Egypt, God's people

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Someone on Youtube brought this wonderful chapter to my attention the other day, thought it might help understand universal salvation a bit more:

Isaiah 19:

19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.

20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.

22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.

23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.

24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:

25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

Love to all,
Brian


But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.  (Acts 10:35)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, I can see it as that, too. I can also see it as Israel (prince of God in our midst) is a blessing in the midst of Egypt (type of flesh) and the Assyrians (type of carnal mind which initiates works), both of which will eventually bow the knee. Every macrocosm in there is also a microcosm of our makeup. It's a personal Word. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

Egypt means darkness.

[rosered]

 you  know  I have been thinking about this  for a few days now  :mblush:

  I wondered if its because Egypt seems to be  one of the oldest  nations on record  in the bible
compared to America being only 230 years old  more or less   humm.

we know that
  the spiritual /symbolic  of Sodom /Egypt where the Lord was crucified 

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, whichSodom = "burning"and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.  spiritually is called


Is the begining /foundation [Lamb slain   maybe ?]I looked at strongs 
Sodom destroyed by burning   hummm
 here it says
sorry WW   unless copts   means darkness    double straits means     :dontknow:   Egypt =Mitsrayim
H 4714



n pr loc
Egypt = "land of the Copts"
1) a country at the northeastern section of Africa, adjacent to Palestine, and through which the Nile flows

adj
Egyptians = "double straits"
2) the inhabitants or natives of Egypt

greek  125 Aigyptos
Egypt = "double straits"

1) a country occupying the northeast angle of Africa

2) metaph. Jerusalem, for the Jews persecuting the Christ and his followers, and so to be likened to the Egyptians treating the Jews


metaph. Jerusalem Rev. 11:8
Dictionary .com
:winkgrin:
Copt  (kŏpt)   
n. 
An Egyptian belonging to or descended from the people of ancient or pre-Islamic Egypt.
A member of the Coptic Church.

[French Copte, from New Latin Coptus, from Arabic Qubṭ, Copts, from Coptic Gyptias, from Greek Aiguptios, an Egyptian, from Aiguptos, Egypt, of Egyptian origin.]
. Often, straits. (used with a singular verb) a narrow passage of water connecting two large bodies of water.
2. Often, straits. a position of difficulty, distress, or need: Ill and penniless, he was in sad straits indeed. 
3. Archaic. a narrow passage or area.
4. an isthmus.

–adjective Archaic. 5. narrow: Strait is the gate. 
6. affording little space; confined in area.
7. strict, as in requirements or principles.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1150–1200; ME streit < OF estreit < L strictus ptp. of stringere to bind; see strain 1

  just curious ...... :HeartThrob:  rose

[Beloved Servant]

  Every macrocosm in there is also a microcosm of our makeup. It's a personal Word.

Amen Card, and our 5 senses.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Interesting comments...
I've also read that, as Egypt can be understood as the flesh, and Israel served Egypt in bondage to her as part of God's plan..

and as God did NOT punish Israel for serving Egypt in slavery (because it was ordained by God)....

could it be that those who are "in the flesh" today, are simply fulfilling God's mandate?

Brian

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.  (Acts 10:35)

[noname]

mmm...let's not forget that Israel's Birthright (the Kingdom) was given to the sons of Joseph (Ephraim & Mannaseh)...who's mother was Egyptian...

the Sceptre (to rule) was given to Judah for a time...until their King (Jesus) came who many of them are still denying
Judah ruled over the whole Israel until the split after Solomon when Judah ruled "the house of Judah" (including Benjamin and Levi) and Joseph through Ephraim ruled the 10 other tribes of "the house of Israel" which were "lost" into the nations during and after their Assyrian captivity

Jesus' first work on earth was to claim the Sceptre (King of the Jews) as it was written on the cross...His second work will be to re-unite the Sceptre (Judah) with the Kingdom (Joseph)...as Isaiah also prophesized that the "staff of Judah" would be united with "the staff of Joseph" to become one in God's hand...

[Cardinal]

Interesting comments...
I've also read that, as Egypt can be understood as the flesh, and Israel served Egypt in bondage to her as part of God's plan..

Amen, Israel (prince of God within us) served Egypt our flesh/body in bondage to her as part of God's plan, for it is written the elder shall serve the younger...
/b]

and as God did NOT punish Israel for serving Egypt in slavery (because it was ordained by God)....

Amen, no the prince was not punished contrary to what it looks like to the world, for truly it is more blessed to give than to receive, whereby God has exalted Him above every name that is named, and if He be lifted up He shall draw all men (flesh) unto Him

could it be that those who are "in the flesh" today, are simply fulfilling God's mandate?

Brian

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.  (Acts 10:35)

[whyiloveitaly.com]

This is so interesting..

Jesus was crucified in (spiritual) Sodom and Egypt... but why? Does it have to do with being "outside the camp?"

The part about the "staff of Judah" and the "staff of Joseph" is new to me--I'd like to hear more!

"The elder shall serve the younger" --would refer to the "spirit" serving the "flesh?"



Brian

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Rom. 5:19)

[rosered]

This is so interesting..

Jesus was crucified in (spiritual) Sodom and Egypt... but why? Does it have to do with being "outside the camp?"

The part about the "staff of Judah" and the "staff of Joseph" is new to me--I'd like to hear more!

"The elder shall serve the younger" --would refer to the "spirit" serving the "flesh?"



Brian

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Rom. 5:19)

  Good thoughts Brian!

  could be the  spirit/power of God on High  of  being born again /spiritual  NEW creature in Christ  is serving the flesh  Paul speaks of having that authority
and keeping/ beating  his body in subjection/as a slave  , the rod of Iron  ruling the nations perhaps ??  the spiritual and  natural bodies  starts within , you are the temple of the Living God

  good stuff Bro makes me think  :thumbsup:

  the spiritual  Sodom/ Egypt is   compared  to Jerusalem and we know Paul speaks of the two, the one above that is free/ Spirit realm  and the one below that is in slavery /  of the natural realm

  Jesus was treated as an outcast  to the natural realm but in the Spirit realm it was the Power of God working  in Him
  lots to consider in this ... :HeartThrob:  rose

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Yes.. in fact the thing that's got me thinking is this: that Israel was made a slave to Egypt, and was not punished by God for serving it.

Will the world be punished for "serving the flesh?" It would seem not. (This doesn't mean that there would be no "consequeces" for doing so..)

In other words, the "church" says that the world is sinning. And it is. But it would seem that the world has been made a slave to sin, and is not at fault for it, because God has designed it that way..

[Taffy]

This is so interesting..

Jesus was crucified in (spiritual) Sodom and Egypt... but why? Does it have to do with being "outside the camp?"

The part about the "staff of Judah" and the "staff of Joseph" is new to me--I'd like to hear more!

"The elder shall serve the younger" --would refer to the "spirit" serving the "flesh?"



Brian

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Rom. 5:19)

:icon_flower:

Christ was Crucified as we all Know in Jerusalem . which IS  Sodom and Egypt IN  type, = Darkness =OC
Outside the camp is being where Christ died FOR ALL FLESH , Card will word it better that I.

The flesh is first Natural In order , the spirit is 2nd in order , hence in turn the Elder ,the Flesh WILL serve[ SUBMIT]  TO the spirit...
also as with Joseph, as a type [ spirit] when His Father and Brothers[ Old C) are seen to bow before Him

:icon_flower:

[Taffy]

Yes.. in fact the thing that's got me thinking is this: that Israel was made a slave to Egypt, and was not punished by God for serving it.

Will the world be punished for "serving the flesh?" It would seem not. (This doesn't mean that there would be no "consequeces" for doing so..)

In other words, the "church" says that the world is sinning. And it is. But it would seem that the world has been made a slave to sin, and is not at fault for it, because God has designed it that way..

Its types and shadows Brian

Israel in Bondage to the Flesh , blinded by Darkness, if you recall, once the trying of their Faith was put to the test, they wished to return to serve Pharoah..the flesh is IN bondage until its released by the miracle of Faith.

Which ONLY HE GIVES US. :icon_flower:

[Cardinal]

This is so interesting..

Jesus was crucified in (spiritual) Sodom and Egypt... but why? Does it have to do with being "outside the camp?"

For one thing, the scapegoat was released outside the camp to die, and He bore our sins as a type of scapegoat.

The part about the "staff of Judah" and the "staff of Joseph" is new to me--I'd like to hear more!

"The elder shall serve the younger" --would refer to the "spirit" serving the "flesh?"

Yes, in the context I was sharing that type, the Spirit does "serve" the flesh, ie. God so loved the world He sent His only begotten Son (which is Spirit birthed thru flesh)



Brian

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Rom. 5:19)

[noname]

The part about the "staff of Judah" and the "staff of Joseph" is new to me--I'd like to hear more!

hey Brian,
sure mate...first of all we must go back to Jacob/Israel's blessing of Joseph's sons, Ephraim & Manasseh to understand the prophecy of Ezekiel (sorry I said Isaiah before) about the staff/sticks:

Genesis 48
15 Then he blessed Joseph and said,
       "May the God before whom my fathers
       Abraham and Isaac walked,
       the God who has been my shepherd
       all my life to this day,

16 the Angel who has delivered me from all harm
       —may he bless these boys.
       May they be called by my name
       and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac,
       and may they increase greatly
       upon the earth."

so from the above we see, that Jacob/Israel blesses Ephraim & Manasseh (i.e. "the tribes of Joseph") to:
(1) be called by his name (Israel)...the name God gave Jacob after Jacob struggled with God, lost, and submitted his will to God...Israel means "struggling with God",
(2) to be called by the names of Abraham and Isaac (according to the rightful owner's of the covenant by faith),
(3) that they may increase greatly upon the earth (the fruitfulness mandate given to Abraham that his descendants might become as many as "the sand of the sea"...this mandate to follow through the sons of Joseph)

further:
20 He blessed them that day and said,
       "In your name will Israel pronounce this blessing:
       'May God make you like Ephraim and Manasseh.' "

from the above we can see that in Joseph's name (i.e. Ephraim & Manasseh), will Israel be blessed


Ezekile 37
One Nation Under One King
15 The word of the LORD came to me: 16 "Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Ephraim's stick, belonging to Joseph and all the house of Israel associated with him.' 17 Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.
18 "When your countrymen ask you, 'Won't you tell us what you mean by this?' 19 say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph—which is in Ephraim's hand—and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah's stick, making them a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand.' 20 Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on 21 and say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding,  and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
24 " 'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' "

From the above we can see that the God will join Israel as a whole nation again to be ruled by His servant David (ie Jesus who is descendant from David)
When God joins Israel again, they will no longer "defile themselves with idols"...thye would be cleansed.

Now many people today say that the state of Israel is God's miracle of bringing the nation of Israel together after all these years...well, questions we have to ask ourselves are the following based upon the evidence and prophecy we find in Ezekiel:

(1)   is the staff of Judah united with that of Joseph?
Surely not...most of the Jews in Israel are descendants of only Judah, Benjamin and Levi...surely one cannot claim the whole land if all the tribes are not united? It would be like only a few states in America claim for themselves the whole of America...
(2)   Does the modern "nation of Israel" submit to God's will?
a.   The current Israelites make war and shed the blood of many innocents...their leaders are charged with corruption and many other sins AND Ephraim does not hold the staff of Israel...for Ephraim and Manasseh are still "lost in the nations"...the modern nation of Israel is definitely NOT holy and its "un-holiness" is there for the world to see
b.   Most Jews in Israel do not recognize Jesus Christ as their rightful King, just as the Pharisees and Sadducees and people of old rejected Him. They ascribe to Judaism which is a religion found in Babylon and their "bible" is the Talmud...orthodox Jews also do not recognize Jesus as King even though they ascribe to the Torah (books of Moses – first 5 books of the Bible)

This prophecy of Ezekiel clearly shows us that God will send His servant David (ie Jesus) to come again and unite ALL nations...first it was to send Judah their King (which most rejected) and second to call Joseph (Israel) from ALL nations of the world...

The obedient Church today IS the new Israel from many nations from where we are all called to unite with our King.

Rise UP house of Joseph for the Kingdom and Abraham's blessings are ours!!  :bigGrin:

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Noname,
Nice input. I completely agree that the fleshly Israel is NOT the Israel as God will have it to be. In fact, we read that they have been set aside by God in order to graft in the gentiles.

I think that fleshly Israel knows this deep down. Looking back at the holocaust is sufficient to see that they "lost" something. Unfortunately, now they're acting with evil towards Palestine! So the violence and hate just keeps going 'round, like a wheel..

I believe that people who have really heard the voice of God are people who are ready to sacrifice themselves for the rest of the world, just as Jesus our Leader did. Unfortunately, the "church" is mostly interested in "rapture" and are just as self-absorbed as their "god" is...

[noname]

I couldn't have said it better!

[V.I.D.]

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message884603/pg1

Well this guy apparently believes that the egyptian god was put to death and then resurrected himself .
lol

[Molly]

"The elder shall serve the younger" --would refer to the "spirit" serving the "flesh?"

I don't think so.  The elder is the flesh.  The elder is the law.  The elder is Esau.  First the natural, then the spiritual.  First the Law, then Grace.   First Adam, then Jesus.  Who is our Master?  Jesus.

The flesh will serve the spirit.

[Molly]

Unfortunately, now they're acting with evil towards Palestine! So the violence and hate just keeps going 'round, like a wheel..

Take a look at the boundaries of the promised land in the Bible.  It extends from the Nile to the Euphrates.  Palestine is just the tip of the iceberg.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Through all of this, I'm thinking more and more that we need to see ALL people as God's people! If this were to spread abroad, wars and conflicts would be easier to avoid! There would be no "infidels" or "bad guys."
It might sound like a utopia, but one thing seems clear: we are ALL God's handiwork! Whoever are we to judge others???????

:HeartThrob:

[Tim B]

Someone on Youtube brought this wonderful chapter to my attention the other day, thought it might help understand universal salvation a bit more:

Isaiah 19:

19 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.

20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.

22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.

23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.

24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:

25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

Love to all,
Brian


But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.  (Acts 10:35)

I like these words, because it says: even though God does smite, he also heals those he smites.  :bigGrin:

Through all of this, I'm thinking more and more that we need to see ALL people as God's people! If this were to spread abroad, wars and conflicts would be easier to avoid! There would be no "infidels" or "bad guys."
It might sound like a utopia, but one thing seems clear: we are ALL God's handiwork! Whoever are we to judge others???????

:HeartThrob:

I think that we should too, or I at least hope we can. This whole garbage about there being the "believers" on one side and "sinners" on the other side, is just that: GARBAGE. God loves everybody, and that's why he died on the cross and rose from the dead: to be savior of the WORLD and to conciliate THE WORLD to Himself (notice, not Himself to the world). This means God was already in good terms with mankind, and that it was MAN who was NOT in good terms with God.

I really hate religious categories.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Tim,
I hate them, too.
Some people believe that it is precisely the "turn or burn" theology which is causing so much hatred in the world. It's a horrible thing to tell people that God is going to abandon or torment them when they die. There's absolutely no love in that at all.