John 10:13-10:28 - How many groups of sheep?

[WhiteWings]

John 10:13-16 
13 "He flees because he is a hireling, and is not concerned about the sheep. 
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me, 
15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 
16 "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they shall hear My voice; and they shall become one flock with one shepherd.

Here I see 2 groups of sheep. One group inside de fold. One outside the fold.
BTW a fold is a courtyard. I think that refers to the courtyard around the tabernacle...?
John 10:17-30   
17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 
18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father." 
19 There arose a division again among the Jews because of these words. 
20 And many of them were saying, "He has a demon and is insane. Why do you listen to Him?" 
21 Others were saying, "These are not the sayings of one demon-possessed. A demon cannot open the eyes of the blind, can he?" 
22 At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; 
23 it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 
24 The Jews therefore gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." 
25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these bear witness of Me. 
26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. 
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. 

Here His sheep are defined as the ones that hear His voice.
That certainly are the sheep in the fold/courtyard.
But reading 10:16 again we see that also the sheep outside the fold hear His voice.
That's a strange for several reasons:
a] There can be only 2 groups. Inside and outside the fold.
b] Every sheep is owned by Jesus: John 3:35  The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. & John 6:37  All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

And surely all=sheep=humanity
My guess is that the Jews from verse 24 are part of the sheep outside the fold of verse 16

[WhiteWings]

^WWJohn 10:16 "And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they shall hear My voice; and they shall become one flock with one shepherd in the future

The blue addition makes sense because not all sheep follow Jesus right now.


But  John 10:26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. 
still gives me problems understanding.
All sheep belong to Jesus from before creation.
If not that 3rd group would be the ET sheep of hell...

[IceDash]

lol...lee100 really got people while I was gone for months...

[Livelystone]

IMO we have three harvests of three crops that may be used to represent the gathering together as one complete Body of Christ........ they are the Barley harvest of Passover, the Wheat harvest of Pentecost and finally the fruit harvests that need to have their tough skins  tread down and broken at the end of the year.

The Barley and the wheat are both grains but are not yet one (on one accord worshipping in spirit and in truth)......... they like the two sticks of Israel and Judea are two folds that must become one.

Just my  :2c:

Blessings

Doug

[WhiteWings]

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Is that verse linked? Like the ratio of the 2 harvests?

[Livelystone]

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

I that verse linked? Like the ratio of teh 2 harvests?

The oil and the wine is the good that comes from the ingathering of the fruit harvests........ like the wheat with chaff it need to be separated from what about it will glorify its creator and what will not.......... the rough stuff

However IMO the three measures of barley is the firstfruites starting with the Apostles that were born before their due time and then the ones who will come forth very soon....... IMO they are being matured as we speak as barley matures in the midst of severe weather that would destroy wheat if it sprouts to early........ barley will not bond with yeast (leaven sin) it makes unleavened bread

Wheat too needs to matured as it will bond with leaven and it those "omer of barley seeds" that will have a lot to do with the wheat that may still be sifted by Satan while growing maturing........ We see the firstfruits of Jesus time perfecting the Wheat in its due time in Luke 6:1.......... However IMO I do not see a difference between either perfected wheat or mature barley and in the end are both paid a penny for their wages

Luke 6: 1And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.

Barley will also perfect the fruit (tread down the winepress putting an end to all other authority) at the end but all three times it is used will still only get paid the same penny (see parable of the wages paid)

That is more or less how I see it in a nutshell........ someone else may have something to add or for that matter take away if done lawfully.

Blessings

Doug