How many verses the NT really is?

[WhiteWings]

Jesus came with a message. When preached the message it often wasn't clear. Or people wanted to rebuke Him.
So He replied. What if people just had listened and asked no questions. Then we have much less pages in the NT.
Is that remaining part the true message? Or should we assume that all would have preached anyway; no matter what the public asked.

This question sprang to mind when thinking of a reply I made in another thread about making the "all verse" complicated.
Just my guess but I think Jesus preached some some sort of core message. Then depending on the questions He got He added bits. So if we read "the mans asked....Jesus answered...." then we read something that quite possibly was not asked/preached in any other town. That would mean Jesus was teaching half truths.
And that I don't believe. So that's why I think there is some core message. An entry level gospel.
Maybe 30 pages instead of 500.

Thoughts?

[Cat]

Hmmm, I'm sure this is true to a certain extent, but I can't help but feel that what we have in terms of Jesus' words, are ALL useful for someone somewhere throughout the centuries.  I think the problems we have are because of translation issues.  Lets say 'English' was around 2000 years ago and had the same meanings as it does today, and Jesus spoke 'English'.  Then I'm sure if the original manuscripts were written in 'our' language, we'd have no problem understanding ALL of it.    :bgdance:

[WhiteWings]

I'm not so sure about that Cat.
Jesus had to rebuke the Pharisee and Saducian teachings. Those people where highly devoted, lived in the same time and culture. Plus their language was the same. And still they got things wrong.
Some things in the Bible are veiled. People don't accept that and try to look behind the veil.
That alone is enough for another wrong teaching.

[Pierac]

You will also notice that Paul's letters are really just a defense to his teachings. People came behind him from Jerusalem to his churches he established and were altering his teachings. His letters were his defence of his own teachings.


Paul

[Cat]

Pierac,  I always 'believed' that 'Paul's' teachings are 'Christs'.  I recall him saying 'I' not the holy spirit, to differentiate when he was giving his opinion.  We have an NT that is dominated by this man's teachings or rather his claims that what he teaches is 'truth'.  Are you suggesting that what he says is not binding on us, or have I misunderstood your reply?

[Pierac]

Pierac,  I always 'believed' that 'Paul's' teachings are 'Christs'.  I recall him saying 'I' not the holy spirit, to differentiate when he was giving his opinion.  We have an NT that is dominated by this man's teachings or rather his claims that what he teaches is 'truth'.  Are you suggesting that what he says is not binding on us, or have I misunderstood your reply?

I'm saying his letters were written as a defense against what others were trying do to his established churches. Do you some how think Paul was writing specifically to you?


Php 2:20  For I have no one else of kindred spirit who will genuinely be concerned for your welfare. 21  For they all seek after their own interests, not those of Christ Jesus.

[martincisneros]

Yeah, WhiteWings you're right.  There was a core message that Jesus preached.  It was Isaiah 61 and Leviticus 25.  He preached Himself as the acceptable year of the Lord: poor, you don't have to be poor any more because I AM here; sick, you don't have to be sick any more 'cause I AM here.  Acts chapter 10 backs me up on this and I can give you other Scripture references later, but look at what St. Peter taught at Cornelius house about the peace that was preached by Jesus Christ throughout all of Judea after the baptism which John preached, and that message of peace by Jesus Christ entailed in verse 38: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, Who went about doing good and healing ALL that were oppressed of the devil for God was with Him. 

Today we do the identical exact same thing because Christ Jesus is with us in His High Priestly ministry.  2Corinthians 10 says that we're supposed to be kidnapping people's minds; Colossians 3:12-17 and 1John 2:5-6 says we're supposed to be saying and doing absolutely everything as Him.  Zero difference today: He wants people delivered from all of their bondages.  A lot of people are waiting on Him to say it again before they'll say it, but we have 66 volumes that say what to say.  Call 'em all redeemed and all of their bodies put back together, their families whole, and their every single need met even if you've got to pick up a biscuit and bless it and feed the eons.  When Christians realize that "The Good News" is His Nonnegotiable Will and His Nonnegotiable Stance, then this world will be turned upside down! 


(Those -- and there's more than one -- that have difficulty reading long posts of mine don't have to read beyond this point to have gotten what I was saying in answer to the opening post, but the preach/teach hit me again, so :dontknow:)


But the Written Word must be first priority and final authority in absolutely everything.  Daily He's leaving us an example that we should be following in His footsteps, as St. Peter said.  Very very few things are genuinely time released Gospel capsules, as far as wait Him out and then... No, the word 'wait' in the Scriptures means like waiting like a waiter in a restaurant.  And there is no taking His order without the Book.  He's already made His reservations by it.  He's sat down waiting 'til His enemies are made His footstool and the feet are on the Body and not on the Head.  The Message today is one of being Seated with Him in heaven.  Every believer at these boards is already in heaven and in the only heaven they're ever going to be in, i.e. the heavenlies in Christ -- it's the same word. 

We must begin to heal the sick and raise the dead again by proclaiming Isaiah 40 to the people that their warfare has ended, so you'll run and not be weary, you'll walk and not faint if you'll wait upon Him.  He is your Jubilee, and He died to make you rich, according to 2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 calling attention to the 9th verse of the 8th chapter in that context.  And although rich doesn't just mean money, if you exclude it rather than gambling on the robe with the soldiers that just touching the hem of His garment, as the woman did in Mark 5, will remove the poverty you've fallen into by having spent all you had and have become not the least bit better but only worse -- then I don't see how someone can't fall under St. Paul's indictments of being worse than an infidel.  Scripture is sooo plain that He died to make us rich. 

When the headship of Mammon was crushed on the Cross, then all of the captives were set free by the Blood of His Covenant from the waterless pit.  No reason to ever be a Joseph in prison ever again, but time to come forth as Onesimus in the Book of Philemon, to where you're received as St. Paul Himself or as Christ Jesus Himself as Luke 6:40, Galatians 4:14, Philippians 3:17,  Philemon 1:17, 3John 1:6, and 3John 1:11 says we're supposed to receive those in whom His patience has had her perfect work so that we'll be perfect and entire, wanting nothing!  Lord Jesus came as Moses to destroy the Pharoah that was over our lives, the Devil, per Hebrews 2, and now we go forth as Joshua and take the land.  Lord Jesus couldn't enter into the promised land with us -- so He sent us His Spirit to do and to say all He's ever done and said thru us. 

All of us would be the better for rereading the book of Hebrews about this, that the same passage about "they've not known My ways, so I've sworn they will not enter into My rest" are applicable to us today, if we don't take heed to our spirits to not deal treacherously as the book of Malachi says, and so we don't make our words stout against God.  But it's time for all of us to consider our ways, as it says in Haggai, rather than His.  His ways always work and bring deliverance when we follow the exact pattern of the Son of God in our lives.  You can have everything that Jesus has, right now!  But we have to consider our ways and make sure our words aren't stout against Him.  What we've done to one of the least of these, His brethren, we've done to Him.  When the Scriptures have done their perfect work in our lives so that we're perfect and entire wanting nothing, then we'll each hear His graduation address: those who receive you, receive Me; those who receive Me, receive Him Who sent Me: if they've continued in My Words, they'll continue in yours also.  That's an awesome, awesome heavy responsibility, but only heavy when we think we must stay corruptible, rather than embracing the promise of the Written Word in 1Corinthians 15 that we can put on incorruption in this life.

As it's entering into the season of the Jewish calendar of the last trumpet -- actually it's this next weekend -- Have any of you put on incorruption yet?  What's corruptible MUST put on incorruption and what's mortal MUST put on immortality.  Have you put on incorruption yet?  You do know that death for a Christian is optional, right?  Although Lord Jesus does bodily come back to the earth according to Acts chapter 1, Philippians 3:20-21 is using the word "wait" in the exact same way that the book of Isaiah would use it, or the Psalms, or any other area of Scripture.  He's not coming out of heaven to conform your physical body to Himself, in Philippians 3:21 -- that's His High Priestly ministry at work over the confession lives of the believers.  What have you confessed this day that relates to your entering at the very very least into incorruption? 

John chapter 5 about the raising of the dead is at the proclamation of the Son of God -- we're doing that daily in sharing the Word 'cause all of the Books are open, right now, and we're going from this point of becoming the glorious manifestation of the sons of God in Romans 8 to the 2Peter 3 inauguration of a new planet as our faith genuinely takes dominion of our circumstances and not just of the multiplication of our own bread alone.  Next stage is entering into incorruption.  What have you done about entering into incorruption today? Hmmm...??  Gotta get there before you can chase immortality.  The Scriptures are plain that these are all just levels of faith we progress thru as the Written Word has greater and greater dominance over our thinking and our actions to where everything we're saying and everything we're doing is emphatically as Him according to 2Corinthians 10, Colossians 3:17, and 1John 2:5-6.

[Cat]

I'm saying his letters were written as a defense against what others were trying do to his established churches. Do you some how think Paul was writing specifically to you?


Php 2:20  For I have no one else of kindred spirit who will genuinely be concerned for your welfare. 21  For they all seek after their own interests, not those of Christ Jesus.

No, he wasn't writing to me specifically but to the early churches.  The problems they were having are very similar to today and no doubt all through the centuries, so his words of advice and commands are surely still applicable for us.  I can't think of anything he said that doesn't have significance for us today.  Can you, or am I misunderstanding you?  I believe a good portion of what he wrote about was specifically related to the coming destruction in 70 AD and therefore those parts are 'history'.  However, the same attitudes, actions of those early Christians that served them well leading up to the destruction in 70 AD, surely benefit us today.

[Molly]

The drama between the Pharisees and Jesus was neither accidental nor irrelevant.  It's not a matter of whether if they had asked a different question, he would have given a different answer.  It's a matter of what and who they represented and what and who he respresented.

That contrast is still extant in the world today.  When there is no longer that clash between darkness and light, we will have the kingdom of God on earth.

[martincisneros]

Then I'm sure if the original manuscripts were written in 'our' language, we'd have no problem understanding ALL of it.    :bgdance:

Ever seen a Driver's Handbook?  Ever been in traffic?  Is there a difference between monkey see it in the book and monkey do it on the road?  Or have you ever wanted a bunch of old produce to throw at other drivers?  Yet the translational issue's not there, 'cept to the degree that people do what they wanna do, and are going to do that anyway, until their thoughts are taken captive per 2Corinthians 10.  Christians don't even realize that when they signed on the dotted line for their driver's licence, it's no different than if they'd signed His Name 'cause of way too many verses like Colossians 3:17 that clearly indicate that absolutely everything we say and absolutely everything we do is either a reflection of Him, or a misrepresentation of Him.  As Jesus manifested the Name of the Father in John 17, the New Testament is constructed in such a way with it's Covenant language and gift of Holy Spirit to where we can't leave water on the sink counter at a public restroom, or paper towels on the floor in said restroom, without it reflecting upon how He would have treated their stuff.  Little is about translational issues and more about folks not realizing what spirit they're of.  Having better translations helps with the Joshua 1:8, Psalm 1, Psalm 15, Psalm 112, Proverbs 4, Luke 6:40, John 15:7, 1Corinthians 4:16, 1Corinthians 11:1, Galatians 2:20, Galatians 4:14, Galatians 4:19, Galatians 6:14, Galatians 6:17, Ephesians 1:23, Ephesians 5:1, Philippians 2:5, Philippians 3:17, Colossians 3:16, Philemon 1:6, Philemon 1:16, 1John 1:7, 1John 2:5-6, 1John 2:20, 1John 2:27, 2John 1:9, and 3John 1:11 paradigm.  But if the heart's not right, even the Concordant Literal is only going to get you so far.

[WhiteWings]

Yeah, WhiteWings you're right.  There was a core message that Jesus preached.  It was Isaiah 61 and Leviticus 25.

So can I conclude from that, that all the context I need is in those chapters?
So when I read for example "all" I only need to look in those chapthers for the defenition of that word?

[Molly]

...it's no different than if they'd signed His Name 'cause of way too many verses like Colossians 3:17 that clearly indicate that absolutely everything we say and absolutely everything we do is either a reflection of Him, or a misrepresentation of Him.

That gives one pause, doesn't it?

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.