towards the prize for the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. §

[preistsplace]

thank you WW that was  :thumbsup:

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Whitewings thank you, that website is very interesting, after reading the stuff you put on here I read some of the other things on there as well.  (godfire.net).

I think my problem right now is that ive heard a hundred interpretations of all these passages before...does anyone REALLY understand them, or can people just make them say anything.  I know that I dont understand them, although the reasoning sounds....very reasonable to me.

I have another question though...
Why does God say-
Hebrews 3:11 >>
   
NIV©   So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'"
NAS©   AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"
ISV©   So in my anger I swore a solemn oath that they would never enter my rest."

And what about the unpardonable sin that can 'NEVER be forgiven'?  What will happen to those people?

[WhiteWings]

Hi handyman,

I don't understand all passage. Just a fraction of them actually.
What I do know is that the interpretation that require least bending/twisting of words and aligns with other untwisted verses is the right one.

And what about the unpardonable sin that can 'NEVER be forgiven'?  What will happen to those people?

Never=aion=age
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?action=search2

In case you don't know yet: http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Hi handyman,

I don't understand all passage. Just a fraction of them actually.
What I do know is that the interpretation that require least bending/twisting of words and aligns with other untwisted verses is the right one.

And what about the unpardonable sin that can 'NEVER be forgiven'?  What will happen to those people?

Never=aion=age
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?action=search2

In case you don't know yet: http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

Whitewings thank you, I'm going to print out all that stuff and read it later, and i'll get back to you with an honest response.
Thanks a lot.

[WhiteWings]

/quote]

While printing don't forget this one: http://www.bible-truths.com/
Scroll halfway down the page.
From experience I can tell you it's about 600 pages. :icon_joker:

[jesushandsarekindhands]

/quote]

While printing don't forget this one: http://www.bible-truths.com/
Scroll halfway down the page.
From experience I can tell you it's about 600 pages. :icon_joker:

Lol, my printer just ran out of ink, so that's that!

I read the part about there being no hell, Im still unsure, but either way i see hell as separation from God, still unsure whether that separation is eternal or not, so I can't talk about that right now.

Again, many thanks

[WhiteWings]

I read the part about there being no hell, Im still unsure, but either way i see hell as separation from God, still unsure whether that separation is eternal or not, so I can't talk about that right now.

A very friendly challange. Where does it say hell exists?
Yes the Bible mentions hell. Hell=grave. Hel is old anglo saxon for: hidden/out of sight/covered.

In case your answer is that LoF=hell then my reply is that that is no seperation but likely more close to Father as you would desire at that moment. Lasts an age.

Always remember: "....there will be no more tears..."

[chuckt]

away from me......for the eon.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

I read the part about there being no hell, Im still unsure, but either way i see hell as separation from God, still unsure whether that separation is eternal or not, so I can't talk about that right now.

A very friendly challange. Where does it say hell exists?
Yes the Bible mentions hell. Hell=grave. Hel is old anglo saxon for: hidden/out of sight/covered.

In case your answer is that LoF=hell then my reply is that that is no seperation but likely more close to Father as you would desire at that moment. Lasts an age.

Always remember: "....there will be no more tears..."

When I say hell, what im really meaning is the grave or death, i just use that word (after years of hearing it lol).  So when i say hell i dont mean eternal punishment, i believe that perhaps death is eternal, but not that God punishes people for eternity.

Im still looking into all this, but the no more tear thing sounds really great and to be honest, if i had it my way, id do everything to save everyone in my power and God is greater than me, and...he can do whatever he wants.

Its funny i was just browsing through Yahoo answers and i saw this response about hell to someone on there...

"No way..dream on.Your not actually dead when your in hell you can feel all the pain.Dont think that if your burned in there you are dead and you dont have to face the pain anymore.You are actually given more and more fat skin to let de fire burn away on you and evrytime it burns off,God gives you more.So theres no running away.And its forever.Think of that word."

...I don't know where they get it from, not only do some people still believe in a literal firey hell, but they even make that hell out to be worse than it already is depicted!

[WhiteWings]

You are actually given more and more fat skin to let de fire burn away on you and evrytime it burns off,God gives you more.

Are you sure that was a Christian writing?
Sounds like a muslim doctrine. They have a verse of renewal of skin to experience your punshment to the highest degree.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

You are actually given more and more fat skin to let de fire burn away on you and evrytime it burns off,God gives you more.

Are you sure that was a Christian writing?
Sounds like a muslim doctrine. They have a verse of renewal of skin to experience your punshment to the highest degree.

It may well have been whitewings, im really not sure, i was looking for a bible passage and just stumbled across it.  But, what a horrible way to think either way! I can't believe people can worship a God they believe is like that, it really shows me how horrible they are.

[Tony N]

I have another question though...
Why does God say-
Hebrews 3:11 >>
   
NIV©   So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'"
NAS©   AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"
ISV©   So in my anger I swore a solemn oath that they would never enter my rest."

And what about the unpardonable sin that can 'NEVER be forgiven'?  What will happen to those people?

Friend, that is what was said before they went into the Promised Land which was His rest:

Hebrews 3:8-11 CLV  You should not be hardening your hearts as in the embitterment, In the day of trial in the wilderness,  (9)  Where your fathers try Me in the testing, And were acquainted with My acts forty years."  (10)  Wherefore, "I am disgusted with this generation, and said, 'Ever are they straying in heart; Yet they know not My ways.'"  (11)  As I swear in My indignation, 'If they shall be entering into My stopping-!'"

It has nothing to do with salvation from sin through the death of His Son.

It is never said, in a properly translated Bible, that the unpardonable sin will NEVER be forgiven. It does say it will not be pardoned in this eon or in that [eon] which is impending.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending."

It is like today in our legal system. A guy goes to prison for this decade and that [decade] which is impending. The judge says his crime is unpardonable. This means he must do the full time for the crime (the remainder of this decade and the next 10 years.

However, if his crime were pardonable and the governor pardoned him he could be let out immediately. But just because the one that was not pardoned we should not take this to mean he will NEVER be let out of prison. Get it? Thus is is for the blasphemy of the holy spirit. It cannot and will not be pardoned. So they must do the full time for the crime.

[jesushandsarekindhands]

Tony thanks a lot that was a great description, really made sense.

[aspiring son]

I have another question though...
Why does God say-
Hebrews 3:11 >>
   
NIV©   So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'"
NAS©   AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"
ISV©   So in my anger I swore a solemn oath that they would never enter my rest."

And what about the unpardonable sin that can 'NEVER be forgiven'?  What will happen to those people?

Friend, that is what was said before they went into the Promised Land which was His rest:

Hebrews 3:8-11 CLV  You should not be hardening your hearts as in the embitterment, In the day of trial in the wilderness,  (9)  Where your fathers try Me in the testing, And were acquainted with My acts forty years."  (10)  Wherefore, "I am disgusted with this generation, and said, 'Ever are they straying in heart; Yet they know not My ways.'"  (11)  As I swear in My indignation, 'If they shall be entering into My stopping-!'"

It has nothing to do with salvation from sin through the death of His Son.

It is never said, in a properly translated Bible, that the unpardonable sin will NEVER be forgiven. It does say it will not be pardoned in this eon or in that [eon] which is impending.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending."

It is like today in our legal system. A guy goes to prison for this decade and that [decade] which is impending. The judge says his crime is unpardonable. This means he must do the full time for the crime (the remainder of this decade and the next 10 years.

However, if his crime were pardonable and the governor pardoned him he could be let out immediately. But just because the one that was not pardoned we should not take this to mean he will NEVER be let out of prison. Get it? Thus is is for the blasphemy of the holy spirit. It cannot and will not be pardoned. So they must do the full time for the crime.

I enjoyed that description.

For those who stand before Christ as he says to them "depart from me, I never knew you", I believe are also those who have all of the outward appearance of doing God's work but, but are really building a kingdom for themselves. They use his word, but their trust is not in him. As Jesus put it brazenly " you cannot serve two masters". For those partaking in the kingdom, they are being led every step of the way, like a child being guided by their parent. They come to the point through the process of this life as only knowing the Father's will as their own, just as Jesus did. This is what the partaker of the kingdom is learning in this life, and his life is a ministry and testimony to all of creation.

Grace

brandon